> Bleedthrough > Double melee.
>
> I’d rather have the first than the second, and can’t see a problem with the first anyway.
You mean like the enemy you are fighting has no sheilds while you have half sheilds and you run out of ammo, then both of you melee and both die?
Thats a problem.
Are you saying that if I shoot a guy three times and melee him, it should be equal to a guy who sprints up to me and melees me once without firing off any shots?
> Are you saying that if I shoot a guy three times and melee him, it should be equal to a guy who sprints up to me and melees me once without firing off any shots?
You should keep shooting then melee.
Bleedthrough and no bleedthrough are equally bad. Not one is better.
It should be 3 melees. With no Bleedthrough. That way there is incentive to shoot.
3 Melees works very well in MLG however I know that wont happen to regular.
At least this is my opinion.
> > … I will always opt to participate in a more Tactical-style Gametype over that of an Arena-style Gametype within Halo’s multiplayer
>
> Judging by you not liking The Arena, I can tell that you are a casual player. Their is still vanilla Reach for you to play and the changes from the TU is going to be in seperate playlists and some changes will be spread across all the playlists like the fixes to armor lock and active camo and sword block.
Excuse me for interrupting Spartan 472, but I really have to call ‘bs’ on this one here.
Labeling anyone by the loaded term ‘Casual’ is such a dangerous move in the first place, but to call someone who clearly defines a love of ”Tactical-style” play ‘casual’ is clearly being dishonest. If anything, players who enter into ‘tactical’ style play tend towards the ultra-hardcore stemming into tons of squad-based communication-dependent firefights. Consistent. Controlled. Only the passionate and hardcore would take that kind of approach to gaming.
“their” =/= “there”
Knowing many of Spartan 472’s opinions over the course of Reach’s evolution since pre-launch era, I can say with fair assurance that he desires many things OTHER than vanilla reach gameplay. If anything, vanilla reach is severely deficient and the TU changes are definitely for the better. The problem is that they don’t go far enough, and that is the point he’s trying to emphasize.
>>
Good points all around by the way 472. 99% agreement as usual.
***** Scroll down to the line of Asterisks for Pure Suggestions *****
Nearing the 200th page of this thread, I’m doubting that these words will ever see the light of day… but I can always hope right?? To be clear, this is for the eyes & ears of that “dynamic duo of Greg and Chad” steamrolling through to make the Title Update AWESOME. I want to commend that team for working so actively to get this TU done right and to polish Reach’s base gameplay to make it much more vibrant…
Some General Comments on Multiplayer:
Anniversary, like Reach, is a new addition to the Halo Franchise, and they exist as standalone games in their own right. They NEED to feel slightly different in their flavor variation. Chocolate, Vanilla, or Peachy Paterno, it’s still Ice Cream. With that in mind, what makes Halo… Halo (or Ice Cream the familiar tasty treat it embodies)??
Three Items:
*I’d also like to add that movement was a constant in this equation, and THAT is important.
Instant Immersion >> You should never be more than 15 seconds away from a firefight. Rush to help the team, bam fight, die, respawn, rinse & repeat. Quick gameplay is essential to the mix. Think back to the days of Early RvB in Beaver Creek (“Kittens Covered in SPIKES”).
Teamwork-Driven Framework >> Everything from the identical cyborg costumes to the common team colors to the common identical spawn set-ups (weapon, perspective) induces this drive to work as a team. Any sort of Objective / BTB play epitomizes this point. Within this point lies the desire and will to WIN, as well as the currency for all ranking systems, which require the ‘W’.
{And I’d be -Yoink!- sure in saying that Team Play is far more important to Halo than FFA any day of the weak. FFA is a variation, i.e. it doesn’t DEFINE Halo.}
Granted, this quasi-opinion, although founded in social interactions with thousands of players across Halo CE to today’s Reach, is bound to be slightly bias from my perspective. That said, I stand in the majority.
Many of Reach’s mechanics start to infringe upon some of these points, mostly unintentionally. Take for instance the element of Armor Abilities, which truly start to add a Fourth component to the sacred Golden Triangle. While this isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it does start to chip away at the foundation of the “halo” namesake and turn it into something different. It’s my suggestion to turn AAs into a SUPPLEMENTAL unit separate from the Triangle entirely.
How so?
