"Time Splay + Warp" Travel for Precursors

I think I know how the Precursors can travel so far. I mean over distances of galaxys or (may be) even from one filament to an other.

We all know the hyperroom travel. In Halo there were a lot of these “jumps”. (I also think we saw a lot of different methods to warp the room, but nvm:
Slipspace, Hyperroom and so on.)

But all of these “jumps” mean: to warp the room:
Means the units between the room units get compressed if you travel. I think a lot of ppl know that.
So if you drive with like 500,000 km/h and use “warp”: the room gets compressed and you reach overlight speed. (Hyperroom is similar, but means to “overjump” the border of the room, if I understand it right. That’s why forerunner hyperroom/warp is a lot of faster than the human or covenant one.)

Now the problem is: how to get faster? ( … in StarTrek they use “transwarp” - but that means also: the spaceship might get crunched and/or burned by its own gravity engine) AND: the power levels get insane. – Also we have had this idea already somewhere. :stuck_out_tongue:

I ask myself: how to get faster?
Would be useful for the Precursors in Halo.
So I came to the idea: what about splaying/straching the time units if you travel? Not only compressing the room - no: you splay the time units between your way, too. So not 10 seconds elapse, no: 0.000010 seconds might elapse (in “real time”/ external time.
I call that "Time Splaying"2

~

So example for:
traveling over 5 parsec (~ 3.26 lightyears)

with normal engines (500.000km/h - would mean around 138.888 m/s):
7,04 years

with room warping engines (iam usig (star trek scala WP: 5.01) = ca. 110x lightspeed):
0.064 years = so less than one month (- ca. 0.7 months)

with room warping engines AND chrono/time splayer (means WP: 5,0 like before + TS (TIME SPLAY) of a factor around 200 (= means one second will be 0,005 seconds in realtime → and that means: you travel in one second 200x the distance of one second!):
0.000332 years = so around 0.0038 months = 0.11 days … or only 2.7 hours

~

Sure I don’t know about the “warp factor” (or the other room effects of all the hyperroom methods). But mixing these ‘engines’ with “time splayers” might enlarge their effect.
Also: because of the fact: we know less over time splaying than room warping the energy levels might be very small - especially for the precursors.

So if they have a hyperroom of 50000x lightspeed (= in star trek (new warpscala3) it is already transwarp) and a “time splay” of 100000 - well, the precursors would laugh over the distances in our galaxy / or between some galaxys).

Iam not a good mathematician and I dunno how fast the warp/hyperroom engines in Halo are. But I think the precursors need something new and fresh.
I also have had the idea to make the Precursors manipulating time (like chronoweapons). So why not adding this to their hyperroom travel? It would be very very effective.
Especially if we want to leave or dull galaxy and travel along the filaments to other galaxys.

Footnote(s)
1http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Warptable.gif
2The term “Time Splay [TS-Factor]” is mine; but I don’t want to protect or copyright it - its free (for users and 343/Microsoft - but not other scifiy makers !). :stuck_out_tongue: But if anyone knows a better idea to call this effect iam open for this term, too. (To be exactly: I don’t care =p)
3see footnote #1

They probably travel so far because they were advanced and invested in the technology.

Right now, SaintMartyrG1rl, we don’t know what Precursors were like, or what what their technology is as 343i has given us so little details on it. All we know is from The Primordial.

Meanwhile all the things you said, it can be possible but it may be also be possible that the Precursors had found out a way to travel on far distances. You also have to consider that they were Tier 0 species, as their structures were said to be million years more advanced, far more durable, as was stated by Bornstellar, that the Precursor structures were durable enough to be moved around undamaged in the planet’s crust as it changes.

Also if I remember right, in Halo: Cryptum, Ur-Didact stated that the Precursor structures were only destroyed by Halo, due to their harmonic frequency properties.

So therefore, it is possible that the Precursors had found a way to mitigate this issue, allowing their ships to move so quick, without any damage to the hulls of their ships, or to the shielding. Even then, I’m interested in how they travelled.

Interesting. One thing is that we don’t know how fast the Precursors were supposed to travel, so we don’t know if they would need the time-warping procedure, or if they could travel fast enough in Slipspace alone. It’s not out the question, though; we know so very little about the Precursors.

I remember in a novel, Halo: First Strike, there was a Forerunner Crystal that had a time-warping properties. It’s a shame that Cpl. Locklear died destroying that crystal with the explosive. Although it’s to prevent the radioactive spike.

If Forerunners made that crystal, then I’m guessing Forerunners may had based this from Precursor technology, although it is also likely that although Forerunner’s ability to traverse the galaxy faster than any present factions (UNSC,Covenant, as noted by the Didact’s Dreadnaught and the Keyship) they MAY be slow compared to the Precursors. I remember Precursors have the ability to travel to other galaxies.

