Thoughts & Questions about the SIVs

Community Halo Universe
1

This thread focuses on some thoughts and questions that have arisen in me in regards to the Spartan IVs and their potential future.

The Spartan IVs are obviously another kind of Spartans than the previous two generations (IIs and IIIs).
Shortly summed up the main difference between them is:

Spartan II/III: raised to be a war machine/Spartan
Spartan IV: raised to be a human, trained and taught to be a soldier and then turned into a Spartan through augmentations and MJOLNIR armor

The result is a significant psychological difference between the IIs/IIIs and the IVs and I’ve always thought that shouts for potential issues.

But let’s take a step back. Let’s shortly focus on the first introduction of the Spartan IVs in Halo 4’s Campaign.
It was Sarah Palmer. In her scene you could ask yourself: why in the world isn’t she wearing her helmet in a combat zone?
It doesn’t make much sense that she is helmetless from a military perspektive but I think it is simply to directly show the main difference between the old generation of Spartans (machine) and the new generation of Spartans (human) in the first encounter between old and new.
We have the new with Palmer, a Spartan IV, a human inside a machine, who tries to socialize by breaking the ice with a joke. And then we have the old with John, a Spartan II, a machine in a human shell, stiff and reserved.
The difference between the generations was already tried to make clear in this little scene in my opinion.

Later with Spartan Ops, Majestic becomes representative for the IVs.
(Not every single Spartan IV is exactly like them of course, since they are all individuals and there are always exceptions, but they represent them nonetheless)
They are shown to be undisciplined, disrespectful and it seems like as if being a “Spartan” has gotten to their heads. As a result they do not only tend to show inappropriate behaviour but they also have a mediocre combat performance for a Spartan.
Thorne seems to represent the only exception or minority who is respectful and stayed down-to-earth but even he showed that he heavily struggles with and eventually can’t handle extreme situations (the fight with Gek), situations in which Spartans should excel.

The Spartan IV program seems like it was rushed in general. At least I think it hasn’t shown the depth that the former programs had. It’s roughly said more like: we take the best current soldiers and give them better equipment and physical abilities.

However, the behaviour of Majestic showed that even though the IVs are called Spartans, they aren’t really related with the former Spartans. Physically they might be identical but mentally they are entirely different.
The IVs gained this enormous physical power but not the proper mind for it. And this is what sounds alarming in my opinion.

It also let the question arise in me if we perhaps weren’t really supposed to like the IV’s or rather if their shown behaviour is actually intended to make the difference between the II/IIIs and the IVs more obvious and likely to give us a hint that they will cause serious troubles sooner or later.
An action like Scruggs’ betrayal could already be considered the beginning.

One last question I asked myself in regards to the IVs is why is a former ODST the commander of the Spartan IVs and not someone of the remaining Spartan IIs, someone with way more experience especially in regards to Spartans?
Perhaps to prevent that Halsey can have any major influence on those new Spartans? Or perhaps a kidnapped child who’s live has been turned into a perversion by force isn’t the best choice for a commander that represents a previously rumoured military program that now has become public? Rather hiding the past and locking “Halsey’s demonic work” away, so the new Spartans can shine in an innocent light?

In addition, don’t get me wrong I do not hate on the IVs or anything. This thread just contains some thoughts that have arisen in me. Besides, I think the fact that they are more human than machine has a lot of potential and I would actually welcome or rather like the idea of a twist in the history of the Spartans. That the “perfect” soldiers, created to protect you and prevent and solve issues, eventually fail and cause them.
(Sounds quite familiar when taking a look at the Forerunners and their history btw)

That was it from me so far.
Feel free to comment on the points and questions I addressed and brought up.

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Anyone who’s read my previous posts about the IVs knows that I am a strong advocate of them. That said, I’m willing to accept that they really shouldn’t be considered true Spartans. The defining characteristic of the Spartans so far has been the fact that they were indoctrinated with military training and doctrine from a young age; combat prowess was ingrained in them. The IVs, as adult volunteers, simply can’t have that “Spartan mentality.” That’s not to say that they can never be as skilled as a II or III, but it will take tons of effort and experience on their part. Near-constant War Games simulation training seems to be a big help already.

