thats odd because when im on at my peak hours it goes to 140,000+. I really enjoy Reach and i dont think it needs fixing and i know theres alot of other people that think this too. So as long as we are still alive Reach will not die.
You have improperly quoted me. You paraphrased something I said and made it into a quote. That’s the equivalent of using a glitch without proper consent. Low and worse than unsportsman-like.
It is not that I have not answered anything or avoided answering, it is once again a situation of you not liking the answer and attempting to trap it in an Infinite Regression Loop. I will put it this way, I said what I said. If you do not understand what it means, you have to some learning to do. I have linked some pages already to help, but they are only a start and they are a summarisation of the ideas. To learn more, you yourself must want to learn more.
As far as myself not using the DMR. Thanks for not checking my stats :);
Invasion, a CQB heavy game-type shows I use the triangle and all of its corners in full force because of being in CQB, they can all be used… Back up a little, only Grenades and Guns can be used. Back up farther and only guns are viable…
Competitive, a very range-varying selection, shows I use the precision weapons with great frequency to stay at, well, range. Melees might be placed #2 but it is 1/5 the total of all the precision weapons added. But at the same time, you can see I pilot vehicles often and like to get up close and personal as Pointman and Guerrilla are my favourite 2 roles to be. Let’s just say my life expectancy is short when knowingly leading an assault or attempting to retrieve an enemy’s powerweapon… in their territory.
To finish, my Yomi thinking is very high 
What i find funny is this. If 343i put as much energy into fixing Reach as some people do defending it to thier dying breath
We may have the best halo ever made.
Plus all these problems occur alot more against high skilled players. If you think the mechanics are fine, you obviously haven’t played Halo enough.
Cough 289 Matchmaking games Cough
No Reaper, I qouted you well enough. We say that bloom is frustrating. You say its fine and that we do not have sufficient understanding of it to be angry about due to our own ignorance. You say we have no right to dislike this game because its different. I don’t dislike this game just because its different, I dislike it because its -Yoink-.
Not you.
Unless you are spamming 2 accounts.
And “quoting well enough” is not quoting. Stating one is paraphrasing is what one does when doing so. You can put said paraphrase in quotation marks, italicize or bold but you do not quote and then paraphrase. You do not say “and I quote;” and then paraphrase.
I think at this point the only way to bring back a decent number of people would be a combination of a title update AND DLC.
Think about it like this:
If DLC was to be released then it would get a lot of publicity and people would at least turn their heads to look at Reach. And then once they come back there is a nice title update to help convince players to stay instead of enjoying the DLC and then leaving for the same reasons they left before.
Of course, none of this looks likely to happen seeing how Reach has had very little support. Who is to blame for that is irrelevant.
But we have to realize that the population is not this low because of gameplay mechanics it is because of other games. Reach has more competition than Halo 1-3 ever did. But something needs to be done, not just for Reach, but getting players back to Reach would assist in sales of the Halo games to come.
Spending an hour (yes, an hour) searching for games in Arena is less than fun. Something needs to be done.
A person not knowing what they were doing whomped on others who didn’t know what they were doing? Yet the way you prove that is by comparing my 1.5 k/d to their 1.0 k/d.
That has you still claiming there is no skill-gap as a blanket 1.5k/d is just as bad as a 1.0k/d. Again no shame when a person with a binary mindset attempts to belittle me. I can recongnise but not feel.
> The thing people like me and coca mola hate is that someone like you can come up against one of us, spam your DMR and kill us.
I know. It’s funny as to why as I will soon explain.
> I’ve realised there is no point in me pacing my shots, so I spam just like the noobs do. It’s completely down to chance whether or not I get the kill I deserve.
You cannot rack up a greater than 2.0 with a weapon that is completely up to chance. If you claim you have learned to use the weapon in such a way that you get a 2.0, then there is no arguement. The system isn’t broken if you are using more than just the weapon to get your kills. You are in fact using experience and therefore skill.
