Title Update Discussion

Games Other Halo
581

First off, you have drawn the wrong conclusion from the video as has the author of the video.

It’s not that the hitbox is as large as it is painted by him, it’s that when the reticle is at rest (not blooming), any part of the blooming reticle itself that does touch the head hitbox will register a hit.
The reason the one angle didn’t work was because at that particular angle, the blooming reticle covered at least 2 hitbox areas and so was split amongst them for landing a shot. You’ll notice you can get a better headshot from the opposite side it’s easier to get an assassination from?

I have a video for you I just made. I sorta just spent my 5 minutes about 2 hrs ago so I can’t render it, you’ll have to download it.
http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=122349096
If someone can render, I thank you. If not, no worries, I will in a month. It’s a video I made of Halo3 showing nearly the exact same thing as can be show in Reach but with the BR. Is Halo3 really that unacceptable too? So far Halo3 has failed every test Reach must pass to be considered a competitive game. And Halo3 is an upgraded Halo2…

Actually I think you have to download it so you can activate the reticle. .
And have you seen the recent top 10? Anoj shows us a guy who no-scopes with the Sniper for 3 kills. At that range, it’s still all dome FTW. And he can show you clips of it happening in Halo3 too.

582

Now I have a new video. http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=17199963&player=thy%20ReaperMC

It starts off with me using the Sniper rifle to show how large the head hitbox is. You’ll notice that the reticle needs to touch the head to actually hit the head. Just a feather touch and you get the shot. Even through the gun-side shoulder that will cause a DMR to miss the head but still connect.

I then move onto the DMR. I won’t commentary, I will just tell you my conclusions The DMR functions nearly exactly the same way as the Halo3 BR at mid-range and closer. The reticle bloom may cause you to miss your shots about as often as the BR’s spread will cause you to fire another burst or 2 more than the needed 4. That is to say, at up until true mid of mid-range, the DMR will not likely miss the target so long as the reticle is on target. And since the DMR fires 5 shots in the same time the BR expels 4-bursts, which is 12 bullets fire in the same time as 5 (I can link video), a player doesn’t have to waste ammo when engaged in long-range battles as the fully rested bloom will reward a true shot. At midrange and closer, the DMR is just as likely to miss a shot as the BR if the DMR is fully spammed. So the DMR is a more efficient BR. It actually has more power than I believed.

Meaning, the DMR, like the Halo3 BR, requires the user to put themselves in a position where the spread is no longer a factor in the fight or at least minimalised. Regardless of tactics used, the user must increase their chances of a win through skill, not just the use of a weapon.

Thank you, you’ve helped me to understand a great deal by finally getting me motivated.

583

The Dont Miss Rifle is more efficient because it is too easy to use. It puts everyone on the same skill level. Br actually allowed people to be better.

584

So how’s CoD coming along? Woops, I meant Halo: Reach.

585

> The DMR functions nearly exactly the same way as the Halo3 BR at mid-range and closer.

yea, going from every encounter being, the person who shoots better wins, to being completely random in their outcome, thats almost exactly the same!

> The reticle bloom may cause you to miss your shots about as often as the BR’s spread will cause you to fire another burst or 2 more than the needed 4.

except, bloom throttles players attempting to play the game correctly, without hurting players who disregard it; while BR spread is static to all players (cept maybe the host).

> That is to say, at up until true mid of mid-range, the DMR will not likely miss the target so long as the reticle is on target. And since the DMR fires 5 shots in the same time the BR expels 4-bursts, which is 12 bullets fire in the same time as 5 (I can link video), a player doesn’t have to waste ammo when engaged in long-range battles as the fully rested bloom will reward a true shot.

doesnt matter how many bullets you have when you get the first shot, then follow up with flawless cadence, and perfect accuracy, just to get beat by the kid mashing the R trigger, does it?

> At midrange and closer, the DMR is just as likely to miss a shot as the BR if the DMR is fully spammed.

false. the DMR at mid - close range has damn near every single battle with a random victor, regardless of who the better technical shooter is. with the BR, the person who shoots better, wins. not even remotely close to being similar here.

> It actually has more power than I believed.

thats for sure. its a better ‘all you need’ gun than the BR ever was IMO (except for DMR vs DMR battles, those are sporadic and random).