Pick-Ups my darlings. For so many reasons that any good MLG player could describe in detail. Here’s the shortish version:
{
Pick-ups should be the (or at least A) default for Vanilla Halo because they encapsulate the need for priorizitation of an advantage-inducing ability through Map Control. Real Estate is another one of those ‘unspoken’ pillars of Halo (in Team Play). Inherently, two bases or ‘team areas’ exist as ‘safer zones’ for respawning to take place and areas of strong resistance to be inherently present. Most, if not all AAs severely compromise this idea of static spawn areas through their sprinting, sneaking, jetpacking, evading, etc…
Utilizing a vehicle is one thing, because you’ve attained an asset and are exploiting the advantage by plowing into enemy territory guns blazaing. Hopping into a match going 100% evade to simply disrupt basic gameplay organization is as disorienting as it is contrary to the ‘TEAMWORK’ leg of the Triangle. Let me explain >> Dynamic Gameplay, (the norm for Reach) requires 360 degree attention, allowing continuous flanking maneuvers to take place illogically. There is no such thing as ‘clearing’ an area in Reach because the game can simply spawn someone in the same location in the next moment. This thereby allows no Team to declare a ‘home’ and turns the game into less of a team vs. team game and more into a spawning-flanking-individuals vs. centric team in control.
I’d LOVE to see Pick-up variants to exist alongside ‘AR/P’ & ‘DMR’ start variants. It seems to be the natural progression.
}
So many other changes took place… too many for me to count, but I’ll lay out the big issues here:
Issues
AA – Fourth Among the “Golden Triangle”
1a. Individual AA Quirks – “Double Beatdowns”, “AL Frosting”, “Invis More Transparency, Less Time PLOX”, “Hologram Gray Dot (i.e. please register a red dot on holograms to make them look semi legitimate to absorb at least one bullet afor ‘fizzing out’)”, etc.
HUGE Maps (cough Boneyard/Spire) + Default Super-Utilitarian-&-Long-Range DMR – Map Movement Restriction and CQC Obsolescence
Bloom Lacks Punishment Element – Goal: Deter Lucky Spamming… Result: Lucky Spamming can beat Perfect Cadence… PROBLEM
DMR – The One-All-Be-All weapon – Why use anything else (excluding Power Weapons)? It beats Short Range, parries snipers, decent long range, accurate, vehicle killer, etc… WAY too much
Vehicle & Plasma Weapons Diminished – Sniper & DMR damage to vehicles is SUPER powerful. Too powerful if you ask most of the vehicle community. Taking down a tank should be a tough task. Although I think Snipers probably shouldn’t equal ‘god weapons’ in their anti-vehicle capability, I could withstand that fact if the plasma weapons were able to do far more damage to vehicles than human counterparts, that would allow DMRs to become more balanced and covie weapons like the PR/PR to become much more prevalent in their vehicle-buster component.
Banshee Abuse – Everybody knows Gamesager. Solution has been quite simple for a while now. Deplete boost bar w/ flipity-flips-&-flops. Force Banshee to act as it should, a swoop-pop-flip-pop-fly away vehicle. too many flips and you’re wide open for a take down grins
Sniper God-Weapon – More people fight over this weapon than any other in the game. Remove vehicle domination aspect… allow other weapons to shine in that respect (Plasma… such as MICROWAVE GUN!! – or whatever it’s called Covie Snipe)
Team Betrayals for Weapons >> Individual Betraying Another player should be unable to pick up murdered player’s weapons.
General Customization Options =/= Generation >> The level of customization in a Halo 2 game was huge compared to its stage in the Halo generation, and H3 built on this. Reach has Forge 2.0 but Game Options 0.5 in that there are so many simple things missing: WHY force particular values 1,3,5, etc? Why not give us any value between -15 & 15? Surely it doesn’t really matter, one int variable isn’t too hard to store in code. Why give us the ability to change bullet count, but not give us the ability to affect battery life? Simple Options. Open them up.
And Last, but SURE AS HELL not least:
Most of the above have super obvious fixes, and many you’ve already addressed (some of 1a, 2, 3, etc.) but please take a second look at the rest of the info here.
Closing Remarks:
Balancing a game is a helluva difficult thing to do, especially with sandboxes so huge and diverse as those in Halo. But if I can make a suggestion: Every weapon + vehicle should have a ‘perfect scenario’ where it is given a huge advantage X% of time. Power Weapons and Vehicles should naturally have larger %s, but only on the order of 5% or so. If weapons lose thier sweet spots, then people will simply stop using them (cough PR cough). Incentivize use through other ways (such as Plasma/Vehicle Damage). Thanks for listening guys. REALLY appreciate it.