> Majestic becomes representative for the IVs.

What about Crimson, a skilled, professional team which was arguably the saving grace of the Infinity on its return to Requiem? Or Shadow, who infiltrated and destroyed a Covenant battlecruiser within minutes? And really, even Majestic wasn’t that bad. Maybe at first, but they seem to have gotten their act together near the latter half of Spartan Ops.

> (the fight with Gek)

Thorne was severely weakened before that fight. He remarkably held his own against several Elites (while unarmed and helmetless) before being defeated. And if you rewatch his fight with Gek, you’ll see that Gek actually didn’t fight very well, only getting two hits in. If Thorne hadn’t been weakened beforehand, I have no doubts that he would have won.

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> Anyone who’s read my previous posts about the IVs knows that I am a strong advocate of them. That said, I’m willing to accept that they really shouldn’t be considered true Spartans. The defining characteristic of the Spartans so far has been the fact that they were indoctrinated with military training and doctrine from a young age; combat prowess was ingrained in them. The IVs, as adult volunteers, simply can’t have that “Spartan mentality.” That’s not to say that they can never be as skilled as a II or III, but it will take tons of effort and experience on their part. Near-constant War Games simulation training seems to be a big help already.

Actually I wouldn’t even say that the IVs can’t be considered true Spartans since that actually solely depends on the definition. Just that there is a major difference between them why the IVs are generally inherently different Spartans than the IIs and IIIs.
I mean you wouldn’t say an Army Ranger isn’t a true soldier, only Navy Seals are. (perhaps not the best example but I hope you get my point)

On the War Games simulation thing, I think a simulation stays a simulation. It helps but getting prepared with reality for reality is still a different calibre and shows different results.

> > Majestic becomes representative for the IVs.
>
> What about Crimson, a skilled, professional team which was arguably the saving grace of the Infinity on its return to Requiem? Or Shadow, who infiltrated and destroyed a Covenant battlecruiser within minutes? And really, even Majestic wasn’t that bad. Maybe at first, but they seem to have gotten their act together near the latter half of Spartan Ops.

Crimson can’t be representative for the IVs since Crimson represents you, the player. Team Crimson aren’t set characters, Crimson isn’t even a set team. Crimson are the characters the people imaging them to be. Crimson could vary from being a team of Spartan IIs from being a team of rich civilians that bought themselves into the program or from being a mixed bag.

The other Spartan Teams that were mentioned in SpOps can’t be representative because we haven’t seen them interact with themselves or with other people.
Plus in case of Shadow we can only say they infiltrated and managed to destroy the cruiser, nothing more though. The duration of their feat even depends on how fast or slow you play the level. I.e. when I would refuse to complete the last objective and take a long look at the scenery then Shadow would have needed an hour to do that.

So Majestic is the only team that can be representative for the IVs because they are the only IVs aside Palmer that have actual screen time in which they act and interact and hence get developed as characters.

> > (the fight with Gek)
>
> Thorne was severely weakened before that fight. He remarkably held his own against several Elites (while unarmed and helmetless) before being defeated. And if you rewatch his fight with Gek, you’ll see that Gek actually didn’t fight very well, only getting two hits in. If Thorne hadn’t been weakened beforehand, I have no doubts that he would have won.

But when Thorne would not have been weakened beforehand then it wouldn’t have been an extreme situation, what I was pointing out.
The Chief would like to have a word with you. In First Strike there is even a similar fight. Or what about Ash and his team and their first contact with the Sentinels on Onyx. They were at a massive disadvantage plus even just kids.
But they still managed to handle the situation, because that is what they have been prepared for.