> Meaning, the DMR, like the Halo3 BR, requires the user to put themselves in a position where the spread is no longer a factor in the fight or at least minimalised.

spread wasnt a factor because it didnt effect people differently. everyone had spread. the DMR, on the other hand, has people who try to pace and use the gun correctly, and also has people who disregard ‘bloom’ and just full auto machine gun their precision rifle for wild success at damn near every range even tho they arent even trying to use the gun correctly

> Regardless of tactics used, the user must increase their chances of a win through skill, not just the use of a weapon.

yep, cept, it used to be you could use your weapon to 1v1 someone and have the victor be whomever shot better. you could also get the first shot, then not choke, to come out ahead. neither is the case in halo reach, however, so you have to use other -Yoink!- tactics to get around the failed mechanics (like using other failed mechanics like mini nuke grenades!)

> Thank you, you’ve helped me to understand a great deal by finally getting me motivated.

oh? you finally understand that there is literally no reason for the DMR to have people who shoot worse win battles even 1% of the time? good for you!

586

> The Dont Miss Rifle is more efficient because it is too easy to use. It puts everyone on the same skill level. Br actually allowed people to be better.

or, if you are bad, just spam and win 24% of the time, and WAY MORE % if they miss even once!

or if you wanna be super pro, only spam till you hit 4 shots, then headshot them, this is actually optimal the vast majority of range encounters in halo reach team slayer maps!

587

every week the population keeps getting a bit lower and barely hovers above 100,000 at peak hours during the week yet there still is no mention of fixs. how is this game going to work when no one can find games, because as of now once gears of wars 3 and the next cod and bf3 come out it will be impossible to find games in some playlists.

please get your act together I only play halo and despise other shooter games and i fear halos future looks bleak unless we can adress some real core issues that majority have with reach. its been stated a million times what core gameplay mechanics need to come back so im not going to repeat it. But please do something quick because a lot of the playlists is allready unbearable to find games and the game is not even at its year mark.

588

Yes its true that when new game titles come out gamers switch to them for a while but they come back. Now about this whole “it takes forever to find a game” thing, it really isn’t that true that it takes forever to find a game, maybe your to strict on the search requirments. I usually find a game within the first minute of searching.

589

I never changed the restrictions to mine, at the most it ever takes is like a minute but, even if their is like 2000 people in big team battle it may just add like a 5-10 seconds more. But, yes I agree the population will come back at least the ones that are truly halo fans.

590

> Yes its true that when new game titles come out gamers switch to them for a while but they come back. Now about this whole “it takes forever to find a game” thing, it really isn’t that true that it takes forever to find a game, maybe your to strict on the search requirments. I usually find a game within the first minute of searching.

He said “when” we can’t find games. As is when the population drops we won’t be able to find games. Gamers do switch over to other games for a couple weeks or so then come back to Halo. I fear the only people that will be left on Reach are boosters and try hards. Everyone trying to get them 20,000,000 cR…

Reach isn’t like the other Halo games. Their are many people that still play that are patiently waiting for some sort of update. They may just give up and head to another game.

591

> > Yes its true that when new game titles come out gamers switch to them for a while but they come back. Now about this whole “it takes forever to find a game” thing, it really isn’t that true that it takes forever to find a game, maybe your to strict on the search requirments. I usually find a game within the first minute of searching.
>
> He said “when” we can’t find games. As is when the population drops we won’t be able to find games. Gamers do switch over to other games for a couple weeks or so then come back to Halo. I fear the only people that will be left on Reach are boosters and try hards. Everyone trying to get them 20,000,000 cR…
>
> Reach isn’t like the other Halo games. Their are many people that still play that are patiently waiting for some sort of update. They may just give up and head to another game.

“When” is When the next Halo reach is released boosters don’t stay around a game when no one is around as there is then no one for them to try and show off to. Just like any other game when a sequel comes out most move onto it, and yes like this community we do still go back to the older versions. Try placing Halo 3 into your disc tray once and a while. As for the other Halo games just grab some friends as the servers are no longer.

