Title Update Discussion

Games Other Halo
681

> > Agreed i mean if that screenshot isn’t showing what people think i don’t know. Pretty much overnight it’s on the front page of most downloaded and recomended.
>
> People agreeing that the game needs an update. I love Reach. I think it has the best halo multiplayer yet and I think it needs an update. That is already common knowledge. The question is what needs updating. And in response to bloom, if you shoot better, you will win. 100% of the time. Knowing when to pace, what rythym to use, and when to spam is a big part of learning each weapon in this game. As opposed to always spamming which was the case in the past. Yes, bloom needs a bit of adjusting, but it does not favor less skilled players. It adds a new layer to the skills each player will have to learn.

that is 100% false.

you will not win 100% of the time, even if you have the first shot, flawless cadence, and perfect aim against someone who just mashes the R trigger. you are right, however, it doesnt favor less skilled players. in fact, it doesnt favor ANYBODY with its current implementation. it should FORCE players to either pace their shots using cadence, or die every single time they try to spam. it really doesnt add much skill gap either. it adds more frustration and random factor that skill gap at the moment.

682

> > > Agreed i mean if that screenshot isn’t showing what people think i don’t know. Pretty much overnight it’s on the front page of most downloaded and recomended.
> >
> > People agreeing that the game needs an update. I love Reach. I think it has the best halo multiplayer yet and I think it needs an update. That is already common knowledge. The question is what needs updating. And in response to bloom, if you shoot better, you will win. 100% of the time. Knowing when to pace, what rythym to use, and when to spam is a big part of learning each weapon in this game. As opposed to always spamming which was the case in the past. Yes, bloom needs a bit of adjusting, but it does not favor less skilled players. It adds a new layer to the skills each player will have to learn.
>
> that is 100% false.
>
> you will not win 100% of the time, even if you have the first shot, flawless cadence, and perfect aim against someone who just mashes the R trigger. you are right, however, it doesnt favor less skilled players. in fact, it doesnt favor ANYBODY with its current implementation. it should FORCE players to either pace their shots using cadence, or die every single time they try to spam. it really doesnt add much skill gap either. it adds more frustration and random factor that skill gap at the moment.

No, it shouldn’t force anything. I accepted from the beginning that it was different. I spent much time and learned it thoroughly for each weapon. I now know when to spam and when not to, and I get 100% of the kills I should have gotten. If I did it wrong and the other guy did it right, then I die and vice versa. Spam up close, your shots will still hit. At range, slow it down a bit, perhaps pause after every second or third shot. It depends on each individual engagement. I do win 100% of the battles I should have won. I’m not the perfect player either. Sometimes I screw up. Sometimes the other guy was just better than me. It happens and I can accept that I still needed to improve on my cadence. Now I can kill consistently at all but the most extreme ranges with the DMR. So like I said, imperfect though it may be, the bloom system doesn’t even remotely break the game. Its just another variable in the equation. It used to just be track the target and shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger. Now its track the target and use an appropriate rhythm for the situation. I fail to see whats wrong with that. Perhaps recoil would be a better system for future titles on precise weapons, but the bloom system seems just fine to me.

683

> No, it shouldn’t force anything.

k. then give me one good reason why its ok for spamming to win against pacing. why should i ever lose when i pace my shots to a kid who takes absolutely no attempt at playing the game correctly, and just mashes his R trigger as fast as he can? making spamming win even 1% of the time doesnt add anything to the game of positive value. there isnt a single person that gets beat by spamming then proceeds to think ‘wow i really enjoyed that, i hope next time i try to play the game correctly i get beat by someone neglecting to play it correctly just like this time, it really makes it fun!’. most people look at spamming winning vs them and just see the game falling on its face. and rightly so, too. halo has never been like this before. you either shot better, or you died in 1v1 battles of the primary weapon spawn only. adding the ability for someone to completely neglect to use the gun as intended for success just adds frustration, and random chance where it both does not need to, and doesnt add anything either.

> I accepted from the beginning that it was different.

the problem isnt that its different. ive been a large supporter of bloom from the get-go. the thing is, it was implemented poorly, and it makes the game extremely un-fun for a lot of players as a result. every time i try to play halo reach i dont have fun. the reason i dont have fun is because the skill gap is incredibly low, and damn near every single core game mechanic in the game is laughable when compared to any other halo game. different is good, downgrading every mechanic is not.

> I do win 100% of the battles I should have won.

really? you must be oblivious as to whats happening then because people spam all the time, and spamming wins all the time too.