But actually my intention was not to start another discussion of which generation is better or which generation performed the more impressive feats with that part of my post.
But I wanted to discuss if their shown behavior and performance is the result that they haven’t been mentally raised, trained and prepared like the IIs and IIIs. And if that psychological lack could result in potential critical issues with the IVs in the near future.

Because you are a strong advocate of the IVs I am actually quite interested in what you think about my thoughts that the IVs could become or cause critical issues sooner or later?

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> Crimson can’t be representative for the IVs since Crimson represents you, the player. Team Crimson aren’t set characters, Crimson isn’t even a set team. Crimson are the characters the people imaging them to be. Crimson could vary from being a team of Spartan IIs from being a team of rich civilians that bought themselves into the program or from being a mixed bag.

They are most definitely not IIs, as Halo 4 makes it clear that you are playing as a IV. Even if the “rich civilian” theory is true, their origins hardly matter. Crimson has become a critical fireteam aboard the Infinity, lauded by Palmer herself. No, we can’t say for sure what their personalities are, but we do know that they are highly efficient at completing missions and that they rarely talk during combat.

> So Majestic is the only team that can be representative for the IVs because they are the only IVs aside Palmer that have actual screen time in which they act and interact and hence get developed as characters.

Even so, Majestic wasn’t portrayed in such a bad light like people suggest. As I mentioned before, despite their initial problems, they appear to have gotten their act together.

> The Chief would like to have a word with you. In First Strike there is even a similar fight. Or what about Ash and his team and their first contact with the Sentinels on Onyx. They were at a massive disadvantage plus even just kids. But they still managed to handle the situation, because that is what they have been prepared for.

Good point, but it’s not fair to compare the IIs and IIIs with the IVs just yet. Master Chief has 30+ years of experience, while the IIIs recieved more rigorous training than the IIs and were indoctrinated just like their predecessors. Besides, the IVs were at a massive disadvantage as well. They were fighting against Covenant forces utilizing Forerunner weapons and tech, plus Promethean enemies who can spawn out of nowhere, on a world where AA guns and other weapons can be composed out of thin air. Yet there were only a few casualties among the IVs’ ranks.

> Because you are a strong advocate of the IVs I am actually quite interested in what you think about my thoughts that the IVs could become or cause critical issues sooner or later?

Well, we don’t know a great deal about the selection and screening process, so I really can’t be sure. Because the IVs aren’t indoctrinated by the UNSC, it is possible that Insurrectionist spies could enter their ranks. Other than that though, I can’t imagine any problems the IVs could cause.

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> They are most definitely not IIs, as Halo 4 makes it clear that you are playing as a IV. Even if the “rich civilian” theory is true, their origins hardly matter. Crimson has become a critical fireteam aboard the Infinity, lauded by Palmer herself. No, we can’t say for sure what their personalities are, but we do know that they are highly efficient at completing missions and that they rarely talk during combat.

I think you missed the point I was trying to make.
Crimson can’t be taken as an example or representative team of the IVs because they represent you. It’s up to your imagination what Crimson represents or rather what characters hide behind the helmets. Crimson is even talking but their lines and conversations are up to you and the people you play with.
In the end all we can say is that Crimson played an important role in the events of Requiem and they successfully completed their missions. Nothing more though. We don’t know if their performance was high quality or just mediocre on their missions. Sure Palmer lauded Crimson (us) but what else would you expect. That she says that your performance was awful and she will take another team for the next mission and from that point you will only see Requiem from the deck of the Infinity?

> Even so, Majestic wasn’t portrayed in such a bad light like people suggest. As I mentioned before, despite their initial problems, they appear to have gotten their act together.

I would say they were represented in a light you wouldn’t expect a Spartan standing in (nothing what bothered me though, I actually found that quite interesting).
Personal conflicts between team members, playboy or rather the stereotypical ODST attitude, ignoring of clear orders of the team leader, talking behind the back of a civilian (Halsey) and insulting her while standing right next to her as her escort.
Sure they manage to get their acts together but it’s the way they act that stands out and catches attention.
I don’t know but Majestic seems like the direct contrast to Blue Team. The colors of Majestic can’t be picked randomly, can they?