592

> every week the population keeps getting a bit lower and barely hovers above 100,000 at peak hours during the week yet there still is no mention of fixs. how is this game going to work when no one can find games, because as of now once gears of wars 3 and the next cod and bf3 come out it will be impossible to find games in some playlists.
>
> please get your act together I only play halo and despise other shooter games and i fear halos future looks bleak unless we can adress some real core issues that majority have with reach. its been stated a million times what core gameplay mechanics need to come back so im not going to repeat it. But please do something quick because a lot of the playlists is allready unbearable to find games and the game is not even at its year mark.

Dont blame 343, they are still not the offical care takers of Halo Reach yet. The transition is still going on. Once its over i promise that 343 will let us know what is going on. Be patient. Or if not, wait for 343’s big announcement at E3 next month.

593

> oh? you finally understand that there is literally no reason for the DMR to have people who shoot worse win battles even 1% of the time? good for you!
> or, if you are bad, just spam and win 24% of the time, and WAY MORE % if they miss even once!

Well as I now see it, the DMR’s reticle timing has been tweaked to simulate the Halo3 BR’s spread pattern across the ranges. The DMR up until where short and mid-range mix is 99% likely to hit due to the reticle turning red at that range and engaging autoaim (1% on connection).
Within red-retice range, there is a window were if both players engage each other at nearly the same time and both hit each other with equal hits within a relative window, both players will die.
Just there the DMR looses red-reticle, that is where the conservation of ammo comes in and pacing your shots is rewarded. As opposed to the Halo3 BR which have you waste bullets at that same range to equivalent kill times from both the DMR and BR. The DMR when not showing red will only land shots inside the bloom (as opposed to if it was red, the edge of any reticle will seemingly land a hit, like the Halo3 BR).
It’s only when the reticle is no longer red that the extra-skill required to wield either the DMR or BR comes into play where aiming and pacing is concerned.

But this is a Halo game. Halo was always the trifecta. It is now a tetrahedron in certain gametypes. The thing about a trifecta is that for Grenades and Melees to be considered as effective as the Guns portion, the 2 other corners must be on par with the powerweapons of Guns corner. Grenades and Melees should be viable options when in a Halo fight.

But this is Halo: Reach and as said it is a tetrahedron in most playlists instead of a triangle or 2 connecting dots. AAs can both hinder or enhance a portion of the triangle itself. AAs effect the triangle like a stunt-kite operator performing their moves.

And because this is Halo and all options available to a person should be nearly equal in viability across the board (unless it’s SWAT or something like that), to me, if a person is only willing to judge or engage others with 1/3 of a triangle or 1/4 of a tetrahedron, then that person is lacking in overall skill and/or knowledge. In this case it is knowledge as there is no way a person can get K/Ds over 2.5 with the DMR and Pistol (and hold a 1.89 overall) with the 24% chance of loosing being the deciding factor in their battles. If the DMR made things truly random, a player couldn’t achieve a nice K/D while using it versus others if there wasn’t a skill-gap in the first place.

I expect a skilled FPS player to not only know the odds of most, if not every situation, but I also expect them to know how to either increase or decrease the odds of said situations. Much so as opposed to throwing up one’s arms and crying “no joy” because of an unwillingness to use the other dimensions of the triangle or tetrahedron. If a player does indeed use most of or all of their options available and still loose, obviously the other player isn’t skill-less if they won or tied, nor was the DMR the only factor in the fight.

Don’t accuse the a player who either tied or beat another player in a straight up DMR fight of being a lesser skilled player who got lucky (regardless of each other’s shot pacing). If someone looses to another person using more of the triangle or tetra than than the other did, the person who used more is obviously skilled too. Maybe not as skilled in the shooting category. At this point it’s moot. A person using all of the options available is winning (as said, if consented, glitches are ok as they are an option to all), and that is skill. Using 1 weapon because it takes the most skill to use is not the same as using skill to win. Restricting others to use 1 weapon is a means to create symmetrical combat, not competitive. They two are completely different.

And this leads me back to way back a few pages. I don’t care what Halo you like most. Don’t accuse Reach of being broken as an excuse for why you don’t like it. Reach is very balanced, very fair and Yomi-heavy. Reach is the closest to vision meets execution a Halo has ever seen. Honestly, it is the Halo that was envisioned over 10 years ago. And unlike the past Halos, the undesired mechanics are far and few between.
It’s ok to love other Halos, but don’t think it has to do with removing skill, not caring for the community or because the formula was radically changed. I will point out those facts are indeed opinions based in either ignorance or fear.

