Every shooter nowadays has the exact same environment. Broken walls, trash on the ground, and most everything is thrashed. This is boring and one of things that makes Halo so different is that many of the levels are on futuristic environments that give it a whole different feel.
Just tired of seeing the same old thrashed city level getting rehashed by every game developer and hope the next Halo doesn’t get stuck in this semi-destroyed city dilemma.
I do agree with you on that. But one of the problems I have is that they only make a few walls broken, just scattered around the map. If the city is supposed to be a warzone, then why not make it a warzone? A city that’s untouched wouldn’t be a bad thing either.
Halo is in a great position now to leverage its sci-fi aspect. It simply needs to do more to make not only the environment art but the level design more fantastic (since we are stuck in a few dull motifs of boxed canyons, simple hallways, and ramped citadels that could really use some spice and innovation.)
I think that futuristic environments that have some partial damage are cool, its just boring when its the same war-torn contemporary city location that looks like it went to hell. I just don’t care how fancy the graphics are when its just showing peeled paint on the doors, trash in the water, dust in the air, or ripped up asphalt on the roads. I want to see awesome things that don’t exist in Los Angeles.
> Halo is in a great position now to leverage its sci-fi aspect. It simply needs to do more to make not only the environment art but the level design more fantastic (since we are stuck in a few dull motifs of boxed canyons, simple hallways, and ramped citadels that could really use some spice and innovation.)
What is there for them to do that hasn’t been done yet for map design/theme?
We’ve had: Forests, Canyons, Arctics, Asteroids, Space Stations, Deserts, Jungle Ruins, Cities, Caves, Structures next to an Ocean, Inside Alien Structures, and Swamps.
Volcano/lava was only done in SpOps, but I really can’t think of anything else.
> What is there for them to do that hasn’t been done yet for map design/theme?
>
> We’ve had: Forests, Canyons, Arctics, Asteroids, Space Stations, Deserts, Jungle Ruins, Cities, Caves, Structures next to an Ocean, Inside Alien Structures, and Swamps.
>
> Volcano/lava was only done in SpOps, but I really can’t think of anything else.
Savannah, tundra, tropical coastline, grassland, barrens, alien topography of whatever damn kind you wish, and the theme of “alien structures” is FAR from being fully explored by any game.
You have absolutely no imagination. And besides this all falls within “environment art.” What I’m getting at is that 343 could and should be ding a lot to improve the depth, variety, and style of the levels they build since for the most part what they shipped in Halo 4 is not that far above the level of Combat Evolved (which even for the time was a little simple). Even working with the same environments 343 could be doing A LOT more.
> > What is there for them to do that hasn’t been done yet for map design/theme?
> >
> > We’ve had: Forests, Canyons, Arctics, Asteroids, Space Stations, Deserts, Jungle Ruins, Cities, Caves, Structures next to an Ocean, Inside Alien Structures, and Swamps.
> >
> > Volcano/lava was only done in SpOps, but I really can’t think of anything else.
>
> Savannah, tundra, tropical coastline, grassland, barrens, alien topography of whatever damn kind you wish, and the theme of “alien structures” is FAR from being fully explored by any game. And within what we have already done there’s a huge amount of possible variety since its been very constrained by the tech and our level design conventions (see. a pine forest versus a pine canyon.)
>
> You have absolutely no imagination. And besides this all falls within “environment art.” What I’m getting at is that 343 could and should to a lot to improve the depth, variety, and style of the levels they build since for the most part its not that far above the level of Combat Evolved (which even for the time was a little simple). Even working with the same environments 343 could be doing A LOT more.
Wow, that hit me straight in the feels, bro. Seriously, there’s no need to get so aggressive and vulgar about this.
Of course you can make variations for every theme that’s been done, anyone can think of that. You can have entirely different designs for Forerunner architecture and paneling like Halo 3 did with the Gold and other colors on The Ark, and you can make infinite variations of Brush, Desert regions, or Snowy plains and mountains.
