Tips for Forge (me) v Anders

Games Other Halo
1

Current build in maps with or without hooks/reactors is sp/1 turret/hog->sp/hog->reactor->sp/gunner->reactor->fortress->air pad->sp

Maintain 3-4 hogs to keep peppering her hogs and bring them back toward my turret

Basic strat is to keep her hog numbers low until I can get 2/3 hornets out then prevent any other unit producing structure to go up. Continue to produce hogs and hornets till gg.

However, even if I get that far, I don’t have a good transition into mid game AND if I prevent factory/air pad from going up, they bank the resources and drop Cryo on hornets.

Been playing this game since launch and I can’t see this match up being anything better than a 3-7 for Anders.

2

Hornets aren’t generally a good idea against anders as people playing her tend to go Gauss Hogs. Gauss Hogs > Hornets.

I find playing Arby against her works pretty well. By the time I’ve destroyed the local rebel bases, my thus 1* arby can halt her hog rushes. I then transition into banshees whilst getting my arby up to tech 2 rage.

6 banshees is enough to go harrass her base and 6+ banshees and arby is usually enough to destroy it.

The Cryo drop is a bit of a pain and a roll of the dice. I just circle my banshees as much as I can to minimise casualties from it.

3

Forge can hold his own against Anders on Release and Tundra, but has a harder time on hook maps.

For maps without hooks, you are correct by going hogs. Only build a turret if you aren’t making hogs, or if you are losing the hog war by a good amount. Reactor 3rd gunner is great, but make sure to hide your hogs if Anders gets early gunner (which she always will). Usually Anders will have more hogs than you, so you want to attack her hogs when she’s clearing out an expansion and catch her off guard. You can also face the hogs head on, but you need good micro. If she isn’t aggressive, clear out an expansion for yourself and take it. Always be aware if she is going quick grenadier because that can cost you the game if you aren’t prepared. I don’t recommend going hornets unless you’ve killed most of her hogs and she hasn’t scouted you. A single missile turret and some hogs can fight off your hornet/hog attack. Always go tanks as Forge. If you like to save your hogs, tanks+hogs is a good unit combo against Anders.

On hook maps, you want to go Barracks 1st or 2nd and make two marines (I add in 1 flamer on Chasms). I prefer Barracks 1st because the earlier you get your supply hook, the better. Anders has an advantage because she can go ‘barracks 1st better’. Basically, she can go barracks 1st while still producing hogs. However, Forge will be delayed in hogs for some time and must go Reactor 5th gunner. It is worth it though. Imagine if you go barracks 1st and an Anders goes barracks 3rd or 4th. You’ll have your supply hook for a whole 2 minutes before she does, which is a huge advantage and will help you get those hogs out quicker. The only thing you have to worry about is Anders trying to ram your infantry at the start of the game, which you can easily prevent by grenading the hogs and ramming them with your own hogs. You also want to aim for tanks on hook maps.

WATCH OUT FOR GREMLINS.
Hope this helps.

4

I think hornets are bad idea against Anders. If she wins the hog war then her hogs + scorpions are enough to shoot down small number of hornets. She also has a cryo bomb to make it even worse.

Her gremlins are really painful when used correctly. Generally it is better to have some gremlins and scorpions mixed than just pure scorpions. On small maps like Chasms and Pirth Outskirts RPG marines are good counter to gremlins.

As King Leonighdus told, you cannot go with same build on every map. Especially Blood River demands barracks first build. You should aim to take her supply hook first (if she does not go barracks first).

Anyway, good luck and have fun while learning.

5

hornets are terrible vs unsc in most cases, both because tanks in effect match hornets (ie, 1 tank micro’d will almost kill 2 hornet, because wolves can be built very easily, and because hogs do a very good job of moving + shooting under hornets.

If you build hornets, you generally need a gremlin and hog lead. If you stun + cyro the tanks, your hornets will not miss, and do a ton more damage, than vs micro’d tanks.

Gauss is also very inexpensive to research, and most unsc mirrors result in the gren upgrade. If the enemy is making hornets, i’d drop and extra 400 for gauss, and they’d be hard countered.

6

To OP, you will probably be better off building scorpions than hornets. Anders Cryo and Hogs will give your Hornets trouble. and if the map has hooks such as reactor or supply elevator you should consider barracks to capture them. if you do go tanks make sure you prevent the anders from getting as many gremlins as possible. your carpet should help with them.

7

All good stuff guys, thanks.

My biggest concern is Anders transferring to tanks/gremlins before I can get a critical number of tanks up.

For instance, Anders is winning hog war, but my first tank is out. I make a b line to Anders’ base to stop tanks getting up. First gremlin is out, while her factory is being built.

I don’t feel like Forge can apply enough damage before Anders can tank/gremlin spam and once that starts there is no good transition for Forge into the late game.

8

> All good stuff guys, thanks.
>
> My biggest concern is Anders transferring to tanks/gremlins before I can get a critical number of tanks up.
>
> For instance, Anders is winning hog war, but my first tank is out. I make a b line to Anders’ base to stop tanks getting up. First gremlin is out, while her factory is being built.
>
> I don’t feel like Forge can apply enough damage before Anders can tank/gremlin spam and once that starts there is no good transition for Forge into the late game.

