Thoughts On Gravemind

I’m here to talk about the Prisoner of Charum Hakkor and the connection he shares with the Gravemind, perhaps leading them to be one and the same. Prepare yourselves for a rather lengthy post:

The Terminals state that Mendicant Bias conversed with the Gravemind for 43 years before forcing itself into Rampancy, defecting to the Flood and betraying the Forerunners. I find it to be far beyond coincidence that the test-firing of Installation 05 at Charum Hakkor - and thus the release of the Prisoner - occurred at the same time and they conversed also for 43 years.

Gravemind states in Human Weakeness that he has consumed many AIs but spared one who joined him long ago, obviously referring to Mendicant Bias.

Primordium’s description states that humans call the Prisoner “The Primordial”, this is the same name Major John Smith uses to describe the Flood in The Mona Lisa.

The Prisoner is known as “the Timeless One”, Gravemind describes himself as a “timeless chorus”.

Gravemind states he has “listened - through rock and metal and time”, the Prisoner listened to the humans and San’Shyuum at Charum Hakkor in his prison for a very long time.

The last words of the Gravemind is “resignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. Defeat is simply the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved… but you imposed.” The latter part is referring to imprisonment, a sentence he never deserved. The PRISONER of Charum Hakkor, locked away for unknown reasons.

Mendicant Bias given charge of Installation 05 (his serial number was 05-032), the Prisoner stowed away on the Installation he stole - the same Halo we discover the Gravemind on 100,000 years later.

“Child of my enemy,” is a reference to Ancient Humanity - the first foe the Flood fought and lost against.

The Gravemind was in containment on Installation 05 and escaped when Penitent Tangent ignored his containment protocols. The Gravemind cannot have been formed after the breakout because there was no sentient life living there.*

In the Bestiarum, they have the Spartans labled as "Unclassified. You can tell they mean Spartans because they list them as “-skiska, u got it good!- sapiens augeous”. You can tell from the “augeous” they mean augmentations. Another curious thing to note is that they label them as Reclaimers. Anyways, even though they’re labeled as a separate people it still says “Ties with group - Human”.

However if you check out the Gravemind which is separate from the Flood like the Spartans, it doesn’t say “Ties with group - Flood”. He remains his own separate species.

In fact, in a physical sense, I don’t think the Prisoner was ever physically present, but rather using the Gravemind as a conduit for his mouth. The giant venus fly trap we see in Halo 2 got completely obliterated twice, once in the Forerunner era and once in the contemporary era, yet the Gravemind still survived. And before you say the GM in Halo 2/3 is not the same as the Forerunner one, it is.

Three things: Firstly, the Proto-Graveminds are a physical entity that requires much more substantial amounts of biomass to be created then what was present at 05. Second, when the Proto-GM dies, everything in the local Flood hive else dies, and it can be killed by conventional means, which the real GM cannot. Third, he speaks as if he’s extremely old and has experienced all things the Flood did 100,000 years ago and even before then.

The venus flytrap is a mouth organ, for him to speak verbally to the Chief and Arbiter. That was “destroyed” in Halo 3 during the High Charity explosion, yet GM survived again and begun rebuilding itself on the Ring. Installation 05, I believe was also glassed to kill off the Flood. He survived that too. And, according to him at the end of Halo 3, he survived the Halo detonation as well.

All of this indicates the Gravemind might not truly have ever been present, and that he was somewhere else, a long way from possibly even the galaxy, projecting his mind into the Flood.

Its this case with the Besterium that originally lead me to believe that the Gravemind was not actually present at Installation 05, High Charity or 04b, but rather the Prisoner was somehow psychically projecting his consciousness, or a part of it as the GM can apparently do so with individual Flood, to converse with Cortana.

TL;DR Gravemind is the Timeless one.

^too long. I never really understood Gravemind’s significance, anyway he is done and that’s the way I like it

A lot of this seems coincidental.

O_o Gravemind is dead YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!