> So like I said, imperfect though it may be, the bloom system doesn’t even remotely break the game. Its just another variable in the equation.

for competitive players, and power gamers alike, thats exactly what it does; break the game. yes its another variable, but its another variable that doesnt need to be there in the first place because it doesnt add anything of value.

> It used to just be track the target and shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger. Now its track the target and use an appropriate rhythm for the situation.

false. it used to be everyone shot at the same pace, and the person with better aim won the battle. now it really doesnt matter how good you are at shooting because if someone is spamming, the victor of the battle is completely random, and anyones guess as to who will come out ahead. now its shoot your target with flawless aim and cadence, and WHOOPS hes spamming so he can still win even if you had the first shot, simply because he got lucky by abusing the games shoddy mechanics.

the reason you dont see a problem here is probably because you arent a competitive power gamer. for the competitive power gamers this type of stuff makes our blood boil. for everyone else they just shrug it off and are happy to play halo.

there literally isnt one single reason why its better for the game to work this way. not one. i certainly havent heard one, and ive been asking this question to nay-sayers for a LONG time now. heck, ive asked the same question to some people several times. there is a reason why they dodge the question over and over, its because it fundamentally destroys them logically.

if i shoot better, i should win 100% of the time. its as simple as that. thats FPS at its core, and when it doesnt work like that, the game becomes terrible by any competitive power gamers point of view.

684

For good reason, Reach does not have ANY incentive to keep playing.

Here are my top 3 reasons

  1. Slow boring and at times random gameplay.
  2. Non-existent ranking system (Cr is worthless)
  3. Awful maps that disgrace earlier Halo map design

I sucked -Yoink- in this game, and Reach gave me 8,000 Cr…

Its sad honestly, that a game like Halo Reach with such potential, has such idiotic and boring gameplay design…

To all the people who ask me why I’m still playing? Because its TOO EASY.

685

Don’t ignore community suggestions…

Don’t shun modding, embrace it and allow Halo to flourish.

Don’t charge 10$ for DLC and expect people to like you, make the map packs worth the money.

Give us a REAL map editor please.

Ban cheaters automatically

Customization up the -Yoink-, that makes Halo Reach look like a joke

Longer development time, 2 years development per Halo release is a bad BAAAAD idea.

686

Let’s play Halo 3 together.

687

Yes to all of these. Especially the map editor.

688

> Don’t ignore community suggestions…
>
> Don’t shun modding, embrace it and allow Halo to flourish.
>
> Don’t charge 10$ for DLC and expect people to like you, make the map packs worth the money.
>
> Give us a REAL map editor please.
>
> Ban cheaters automatically
>
> Customization up the Yoink!, that makes Halo Reach look like a joke
>
> Longer development time, 2 years development per Halo release is a bad BAAAAD idea.

I can pretty much cancel out all ur “points”

Bungie does not ignore the community, have you not been seeing all the updates? they are all community related first point canceled.

Modding…seriously? i dont think everyone wants to see modding being used agaisnt them in a game.

Bungie doesnt charge 10 for 3 maps microsft sets the price. and the map packs imo are definately worth the money.

haha a real map editor? this is the only fps with a map editor and its a damn good one. if you mean different forge maps than i agree.

Cheaters are already banned.

They cut allot of custamazation but added a bunch of new options.

Reach is a great game two years is ok.

689

> Don’t ignore community suggestions…
>
> Don’t shun modding, embrace it and allow Halo to flourish.
>
> Don’t charge 10$ for DLC and expect people to like you, make the map packs worth the money.
>
> Give us a REAL map editor please.
>
> Ban cheaters automatically
>
> Customization up the Yoink!, that makes Halo Reach look like a joke
>
> Longer development time, 2 years development per Halo release is a bad BAAAAD idea.

Leave Bungie alone! Haha, but yeah Bungie has been pretty good over the years with listening to the community on some things, but a little more freedom would be nice I guess.

I know that they could definitely do something special with Forge if they allowed more customization and allowed players to actually build whatever their hearts desired, and Custom games needs some attention ever since Halo 2 they havent been as popular. So yeah, I think those features have untapped potential that coould be brought out with the next Halo game.

As for longer releases, I agree I would rather have a very good polished game that reaches its potential, rather than a rushed game that is good but still has untapped potential. I always heard that with Bungie, they were rushed when making their Halo games, which maybe needs to change if they are not getting enough time to do all the things they want.

690

Im there, gamerId is same as here.

> Let’s play Halo 3 together.

691

Hehe, many people felt Halo 3 was even pushing as far as slower kill-times and equipment went and those issues were amplified tenfold in Reach when if anything they should of became non-issues.