It is often risky to try and stop Anders’ vehicle depot with your first tank - especially on larger maps. Once her first gremlin pops out, you’re in for trouble. It’s better to play defensively in the mid-game. If Anders is not aggressive, take that opportunity to get your 2nd base up and running. Forge is really strong on two bases. Stopping Anders’ 2nd base from going up is also huge - you want to deny it as long as possible in the early-game.

I normally lose late-game if I let Anders research chain amp. That upgrade is ridiculously helpful in tank battles and I end up losing. You want to make your push before Anders gets tech 4. Forge’s economy is ridiculous on two bases so you shouldn’t have trouble making a strong push in the late-game.

Making a couple cobras could also really help with support, but I don’t recommend making them unless you know what you’re doing. They suck if they aren’t positioned correctly.

9

I don’t really agree with the defensive option. It still leaves me without a transition. The purpose of getting the first tank out is to push bag the hogs and take the initiative. If I turn defensive instead, it gives her time to either upgrade supply pads, tech up to gremlins and tanks or go and take a second. None of which is a good idea.

There has to be a better transition into the mid game once you get the tanks up to reapply pressure or go push out and expand yourself.

If anyone wants to test some stuff out let me know.

10

Hi Jelli u(forge) play vs me (anders) and u win bacause I did not was aggressive (I like turtle when I have time)
I think that with aggresive player u have their hogs in base that destroy your depot

If you go with one thank in base to anders probably u find 7/8 hogs with granadier
and ur scorpion have a slow turret
I don’t think u kill someting

I think it is better way a mid game
but I can tell u how survive to gremlins
:slight_smile:

giammi73

11

> I don’t really agree with the defensive option. It still leaves me without a transition. The purpose of getting the first tank out is to push bag the hogs and take the initiative. If I turn defensive instead, it gives her time to either upgrade supply pads, tech up to gremlins and tanks or go and take a second. None of which is a good idea.
>
> There has to be a better transition into the mid game once you get the tanks up to reapply pressure or go push out and expand yourself.
>
> If anyone wants to test some stuff out let me know.

On Release and Tundra, Forge has two options. He can either go for an early push with around 8-10 grenadier hogs and his first 1-2 tanks or he can turtle up, expand and play defense.

The grenadier/tank attack will punish any Anders who tries expanding early and also can do well vs an Anders who goes hornets/gremlins off one base. However, Anders can counter this build by making tanks/gremlins. You will most likely win or lose with this attack, as it is very hard to transition out of it if it fails.

Your other option is to play defense with just a few hogs and get a tank out quickly. Research tech 3 ASAP, clear out a base and defend it with cobras/tanks/wolves (whatever you need to counter them). Cobras are needed to keep your second base alive, since just tanks and wolves won’t be enough to stop 2 base gremlins and hornets. You can turtle up for a while, but you should move out and try to attack their expansion before they get chain amp.

12

Personally I prefer to go early Hornets against Anders if I think I stand a chance of winning (by early scouting, etc), because its the least likely thing to do against Anders. Simply drop a disruption bomb just before you start attacking a base and you’ve got about 1.5 mins to do some serious damage. Even if you have to pull back, you can use whatever hornets you have left to clear hook or base sites, while you switch to vehicles or infantry.

13

Hornets and serious dmg should not be in the same sentence in my opinion. Hornets are an all around bad idea against UNSC for reasons mentioned before. I have luck doing somewhat what BB suggested. I do not build hogs. I go three HSPs build a turret opposite those then go R R (Fortress) VD. Your turret will not be able to defend the HSPs but you have two options. You can either do criss cross turrets which will slow down that first tank, or if she only goes a few hogs she will most likely pull off and try to clear an expo, if not she may/may not kill one pad. When you get the first tank out priority is expo if she has cleared one. You can easily take it out. The situation from here is scouting. You may choose to buy the base she cleared, or if she is switching straight to a depot which most will you can risk expanding or just keep building tanks. I personally like to try the expo and get a rail gun turret up and you can have around 3 tanks +rail gun turret + a well timed carpet if necessary to defend with. If you can defend there you win. If it goes wrong you lose. You can also just pull of the expo to your own base and get canister shell asap after 5-6 tanks. From this point it is all scouting dependent/map dependent on what should happen, but that is the best suggestion I have. The alternative…play anders or cutter even as both have distinct advantages on certain maps. Forge has release/tundra where he is maybe slightly ahead if played well. Hook/expo maps though the odds are stacked against you from the start. GL