> Good point, but it’s not fair to compare the IIs and IIIs with the IVs just yet. Master Chief has 30+ years of experience, while the IIIs recieved more rigorous training than the IIs and were indoctrinated just like their predecessors. Besides, the IVs were at a massive disadvantage as well. They were fighting against Covenant forces utilizing Forerunner weapons and tech, plus Promethean enemies who can spawn out of nowhere, on a world where AA guns and other weapons can be composed out of thin air. Yet there were only a few casualties among the IVs’ ranks.

Like I said, I would actually like to avoid such kind of discussion where we directly list and compare certain feats, because like you said it wouldn’t be fair anyway, since the older generations have the Chief and I think there is no other Spartan that could compete with his feats. So I would really appreciate it if we could close this chapter right here. :slight_smile:

What I was aiming at is that experience doesn’t help you much in situations you have never experienced before. You have to be physically and especially mentally prepared for such situations (what the IIs and IIIs achieved in their training) to be able to handle them and eventually succeed.

> Well, we don’t know a great deal about the selection and screening process, so I really can’t be sure. Because the IVs aren’t indoctrinated by the UNSC, it is possible that Insurrectionist spies could enter their ranks. Other than that though, I can’t imagine any problems the IVs could cause.

Ok, so you don’t exclude it.
The thought about possible Innies within the IVs is something I had in mind as well.

In addition, do you also have an opinion on my “theory” or your own why not a Spartan of the older generations is the commander of the IVs?

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> Actually I wouldn’t even say that the IVs can’t be considered true Spartans since that actually solely depends on the definition. Just that there is a major difference between them why the IVs are generally inherently different Spartans than the IIs and IIIs.
> I mean you wouldn’t say an Army Ranger isn’t a true soldier, only Navy Seals are. (perhaps not the best example but I hope you get my point)
>
> On the War Games simulation thing, I think a simulation stays a simulation. It helps but getting prepared with reality for reality is still a different calibre and shows different results.

A Spartan is an augmented soldier who is the product of a Spartan program, hence the Spartan IVs are “true Spartans” (A phrase which is thrown around but doesn’t really mean anything. They’re just as much Spartans as the previous generations, they’re just slightly different).

> Crimson can’t be representative for the IVs since Crimson represents you, the player. Team Crimson aren’t set characters, Crimson isn’t even a set team. Crimson are the characters the people imaging them to be. Crimson could vary from being a team of Spartan IIs from being a team of rich civilians that bought themselves into the program or from being a mixed bag.
>
> The other Spartan Teams that were mentioned in SpOps can’t be representative because we haven’t seen them interact with themselves or with other people.
> Plus in case of Shadow we can only say they infiltrated and managed to destroy the cruiser, nothing more though. The duration of their feat even depends on how fast or slow you play the level. I.e. when I would refuse to complete the last objective and take a long look at the scenery then Shadow would have needed an hour to do that.
>
> So Majestic is the only team that can be representative for the IVs because they are the only IVs aside Palmer that have actual screen time in which they act and interact and hence get developed as characters.

No one single team of 5 people can be representative of a couple of hundred people. Just because 5 people are one way, doesn’t mean the rest are either. There’s absolutely no way civilians could buy their way in either. That’s like a civilian buying his/ her way into joining the Navy Seals or SAS, it just wouldn’t be allowed to happen, especially considering the Spartan program would be involved with a lot of heavily classified stuff and is highly expensive when it comes to augmentation, Mjolnir etc. DeMarco also showed himself to be very “Spartan-like” in Halo: Escalation.

I don’t see why people underestimate the IVs, it’s essentially the same as pumping Navy Seals or SAS operators full of steroids and other enhancing drugs and then equipping them with Mjolnir. I doubt anyone would say the special forces of today such as the Seals or SAS are incompetent or poor soldiers.