My theory is that they “bring” space to them. For example: they take one point of space and they bring the location to them without disturbing it’s already set position in the universe… Baisacally they fold the opposite side of the paper so that it’s nearly touching.

I have had this idea-add-on: If the Precursor-Ships would use something like ‘Time Splay “engines”’ to make their ships faster.
==>
They also could use them in “the opposite direction”.
I mean: make the elapsing time on their ships realy realy slow if they are in orbit of a world.
So they would have nearly endless time in their ships. Very useful in military situations: because you have (nearly) endless time to think over strategies or decissions. Or produce new vehicles, weapons, ammo etc. pp.

Or MC could kill all of the prosecutors in their ship and in “real time” only 1 second elapses. :stuck_out_tongue:

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I know that “time” is a thing which is realy hard to to handle, especially if we talk over “story telling”.
(… even a lot of the liberal and futuristic Star Trek Fans get very fast overstrained, if there is a big “time-factor” in a storyline - and then: they might start to hate a story).

Well, I think we should not go back in time with the MC … or something like that. That: Would be only “uncool”. Especially in a Halo-Storyline.
(I think: Halo has more art than other scifi storylines, too. So we shouldn’t overpush the science factor at all. If you know what I mean.)

So I keep the time thing on the points of:
‘going fast’ (Engines of a Starship)
[and]
‘destroying something with a cool effect’ (Weapons).

The other time-effects like slowing down the time or even going back in it … well I dunno if they would fit very good. Halo isn’t the place for this - if you ask me.
Exept having a level in a precursor ship (you play like 30 minutes) - then you go out in a cutscene and … oh wonder: in realtime only 1 second elapsed.
→ That would be kinda cool and would still fit. It would show that Halo can work with time, too. But without making the story to complex without any need.

Ya … : I would keep the focus on cool time weapon effects and fast spaceships. And to show how fast they are we should leave our galaxy and fly along the filaments far away to an other galaxy. :stuck_out_tongue:

~

Btw: Some of your ideas/comments are kinda cool, too. I only hope that the ppl of 343 appreciate our thoughts. :stuck_out_tongue:

> My theory is that they “bring” space to them. For example: they take one point of space and they bring the location to them without disturbing it’s already set position in the universe… Baisacally they fold the opposite side of the paper so that it’s nearly touching.

Sounds a bit like the String Theory - or even the M-Theory for me. Would be cool, if we have a nice gfx effect for this kind of “jump”.

Well, the paper thing could also be working like a “normal” wormwhole.

~

I like Halo because Halo isn’t only scifi and science. It is more like making art with all this stuff … and mixing it with art (- like great pictures (landscapes for example) and good music).

I just want to say: … good idea, too :stuck_out_tongue:

You are under the assumption that the Precursors wanted to travel between galaxies at speeds that take little time compared to our lifespans. For all we know they used the same FTL that the Forerunners used, but where quite happy to take hundreds if not thousands of years to get to the other galaxy. We have no idea what the Precursors technology was capable of, besides lasting for millions of years without any kind of corrosion. Heck we don’t know enough about them as a species, they may not die of natural causes like we do, they may continue to live until they are killed by unnatural causes and for a species like that time may not be a big deal for them.

Just throwing it out there, everyone seems to think that an advanced species should have technology that makes thing faster and stronger because that’s how we do things. A truly alien species may be much more patient and willing to wait hundreds or thousands of years to reach their destination.

It was stated by Bornstellar-Didact that the Primordial was made to “last billion years” before activating the reverse time-lock that killed him. While I’m certain Precursors had far longer lifespan than both Forerunners and prehistoric humanity, but SaintMartyrG1rl’s theory may make sense, as well as Vex’s if they had projects to do and had deadlines to finish. I mean Precursors DID seed the galaxy with life.

Nevertheless, so many possibilities!

Considering that the Forerunners already manipulated time to further enhance their slipspace travel, its plausible to assume an even more advanced race mastered that technology beyond the Forerunner’s understanding of it.

I only hope H5 will have some new of … of this stuff we talk about in this thread :p.

I realy love Halo 4’s lightweapons. Epic.

Hope in H5 will be more and different stuff: including new weapon categories
and vehicles.
Also locations (my favorite topic) = new landscapes and new places (I personaly rly rly rly want to leave our galaxy - as you can see =p)

  • great cutscenes with cool effects which look cool, too.

~

But what I wanted to add: If we have Space Combat/Space Dogfight: it would be realy cool to make a hyperroom jump, flying through a wormhole (not portal style :p), using slipspace/slipstream, or use some kind of room warp engine.