14

it really depends on the playstyle of the anders player. Ive noticed quite a few 1v1s where anders is starting to do infantry rushes again, but it depends if you’re going against a hog player or an infantry player. I kind of agree with an earlier post that says to build a barracks early on hook maps, but probably not first, probably second. I probably wouldn’t get into a hog battle because normally anders is going to have more hogs and a much quicker gunner than forge just based on the steep differences in opening build costs, anders pays half the price for gunner and less than half to get each of her pads up. Normally if I play against a hog rushing anders, and ive scouted and KNOW for a fact shes going hogs, Id build one turret within the first minute, and if you see more than 5 hogs after around 4 minutes build another turret on the opposite corner so you can cover the whole base and go for tanks. Gauss would wreck hornets, but the only thing you have to watch out for is gremlins. If you kept your barracks I’d just pump out a few marines and keep them handy to RPG any gremlins because they have really weak armor. but as far as early game goes I’d rather spend 500 on turrets than 150 (hog)+250 (gunner) and end up with only two hogs including the starter hog. Hogs just take too much money as forge its just better to go tanks.
also if you need to go take out a base early, the best way I’ve found to get out early tanks is to go 3sp 2 reactors and vehicle depot then the last pad. in 1v1 it’ll get an early tank out in about 3.5 minutes. by then if they scout they could have a gremlin out so I’d just take it to get an expansion. because if you hold an expansion as forge, and you can keep the anders busy long enough to get that econ advantage, your production will be much better than hers. worst case scenario vs anders is facing gauss double pump early. so just try to keep her expansions down and you’ll be golden

15

As an Anders player myself I will let you into a little secret. Forge is definitely my nemesis in 1v1 when in the hands of a competent player. He can make Warthogs at the same pace as an Anders player although he can’t get the upgrades as quickly. As well as this, he can also build turrets on his base and get a VD up quicker than Anders. This makes for a very potent combination.

Obviously each map should be played differently but I’ll start with the non-hook maps (Tundra and Release). Forge should aim to make Warthogs up until he has at least got a vehicle depot. Anything less than this means that he is open to Anders’ early Grenadier attack (5 hogs: SP, SP, R, R). You may think that this build order is not do-able but believe me, it is, and has been used to destroy countless numbers of Forge players in the past.

Whilst making the hogs, you also need at least one turret with anti-vehicle. If Anders goes early Grenadier then you should be able to push her off your base as you have an extra hog and an upgraded turret. Once she is off the base then you should be way ahead of her and should have no problems producing tanks to kick her -Yoink-.

If Anders doesn’t go with the early Grenadier then you will still have more money than her. Keep producing the Warthogs but try to go early Canny on your tanks (after having built 2 or 3 of them) and then downtech. This will hurt Anders, even if she has a whole bunch of Gremlins, hogs and tanks. Remember, Anders will always be behind Forge financially in the mid-game which means that it will take longer for her to get to Canny. This is the point where you need to attack her. She will stun your tank(s) but remember that you have also got an army of Warthogs which can kick their -Yoinks!- once the stun has been used and there’s also the Carpet Bomb.

You must also know when to expand and also when to attack her expansion. The Carpet Bomb is excellent at destroying a base with no pads or nearly destroying one which has one pad built. Check her points on the menu screen in order to see when she is clearing the base and then use it when the base has been built. Forge should start taking down his expansion when his first tank comes out.

On maps which have hooks I would say that going barracks first or second is feasible but you really need to watch out for early gunner hogs as they could ruin your day. Because Chasms is such a small map, you need to watch out for Reactor first gunners (I do this all the time against UNSC on this map). The hogs will definitely kick the -Yoink- of any marines that head towards the supply hooks and you will lose the advantage that you hoped to gain by going barracks first or second.

In Blood River you need to go barracks first every time. If Anders goes reactor-first hogs in order to attack your marines then you need to ram her hogs with your gunner-less hogs while at the same time using your marines to throw grenades at them. If Anders doesn’t go early gunner but still decides to ram your marines then do the same as above (it will be easier this time).

In Barrens you need to go Reactor first as any decent Anders player will be doing the same. When your second hog is made, upgrade to gunner but keep your hogs away from hers until they are upgraded, then attack. If she didn’t go for the reactor first gunner hogs then you get to kick her -Yoink- while returning to the middle in order to be healed for free. Just keep picking her hogs off one by one until you outnumber her and have full control of the reactor hooks and bases. If she did go reactor first then you are about even with her and will have a fun game. Remember when going Reactor first, you can always cancel the Reactor once you have started researching gunner in order to get more cash for your next hog.

On Pirth you are bound to lose but it’s always good to try. The main tactic is to attack Anders’ expansion with hogs. Any decent Anders player would lock both bases down in order to build hogs, hogs and hogs. For the first couple of minutes you are in the driver’s seat as you have been able to make hogs from the start. Going reactor first will allow you to attack her base earlier which puts her under more pressure to do something, earlier. The downside of this is that while you are attacking her expansion, her two hogs can collect all of the money around the map. Going reactor second is most people’s usual choice. Keep building hogs and keep attacking her expansion while remembering to build an expansion of your own when you have the money. This is usually the point where Anders opens both of her bases up in order to release all of the hogs that she has been making this whole time. If you are playing against someone decent then this is usually the time to get the hell out of there as she will have ensured that she has more hogs than you. Now you need to defend your expansion while getting a barracks up in order to take your reactor and research Grenadier for your hogs. From this point things can go in any direction. You need to be building hogs, RPG marines and tanks in order to counter all that Anders has to offer. If you get to this point without losing then good job and enjoy the rest of the game.
Hope this helps.