Maybe this will help to curve your thinking back to reality. Spamming is like using a static reticle. And as long as your within a certain range, and as long as the reticle touches the enemy a certain way, the shots hit.
Just like the H3BR with its 4-shot static reticle within a certain range that allows a player to just touch the enemy to get the auto-aim to hit, the 5-shot DMR kills in the same amount of time with roughly the same amount assistance when spammed.
But unlike the H3BR, which as you get to a certain distance where the the spread combined with travel time and lessened or removed assists starts to cause a player to fire more than 4-shots regardless of skill to get a kill, the DMR bloom allows a player to pace their shots more accordingly as to not waste ammo in trying to score a kill. It rewards better shooting at long distance. That it works like an AR if rapid fired makes sense, not nonsense.
You know what I think the biggest impact is? There is less ability to paint a target with the reticle as you pull it around an enemy. Without the ability to correct your aim mid-shot to get even 1 or 2 of the 3 bullets to hit and instead having replaced with a hit or miss system, things feel more difficult. Ok, maybe two things again. Scoping in with the DMR does effect the spread, it doesn’t on the BR. Meaning if zoomed in with the DMR when a shot is made, it is in a tighter shot area than a no-scoped shot.
But as far as testing skill and ability to aim and shoot, the DMR is on par with the H3BR at least.
> A person not knowing what they were doing whomped on others who didn’t know what they were doing? Yet the way you prove that is by comparing my 1.5 k/d to their 1.0 k/d.
> That has you still claiming there is no skill-gap as a blanket 1.5k/d is just as bad as a 1.0k/d. Again no shame when a person with a binary mindset attempts to belittle me. I can recongnise but not feel.
>
>
>
> > The thing people like me and coca mola hate is that someone like you can come up against one of us, spam your DMR and kill us.
>
> I know. It’s funny as to why as I will soon explain.
>
>
>
> > I’ve realised there is no point in me pacing my shots, so I spam just like the noobs do. It’s completely down to chance whether or not I get the kill I deserve.
>
> You cannot rack up a greater than 2.0 with a weapon that is completely up to chance. If you claim you have learned to use the weapon in such a way that you get a 2.0, then there is no arguement. The system isn’t broken if you are using more than just the weapon to get your kills. You are in fact using experience and therefore skill.
>
>
> Maybe this will help to curve your thinking back to reality. Spamming is like using a static reticle. And as long as your within a certain range, and as long as the reticle touches the enemy a certain way, the shots hit.
> Just like the H3BR with its 4-shot static reticle within a certain range that allows a player to just touch the enemy to get the auto-aim to hit, the 5-shot DMR kills in the same amount of time with roughly the same amount assistance when spammed.
> But unlike the H3BR, which as you get to a certain distance where the the spread combined with travel time and lessened or removed assists starts to cause a player to fire more than 4-shots regardless of skill to get a kill, the DMR bloom allows a player to pace their shots more accordingly as to not waste ammo in trying to score a kill.
>
> You know what I think the biggest impact is? There is less ability to paint a target with the reticle as you pull it around an enemy. Without the ability to correct your aim mid-shot to get even 1 or 2 of the 3 bullets to hit and instead having replaced with a hit or miss system, things feel more difficult.
>
> But as far as testing skill and ability to aim and shoot, the DMR is on par with the H3BR at least.
Aiming and strafing skill gaps have been nerfed. Awareness, map control, and flanking are still present and lead to more kills. With the poor ranking system there are plenty of players that simply move around the maps oblivious to my presence and lead to numerous DMR kills. In addition the DMR allows me to pick off these players from far. My k/d has not changed from halo 3. My approach to this has. One cannot play aggressive in reach. In terms of aim and strafe good players learn that the playing field is near even between good players and bad alike. While I can easily take out a bad player 1v1, the time it takes to do so leaves me more damaged and vulnerable to my next encounter. Simply put I stay back and play elusive, camp, and -Yoink!- power weapons. This is nothing like the tactics of past, where all I needed was good aim and strafe to succeed. Halo reach is more like an RPG than a FPS ;). The skill gap decrease (in terms of aiming and strafing) is more obvious as you move up in skill.