However, is any of that really new? No, what I was thinking of is broader environments, what can they do that has no strong relation to what’s been done before. Amazingly enough, Halo had never depicted Lava before Halo 4, so what else is there that might’ve been skipped over? My comment was requesting the people here to think of some truly alien environment that hasn’t been seen ever before. What you have said doesn’t really help, environment variations aren’t anywhere near similar to brand new environments.
Terminal from Halo 2 was great because it looked untouched, but parts of it were damaged but were very miniscule.
The runaway train, the warning alarms, and the fact that it was abandoned. AWESOME MAP!!!
If Halo 5 multiplayer is as good as Halo 2 and 3, and the vehicles don’t suck, I’d be fine with them remaking this map.
> Wow, that hit me straight in the feels, bro. Seriously, there’s no need to get so aggressive and vulgar about this.
What? You’re asserting (to put it very simply) that because we’ve made a few box canyons and grey platforms set around a small set of color pallets we’ve used up the creative potential for the entire sci-fi genre. I’m sorry if you feel that this is a vicious personal attack that strikes at the very heart of your ego for nothing better than forum points, but you have [little] imagination. I mean this as a simple statement with none of the above implied.
For example, take my suggestion of having an open forested environment. To you this is nothing radical. “We’ve already done that!” Well, no we haven’t. Even the multiplayer map timberland was a poor facsimile for any real forested landscape, especially one peppered with the spice of the sci-fi genre. Nor has the Silent Cartographer even scratched the surface of the gameplay that might be had with better developed beach scenarios. Nor has the Truth and Reconciliation approached anywhere true desert gameplay. There’s a LOT we could be doing within already established environments and there’s a lot more that could be added (especially in the realm of alien ecologies) that would have a much more profound impact on gameplay than a pallet swap and another type of art asset filling the death pits (Super Mario 1 style.) We haven’t even tried to create a heterogeneous landscape, only “environment types” in the same style as, well Super Mario 1.
And then there’s the matter of making current architecture more intricate, more dynamic, more complex to enable a greater range of possible gameplay. Again there’s a definite motif in Halo of boxed canyons leading, through simple hallways, to ramped citadels of one kind or another which can be EASILY changed with a different level design format.
If you want a specific example, take a forerunner teleportation hub, populated with a tremendous mixture of floating platforms that can be directed to various different locations to mix each individual platform type with many different combinations and combinations among combinations with integrated teleportation systems. You can then also set this on a lifeless planet, sporting a rain-soaked rock-barrens landscape with weather blasted rock formations and interactive plyons and platforms to deliver a very different kind of Halo. A contrary mix of life-giving water on a lifeless planet set still apart from a dazzling variety of alien machinery that force you to in almost every particular play differently. Rely on the cover of the channels, use the contorted land forms as momentary cover, or try to take tactical advantage of the moving platforms. Flank, sneak, charge, it’s all there in the combination of novel art type and level design.
Example 2: Forerunner bioengineering facility mixing a dozen different alien ecologies into a single chaos of rampaging experiments and samples.
Example 3: Oceanic forerunner platforms that strike to the darkest depths of an alien biosphere.
Example 4: Human colony world, open tundra re-establishing itself over a glassed landscape.
Example 5: Forerunner station in slipspace.
Example 6: Simply a non-terrestrial alien ecology. See. Alien Planet (available on Netflix.)
In no respect have we finished with the creative possibilities of Halo, even though you simply don’t see it. Again I’m not trying to put you down, only point out a potential blind spot.
> > What is there for them to do that hasn’t been done yet for map design/theme?
> >
> > We’ve had: Forests, Canyons, Arctics, Asteroids, Space Stations, Deserts, Jungle Ruins, Cities, Caves, Structures next to an Ocean, Inside Alien Structures, and Swamps.
> >
> > Volcano/lava was only done in SpOps, but I really can’t think of anything else.