594

>

i’d like to pose 2 questions to you, before we get started. its the same questions ive asked you numerous times, the same questions that you dodge every time. maybe this time you will actually answer it.

why is it better for the technical shooter to not win 100% of the time in DMR vs DMR only battles?

and

who benefits from the times when spamming beats pacing?

> But this is a Halo game. Halo was always the trifecta. It is now a tetrahedron in certain gametypes. The thing about a trifecta is that for Grenades and Melees to be considered as effective as the Guns portion, the 2 other corners must be on par with the powerweapons of Guns corner. Grenades and Melees should be viable options when in a Halo fight.

i find it hilarious that you say that ‘grenades and melees should be viable options when in a halo fight’, but you think its ok, when it comes to no-bleed melees, to lose the viability of shooting some of the time. yes, halo has always been a triangle of shooting, grenades, and melees. the difference, however, is that its a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER, and it always has been. grenades, nor melees, nor armor abilities, were ever supposed to be ‘on par’ with shooting, nor will they ever be. you dont see people getting the same amount of grenade kills and melee kills and shooting kills every game. you see shooting getting most of the kills for most people (because its a first person shooter) unless you are observing the stats of someone who is likely not doing very well in the game (getting only melee and grenade kills because they are SIMPLE to get). grenades and melees have always been tools to aid in players getting kills in halo games. in halo reach, however, they are literally all you need to beat the average halo player. grenades used to be something you used to help get kills when you could predict movements to help land them. people didnt just throw grenades because it didnt work in other halo games unless you managed to stick the person you were throwing them at. in halo reach, however, the grenades are basically INCREDIBLE, so you can just chuck grenades and not even worry about shooting your ‘random rifle’. not only are grenades far better than every single non power weapon, they are literally ALL YOU NEED to get kills almost EVERY TIME. the halo triangle has been stomped on, then dumped on, then buried in sand, then thrown in a slot machine. grenades and melees were always viable tools to help aid in players getting kills, now they completely overpower shooting a lot of the time. pretty sad that we have gone from having a game where the person who shoots better wins gun vs gun encounters, to a game that that simple fundamental mechanic is broken so you have to use other means (like the other botched mechanics).

i really miss halo where shooting skill mattered even a little bit in the primary weapon spawn for COMPETITIVE games. i also miss halo where grenades took some semblance of skill to use. and, lastly, i miss close combat battles where the person who worked harder to get his kill would get the kill.

also, armor abilities were a cool idea to add the fourth element to the triangle of halo. unfortunately for all of us they were also badly implemented.

instead of armor abilities that function as they should, like armor lock lasting ~2 seconds to block that 1 grenade, or block that 1 melee, or block that 1 rocket, we have armor lock that lasts SIX SECONDS. because armor lock lasts SIX SECONDS you can literally stay in the general vicinity of your team (as long as they arent horrible), and have armor lock be a +80% survival rate button for almost every single encounter where you get outplayed. armor lock is BLATANTLY OVERPOWERED by any person standpoint who has even the smallest semblance of what balance is.

instead of invisibility being something used for players to sneak around, it basically says “i’ll be right in the center of this radar jamming”, and good players will know exactly where you are by simple forethought. it, too, does not work as intended.

instead of sprint being something that helps speed up gameplay, you get drawn out battles and encounters where the person who gets outplayed simply runs away to the safety of his corner / choke point where he can easily leave a mini nuke behind him to kill even the most SLIGHTLY damaged player. what is it, like… 2 DMR bullets and a grenade to kill someone in every playlist? lol.

instead of bubble being something that is balanced, that provides a limited amount of cover, you get bubble where if someone has the objective, they can just sit in it while you unload clip, upon clip, upon clip, upon clip into it before it explodes. pretty sweet too, considering they can just wait till you reload, then drop the objective to come out and kill you. that, or just find 4 grenades and keep them in your inventory JUST IN CASE so you can throw every single one of them to pop the bubble, because APPARENTLY mini nukes dont do enough damage to pop a bubble. oh, and dont die because then that noob has 4 mini nukes to use to get 4 kills with ease.