Even if it would be only a cutscene (or fighting during you are in a moving “warp-bubble”*) it would be very epic, if you ask me. Cuz you do it on your own. (“Press X to activate Hyperroom Jump Engine” + not som many camera jumps)

*with “warp bubble” i mean: the fighters are in an 3 dimensional bubble and you can dogfight like in normal space: only the design of the skybox is altered. Similar to H4 (Midnight at the beginning - didacts ship was in hyperoom).
So it would be some kind of dynamic space dogfighting level!
Also flight dynamics could change during you are in hyperspace/warp/slipspace or normal space … depends.

=p =p

… just an other idea. .p

Given that Halo 5 will show up on xbox 720, your idea may be possible, thanks to the increased power :D. Also… This just made me wanna try out the gameplay that you just suggested, SaintMartyrG1rl… So awesome… Although Obstacles would be nice. Make it realistic say we avoid asteroids WHILE we fight, or make our enemies RUN into the asteroids.

… or hunting a ship with warp/slipspace or with hyperrooom engines would be funny.

I mean as small change if you are in space dogfights. (or similar)

With the next generation console they should be able to create nice room-expansion/room-compaction effects.

… hunting one ship from one galaxy to the second would be funny, too … but we need precursor tech for this large distances … :stuck_out_tongue:

Thinking over grafic-effects and so on brings me to an other idea:

Personal Shields for Precursors

I call them: room expansion shields.

Imagine our 3D room in a 2D line; so a black hole would be like you pick your finger on a gumstring … a bit like this:

----v----

Now imagine the same line not with a picked hole but with a plateau that rises; like this:

/-_

(to bad iam very limited in signs ><)

The guy who is protected stands in the middle of the ‘subroom-plateau’.
It means the 10cm around him (where his shields are) are not 10cm … they are more like 900000 parsec / or millions of miles.
Everything, each projectile, plasma projectile, explosions and even light wouldn’t reach the protected precursos-guy. The projectiles might form a line, because they are compressed in our room (enlarged in the room of the shields).

Also the time could run in this area very fast … so each projectile would just disappear. (exept some projectiles, they might get ‘free’ if the shields colapse again > and make more dmg :p). Depends how fast the time runs and what happens ‘after’ it in the metaroom.

The result: the precursor stands around. You can fire on him what you want … and nothig reaches him. A missile flies to him … it nearly reaches him … but then the missile gets thin and disappears. Room Expansion Shield.

If we talk over gameplay (and have to make it more balanced/a bit unrealistic but why not): the shields could be limited in their ability to suck particles (subatomic particles) in their endless room. So after to many hits the precursors shields fall. (fastfireweapons would be definitive more useful here :p).
Also any “caught” projectiles (not plasma weapon projectiles) might get “free” and hit the precursor in the moment his shields fall (sure, with weaker dmg).

… I just came to this idea because I thought of gfx-effects for the next gen.
And for color effects: the precursor should look grey as long he is shielded. Would be logical, if the (artificial) light that runs through the shieldarea is very small in its spectre. But iam not a gfx-specialist :stuck_out_tongue: its just an other idea…

Reading this Your awesomeness has just suddenly arose, like a mountain pushing through a fertile plains in a short time that I’ve read your posts. O_O

> Reading this Your awesomeness has just suddenly arose, like a mountain pushing through a fertile plains in a short time that I’ve read your posts. O_O

=p lol - whut?! =þ =Þ

> > My theory is that they “bring” space to them. For example: they take one point of space and they bring the location to them without disturbing it’s already set position in the universe… Baisacally they fold the opposite side of the paper so that it’s nearly touching.
>
> Sounds a bit like the String Theory - or even the M-Theory for me. Would be cool, if we have a nice gfx effect for this kind of “jump”.
>
> Well, the paper thing could also be working like a “normal” wormwhole.
>
> (…)

Well, I thought a lot over the way “how the precursors can bring the room to them” - I mean not with a wormhole or portal. This only means make a tunnel through the hyperroom (or subroom - that would be transwarp or slipspace if I am correct).

But now I found a way. A lot of theory in it … and it is not easy - but I will try to explain it.

Well 1st in the string and m-theory is said: there are more than 3 dimensions of room(/time) - and (for example) the big bang was created because some strings or membranes moving through some dimensional areas. So the universe expanded because some other dimensions “pull” it.

Also we have all these quantum stuff in the other dimensions left.
I mean the thing with: there are endless different realitys in our universe - quantum based - and all are real - just: not “here” at the moment.
(If you modify a quantum particle and it has a “twin particle” the effect will be transfered from one particle to the other - immediately. Faster than light - may be useful for communication systems over LONG distances // this can be, because quantum particles don’t need only one place to exist. A particle can have two places where it is at the same time).