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> No one single team of 5 people can be representative of a couple of hundred people. Just because 5 people are one way, doesn’t mean the rest are either. There’s absolutely no way civilians could buy their way in either. That’s like a civilian buying his/ her way into joining the Navy Seals or SAS, it just wouldn’t be allowed to happen, especially considering the Spartan program would be involved with a lot of heavily classified stuff and is highly expensive when it comes to augmentation, Mjolnir etc. DeMarco also showed himself to be very “Spartan-like” in Halo: Escalation.
>
> I don’t see why people underestimate the IVs, it’s essentially the same as pumping Navy Seals or SAS operators full of steroids and other enhancing drugs and then equipping them with Mjolnir. I doubt anyone would say the special forces of today such as the Seals or SAS are incompetent or poor soldiers.

I already pointed out in my OP that Majestic doesn’t represent every single Spartan IV but they are and function as representative examples, they give you an impression of how the IVs act, behave and tick. Just like John can be taken as an representative examples of the IIs, what doesn’t mean that every single Spartan II is exactly like him.

That civilians could be behind the helmets of Crimson was simply an exaggeration to point out that its totally up to your imagination which kind of characters Crimson represents.

No one called the IVs incompetent so far in this thread, nor is it my intention to argue about that.

One of my questions in the OP has been what it could mean for the future of the IVs and the Spartan program that it creates significantly different Spartans in regards to their mindset when compared to the Spartan II and III programs.

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> I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

No actually, I didn’t. You say that Majestic is currently the face of the Spartan-IV program because their personalities and interactions are showcased more, but couldn’t Crimson also be the face of the program due to their mission competency and combat prowess throughout Spartan Ops? That in itself is a characterization: professionalism while on the job.

> In addition, do you also have an opinion on my “theory” or your own why not a Spartan of the older generations is the commander of the IVs?

The visual guide notes that the operations of the integrated IIs and IIIs are still quite classified, so the UNSC may be reticent to directly involve them with the more “conventional” Spartan-IV personnel.

> A Spartan is an augmented soldier who is the product of a Spartan program, hence the Spartan IVs are “true Spartans”

Factually, that’s true. Conceptually, it is not.

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I really hate to regard as the Spartan IV’s as “true Spartans”.

They just don’t fit the bill - they’re rowdy, loud, colorful and kind of arrogant in general.

Spartan II and III soldiers were taken in a life of servitude at a young age. They were trained, indoctrinated, augmented, and ultimately broken, to be super soldier. They were raised by it - quiet, polite - humanity’s best, brightest - fastest, strongest - the works.

The Spartan IV’s - or atleast the team of clowns we see in Halo 4 - are damn nearly an insult to this - I really hope they can prove themselves as more than just marines in suits in my eyes at some point, cause at the moment, because I don’t see it.

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> > No one single team of 5 people can be representative of a couple of hundred people. Just because 5 people are one way, doesn’t mean the rest are either. There’s absolutely no way civilians could buy their way in either. That’s like a civilian buying his/ her way into joining the Navy Seals or SAS, it just wouldn’t be allowed to happen, especially considering the Spartan program would be involved with a lot of heavily classified stuff and is highly expensive when it comes to augmentation, Mjolnir etc. DeMarco also showed himself to be very “Spartan-like” in Halo: Escalation.
> >
> > I don’t see why people underestimate the IVs, it’s essentially the same as pumping Navy Seals or SAS operators full of steroids and other enhancing drugs and then equipping them with Mjolnir. I doubt anyone would say the special forces of today such as the Seals or SAS are incompetent or poor soldiers.
>
> I already pointed out in my OP that Majestic doesn’t represent every single Spartan IV but they are and function as representative examples, they give you an impression of how the IVs act, behave and tick. Just like John can be taken as an representative examples of the IIs, what doesn’t mean that every single Spartan II is exactly like him.