I think for alot of Halo gamers, ever since Halo 3 the game has been heading in the opposite direction they wanted it to go in. Equipment introduced cheap and gimmicky kills, kill times went up significantly and are now detrimental to gameplay in Reach, weapons became shadows of their former selves and were nerfed for “Balance” issues that only a small portion of the community saw as a problem, and the game has been marginalized and doesnt really feel like a Halo game anymore. Halo was always about being unique, a team-game,a game thats excellent for competitve and casual gameplay, and a game that had certain foundations of Halo in common and Reach changed all of that. Just my opinion on the matter however.

692

http://www.gamespy.com/articles/116/1165614p1.html

Good article on mindsets and the future of gaming in the eyes of developers. Growth mindsets are the ones being catered to while Fixed mindsets feel left out.

I come from a time in gaming long before Halo was created. I personally don’t understand so many gamers don’t understand that the majority of the developers don’t adhere to EA’s or Activision’s structure of babysteps… if you step at all.

It’s ok, I call group hug. It’s all in the name of love for Halo is it not? Sure some views are more narrow but it’s all in the same field of view of love.

693

> http://www.gamespy.com/articles/116/1165614p1.html
>
> Good article on mindsets and the future of gaming in the eyes of developers. Growth mindsets are the ones being catered to while Fixed mindsets feel left out.
>
> I come from a time in gaming long before Halo was created. I personally don’t understand so many gamers don’t understand that the majority of the developers don’t adhere to EA’s or Activision’s structure of babysteps… if you step at all.
>
> It’s ok, I call group hug. It’s all in the name of love for Halo is it not? Sure some views are more narrow but it’s all in the same field of view of love.

<3

694

There’s no shame in switching between games for either party involved. Go have some fun whatever Halo you favour.

695

in Halo 3 you actually know what kills you 100% of the time and the equipment and weapons are reliable.

It is more solid. Even though Reach is pretty, it sucks when random nades and spamming and overpowered AA’s determin the outcome.

696

> Bungie does not ignore the community, have you not been seeing all the updates? they are all community related first point canceled.

bungie does ignore the community. sure bungie changes up playlists, and gametypes and whatever, adding kill barriers and what not, but they dont fix the core game mechanics that are broken.

a lot of the core game mechanics being broken are opinions, sure, but theres also a lot of things that arent based on opinions, like actual BUGS that are scattered thruout the game.

things like fixing the DMR arent even close to being debatable either. if bungie actually took a hard look at the DMR they would quickly see that

1.) they could fix it (or improve it at least)
2.) there is literally no reason why the person who shoots better shouldnt win 100% of the time in DMR-only battles. not one.
3.) when spamming wins, it doesnt benefit anyone. it doesnt even benefit the person who spams because it slaps them in the face a heckuva lot more than they actually get kills with it.
4.) adding random chance doesnt add ANYTHING to halo aside from wide-spread frustration.

maybe if someone could actually come up with a non-laughable reason why the DMR is better with the random luck factor, why its better to let the person who shoots worse win DMR-only battles, or give EVEN ONE example of a group (or person) who actually benefits from the DMR letting full auto spamming win in a DMR-only battle it would be even close to being debatable, but they cant.

the real fact of the matter is a title update wouldnt directly influence bungies cashflow (at least they dont know that it would, so they wouldnt take the risk) so they wont do it. if bungie actually cared about the community like you say they do, they would actually FIX THEIR BROKEN GAME.

clearly there are things that could be drastically improved.

-DMR algorithm at the top of the list
-take out no-bleed melees because they remove the viability of shooting some of the time, when there is literally no reason why its better that way.
-nerf the mini-nuke grenades.
-nerf armor lock so it isnt blatantly overpowered.
-fix the hundreds of bugs in the game.

those things would be at the top of my list of things to fix.

sorry, but bungie failed with reach IMO. they basically slapped every competitive halo player in the face with this game.