Well … and:
It is not only the question if you go left now or right - for each time unit exist endless different realitys.

So now the precursors need to find a way to “mix” these quantum realitys in a defined room and a defined time. So they have to control a lot of the dimensions (not only room (our 3 dimensions) + time // no: the alterned quantum realitys, too.)
In the end they will bring target-room and target-time to them, by using a altered quantum-reality in which they are there at the moment in the right time (because there are endless quantum-realitys = everything exists).
In the end the reality is doing what the precursors want to do. And that would be useful to travel, too.

Example :p:
2 precursors want to travel from ‘reach’ to ‘earth’. They don’t fly, don’t use hyperroom or a wormhole - no.

It would be a bit like this:
They jump in their “ship”. Then their “engines” start “to search”(/or generate) a quantum-reality in the right time (so the current time) where both precursor guys are in their current ship and near ‘earth’ - not near ‘reach’.
Then they do the quantum-reality-jump [I call it hyperquantum-jump].
Because there are endless quantum levels, but only one in which we “live active” the precursors disappear near ‘reach’ and appear near ‘earth’.
Also they could changed their ships color from black to blue and add some better seats with this technique. =p
A cool way to travel. Incluning the possibilty to travel back in time.

The thing is: they need to create a “interquantum”-search-field/or manipulation-field AND a “hyperquantum-jump”.
The first thing would use … well I dunno how much tons of pure energy :stuck_out_tongue: > because they need to create a small quantum-singularity (a supermassive black hole might be enaugh - but noone knows :p).
The “hyperquantum-jump” would eat even more energy - because their ship would be desubatomized w/o energy that stabilizes all dimensions. And they need the energy to “Push” the ship through the reality-rift, too. Oh and don’t forget the big-hyperquantum-singularity for the ship.

~

Well, they could still use this technic - but they need a whole galaxy as power station to refill their energy tanks :p.
I mean this literary - may be the precursors have something like that somewhere.
But I strongly think: they need other ways to travel aswell.

May be … in realy special cases or emergencys they will use this hyerquantum-jump (like a normal spaceship needs to use hyperroom; or even less).

~

The thing is: that time don’t plays a big role if you use this hyperquantum-jump technology. Also you could change things in a reality.
>
So for a storyline in Halo:
I would say: add some obstacle: so changing to many things or driving back in time would use more energy for the hyperquantum-jump. So MC has to avoid that precursors gain to much energy somehow - or they make him disappear :frowning: .

But the thing that they might drive back in time could also mean: if precursors arrive: they want to do something important > to change the (“active”) timeline. So MC needs to dubble his efforts - so they drive back in time for nothing if you are finished with them :p.
Nice energy waste for precursors, too. XD

(I personaly think that timedrives won’t fit in Halo.)

~

An other problem with the hyperquantum-jump is the ECS (“End of ChronoSphere”). If time has a start (and may be an end) you could quasi jump out of our timesphere. That’s a problem because noone knows what’s up with physics there.

But it is may be the place where the precursors hide atm =p.

They might use an outpost there, that generates the same dimensions as we have in our reality.
Why?
Because we could play as MC and destroy their outpost. And before it blows and fades away in the endchronosphere > MC needs to hijack a precursor fighter and get back into our reality/universe/world with a hyperquantum-jump.


Whew* - that is the most complexe idea I ever wrote down here. And I dunno how to add it good in a Halo storyline. 

Well: the hyperquantum-jump could be used for precursor ships as secondary (fast) engine. For primary engines I prefer the 'time splay-warp drive'-combination. :p

Also the fact that they hide in the ECS (so out of our universe's "membrane"/reality) could be used. Sure, in more simple forms. 
Only reachable with a precursor ship with hyperquantum-jump engines. 
Nothing more needs to be known if we talk over tactics :p

The fact of manipulating realitys with the "engine" and driving back in time should not be used: reason: - to much energy needed ... 
or the risk of "damaging our universes sphere" + a feedback that would damage the precursor ship/ or its engine. Well: it is not total random. &gt; having an "acitve stream" in our quantum reality also could mean the chronosphere has something like a ... how to say it ... "defence system" (hidden in phyiscal parameters).
... and then their quantumjump-engines get overheated =p

~

I realy want to leave our galaxy and travel to other galaxys :p. 

But out in the ECS - some kind of "nullroom"? 
Must be dark there ... or not? How looks it if there is no room and no time outside? 
Also the question: are there more "worlds" out there? And can you see them somehow if you look outside? :p
And can you reach them with hyperquantum-jumps or do we need something even bigger - like: hyperchronosphere-jumps?.

[oh ... too bad iam not allowed to share some answers]

Whew ... things get fast overcomplexe here.
But it needs to be very complexe if the lazy precursors want to bring the room to them. =p