then we have jet pack, that completely and utterly destroys any semblance of the concept of ‘map control’ on damn near every single map in halo reach. not only should this armor ability not be in any even remotely non-laughable playlist, it probably shouldnt be in matchmaking at all. the only reason its in matchmaking is because, oh yea, this game was created for casual kids who have no idea whats going on in the first place.

then we have evade, the god of them all. evade isnt even remotely close to being balanced when compared to the other armor abilities. thankfully, however, evade is the ONE THING that ties all of the games terrible mechanics together to make it even a little bit playable.

and hologram, the worst, most useless armor ability ever devised. there isnt a single good player who falls for this more than MAYBE once or twice during the course of a game. this armor ability isnt worth using, ever, because all of the other armor abilities are infinitely better.

armor abilities COULD have added to the game, unfortunately they all just take away from what halo was doing right, and add more nonsense and badly implemented things into the sandbox.

595

> And because this is Halo and all options available to a person should be nearly equal in viability across the board (unless it’s SWAT or something like that), to me, if a person is only willing to judge or engage others with 1/3 of a triangle or 1/4 of a tetrahedron, then that person is lacking in overall skill and/or knowledge.

first of all grenades and melees shouldnt be viable 100% of the time, shooting should. you should always be able to shoot to gain an advantage, thats halo at its core.

its not that i cant use all parts of the halo triangle, or square, its that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE PARTS IS BROKEN, and when you put them together IT DOESNT FIX THEM, YOU GET A TRASHY GAME. also, please refrain from taking shots at my skill and knowledge, unless you want to actually 1v1 me. that would be pretty fun, actually. you down? i’ll make sure to use nothing but full auto spam when i shoot, too. i’d love to see your super hard work in pacing and cadence come even remotely close to beating me using full auto spam.

> In this case it is knowledge as there is no way a person can get K/Ds over 2.5 with the DMR and Pistol (and hold a 1.89 overall) with the 24% chance of loosing being the deciding factor in their battles. If the DMR made things truly random, a player couldn’t achieve a nice K/D while using it versus others if there wasn’t a skill-gap in the first place.

yea, because i really encounter people head on in 1v1 DMR battles 100% of the time. LOL. the reason i have a DMR and pistol KD thats so high is because i dont die because i dont put myself in 1v1 DMR situations because they are broken. doesnt mean it doesnt still happen, however. you cant escape the bad mechanics all the time. the one that gets me the most is the mini nukes, id say.

> I expect a skilled FPS player to not only know the odds of most, if not every situation, but I also expect them to know how to either increase or decrease the odds of said situations. Much so as opposed to throwing up one’s arms and crying “no joy” because of an unwillingness to use the other dimensions of the triangle or tetrahedron.

exactly, i know how to decrease the odds of said situation. how do i decrease the odds? by never 1v1ing people even tho i know im better at shooting and cadence than they are. why is that? because it doesnt matter that im better, they can just full auto spam and beat be without even trying to use their PRECISION RIFLE as it was intended, AT ANY RANGE. im not ‘unwilling’ to use the other mechanics, i use them all when i need to. the thing is, however, if you dont avoid melee battles like the plague in the first place, you are doing it wrong. also, grenades are all you need to use in this game, so i actively seek them all game. whats a spartan without his mini nukes am i right?! in every halo, you use what is appropriate for the situation. unfortunately, in halo reach, grenades are more viable to come out ahead a LOT of the time. see someone, chuck a nuke! follow up with a shot to the dome (if hes not dead already LOL).

> If a player does indeed use most of or all of their options available and still loose, obviously the other player isn’t skill-less if they won or tied, nor was the DMR the only factor in the fight

and if the DMR IS the only factor in the fight, its ok for the winner of the battle to be the person who didnt even attempt to use his gun correctly?

> Don’t accuse the a player who either tied or beat another player in a straight up DMR fight of being a lesser skilled player who got lucky (regardless of each other’s shot pacing).

um… what? thats exactly what it is. if i pace my shots using flawless cadence, and they just mash the R trigger, they are doing it wrong, and they are getting lucky if they win.