>
> Savannah, tundra, tropical coastline, grassland, barrens, alien topography of whatever damn kind you wish, and the theme of “alien structures” is FAR from being fully explored by any game.
>
> You have absolutely no imagination. And besides this all falls within “environment art.” What I’m getting at is that 343 could and should be ding a lot to improve the depth, variety, and style of the levels they build since for the most part what they shipped in Halo 4 is not that far above the level of Combat Evolved (which even for the time was a little simple). Even working with the same environments 343 could be doing A LOT more.
Savannah-We had those in Halo 3
Tundra-Two missions with those in Halo CE and 1 in Reach
Tropical Coasts-If you count MP than i think every FPS series has those.
Grasslands-Reach
Barren-ODST Wildlife Reserve
Alien topography-Alot of places in Halo 2 including MP in all Halo’s.
But really, no reason for you to throw out insults at the guy for saying a few things that we have seen before, when you did the same.
What i think we need now is just The Void of Space. So far that is he last things that can be humanly perceived at this point as innovation in location and that is just barley.
IF you can find out something that hasn’t been done that ask for 343i to try it because after i was in a Flood Hive i was sure this was one of the most creative places one could be. GOW did give us a bit of a flip with going underground but they dragged a city with them lol
to the OP you say you’re tired of destroyed city levels but i’ sort of confused. What do you expect from a First Person Shooter. Most FPS are about wars and i’m sure not all battles take place in a swamp or a desert.
It would be crazy to not have a city map.
> > Wow, that hit me straight in the feels, bro. Seriously, there’s no need to get so aggressive and vulgar about this.
>
> What? You’re asserting (to put it very simply) that because we’ve made a few box canyons and grey platforms set around a small set of color pallets we’ve used up the creative potential for the entire sci-fi genre. I’m sorry if you feel that this is a vicious personal attack that strikes at the very heart of your ego for nothing better than forum points, but you have [little] imagination. I mean this as a simple statement with none of the above implied.
>
> For example, take my suggestion of having an open forested environment. To you this is nothing radical. “We’ve already done that!” Well, no we haven’t. Even the multiplayer map timberland was a poor facsimile for any real forested landscape, especially one peppered with the spice of the sci-fi genre. Nor has the Silent Cartographer even scratched the surface of the gameplay that might be had with better developed beach scenarios. Nor has the Truth and Reconciliation approached anywhere true desert gameplay. There’s a LOT we could be doing within already established environments and there’s a lot more that could be added (especially in the realm of alien ecologies) that would have a much more profound impact on gameplay than a pallet swap and another type of art asset filling the death pits (Super Mario 1 style.) We haven’t even tried to create a heterogeneous landscape, only “environment types” in the same style as, well Super Mario 1.
>
> And then there’s the matter of making current architecture more intricate, more dynamic, more complex to enable a greater range of possible gameplay. Again there’s a definite motif in Halo of boxed canyons leading, through simple hallways, to ramped citadels of one kind or another which can be EASILY changed with a different level design format.
>
> If you want a specific example, take a forerunner teleportation hub, populated with a tremendous mixture of floating platforms that can be directed to various different locations to mix each individual platform type with many different combinations and combinations among combinations with integrated teleportation systems. You can then also set this on a lifeless planet, sporting a rain-soaked rock-barrens landscape with weather blasted rock formations and interactive plyons and platforms to deliver a very different kind of Halo. A contrary mix of life-giving water on a lifeless planet set still apart from a dazzling variety of alien machinery that force you to in almost every particular play differently. Rely on the cover of the channels, use the contorted land forms as momentary cover, or try to take tactical advantage of the moving platforms. Flank, sneak, charge, it’s all there in the combination of novel art type and level design.
>
> Example 2: Forerunner bioengineering facility mixing a dozen different alien ecologies into a single chaos of rampaging experiments and samples.
>
> Example 3: Oceanic forerunner platforms that strike to the darkest depths of an alien biosphere.
>
> Example 4: Human colony world, open tundra re-establishing itself over a glassed landscape.