Yeah you’re right there, I was under the impression you implied Majestic were representative of all the IVs.

> That civilians could be behind the helmets of Crimson was simply an exaggeration to point out that its totally up to your imagination which kind of characters Crimson represents.

Bit of an extreme exaggeration but I get what you’re saying. Personally I like to imagine the IVs as Call of Duty-esque action hero characters that have become Spartans. Like Captain Price or Sgt Woods in Mjolnir.

> No one called the IVs incompetent so far in this thread, nor is it my intention to argue about that.

Yeah I know, your thread is called “Thoughts & Questions about the SIVs” though, so I thought I’d share one of my thoughts on the matter, I wasn’t by any means accusing anyone of that although I can see why you might think I was.

> One of my questions in the OP has been what it could mean for the future of the IVs and the Spartan program that it creates significantly different Spartans in regards to their mindset when compared to the Spartan II and III programs.

I don’t think they’re significantly different, after all, the IIs would joke around when around each other, not to the extent that the IVs do but hey, they haven’t had quite the same level of indoctrination.

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> Factually, that’s true. Conceptually, it is not.

I’ll take a fact over a concept any day.

> I really hate to regard as the Spartan IV’s as “true Spartans”.
>
> They just don’t fit the bill - they’re rowdy, loud, colorful and kind of arrogant in general.
>
> Spartan II and III soldiers were taken in a life of servitude at a young age. They were trained, indoctrinated, augmented, and ultimately broken, to be super soldier. They were raised by it - quiet, polite - humanity’s best, brightest - fastest, strongest - the works.
>
> The Spartan IV’s are damn nearly an insult to this - I really hope they can prove themselves as more than just marines in suits in my eyes at some point, cause at the moment, because I don’t see it.

  1. What do you mean by “True Spartan”?

  2. DeMarco and Madsen made a couple of jokes once off the field. Doesn’t mean they’re rowdy, loud, colourful or arrogant at all. To judge them that way would be like hearing a couple of people who live in a specific village swearing and then jumping to the conclusion that all people who live in that area are vulgar, vile, and obscene. Besides, Emile-A239 fits most of those traits

  3. Many of these Spartan IVs are likely career soldiers. They’ve certainly been indoctrinated to a degree. Many are also ex-special forces, meaning they’ve been trained exceptionally well. ODST training and special forces training for the UNSC in general is likely much better than modern special forces training today (Sorry to keep bringing up modern special forces but it’s the best example I can give), and no-one would say they’re poorly trained. I also don’t think the IIs and IIIs are broken by any means. Just different.

Have you read Halo: Escalation or listened to the dialogue from other Spartan IVs in Spartan Ops excluding Majestic, Palmer, and the handlers?

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> I’ll take a fact over a concept any day.

But the concept of what characterizes the perfect soldier is a theme brought up in Spartan Ops. You may think that Halsey is biased, but her opinions are supported by facts. The IIs’ and IIIs’ indoctrination undoubtedly gave them a significant edge, with Thorne even noting how that could be true. Military indoctrination is the major theme surrounding the Spartans (even Leonidas and his men), so the IVs can’t really have that label. They just can’t have that near-zealous focus on combat.

Yes, it’s a fact that the IVs are considered Spartans by the UNSC. But what do YOU think? What’s been characteristic of the previous programs? In what ways are the IVs different from their predecessors? What do you think it means to be a Spartan? These are questions I’d like you to answer.