> A person using all of the options available is winning (as said, if consented, glitches are ok as they are an option to all), and that is skill.

there is 0 skill involved in abusing the DMR’s algorithm for ANY success given in spamming. NONE. ZILCH. ZIP. NADDA. double shotting takes skill, spamming does not. and what option is the spammer using, exactly? “watch this teddy, imma use my option to gimp myself into probably losing against the odds, but if he misses even 1 shot my chances will jump substantially!” HAHAHAHA.

> Honestly, it is the Halo that was envisioned over 10 years ago.

really? the forerunners of halo were really thinking
“guys, gather round, i have an idea”
“whats that steve? were all dying to hear youre idea, it sounds intense!”
“lets make a first person shooter, but get this… even if you shoot worse, you can STILL WIN BATTLES”
“wow steve, you are fired, thats literally one of the dumbest things i have ever heard”
“but wait, theres more!, lets have the melee battles so that -SOMETIMES- you cant shoot to get ahead”
“facepalm steve, facepalm”

> Halos, the undesired mechanics are far and few between.

says you. DMR is broken, melees are broken, grenades are broken, every single armor ability is broken.

596

> why is it better for the technical shooter to not win 100% of the time in DMR vs DMR only battles?

There is either a winner and looser or both players die. 100% of the time either there is a better user of the weapon in that exact battle in question. Or both players are equal in skill in that particular battle and both players die. 100% of the time.

> who benefits from the times when spamming beats pacing?

As I have just noted, everyone. It seems the DMR is not meant to be any trouble to hit a target in red-reticle range or even just beyond it. The DMR is suppose to allow a player to engage enemies at very long range but at the cost of kill-time. At close range, the DMR isn’t suppose to miss as it is suppose to give the user a chance against shorter range weapons too. At mid-range, the DMR made so that against the shorter ranged weapons, it doesn’t completely shred. (all the while the closer range weapons are made to compete at almost mid-range while not shredding too far from the user). Where DMR vs DMR battles are concerned, the bullets that may miss due to bloom because of firing too fast should automatically ring a bell in a players head that perhaps engaging at that distance is not a guarantee kill and that the player should use some sort of “assist,” be it cover, environment, a teammate, grenade, AA or other strategy to increase the odds of a win. How one chooses to assist themselves is called gaming.

To combine both into one; the better technical shooter can only prove their worth by expanding the ranges until they find their dominance range over the other. If one cannot find that range, then either both are equally skilled or the other player is better.
The better shooter isn’t always better at closer ranges against even the noobiest of noobs. Because at close ranges technical shooting skill isn’t as big a requirement as your target is so large anyways. So other options such as Grenades, Melees and other weapons become more viable options as the ranges between targets changes.
The better FPS player is the player who isn’t engaging battles on even ground, which gives both players a 50-50 chance no matter the skill level. The better FPS player uses range and/or mobility as their greatest weapon, not the individual weapons themselves. Of course, that’s in a balanced sandbox. When one can use a weapon that will technically beat all others but the insta-kills, why use anything else?

> the results from the test that showed that spamming wins vs pacing did use 2 players standing still, but… thats the most accurate way to get good results. players moving around really makes very little difference, and has very little effect on the result of a test like this because the player speed in halo reach is SUPER SLOW, so its REALLY HARD to miss, especially since the spammer has a watermelon sized reticule, and bullet magnetism for the head is GIGANTIC!

That’s a shame that you wish to dismiss a variable simply because you feel it is irrelevant rather than seeing how relevant it is. Strafing may not be much on the surface, but depending on the range and opponent, it is a layer that is leveled high in determining a battle’s outcome.

597

> There is either a winner and looser or both players die. 100% of the time either there is a better user of the weapon in that exact battle in question. Or both players are equal in skill in that particular battle and both players die. 100% of the time.

you did NOT answer my question. i said WHY IS IT BETTER? all youve done is state that if 2 people are exactly the same and use the gun exactly the same way and both fire at the exact same time, they will both die (which has literally no relevance to anything). 100% of the time there is NOT a ‘better use’ of the weapon, that is completely false. im talking about FULL AUTO SPAMMING beating pacing, what are you taking about? spamming isnt optimal for every shot at ANY RANGE, EVER (save MAYBE close range where you have to hit 4 shots before that sprinter will try to double melee you, and, even then, you MIGHT not be able to shoot to get ahead in this situation depending on how many inches he is away from you, and if its viable in that situation).

im not saying the better player should win every time. im saying the player who SHOOTS BETTER should win every time. your reply makes me believe you misunderstood, and thought the former.

then i post this question for you, and, yet again, you talk about irrelevant nonsense and completely dodge the question.

