Tired of excessive H5 negativity - 7 reasons

First things first: This isn’t the typical ‘If you don’t like H5 find yourself another game’ or ‘All you want is a Halo 2.5” post. I consider that rude/intolerant.

All I want is to give a perspective on why I and others (I see a larger trend) are really unnerved as a result of the (in my perspective) excessive negativity in the H5 board.
And no, as little as all critics are mindless haters/obstructionists all of these people are apologists or fanboys.

  1. The tone. Some critics lack any form of respect. 343i is being portrayed as dishonest, malicious, money-mad and/or generally incompetent – H5 as some kind of monstrosity that does nothing of value.

  2. Damage done to the franchise. With both H5 and 343i constantly being depicted in a very bad light there’s actual damage done to the brand that has no basis in reality. Even H4 (Metacritic 87%) is a (relatively) very good game, yet reading through some threads it’s saddening to see that other games of less quality get away just fine while some Halo ‘fans’ tear their own franchise apart.

  3. Elitism. Instead of welcoming others to our beloved franchise a certain subgroup tries their best to scare newcomers away. There is a zero-tolerance policy regarding all kinds of changes that help people to get in touch with the series (Spartan callouts, ADS,…) and those people are blind to the fact that Halo is not the sole top FPS anymore.

  4. Constant negativity in diverse dedicated discussion boards is a trend that goes far beyond the Halo Waypoint discussions boards. More and more people have a feeling that this ‘hate’ is getting out of hand as the Internet enables (among positive things) new forms of mob justice, overall harshness and cynicism.

  5. Dedicated discussion boards are not a good representation of the whole (potential) H5 player population.
    Just a little thought experiment: If we (generously) assume that 10.000 Halo players regularly take part in dedicated discussions in diverse message boards all over the net that is about 0.11% (one tenth of one percent) of the whole population (average Halo sells: 9 million). Now if we take into consideration that this 0.11% is not a homogeneous group (there are very different opinions even among the most dedicated fans) and in no way a representative sample (there are whole subgroups of players that are not likely to post in discussion boards at all) the conclusiveness becomes even more limited.
    The problem is not the discussion per se, the problem is the mindset that the needs of a very small subgroup of players is equivalent to those of all Halo players (or the notion that this subgroup is the most important one).
    The resulting intolerance (‘true Halo’ – ‘true fan’) and the inevitable devaluation of others (‘incompetent 343’ – ‘only competitive players know what they are talking about’) is driving some people insane (which doesn’t mean that there isn’t a similar intolerance on the ‘other side’ too).

  6. Constant negativity creates a vicious circle that has lots of bad side effects. It creates a climate of hostility within the community (just look at the threads in the H5 board) and between the community and the developer. It draws the attention to the things that don’t work which makes even small things seem huge while at the same time (subconsciously) devaluing positive aspects.
    Constant negativity leads to other people feeling bad about things they would have never considered themselves and the suppression of (true) joy and anticipation.

  7. 343i is NOT Bungie and never will be. That is neither a positive nor a negative thing.
    In my perception the constant comparisons are profoundly unjust.
    Bungie had to start somewhere too and 343i is a developer that just formed.
    It was Bungie that left the Halo brand behind, accepting that is the first necessary step. I sometimes get the feeling that some fans are caught in some kind of posttraumatic stress syndrome.
    Expecting 343i (and thus H5) to be just like Bungie (or the previous Halo titles) is extremely unreasonable.
    H5 will have it’s own set of strengths and weaknesses – constantly measuring it by Bungie’s strengths can only lead to disappointment. Having to read that element X in H5 is not the same as element Y in H1-3 over and over again is getting really tiresome too.

What I’ve tried to convey is that there is a difference between constructive and well-rounded criticism, constant negativity and hate.

I know that beneath all the cynicism what really binds us is the love for Halo. So what we need in our H5 discussions is less hostility and more tolerance and overall respect.

<mark>Do not create or use alternate accounts.</mark>

Spartan in a wheelchair

MCC launch

At some point 343 just has to stop making huge blunders.

> 2535441634768829;2:
> Spartan in a wheelchair
>
> MCC launch
>
> At some point 343 just has to stop making huge blunders.