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> > Factually, that’s true. Conceptually, it is not.
>
> I’ll take a fact over a concept any day.
>
>
>
> > I really hate to regard as the Spartan IV’s as “true Spartans”.
> >
> > They just don’t fit the bill - they’re rowdy, loud, colorful and kind of arrogant in general.
> >
> > Spartan II and III soldiers were taken in a life of servitude at a young age. They were trained, indoctrinated, augmented, and ultimately broken, to be super soldier. They were raised by it - quiet, polite - humanity’s best, brightest - fastest, strongest - the works.
> >
> > The Spartan IV’s are damn nearly an insult to this - I really hope they can prove themselves as more than just marines in suits in my eyes at some point, cause at the moment, because I don’t see it.
>
> 1. What do you mean by “True Spartan”?
>
> 2. DeMarco and Madsen made a couple of jokes once off the field. Doesn’t mean they’re rowdy, loud, colourful or arrogant at all. To judge them that way would be like hearing a couple of people who live in a specific village swearing and then jumping to the conclusion that all people who live in that area are vulgar, vile, and obscene. Besides, Emile-A239 fits most of those traits
>
> 3. Many of these Spartan IVs are likely career soldiers. They’ve certainly been indoctrinated to a degree. Many are also ex-special forces, meaning they’ve been trained exceptionally well. ODST training and special forces training for the UNSC in general is likely much better than modern special forces training today (Sorry to keep bringing up modern special forces but it’s the best example I can give), and no-one would say they’re poorly trained. I also don’t think the IIs and IIIs are broken by any means. Just different.
>
> Have you read Halo: Escalation or listened to the dialogue from other Spartan IVs in Spartan Ops excluding Majestic, Palmer, and the handlers?

They just don’t seem as hard-boiled as the Spartan III’s or III’s. They don’t have the same tale of being disciplined to a life of military from the age of 5.
They simply don’t seem to be at that level that the Spartan II’s were - even when they are victorious, it feels overwhelmingly scripted (Spartan Ops is a good example).

These are guys that try to get down with civilian women when evacing a planet, or run out wildly into a team of Promeatheans thinking they’re that good, or complain about getting a map when they’d rather have the “cool stuff” - a wise–Yoink- chick that insults scientists/nerds because they aren’t “cool” - the same nerds that developed their armour and augmentation drugs - then go out and get drunk after the fact.

I do understand the Spartan IVs are competent, and very strong soldiers they have potential, but they’re hard to really view as badass in the way I could look up to the bravery, wit and intelligence of Spartans - heroes - like John, Fred, Kurt, Sam, Noble 6, etc. - play them in the games, read about them in the books and the wikia, and just think “man, Spartans are just so boss!”

When I look to the SIVs - the ones who were given the spotlight in Halo 4 - what I see are a bunch of trigger happy hooligans.

Which is why dissapointing to think that these are supposed to be the new generation of humanity’s best.
I do hope that they will prove themselves as more than a bunch of “trigger-happy hooligans” who were given power armour, cause right now I’m having a hard time seeing them as much more than that.

14

I’m split on this.

First, we can’t hold Spartan IVs to the same standard as Spartan IIs and IIIs. But I also feel that they were pretty lax with the candidate selection.

Spartans should be a cut above, and not a lot of IVs display that they’re anything more than talented marines with incredibly expensive armor they need a machine to put on.

But humanity should not need to sacrifice their children to win a fight. That’s the Spartan IV program.

So while I feel they shouldn’t be stoic machines not phased by the horrors of war, they should come off as a high value elite branch of the UNSC and more needs to be done to create that.

15

In my opinion, The Spartan IVs just don’t feel like Halo. The Spartan IIs and IIIs seem so much more professional, where as the IVs come across rude and immature. I can’t stand them and to me they are the one thing that worries me for the future of this franchise.

I want serious heroes with a serious tone, yet in this beautiful, colourful but deadly universe. I liked Noble Team, Why? Cause they got down to business. You might have had a quick joke here or there from some of them, but they werent cocky or arrogant. They didnt need to be.

IVs are just in your face, and I really hope that either they become an enemy, or 343 make them FEEL like Halo.

16

> In my opinion, The Spartan IVs just don’t feel like Halo. The Spartan IIs and IIIs seem so much more professional, where as the IVs come across rude and immature. I can’t stand them and to me they are the one thing that worries me for the future of this franchise.