Saying the Halo 3 BR takes the same amount of skill as the DMR is ludicrous. I can only assume you are basing this on YOUR personal experience or whatever scientific rhetoric you can make up.
When two players engage mid-range with the BR the better player will win. With the DMR…who knows?
>
first of all were you talking to me when you said
> You have improperly quoted me. You paraphrased something I said and made it into a quote. That’s the equivalent of using a glitch without proper consent. Low and worse than unsportsman-like.
? please go back to your post and bold text where you specifically talked about who spamming benefits, and why its better for the person who shoots better in a 1v1 DMR battle to not win 100% of the time. all you said was ‘everyone benefits’, which is complete BS. how, exactly, am i benefiting AT ALL, when i get the first shot, use flawless cadence, and perfect aim, then get beat by the kid mashing his R trigger? there isnt a single bit of benefit for me there. nor is there a single bit of benefit for that player either because this full auto spam tactic doesnt work the majority of the time, meaning the bad game mechanics SLAP HIM IN THE FACE over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, then he gets a kill, then it continues to slap him and over but he wont learn because he probably thinks ‘it works sometimes so i must be doing it right, hes probably just aiming better’.
lets make this really easy so you can maybe help us understand what you are thinking. i’ll keep it short, and do one point at a time.
TRUE OR FALSE
the better shooter in a DMR vs DMR only battle wins 100% of the time
Side note:
-full auto spamming IS NOT better shooting at ANY RANGE in DMR vs DMR battles.
> You cannot rack up a greater than 2.0 with a weapon that is completely up to chance. If you claim you have learned to use the weapon in such a way that you get a 2.0, then there is no arguement. The system isn’t broken if you are using more than just the weapon to get your kills. You are in fact using experience and therefore skill.
also, this is complete BS.
why? because you dont have to 1v1 DMR battle 100% of the time. most -good- players who have high KD ratios with the DMR have these because they dont do 1v1 DMR battles EVER because the outcome is COMPLETELY RANDOM and ISNT EVEN REMOTELY RELIABLE even if they are better with the weapon. yea, people have learned a way to rack up that 2.0 KD with the DMR, yanno what the way is? not engaging in 1v1 DMR battles. the system IS broken because you have to use more than just your weapon. when i spawn on hemorrhage, at mid range, see someone who is about to see and engage me in a 1v1 DMR battle that i MUST win in order to life (because if i run there is no cover, and i will die), then i get the first shot, then follow up with flawless cadence and perfect accuracy there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON THAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH for why this person should be able to just MASH THE R TRIGGER TO BEAT ME EVEN ONCE out of ONE THOUSAND TIMES.
using someones DMR KD as some sort of proof, or fact to support your argument that the DMR functions as intended is just laughable. anyone with a high DMR KD has this because they dont use the DMR as intended, instead they have to shoot at people who arent looking at them, and disengage when they get into 1v1 DMR battles because even if they shoot better, they arent guaranteed to win (which literally could not make any less sense).
Nearly beautifully put PhArm in half of your first paragraph. Now if you believe those words yet still feel Reach faulters for being different knowing the following quote from Bungie, then that is probably your answer to why the chances of a TU or radical change is very, very unlikely.
> We should start off by making it very clear that Halo: Reach is not Halo 3. There are some distinct and fundamental differences that you’ll definitely need to account for, both straight out of the gate and over the long haul. These are differences you shouldn’t expect to see changed. They are, as we say, by design.
http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=BWU_050710
And honestly, that is my point. Wanting things different for the next Halo is ok. But claiming a system is broken and then proceeding to describe how it works like it’s intended won’t get things changed. Demanding things certainly won’t get things changed. And complaining incorrectly worsens the problem. Telling people they suck for not thinking like you certainly won’t want them to play like you either.