>
> Example 5: Forerunner station in slipspace.
>
> Example 6: Simply a non-terrestrial alien ecology. See. Alien Planet (available on Netflix.)
>
>
> In no respect have we finished with the creative possibilities of Halo, even though you simply don’t see it. Again I’m not trying to put you down, only point out a potential blind spot.
Okay, i think i understand what you’re getting at. You don’t want environments that are sort of chopped up into different parts like you stated with Timberlands but you want fully specific environmental areas.
The only issue i see with that is how terrible the gameplay would be. I can see this happening in a Single Player only game like Skyrim but something like Halo when people are expected to be fighting hordes of foes or having unique play movements in MP it wouldn’t go very well.
Imagine playing in a 4v4 Team Slayer match and you are in a area with clear fields and grassy noels. Wouldn’t really be very fun. It would just be a shooting gallery.
Structures can work with being only one type of orientation and style but outside environments need diversity or it is just boring. It might seem like a good idea but when in actual effect it’s not going to go very well. Just think on this scale.
The Devs want the things you want too, but there has to be some reason why they couldn’t add it in.
> Volcano/lava was only done in SpOps, but I really can’t think of anything else.
And it was terrible. Even Forerunner merely used death barriers instead of implementing an actual lava effect, you can easily get under the lava “graphics” and see that there’s nothing below.
> Savannah, tundra, tropical coastline, grassland, barrens, alien topography of whatever damn kind you wish, and the theme of “alien structures” is FAR from being fully explored by any game.
Good points!
> What? You’re asserting (to put it very simply) that because we’ve made a few box canyons and grey platforms set around a small set of color pallets we’ve used up the creative potential for the entire sci-fi genre.
Where did I say that? Please show me, because I recall saying no such thing.
> I’m sorry if you feel that this is a vicious personal attack that strikes at the very heart of your ego for nothing better than forum points, but you have [little] imagination. I mean this as a simple statement with none of the above implied.
I asked for others’ ideas on possible geography and environments that haven’t ever been done before, and aren’t small variations of typical things like: Grasslands, Forests, Arctic regions, Alien Ships/Buildings, and Canyons. Do you want me to draw you concept art of some alien landscapes in some distant corner of the Milky Way or something? I was asking for the ideas of other people that might already be formalized, I was not thinking up and stating my own ideas.
> For example, take my suggestion of having an open forested environment. To you this is nothing radical. “We’ve already done that!” Well, no we haven’t. Even the multiplayer map timberland was a poor facsimile for any real forested landscape, especially one peppered with the spice of the sci-fi genre.
It hasn’t been done before, but again this is variation. Not to say variation is bad, it’s perfectly fine and like I said there’s infinite possibilities with it. I have been asking for out-of-the-box ideas on environments.
> Example 3: Oceanic forerunner platforms that strike to the darkest depths of an alien biosphere.
Ah, this is nice. I knew there was something basic that I was forgetting, underwater! I appreciate this, I was thinking about it myself not a moment ago, but I failed to make the connection.
> Example 6: Simply a non-terrestrial alien ecology. See. Alien Planet (available on Netflix.)
I’ve seen it, and while it’s quite interesting it focuses more on the possible exotic lifeforms than exotic worlds. A great show nonetheless, but not exactly what I’ve been aiming for.
Your other ideas were nice as well, some more than others though. A Forerunner ship in slipspace, wouldn’t that just be a plain black skymap? The glassed world would certainly be interesting, possible otherworldly rock/black glass formations could be quite pleasant to see. I’m thankful that you finally brought about some innovative environmental designs; that’s really all I’ve been asking for, I don’t why we had to go through all this trouble to get here though.
> In no respect have we finished with the creative possibilities of Halo, even though you simply don’t see it. Again I’m not trying to put you down, only point out a potential blind spot.
And never did I say the potential had run dry. I’ve merely been asking for diversity from the cliched environments that Halo has gotten stuck in a bit of a rut with.