You make it sound like 343 were the only company to have a bad launch last year.

> 2535441634768829;2:
> Spartan in a wheelchair
>
> MCC launch
>
> At some point 343 just has to stop making huge blunders.

Spartan in a wheelchair is the result of the same intolerance I’ve talked about i.e. believing that you are the center of the universe.

Believe it or not: There are lots of less experienced players or players that are completely new to the franchise.

> 2533274882881665;3:
> > 2535441634768829;2:
> > Spartan in a wheelchair
> >
> > MCC launch
> >
> > At some point 343 just has to stop making huge blunders.
>
>
> You make it sound like 343 were the only company to have a bad launch last year.

only ones who havent fixed it

i have said it before and it is now they only thing i have left to say on the matter of “whose right”

> 2533274865708979;6:
> > 2533274907934539;3:
> > If only 343i would revert back to arena settings, with equal starts and emphasis on map control, controlling power weapons, and team coordination.
> >
> > Oh. That’s exactly what happened.
> >
> > If a ton of stuff won’t be changed before release… in my eyes, that’s a good thing.
>
> exactly… this.they got what they asked for. but they don’t like it. maybe if they have such a good idea of what people want they should go out, start a studio with their like minded stuck in the past people and make a game of their own that is a carbon copy of halo 2 or 3’s mechanics with upscale graphics. and if, IF, it knocks the ball out the park on sales and if, IF, it’s population stays around for a year or more, then they have earn’t themselves the right to say they know whats best. but they won’t/can’t. i give up putting forth arguments for and against each mechanic, because which ever side i try defend the other always reverts to either the “change happens adapt or go play the game you want this game to be because it hasn’t gone anywhere” or the “you just aren’t a real fan and must be bad at the game” ignorant -Yoink- that both sides come out with i hall simply tell the people who want halo 3 ver2 to go make halo 3 ver2 and see if it works. and the most amusing part is -Yoink!- would probably help them with their drive to support indie studios…
>
> so, start a studio, go to -Yoink!-, get on their indie developer list and make halo 3 ver2. LET US ALL SEE HOW WELL YOU DO!

> 2535459330974836;5:
> > 2533274882881665;3:
> > > 2535441634768829;2:
> > > Spartan in a wheelchair
> > >
> > > MCC launch
> > >
> > > At some point 343 just has to stop making huge blunders.
> >
> >
> >
> > You make it sound like 343 were the only company to have a bad launch last year.
>
>
> only ones who havent fixed it

Hence your post proving the op’s point. First off the MCC was a massive game to take on , 4 games in one vs a dev who made a single game. Second it in fact was not 343 who made the MCC but 4 other studios who were subcontracted to make the game. 343 if I’m not mistaken merely worked on the ui and some of the network coding. Ruffian games made one of the games in the collection and CA handled most of the mp portion.

TrueBlueHero: you’re a voice of reason in the wilderness. Thanks for posting this. It needed to be said.

The irony is undeniable…make a thread about negativity, lack of tolerance and the downplaying of 343i… first post does exactly that :smiley:

> 2533274793332039;9:
> The irony is undeniable…make a thread about negativity, lack of tolerance and the downplaying of 343i… first post does exactly that :smiley:

Lol so true

Word. Thank you. And exactly. The toxicity of the Halo community, really just of gaming culture in general, is so obnoxious and bad. I mean death threats to developers? Saying 343 employees should lose their jobs/die horrible deaths?
The amount of disrespect, entitlement, excessive hatred and negativity, aggressiveness, closed-mindedness, etc…it’s like everyone’s a sociopath.
Honestly it’s just a wide-ranging cultural problem more than anything.

This thread is a perfectly sad example of how awful these forums really are. An objectively mild post, saying “Hey everyone, let’s be rational and respectful” followed by an irrational and disrespectful first post. Apparently that’s just too radical of an idea for some. Hell, just look at the main page of the H5 forums, there might be one or two semi-positive threads amidst a sea of just vitriolic rubbish. The people offering constructive feedback and critique are the extreme minority.