I’m all for fixing broken things or changing things again, but not out of fear or fallacy. That the framerate stutters the way it does during MP is a legit complaint. Complaining that Grenades or Melee are too viable at close-range is not legit as those are the ranges they are meant to be used. They are also suppose to be part of a trifecta that may not be equilateral, but it certainly isn’t suppose to be looking like the Eiffel Tower with guns at the peak.
> I’m all for fixing broken things or changing things again, but not out of fear or fallacy. That the framerate stutters the way it does during MP is a legit complaint. Complaining that Grenades or Melee are too viable at close-range is not legit as those are the ranges they are meant to be used. They are also suppose to be part of a trifecta that may not be equilateral, but it certainly isn’t suppose to be looking like the Eiffel Tower with guns at the peak.
its not that grenades and melees are ‘too viable’ its that shooting ISNT viable 100% of the time, when clearly it should be.
were playing a first person shooter. did you forget that? you say its not supposed to be the eiffel tower with guns at the peak, but lets to find some facts shall we? you act like this game isnt like this because its not supposed to be and yet, in a quick search of your halocharts stats we find that your weapon stats for the playlist that you play most frequently (invasion) are as follows:
GUNS: 2280 (61.78%)
GRENADES: 644 (17.45%)
MELEES (sword / hammer included): 766 (20.75%)
hows that for eiffel tower? LOL
oh, and also, you have more melee kills than DMR kills. you also have more melee kills than needle rifle kills. just thought i’d throw that out there.
Are you really trying to prove how much you can’t read a stats page?
In Invasion, you get to spawn as an Elite or Spartan almost half the time. You especially do in Invasion-Invasion. Of course my DMR and NR kills will be less than my Melee. I always get to Melee. I get to spawn with a DMR half the time, NR the other half.
As far as my stats showing an Eiffel Tower of usage, that is because as said, it’s a CQB heavy playlist. But the games are not exclusively CQB played. My encounters are not exclusively in CQB or in ranges where Melee or Grenades are a viable option.
And though I was going to ignore this, I will have point it out. You literally said I was wrong and then paraphrased what I said to make it “correct.”
I said:
> You cannot rack up a greater than 2.0 with a weapon that is completely up to chance. If you claim you have learned to use the weapon in such a way that you get a 2.0, then there is no arguement. The system isn’t broken if you are using more than just the weapon to get your kills. You are in fact using experience and therefore skill.
Your rebuttal was
> anyone with a high DMR KD has this because they dont use the DMR as intended, instead they have to shoot at people who arent looking at them, and disengage when they get into 1v1 DMR battles because even if they shoot better, they arent guaranteed to win (which literally could not make any less sense).
But you did forget to add, use another weapon, melee or grenades as part of your attempted correction.
It should read
“anyone with a high DMR KD has this because they use the DMR as intended. They shoot at targets who arent looking at them, use teammates, grenades, melees, cover, AAs and any other usable tactic or they disengage when they get into 1v1 DMR battles because even if they shoot better, they arent guaranteed to win. They have to do something more than just use the DMR to get most/all of their kills.”
> Are you really trying to prove how much you can’t read a stats page?
>
> In Invasion, you get to spawn as an Elite or Spartan almost half the time. You especially do in Invasion-Invasion. Of course my DMR and NR kills will be less than my Melee. I always get to Melee. I get to spawn with a DMR half the time, NR the other half.
>
> As far as my stats showing an Eiffel Tower of usage, that is because as said, it’s a CQB heavy playlist. But the games are not exclusively CQB played. My encounters are not exclusively in CQB or in ranges where Melee or Grenades are a viable option.
>
> And though I was going to ignore this, I will have point it out. You literally said I was wrong and then paraphrased what I said to make it “correct.”