He went BOOM! Master Chief was just too good for’em.

I think primordium brought to light everything stated in your long post. I’m not sure why you feel the need to say he projecting his consciousness because you are just making a speculation based on how the flood works. The flood is the grave mind and vise versa. Of course every grave mind is the prisoner/primordial. Just try to think of them as one being and every gravemind has the same knowledge and abilitys as the last I’m pretty sure. The lesser forms are just an extension of the grave mind. So inevitably there will be a gravemind in the coming trilogy.

Maybe they should rename this game Halo: Semantics?

> Maybe they should rename this game Halo: Semantics?

-Yoink!- lol.

Seriously though, this guy is just throwing stuff out there, could be right, but most likely not.

> ^too long. I never really understood Gravemind’s significance, anyway he is done and that’s the way I like it

While his physicality is non-existant, his entity actually is. He seems to exist whensoever the Flood exists, waiting to seize another host-Gravemind at the right time. This can be seen in Halo 3 when t=he survives after the explosion of High Charity and in Primordium when the Primordial says the Didact must “kill this servant so another will be set free”- speaking about his physical body. I believe the Gravemind we know and love is still out there to some capacity.

The plot of this trilogy is looking to be interesting.

> The plot of this trilogy is looking to be interesting.

Not only was this a good read but it makes me wanna finsih cryptum for Primordium. I think i am going to save this when i reach the chapters in book bringing up the flood…

> The plot of this trilogy is looking to be interesting.

If you say so…

In my mind, the Gravemind is in no way equal to a Precursor, the Precursors do not exist, and while the Gravemind was destroyed on Installation 04b, the Flood, even in their newly feral state, will seize any chance they have to recreate one.

one explanation for gravemind being able to project his consciousnesses on others is that the precursors were so called “transentient” beings, look up the definition of that…

I found this rather amusing hope your on the ball op that would be neat :slight_smile:

I’m surprised people actually think the gravemind is dead.

so could this actually mean that the “Precursor” is this entity that created the whole universe? and that it is actually using the flood graveminds as a host to maybe gather the information from the bodies, so it knows what is going on?

So the precursor can never be killed, as it is in a sense never there in the first place.

Hence why the engineer says that there is something “there but not there at the same time”

wow. this thing just got a whole lot deeper…

> I’m surprised people actually think the gravemind is dead.

how can he still be alive ?! the ark blew up along with the halo 04b that the gravemind was on

After reading your arguments I have come to a conclusion of my own.

I am about 100 pages into Primordium (great book), and it is saying that the Precursor, The Prisoner, The Primordial, The Timeless one, or what have you, was conducting tests on the People (humans living on Installation 05). Correct? Tests with the flood? Right? Some of the People that returned were missing limbs or split apart or even fused together. Correct?

The original flood virus wasn’t what it was in modern Halo history.

My theory is that the Precursors created the flood as a Biological weapon against the Forerunners and didn’t have a chance to use it before they disappeared. The humans found it and after using it on their pets for who knows how many years it eventually became more deadly, but they were able to fend it off.
This would be when the humans were defeated by Forerunners and devolved. The flood virus continued to evolve into something much closer to the flood we know.
Eventually The Primodial escaped, found the flood virus and mutated it even more to make it the ultimate biological weapon. Somehow, the Primordial has a connection with the flood and it uses the flood to do it’s bidding.

This could explain how a Precursor could be part of the new Halo Trilogy. It’s pissed the Chief killed it’s pride and joy, also a part of itself (it referring to the Timeless One).

Just another theory.
I don’t want Gravemind and the Precursor to be the same being basically…

> > I’m surprised people actually think the gravemind is dead.
>
> how can he still be alive ?! the ark blew up along with the halo 04b that the gravemind was on

Didn’t stop him from living after being blown up on High Charity.

it wasn’t installation 05 mendicant bias took control of, it was installaion 07

> I’m surprised people actually think the gravemind is dead.

I’m surprised people actually think there’s such a thing as the Gravemind.