697

> http://www.gamespy.com/articles/116/1165614p1.html
>
> Good article on mindsets and the future of gaming in the eyes of developers. Growth mindsets are the ones being catered to while Fixed mindsets feel left out.
>
> I come from a time in gaming long before Halo was created. I personally don’t understand so many gamers don’t understand that the majority of the developers don’t adhere to EA’s or Activision’s structure of babysteps… if you step at all.
>
> It’s ok, I call group hug. It’s all in the name of love for Halo is it not? Sure some views are more narrow but it’s all in the same field of view of love.

i think its hilarious that you would bring up that article after defending reach so much. halo reach clearly was NOT catered to people with a growth mindset in ANY of the core game mechanics.

take these things for example:

myself, as a growth mindset person absolutely HATE the idea that someone who shoots better could win against them in a 1v1 DMR-only battle. sure i can look at other ways at approaching the situation, but when you remove the viability to 1v1 someone in a FPS game, it quickly becomes un-fun for me. when myself, as a growth mindset see people beat me with spamming, i dont like it in the least. i have tried to master their DMR, and evolve into a better shooter from halo 3 to halo reach, but because the gun is fundamentally broken, i cannot expect results that i can control out of 1v1 DMR battles, effectively removing a large portion of the ‘shooting’ fun out of first person SHOOTER. instead of “i worked on my DMR skills, and now i beat people all the time with my newly found cadence, and improved accuracy” its, “i worked on my DMR skills, improved my cadence and accuracy, and i still get beat by people making absolutely no attempt at playing the game correctly”.

myself, as a growth mindset person also hate the idea that grenades are nukes because, now, anyone can use them and they are also essentially impossible to dodge. growth mindset people look at the grenades from halo 3, and compare them to the ones in reach, and quickly realize that they have been downgraded to the kiddy version of halo. anyone can throw a grenade, and they arent even remotely challenging to land anymore. not only are they easy to use, they are basically impossible to dodge, meaning that people who are less skilled than them can now throw these mini nukes and you cant get away from them. this makes the people with the growth mindset think about all of the different places that they can go to, to help them avoid getting killed by mini nukes (which are few and far between).

myself, as a growth mindset person look at the no-bleed melee system and wonder why my shooting efforts arent rewarded 100% of the time to help me get ahead in battles involving at least 1 melee. all of a sudden some of the time it doesnt matter if they are shooting to get ahead because some times it isnt even viable. growth mindset people see this as having a melee system where if you do more damage than someone, then you both melee each other the person who did more damage (aka the person who did a better job at playing the game up until the melee) stays alive, while the other person dies; into a melee system that makes it so some of the time their shooting doesnt do anything and actually can be detrimental to them coming out ahead in that situation, and wonder that the heck the game developer was thinking. because of this melee system all of a sudden being broken, myself, as a growth mindset person have decided that melee battles should be avoided like the plague.

698

then you look at the armor abilities. growth mindset people look at armor lock and wonder what the hell the game developers were thinking. i outplay someone, and yet, because he has a certain armor ability that he can spawn with every time he dies, he can press 1 button for a +~80% survival rate provided that he stays kinda next to his team, and his teammates arent horrible. growth mindset people will soon adapt to seeing people go into armor lock by simply turning around, and getting the hell out of that situation because the armor lockers teammates will soon swarm in to kill him.

there are good things that can help growth mindset people keep playing, like evade for example. with evade, you can effectively make all of the games shoddy mechanics not matter as much simply because with the 2 evade rolls, you can often times out play someone even if they are spamming their DMR, you dont die to mini nukes nearly as much, and you can easily avoid melee battles too. the best part about evade is that it directly counters armor lock, the other ‘god tier’ armor ability. unfortunately, however, bungie has decided to start taking evade out of the playlists.

so, myself, as a growth mindset person have to all of a sudden count for the following changes from halo 1, 2, and 3, to halo reach:

1.) even if i shoot better, i am not guaranteed a kill in a 1v1 DMR-only battle
-so i avoid them because i cant control their outcome
2.) grenades are nukes that anyone can use with ease, and they are damn near impossible to dodge.
-i have to be constantly be aware of where people are to an INCREDIBLE extent because at any given moment they can throw a mini-nuke in my general vicinity that will either decimate my shields, or outright kill me.
-i have to stand in the most -Yoink!- spots that grenades cannot reach
-or be able to predict where the enemy spawns and move myself according to this so that where i am cannot be grenaded from where they are, but i can still get kills and help my team.
3.) no-bleed melees remove the viability of shooting -some- of the time in close combat situations
-i now have to avoid melee battles like the plague because they are so unintuitive.
-i now have to be aware of the EXACT distance that my shooting is not viable so that i dont try to shoot someones shields off then melee them, only to get double pummeled before i can get pull of the kill in that way.
4.) armor lock is blatantly overpowered.
-i now have to straight up RUN AWAY when someone armor locks because if i stick around to wait for it to wear off, their teammates will kill me.
5.) map control is non-existent in games with jet packs
-i now have to expect people not only transversing the typical pathways, they will also be coming at me from areas above me, areas that a person without jet pack could not have gotten to without me seeing them, etc.
-i also have to expect people to spawn then fly STRAIGHT UP effectively removing almost every single bit of cover and line of sight blockers.