> who benefits from the times when spamming beats pacing?

so lets break it down. you give us all a huge paragraph to work with, so you would think that somewhere inside this paragraph you would answer my question, but this is not the case.

> As I have just noted, everyone. It seems the DMR is not meant to be any trouble to hit a target in red-reticle range or even just beyond it. The DMR is suppose to allow a player to engage enemies at very long range but at the cost of kill-time. At close range, the DMR isn’t suppose to miss as it is suppose to give the user a chance against shorter range weapons too. At mid-range, the DMR made so that against the shorter ranged weapons, it doesn’t completely shred. (all the while the closer range weapons are made to compete at almost mid-range while not shredding too far from the user).

good job, you explained to us something that not a single one of us didnt know. something that we werent even talking about.

> Where DMR vs DMR battles are concerned, the bullets that may miss due to bloom because of firing too fast should automatically ring a bell in a players head that perhaps engaging at that distance is not a guarantee kill and that the player should use some sort of “assist,” be it cover, environment, a teammate, grenade, AA or other strategy to increase the odds of a win. How one chooses to assist themselves is called gaming.

you start this with DMR vs DMR, which makes me hopeful that you will actually stay on topic, and answer the question being WHO IS BENEFITING FROM SPAMMING BEATING PACING, but, once again, you dodge.

> To combine both into one; the better technical shooter can only prove their worth by expanding the ranges until they find their dominance range over the other.

so what you are saying is, its ok because i can always stand on the very edge of the map and run away from anyone who comes even remotely close to me so that it works as intended? brilliant strategy!

> The better shooter isn’t always better at closer ranges against even the noobiest of noobs. Because at close ranges technical shooting skill isn’t as big a requirement as your target is so large anyways. So other options such as Grenades, Melees and other weapons become more viable options as the ranges between targets changes.

thats all fine and dandy, except this makes the game completely random at every single encounter at this range where you dont have those tools and other options and outs.

> When one can use a weapon that will technically beat all others but the insta-kills, why use anything else?

im not even talking about the sandbox. im talking about DMR vs DMR battles. how can you possibly stray off topic this hard, every single time i ask you a question. it boggles my mind, to say the very least.

> That’s a shame that you wish to dismiss a variable simply because you feel it is irrelevant rather than seeing how relevant it is. Strafing may not be much on the surface, but depending on the range and opponent, it is a layer that is leveled high in determining a battle’s outcome.

strafing makes very little difference in a battle where 1 person is trying to aim, and the other person doesnt even have to be close to aiming on target, or using their gun correctly. the player speed in this game is terribly slow, so its almost impossible to not be able to keep a part of the watermelon sized reticule on target.

===

ok so, imma ask you the questions again, cept this time imma lead you off so MAYBE, JUST MAYBE you’ll stay on topic.

question 1:

> why is it better for the technical shooter (the person who shoots better) to not win 100% of the time in DMR vs DMR only battles?

and here is your ‘answer starter’

> it is BETTER for the BETTER SHOOTER for this ONE ENCOUNTER to win LESS THAN 100% of the time BECAUSE:

please use that question starter so you wont drift off topic as you seem to like to.

question 2:

> who benefits from the times when spamming beats pacing?

and here is your ‘answer starter’

> an example of someone who benefits from the times when spamming beats pacing (at medium close to medium range) would be:

please answer these questions and try your hardest to stay on topic by being a champ and using my ‘question starters’ to help you! i have faith in your abilities!