I see this quite often when posters mention their disapproval with the IVs. And by that, I mean lumping the entire program of hundreds of members into a central boiling pot due to the interaction with 6 Spartans.

I can see why you, and others, would have distaste for Majestic team, but I don’t understand this generalization of the entire program based on just those few members. And out of those 6 Spartans, 2 are inconsequential; Thorne and Grant.
I can see how DeMarco comes off as haughty, Palmer emotional/unprofessional, Hoya reckless, and Madsen ill-equipped to be a Spartan-IV. I don’t see, however, how an entire program is rendered poor quality based off these few individuals.

> I want serious heroes with a serious tone, yet in this beautiful, colourful but deadly universe. I liked Noble Team, Why? Cause they got down to business. You might have had a quick joke here or there from some of them, but they <mark>weren’t cocky or arrogant</mark>. They didnt need to be.

Emile is an example I can think of. Also, they were in a much more dire situation than Majestic aboard Infinity. Having a planet torn apart in front of your eyes will bring about a more serious tone than on humanity’s largest and strongest warship floating in space.

> IVs are just in your face, and I really hope that either they become an enemy, or 343 make them FEEL like Halo.

“IVs” should be replaced with Majestic, as that is more accurate. Also, 343i won’t be making an entire branch in the UNSC turn into a hive mind enemy. That’s just a poor direction to go.
I’m also not sure how you consider the IVs to be “not Halo,” as they’re based on the original program that got the Spartans started, albeit without the MJOLNIR armor.

17

I think it would be more appropriate to compare the Spartan-IVs to the original Orion Program because that’s what they’re really supposed to be. I would say the only reason they’re even called “Spartans” is because the name has become legendary after all the Spartan-II propaganda during the War. Obviously they are different compared to the IIs and IIIs because they are not made up of indoctrinated children, but what if you compared them to a Orion Candidate or “Spartan-I”?

Avery Johnson was a cigar chomping, cocky, fowl mouthed SoB who was very different from the Master Chief. He was still a super soldier though. He just happened to be more Human because he wasn’t programmed to be a soldier from the age of six. The Spartan-IVs are much more like Johnson than they are the Master Chief.

18

> I think it would be more appropriate to compare the Spartan-IVs to the original Orion Program because that’s what they’re really supposed to be. I would say the only reason they’re even called “Spartans” is because the name has become legendary after all the Spartan-II propaganda during the War. Obviously they are different compared to the IIs and IIIs because they are not made up of indoctrinated children, but what if you compared them to a Orion Candidate or “Spartan-I”?
>
> Avery Johnson was a cigar chomping, cocky, fowl mouthed SoB who was very different from the Master Chief. He was still a super soldier though. He just happened to be more Human because he wasn’t programmed to be a soldier from the age of six. The Spartan-IVs are much more like Johnson than they are the Master Chief.

THANK YOU!!!

19

I still don’t know why there wasn’t one single SII or SIII aboard Humanity’s most awesome warship?

Also why didn’t they let the surviving Spartan IIs and IIIs become the Commander of all the Spartan IVs?

Fred would’ve made for a very able Commander because of his well rounded skills and overall exemplary career as a Spartan… plus he was legitmately given the rank of an enlisted Officer by Kurt.

20

> I still don’t know why there wasn’t one single SII or SIII aboard Humanity’s most awesome warship?
>
> Also why didn’t they let the surviving Spartan IIs and IIIs become the Commander of all the Spartan IVs?
>
> Fred would’ve made for a very able Commander because of his well rounded skills and overall exemplary career as a Spartan… plus he was legitmately given the rank of an enlisted Officer by Kurt.

Apparently they have more important things to do than babysit the Infinity while she’s on an exploratory mission. Sure, she saw her fair share of combat but she has hundreds of Spartan-IVs on board who can babysit the scientists. According to the Halo 4 Essential Visual Guide, the Spartan-IIs are still active but their missions are highly classified. I don’t know what they’re doing but it must be pretty important. More important than being aboard Infinity at this time.