> 2533274821269382;11:
> Word. Thank you. And exactly. The toxicity of the Halo community, really just of gaming culture in general, is so obnoxious and bad. I mean death threats to developers? Saying 343 employees should lose their jobs/die horrible deaths?
> The amount of disrespect, entitlement, excessive hatred and negativity, aggressiveness, closed-mindedness, etc…it’s like everyone’s a sociopath.
> Honestly it’s just a wide-ranging cultural problem more than anything.

i agree, lets be honest, there’s much more worthy victims of this behavior than game developers, justin beiber for example, or my boss at work.

> 2533274865708979;13:
> > 2533274821269382;11:
> > Word. Thank you. And exactly. The toxicity of the Halo community, really just of gaming culture in general, is so obnoxious and bad. I mean death threats to developers? Saying 343 employees should lose their jobs/die horrible deaths?
> > The amount of disrespect, entitlement, excessive hatred and negativity, aggressiveness, closed-mindedness, etc…it’s like everyone’s a sociopath.
> > Honestly it’s just a wide-ranging cultural problem more than anything.
>
>
> i agree, lets be honest, there’s much more worthy victims of this behavior than game developers, justin beiber for example, or my boss at work.

Well it’s one thing for people to be upset about a game they paid for in the MCC, it’s an entirely different thing to see how worked up some people get over a game that hasn’t even released. I just sit and wonder how little else goes on in some people’s lives that THIS is something worth getting angry at. Even with the horrible launch of MCC, the most upset I got was saying, “well screw this” and then go play another game or…gasp…do something else with my time!

Even as a dedicated “purist”, I do concur. Both sides do get carried away, which unfortunately, leads to nowhere.

I bought MCC back in November and to this day I can’t play online because for what ever reason my particular controller setting is not functioning on any of the H2A maps. I see this as a problem, a large problem infact, and one that warrents criticism and discussion.

I have been so discouraged with how toxic and rotten the community seemed to have become. But you my friend have given a bit of hope that I’m not the only one who can see reason and have a cool head.

Thank you.

This forum is by far the most toxic one I’ve been on. There is rarely any constructive criticism and people just use constant insults to bludgeon their message across. If you disagree with an opinion the responses are either “you must be really bad” or “you must a COD player”.

Can people not be civilised to each other here and debate their various points rather than screaming at each other?

> 2533274793332039;1:
> First things first: This isn’t the typical ‘If you don’t like H5 find yourself another game’ or ‘All you want is a Halo 2.5” post. I consider that rude/intolerant.
>
> All I want is to give a perspective on why I and others (I see a larger trend) are really unnerved as a result of the (in my perspective) excessive negativity in the H5 board.
> And no, as little as all critics are mindless haters/obstructionists all of these people are apologists or fanboys.
>
>
>
> 1. The tone. Some critics lack any form of respect. 343i is being portrayed as dishonest, malicious, money-mad and/or generally incompetent – H5 as some kind of monstrosity that does nothing of value.
>
> 2. Damage done to the franchise. With both H5 and 343i constantly being depicted in a very bad light there’s actual damage done to the brand that has no basis in reality. Even H4 (Metacritic 87%) is a (relatively) very good game, yet reading through some threads it’s saddening to see that other games of less quality get away just fine while some Halo ‘fans’ tear their own franchise apart.
>
> 3. Elitism. Instead of welcoming others to our beloved franchise a certain subgroup tries their best to scare newcomers away. There is a zero-tolerance policy regarding all kinds of changes that help people to get in touch with the series (Spartan callouts, ADS,…) and those people are blind to the fact that Halo is not the sole top FPS anymore.
>
> 4. Constant negativity in diverse dedicated discussion boards is a trend that goes far beyond the Halo Waypoint discussions boards. More and more people have a feeling that this ‘hate’ is getting out of hand as the Internet enables (among positive things) new forms of mob justice, overall harshness and cynicism.
>
> 5. Dedicated discussion boards are not a good representation of the whole (potential) H5 player population.
> Just a little thought experiment: If we (generously) assume that 10.000 Halo players regularly take part in dedicated discussions in diverse message boards all over the net that is about 0.11% (one tenth of one percent) of the whole population (average Halo sells: 9 million). Now if we take into consideration that this 0.11% is not a homogeneous group (there are very different opinions even among the most dedicated fans) and in no way a representative sample (there are whole subgroups of players that are not likely to post in discussion boards at all) the conclusiveness becomes even more limited.
> The problem is not the discussion per se, the problem is the mindset that the needs of a very small subgroup of players is equivalent to those of all Halo players (or the notion that this subgroup is the most important one).
> The resulting intolerance (‘true Halo’ – ‘true fan’) and the inevitable devaluation of others (‘incompetent 343’ – ‘only competitive players know what they are talking about’) is driving some people insane (which doesn’t mean that there isn’t a similar intolerance on the ‘other side’ too).
>
> 6. Constant negativity creates a vicious circle that has lots of bad side effects. It creates a climate of hostility within the community (just look at the threads in the H5 board) and between the community and the developer. It draws the attention to the things that don’t work which makes even small things seem huge while at the same time (subconsciously) devaluing positive aspects.
> Constant negativity leads to other people feeling bad about things they would have never considered themselves and the suppression of (true) joy and anticipation.
>
> 7. 343i is NOT Bungie and never will be. That is neither a positive nor a negative thing.
> In my perception the constant comparisons are profoundly unjust.
> Bungie had to start somewhere too and 343i is a developer that just formed.
> It was Bungie that left the Halo brand behind, accepting that is the first necessary step. I sometimes get the feeling that some fans are caught in some kind of posttraumatic stress syndrome.
> Expecting 343i (and thus H5) to be just like Bungie (or the previous Halo titles) is extremely unreasonable.
> H5 will have it’s own set of strengths and weaknesses – constantly measuring it by Bungie’s strengths can only lead to disappointment. Having to read that element X in H5 is not the same as element Y in H1-3 over and over again is getting really tiresome too.
>
>
>
> What I’ve tried to convey is that there is a difference between constructive and well-rounded criticism, constant negativity and hate.
>
> I know that beneath all the cynicism what really binds us is the love for Halo. So what we need in our H5 discussions is less hostility and more tolerance and overall respect.