>
> I said:
>
>
> > You cannot rack up a greater than 2.0 with a weapon that is completely up to chance. If you claim you have learned to use the weapon in such a way that you get a 2.0, then there is no arguement. The system isn’t broken if you are using more than just the weapon to get your kills. You are in fact using experience and therefore skill.
>
> Your rebuttal was
>
>
> > anyone with a high DMR KD has this because they dont use the DMR as intended, instead they have to shoot at people who arent looking at them, and disengage when they get into 1v1 DMR battles because even if they shoot better, they arent guaranteed to win (which literally could not make any less sense).
>
> But you did forget to add, use another weapon, melee or grenades as part of your attempted correction.
>
> It should read
> “anyone with a high DMR KD has this because they use the DMR as intended. They shoot at targets who arent looking at them, use teammates, grenades, melees, cover, AAs and any other usable tactic or they disengage when they get into 1v1 DMR battles because even if they shoot better, they arent guaranteed to win. They have to do something more than just use the DMR to get most/all of their kills.”
the point was, KD for the DMR is a terrible example for proving anything, or justifying anything. thanks for correcting my rebuttal more to destroy yours better tho lol.
onward, please answer this question. i wont talk about anything else in this post so maybe we can stay on topic and work thru our misunderstandings.
TRUE OR FALSE
the better shooter (for this encounter) in a DMR vs DMR only battle wins 100% of the time
Side note:
-full auto spamming IS NOT better shooting at ANY RANGE in DMR vs DMR battles.
It’s both true and false.
It’s false that the better shot will win 100% of the time in a 1vs1 DMR battle as no one is perfect.
It’s true that in each and every 1vs1 DMR only battle, the better shot won.
And I was able to pull out a big contradiction from 1 paragraph but I could not find a point in of any of the 2.
I also believe your side not is error. Not only are you trying to convince me that spamming is the proper way to shoot at most ranges, there is a distance that is quite wide where melees are not an option and a full bloom covers 100% of the enemy’s head. You again contradict yourself but that is besides the point of there being a range where indeed spamming is not just the best option, it’s like, the only option.
> It’s both true and false.
> It’s false that the better shot will win 100% of the time in a 1vs1 DMR battle as no one is perfect.
well, i edited my post, your reply was before that. to clarify, im talking about that individual encounter. you are right here. the person with the most shooting skill doesnt win every time, but the person who shoots better SHOULD.
> It’s true that in each and every 1vs1 DMR only battle, the better shot won.
no. the better shot doesnt win 100% of the time in halo reach. apparently i should have done this from the start because it is this fundamental misunderstanding that makes us run in circles all day.
you are not shooting better if you are full auto spamming and getting lucky to beat someone with flawless cadence and flawless aim, thats literally one of the most ludicrous and laughable things i have ever heard on the forum, to date.
> Not only are you trying to convince me that spamming is the proper way to shoot at most ranges, there is a distance that is quite wide where melees are not an option and a full bloom covers 100% of the enemy’s head. You again contradict yourself but that is besides the point of there being a range where indeed spamming is not just the best option, it’s like, the only option.
again, no. the thing i am trying to convince you is
in every single halo game aside from halo reach, the person who shot better won the encounter if it was gun vs gun with no outside factors. spamming IS the best way to shoot for a lot of ranges (up until less than ~50% of the reticule isnt covering the spartan) up until the FOURTH HIT, then you headshot. because of this, every battle boils down to (if both players are using the gun in this optimal manner) whichever player gets luckier and lands 4 shots first if they hit the headshot afterwards.
and sure, spamming is the only option, sometimes, but in the encounters where it is are battles where they are trying to melee you. if they arent trying to melee you, full auto spamming will not be optimal, PERIOD. the thing about these encounters is:
1.) you can just melee them when they melee you
2.) sometimes it isnt even viable to try to shoot to come out ahead because of no-bleed melees.