598

> > oh? you finally understand that there is literally no reason for the DMR to have people who shoot worse win battles even 1% of the time? good for you!
> > or, if you are bad, just spam and win 24% of the time, and WAY MORE % if they miss even once!
>
> Well as I now see it, the DMR’s reticle timing has been tweaked to simulate the Halo3 BR’s spread pattern across the ranges. The DMR up until where short and mid-range mix is 99% likely to hit due to the reticle turning red at that range and engaging autoaim (1% on connection).
> Within red-retice range, there is a window were if both players engage each other at nearly the same time and both hit each other with equal hits within a relative window, both players will die.
> Just there the DMR looses red-reticle, that is where the conservation of ammo comes in and pacing your shots is rewarded. As opposed to the Halo3 BR which have you waste bullets at that same range to equivalent kill times from both the DMR and BR. The DMR when not showing red will only land shots inside the bloom (as opposed to if it was red, the edge of any reticle will seemingly land a hit, like the Halo3 BR).
> It’s only when the reticle is no longer red that the extra-skill required to wield either the DMR or BR comes into play where aiming and pacing is concerned.
>
>
> But this is a Halo game. Halo was always the trifecta. It is now a tetrahedron in certain gametypes. The thing about a trifecta is that for Grenades and Melees to be considered as effective as the Guns portion, the 2 other corners must be on par with the powerweapons of Guns corner. Grenades and Melees should be viable options when in a Halo fight.
>
> But this is Halo: Reach and as said it is a tetrahedron in most playlists instead of a triangle or 2 connecting dots. AAs can both hinder or enhance a portion of the triangle itself. AAs effect the triangle like a stunt-kite operator performing their moves.
>
> And because this is Halo and all options available to a person should be nearly equal in viability across the board (unless it’s SWAT or something like that), to me, if a person is only willing to judge or engage others with 1/3 of a triangle or 1/4 of a tetrahedron, then that person is lacking in overall skill and/or knowledge. In this case it is knowledge as there is no way a person can get K/Ds over 2.5 with the DMR and Pistol (and hold a 1.89 overall) with the 24% chance of loosing being the deciding factor in their battles. If the DMR made things truly random, a player couldn’t achieve a nice K/D while using it versus others if there wasn’t a skill-gap in the first place.
>
> I expect a skilled FPS player to not only know the odds of most, if not every situation, but I also expect them to know how to either increase or decrease the odds of said situations. Much so as opposed to throwing up one’s arms and crying “no joy” because of an unwillingness to use the other dimensions of the triangle or tetrahedron. If a player does indeed use most of or all of their options available and still loose, obviously the other player isn’t skill-less if they won or tied, nor was the DMR the only factor in the fight.
>
> Don’t accuse the a player who either tied or beat another player in a straight up DMR fight of being a lesser skilled player who got lucky (regardless of each other’s shot pacing). If someone looses to another person using more of the triangle or tetra than than the other did, the person who used more is obviously skilled too. Maybe not as skilled in the shooting category. At this point it’s moot. A person using all of the options available is winning (as said, if consented, glitches are ok as they are an option to all), and that is skill. Using 1 weapon because it takes the most skill to use is not the same as using skill to win. Restricting others to use 1 weapon is a means to create symmetrical combat, not competitive. They two are completely different.
>
> And this leads me back to way back a few pages. I don’t care what Halo you like most. Don’t accuse Reach of being broken as an excuse for why you don’t like it. Reach is very balanced, very fair and Yomi-heavy. Reach is the closest to vision meets execution a Halo has ever seen. Honestly, it is the Halo that was envisioned over 10 years ago. And unlike the past Halos, the undesired mechanics are far and few between.
> It’s ok to love other Halos, but don’t think it has to do with removing skill, not caring for the community or because the formula was radically changed. I will point out those facts are indeed opinions based in either ignorance or fear.

I can’t believe the energy with which you defend this game. You write pages about its excellence. Balance? You honestly believe theres balance and only a few undesirable traits?

I’m sure your going to try to use some logic that you think is obvious to nullify anything I say negative about this game. But from what I can tell about your arguement, you either do not use the DMR much or accurately enough to notice the problem. You shoot at player 1, wait for the reticle to decrease, but die before it resets, because player 1 fire faster than you.

This game removed skill. Blatantly. It has better graphics, but half the value of any other title. Go on, prove my ignorance and fear.

599

I hope it dies, it deserves to because no one is fixing it.

600

yea, ive stopped playing it. this is the only halo game that i dont find fun. when you take out the skill, you take out the fun for a lot of people, thats exactly what happened in reach.