And just to make this one-stop shopping, here’s a couple of other misc. things that bother me about halo.xbox.com
The overall interface is a … son of a gun … to use. I really have to regress into stupidity to use the interface and to get where I want to go. If I were looking for generalized Halo media, then I’m good to go. Unfortunately, I want a discussion with hardcore facts linked to your version of the BWU… community bulletin or some such.
Give me some hover-over text with the pictures you upload!! I’m always sad to see that there isn’t any.
Give me a multi-quote option, or at least make quoting a tad more user-friendly. Quoting one guy is fine. Quoting several involves 10 tabs and a whole lot of Ctrl-C/V
<3<3<3<3<3
Oh, and uh… sorry about the whole triple post thing. Was on a roll. (Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!? >> Mentality)
> Was on a roll. (Did we give up when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor?!? >> Mentality)
Fixed.
new rank system lol
who wants the 1-50 back?
> who wants the 1-50 back?
This.
is there anything else in the TU? Or is what they posted all of it?
> who wants the 1-50 back?
You realize that 1-50 is still there right, you just don’t see it except in The Arena.
> who wants the 1-50 back?
1-50 was also flawed. Boosters and De-rankers, Halo 3 got pathetic.
If they bring it back they have to fix it.
i hop on your falcon and i get to boot you for betraying me. that needs to fixed,if i hop on your rotors and die i should get a suicide not an option to boot an innocent player
> 6. Banshee Abuse – Everybody knows Gamesager. Solution has been quite simple for a while now. Deplete boost bar w/ flipity-flips-&-flops. Force Banshee to act as it should, a swoop-pop-flip-pop-fly away vehicle. too many flips and you’re wide open for a take down grins
This. Sorry, 343i, but this is one you’re really going to have to pull your finger out on for a future TU. I’m getting extremely tired of coming up against people that can’t even point me to the business end of a DMR, and yet manage to get ridiculous sprees because they can avoid AA fire (not to mention those same people bragging about a high K/D that they don’t deserve).
Using the Banshee tricks should be as it was in Halo 3 - a skilful, timed application of a limited-use ability, rather than fire-flip-forget. It’s pretty much an Armour Ability in that you have to use it correctly and skilfully, or be punished for abusing it. I can counter Armour Lock and bloom right now by adapting my play style to fit; I can’t adapt to a Banshee I can’t kill because I’m spending 70% of my game-time watching the respawn counter.
Just need some clarification on aspects of the TU, sorry if this has been discussed previously.
Nothing against the op magnum, can’t wait for some classic action, but I like playing with the Reach sandbox aswell and with changes coming I think it will make playing Reach even better!
> Just need some clarification on aspects of the TU, sorry if this has been discussed previously.
>
> 1. Can I play Reach and the CEA maps with the TU changes (bloom, AL. AC etc), in the same playlist but with out the buffed magnum?
>
> Nothing against the op magnum, can’t wait for some classic action, but I like playing with the Reach sandbox aswell and with changes coming I think it will make playing Reach even better!
Yes. The maps will be available to all playlists, and the TU changes will exist solely in dedicated playlists (though I have a feeling that the DLC will exist in its own specific playlist for a while, a la Noble/Defiant).
Hope that helps!
> > Just need some clarification on aspects of the TU, sorry if this has been discussed previously.
> >
> > 1. Can I play Reach and the CEA maps with the TU changes (bloom, AL. AC etc), in the same playlist but with out the buffed magnum?
> >
> > Nothing against the op magnum, can’t wait for some classic action, but I like playing with the Reach sandbox aswell and with changes coming I think it will make playing Reach even better!
>
> Yes. The maps will be available to all playlists, and the TU changes will exist solely in dedicated playlists (though I have a feeling that the DLC will exist in its own specific playlist for a while, a la Noble/Defiant).
>
> Hope that helps!
Thank you my only hope now is that the playlist interface will be streamlined and easy to understand, not that I would have a problem but I’m thinking of all the kids that might have trouble selecting what to play. It could end up affecting poplulations in certain playlist due to a confusing playlist selection, if it was up to me not saying I’m right or anyone else is wrong but I would make the TU take up changes in all playlist.
Some players might not understand why the bloom characteristics, changes to AA’s and magnum are different from one playlist to another. So I would have a normal Reach playlist with the TU changes and a “classic” playlist for that CE feel, with each playlist having identical gametypes.
Please label points “A” and “B” in Invasion!
Also, put Noble and Defiant with Anniversary