before, in halo, there wasnt any sort of special thinking to when you see someone try to jump out and shoot -> melee you. you shot them back, and if you thought you did more damage than they did by shooting better, you engaged in the melee (by stopping your backpedaling) to beat them. if they did more damage than you, you continue to backpedal to hopefully use other things like a grenade, etc. to get them to stop their chase so you could get away or come out ahead by changing the situation up.
in halo reach, however, if someone sprints at you hoping to double melee, there really isnt much you can do if you have sprint also. if you turn around to sprint away, you will get assassinated because they are running at full speed. if you shoot at them, you have to watch their shields flicker for every single full auto spammed shot because if you miss EVEN ONE, the viability of shooting to get out ahead basically goes out the window, in which case you have to stop shooting (because if you are shooting you arent meleeing at the right time, and shooting to pop their shields simply doesnt work a lot of the time) so you can melee them when they melee you. after which, you jump backwards and headshot them. this way is 100x more convoluted than the halo 3 melee system was.
shooting to come out ahead, or gain an advantage 100% of the time? naw that makes way too much sense.
as for me, i dont even try to shoot to get ahead. i have found that i die more if i try to play that way, so i dont even do it. i just wait till the idiot gets in melee range, then i melee him, jump backwards, then headshot him.
so, lets recap. no, you are not shooting better by spamming to win vs someone who is pacing using cadence. you will not win more % of the time if you try to spam and get lucky than you would if you were to simply try to use the cadence yourself and out shoot them. this being said,
> why is it BETTER (please, for the love of all things halo say ‘IT IS BETTER BECAUSE’ in your response) for halo to function as the person who shoots better in the encounter doesnt win 100% of the time over a system where the person who shoots better wins 100% of the time?
bloom could add that depth (and skill) that we are looking for, to help aid in close combat battles, while still being good over range without it adding a random factor to the game. there isnt a single good reason for this added random factor, or luck factor, or whatever you want to call it. its not the % chance that a spammer beats a pacer, its the % chance that the game EPIC FAILS.
> also, please name 1 group of people who benefit from spamming winning vs pacing. do pros benefit from this? do noobs benefit from this? do average kids benefit from this?
nope, nope, and nope. i could really see your arguments that bloom is fine in its implementation holding even the slightest bit of weight if you could answer these 2 questions logically, but the fact of the matter is, you cant, so your argument doesnt hold any weight.
Bungie has goo dreasons to ignore us- I hope 343 doesn’t try to “fix” anything and leave it as is. Reach aint perfect but most of our propositions are just bad.
> Bungie has goo dreasons to ignore us- I hope 343 doesn’t try to “fix” anything and leave it as is. Reach aint perfect but most of our propositions are just bad.
what propositions are you talking about?
my propositions are pretty wildly accepted
-no mini nuke grenades
-remove no-bleed because its unintuitive
and
-make the person who shoots better win 100% of the time in DMR vs DMR battles (spamming wins 0%)
those are the main ones, but heres some more:
-armor lock duration reduced to 2 seconds
-increase in evade cooldown when used twice, decrease in cooldown when used once (so if you use it only once it cools down faster)
-buff hologram so its not terrible
-move the radar jamming to a random location around the invisible person so you cant tell exactly where the invisible person is when you see a jammed radar
-nerf the damage taken before bubble pops
-make it so sprint stops when you take damage from an enemy for ~2.5 seconds so you cant just run away from getting outplayed
-make the max height on jet pack MAYBE 10 feet above the map (or just remove it entirely since it has no place in even slightly competitive games and playlists)
-buff the assault rifle damage a little bit
the game hasnt been handed over yet. its still in the process. go look at the current weekly update on bungie.net for proof.
when 343 studios gets the game, hopefully they will fix it. cross your fingers everyone!
> Unless you are spamming 2 accounts.
>
> And “quoting well enough” is not quoting. Stating one is paraphrasing is what one does when doing so. You can put said paraphrase in quotation marks, italicize or bold but you do not quote and then paraphrase. You do not say “and I quote;” and then paraphrase.
Why would I care about any of this?