OP this isn’t just a problem with H5 haters, there are also plenty of Halo 4 and 5 fanboys who basically started it by telling the veterans of the series to find a different game or adapt and they still do so now (funny enough they started crying about OP BRs in the older Halo games but this is what happens when a series jumps around literally EVERYWHERE, something 343 contributed to). Not saying the old guard are any better here as they stooped to those tactics with the MCC launch. There are people who ruin the community everywhere and I’m tired of all of them.

Everything you posted can go both ways in regards to haters and fanboys alike. Most threads now just devolve into petty arguments among factions.

Regarding the 343 things though you have to realize they don’t have the best track record. The Spartan in a wheelchair fiasco, basically telling those who called for balance and equal starts to more or less shove it and then balancing the game after 75% of the H4 population was gone. Playing the MCC to be this huge tribute to fans and then absolutely blowing it by outsourcing it so a bunch of companies who clearly weren’t paying attention due to the amount of oversights and the like and then failing to make a unified UI that worked (which was 343’s only real task with that game).

Yes some people are being really way too negative and they’re probably just jaded “nothing will be better than Halo 2!” People, but they aren’t the only people who are causing problems here.

> 2533274802746424;7:
> > 2535459330974836;5:
> > > 2533274882881665;3:
> > > > 2535441634768829;2:
> > > > Spartan in a wheelchair
> > > >
> > > > MCC launch
> > > >
> > > > At some point 343 just has to stop making huge blunders.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You make it sound like 343 were the only company to have a bad launch last year.
> >
> >
> >
> > only ones who havent fixed it
>
>
> Hence your post proving the op’s point. First off the MCC was a massive game to take on , 4 games in one vs a dev who made a single game. Second it in fact was not 343 who made the MCC but 4 other studios who were subcontracted to make the game. 343 if I’m not mistaken merely worked on the ui and some of the network coding. Ruffian games made one of the games in the collection and CA handled most of the mp portion.

I’m on board with this MCC was and is massive. When the devs did the God of War Saga on one disc, you had the option to launch one game at a time. MCC doesn’t have this. Its 4 engines going simultaneously at the same time plus network coding for 4 different games. That alone is a HUGE load on the game itself which I think the majority of people don’t understand.

I am also on board with the OP and honestly the attacking and sexism, discrimination and blunt rudeness needs to be quelled.