thats the thing thy reaperMC. i would consider myself to be a competitive powergamer with the growth mindset.

in previous halo games i was always thinking about what i could do to come out ahead in different situations and not die. because of this, i became very good at doing just that. thru learning to aim better, learning grenade skills and trajectory, learning strategies for every gametype, learning to be able to judge where someone will end up if i see them running in the distance, learning how to use my motion tracker to wreak havoc on people trying to kill me alone by staying behind cover, learning trick jumps, learning how to ninja, and about a BILLION different things, i have become a VERY good halo player, to say the very least.

in halo reach, however, lots of these things simply DO NOT MATTER.

aim better? TOO BAD! SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM
better at throwing grenades? TOO BAD! MINI NUKE MINI NUKE MINI NUKE
better at close combat? TOO BAD! NO-BLEED DERP FESTS
know how to ninja people? TOO BAD! NO JUMP HEIGHT SO ITS IMPOSSIBLE
amazing at strafing? TOO BAD! SLOW MOVEMENTS SPEED
outplay someone? TOO BAD! ARMER LOCKZ

this game is a BLAM! joke for people like me. it sucks knowing whats going on, and having actually played halo for long enough to see how god-awful almost every core game mechanic in this game is.

699

> Hehe, many people felt Halo 3 was even pushing as far as slower kill-times and equipment went and those issues were amplified tenfold in Reach when if anything they should of became non-issues.
>
> I think for alot of Halo gamers, ever since Halo 3 the game has been heading in the opposite direction they wanted it to go in. Equipment introduced cheap and gimmicky kills, kill times went up significantly and are now detrimental to gameplay in Reach, weapons became shadows of their former selves and were nerfed for “Balance” issues that only a small portion of the community saw as a problem, and the game has been marginalized and doesnt really feel like a Halo game anymore. Halo was always about being unique, a team-game,a game thats excellent for competitve and casual gameplay, and a game that had certain foundations of Halo in common and Reach changed all of that. Just my opinion on the matter however.

I certainly agree, and in all honesty I don’t think Halo’s going to stray from this path it’s going down. I mean, CE had the quickest kill times of all (excluding button glitches in H2) and from there kill times have been getting longer and longer. Why, all of a sudden, would they revert back to relatively fast kill times? If Bungie didn’t do it, I doubt 343 will. We can hope, though.

This is an interesting article talking about Halo’s future. In there, Errera had this to say:

> “Success is less about memorizing where your enemies are and more about fighting out what sort of combat works for you,” Errera said. “Players often pick a weapon that meshes well with their gaming style, rather than picking up the one go-to weapon that everyone uses. Future Halo games will need to have this sort of flexibility.”

I find this quite odd, actually. In CE, the go-to-weapon was the pistol, excluding PoWs. Halo 2, it was the BR, and Halo 3 it was the BR again. Reach’s go-to-weapon is a bit blurred, but again, people usually rush for the DMR. I’ve always liked Halo because there was a go-to-weapon. A weapon that worked in all situations. If such a significant figure in the community as Claude Errera is saying this, then I fear for the future of Halo. Since 343 feel the need to try out new things I really believe we could be seeing some form of “custom classes” like those found in the CoD games.

If you look at the way Halo’s been going you’d see that it has indeed, though, rather slowly, been going the way of “customization.” Playing the game how you want to, rather then playing the game how the game demands to be played. I don’t particularly like this trend and I hope 343 breaks out of it. In my eyes, that’s what’s stopping CoD from being competitive. It’s just not competitive if everyone’s playing it how they want to play it. It would be like chess, but everyone has their own, different set of rules. Whilst that may be fun, it’s not fair competition. Perhaps, the people that want a go-to-weapon and competition are in the minority. Who knows.

> in Halo 3 you actually know what kills you 100% of the time and the equipment and weapons are reliable.
>
> It is more solid. Even though Reach is pretty, it sucks when random nades and spamming and overpowered AA’s determin the outcome.

I partially agree with this. I’m always getting angry at Reach because I don’t know if my opponent killed me by being a superior player, or simply because he got lucky with the bloom. Cheap tactics like double beat downs aren’t very comforting either, nor is armour lock or active-camo. Whilst playing Halo 3 I always blamed my yellow bar connection ;]
In customs with other fellow Australians, however, I knew who the better player was, always.

700

really though, if bungie added a bloom modifier to make the spread larger and reset faster or something, the only thing that would happen is A LOT more people would come back to check it out, and most of them would stay.