Seems as though almost every single thread here is exclusively dedicated to the multiplayer aspect of Halo. I for one never got into Halo for it’s multiplayer, but rather for its campaign and co-op play, so here is a little thread dedicated to people who can appreciate the campaign and discuss it in a proper manner.
Feel free to post whatever you want, but lets leave story speculation behind please. The other 0.001% of posts that aren’t “RETurN of BR!?” and “I THINK HALO SHOULD HAVE” - followed by a list the size of the wall of China (ironic, I know), are most discussions about the storyline.
As for gameplay, what I would like to see (and not see):
Less linearity. Walking through corridors is fine, but it absolutely needs to be broken up by large areas where tactical freedom exists. Don’t force me to drive a tank across a huge bridge. Rather, give me a large space, with many targets capable of blowing me to bits and its up to me to choose who I neutralize first, and whether I would even want a tank considering how much slower it move. This is what made CE so damn good.
Megabattles! If you don’t know what megabattles are, your missing out. Essentially, its letting a whole lot of enemies consolidate in one area before you go and take them on. This makes for ridiculously fun and heart racing gameplay (on higher difficulties) as enemies rush down your throat in large numbers and you are forced to think quickly rather than hide behind a box, shoot a plasma bolt and then run back. T&R in CE was a great example. Reach on the other hand had bad examples of this (attempted poorly)
MAKE IT DIFFICULT. Look, most derps in this town are going to pick this game up, fly through the campaign then jump online. That’s fine, but give everyone else a challenge. I hate to use CE as another example (but show me another Halo game which does it), but remember when elites would rush your position? Where did that go? When did they suddenly become so happy to stand back 100 feet and exchange shots with you? The enemy AI needs to be smarter, and the levels more more of a challenge overall.
3.1.0. More health on an enemy =/= more challenging. It becomes a practice in redundancy. You shoot an elite 20 times in the head with a DMR rather than 10 times. Where is the fun in that? Make the AI more aggressive, or make MORE of them rather than increasing their health by ridiculous amounts.
Set pieces. For the love of God stop listening to Joseph Staten’s limited catchphrase. We don’t want 30 seconds of fun. We want all the game to be fun. This concept was butchered over and over with ridiculously short sighted set pieces that amounted to nothing. Set pieces that work are open ones: getting the banshees in TB in CE, the gondolas in H2, destroying the AA tanks in H3. Stop forcing set pieces down our throats. Give us a battle in which we can use a hornet, but don’t make that the only way we can do it…
Finally. I was beginning to think that there wasn’t anyone else that was hyped for this game because of the storyline and campaign.
I agree with your points. Another thing is level repetition. Halo has a bad habit of making you walk through the same part of a level several times. Especially Halo 3. I’d like to see good level design that doesn’t have a ton of back tracking and repetition.
I’m glad you started this thread, and I agree with everything you said. I’m going to think it over and post my own ideas (and more detailed reactions to yours) a little later.
It seems like every thread, no matter what it’s intent, boils down to “Reach’s multilayer is terrible.” Please people, don’t turn this thread into another “rage against Reach” outlet. There are already so many threads made for specifically that.
> Another thing is level repetition. Halo has a bad habit of making you walk through the same part of a level several times. Especially Halo 3. I’d like to see good level design that doesn’t have a ton of back tracking and repetition.
I don’t mind backtracking here and there as long as it adds to the sense of exploration and doesn’t bring the pace to a halt. Then again, I am a huge “Metroidvania fan.”
I definitely don’t mind a little back tracking, I just don’t want to do it 3 times in one level, you know? Bigger environments would definitely help with exploration. From the concept art, I’m guessing that there will be a lot of exploration opportunities.
I was gonna make this thread myself eventually. I’m looking forward to the campaign as I am the multiplayer. I also got into Halo through the campaign rather than the multiplayer.
> Finally. I was beginning to think that there wasn’t anyone else that was hyped for this game because of the storyline and campaign.
>
> I agree with your points. Another thing is level repetition. Halo has a bad habit of making you walk through the same part of a level several times. Especially Halo 3. I’d like to see good level design that doesn’t have a ton of back tracking and repetition.
I too need to think about what I hope there will be in the campaign, but if I post it now it will probably be the same thing that’s been said over and over and over again…
> 3. MAKE IT DIFFICULT. Look, most derps in this town are going to pick this game up, fly through the campaign then jump online. That’s fine, but give everyone else a challenge. I hate to use CE as another example (but show me another Halo game which does it), but remember when elites would rush your position? Where did that go? When did they suddenly become so happy to stand back 100 feet and exchange shots with you? The enemy AI needs to be smarter, and the levels more more of a challenge overall.
>
> 3.1.0. More health on an enemy =/= more challenging. It becomes a practice in redundancy. You shoot an elite 20 times in the head with a DMR rather than 10 times. Where is the fun in that? Make the AI more aggressive, or make MORE of them rather than increasing their health by ridiculous amounts.
This. So much.
I’ve said this exact thing before. Increasing the health of enemies by a billion percent does not make it “Legendary” worthy. It’s super tedious and frustrating. Constantly shooting in the head and feeling like you’re wasting ammo is frustrating.
I’ve always wanted the definite Halo “Experience” like in the novels. Plasma shots would severely injure a Spartan II/III bringing them to their knees while to kill a elite would require just a little less than a full round of AR bullets. Sadly, with the given difficulties, there isn’t really a way to go around this. Rather, you’re stuck between a difficulty where super weak enemies barely leave a scratch on you and bullet sponge enemies that take forever to kill.
I also agree with the rushing aspect, it always intensified close quarter battles in CE when elites would come at you while you took cover. Halo 3 also had this with the brutes. I just feel for some reason Reach’s enemies AI are more defensive in a way which is also frustrating. We’re supposed to be the ones running away and taking defense.
ODST’s style of openness was amazing, and that speaks for itself.
I really hope they don’t overlook the Campaign aspect, since this is a new trilogy, I’m imagining it’s going to emphasize a lot on building the foundations for the rest of the trilogy. Can’t wait.
Thanks for the responses guys, but just as I suspected, after 9 responses, the thread has fallen to the bottom of the second page, overrun my mindless threads all concerning multiplayer.
I really, really hope they don’t detract from the single player experience just for multiplayer, which I am quite terrified they might do. I have faith in 343 until they prove me wrong.
just to add my 2 cents: I believe this would be the Reclaimer trillogy, so I think it to be highly unlikely to encounter anymore covanent. even now the war is over. so we should be thinking about forerunner/sentinel enemies
> I whole heartedly agree, especially with the parts 3 and 3.1.
Seems as though we finally agree on something
I want to add another thing regarding difficulty. Have a look at Halo 2. Halo 2 had a single glaring aspect of broken gameplay that increased its difficulty 10 fold. Jackal snipers who can one shot you and have super accuracy did in no way increase the fun, or difficulty. It just made the game overly frustrating and seemed like a pretty poor design choice.
Who remembers sniper alley? Now let me ask you, do you remember it because of the incredible fun you had, or do you remember it because it was one of the most frustrating portions of the game in legendary? Challenge =/= memorizing the spots of every jackal sniper so that when you respawn you can kill them.
I didn’t mind the H3 jackal snipers as much. They couldn’t one shot you and they had the little light thing to give them away. But I would rather snipers are included within the big group of baddies to fight rather having their own sections. Those were just criminally short sighted game designs Bungie made. I don’t think anyone really enjoyed the obligatory sniper v. sniper sections. Make them an actual opponent rather than a set piece.
I don’t want 50 elites charging me when I’m low on health. I don’t want them to see me leave cover far away when I need to flank them. I’m fighting actual beings with limited intelligence, not the Terminator.
> Agreed, but just one thing I want to point out:
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> Smarter =/= better
>
> I don’t want 50 elites charging me when I’m low on health. I don’t want them to see me leave cover far away when I need to flank them. I’m fighting actual beings with limited intelligence, not the Terminator.
This did happen in legendary CE alot though. It is most noticeable in the level Halo, if you want to see for yourself how it works, but basically it’s purpose is to force you into a fight rather than the gun play continuing being a long range affair that the elite can never win. It adds a degree of challenge that we so desperately need, especially in legendary (the difference between Heroic and Legendary in CE is rather huge).
If you want to recharge your shields and rethink your strategy, you should move back further away from the encounter. Having elites docile whilst you put bullets in their head from affair is no challenge.
I believe that the higher the difficulty, the more enemies you face and the more aggressive they are, rather than just doubling their health which Reach deemed fine to do.
> > I whole heartedly agree, especially with the parts 3 and 3.1.
>
> Seems as though we finally agree on something
>
> I want to add another thing regarding difficulty. Have a look at Halo 2. Halo 2 had a single glaring aspect of broken gameplay that increased its difficulty 10 fold. Jackal snipers who can one shot you and have super accuracy did in no way increase the fun, or difficulty. It just made the game overly frustrating and seemed like a pretty poor design choice.
>
> Who remembers sniper alley? Now let me ask you, do you remember it because of the incredible fun you had, or do you remember it because it was one of the most frustrating portions of the game in legendary? Challenge =/= memorizing the spots of every jackal sniper so that when you respawn you can kill them.
>
> I didn’t mind the H3 jackal snipers as much. They couldn’t one shot you and they had the little light thing to give them away. But I would rather snipers are included within the big group of baddies to fight rather having their own sections. Those were just criminally short sighted game designs Bungie made. I don’t think anyone really enjoyed the obligatory sniper v. sniper sections. Make them an actual opponent rather than a set piece.
Oh, I do remember the sniper alley assuming you’re referring to the one on Outskirts. It was annoying until I found a way to get to the roofs, since then I ahve always skipped it. But I personally never found the Jackal snipers as annoying as most people, I was having more problems with my shields going down super quickly and the super resistant Brutes that are near impossible to kill (start of Gravemind is a great example). The Drones also were super frustrating.
Anyway, although I like the Legendary of Halo 2 (only because of the challenge it offers), I still enjoy much more playing Halo CE. CE practically perfected how Halo campaign difficulties should be. Instead of giving us the same enemies with more health, we got double the previous amount of Elites. That made the game feel cahllenging and rewarding at the same time.
P.S. I too think that it’s nice this is something we both agree on. But hey, no matter how much you disagree on some subject, you will always share common opinion in another subject. It’s impossible to have two people with differing opinions on everything.
Another thing I’m excited for is hearing the new music. That’s one thing the multiplayer can never have. The music sets the whole mood for Halo. I’m sure most of you have seen the director’s cut teaser trailer. I don’t know if the music in that was just a placeholder, but I’m really hoping it’s not. I loved that. However, the music for the official trailer was also very good.
i think its the story and deep universe that made halo, i hope they introduce the other spartans in halo 4 