Would it work?
yes/no the only way i would see it work if a warp gate was to open and have like a chaos firefight limited time mode with like WH40K inspired armor pieces as reward MCC (EDIT) (HALO 5) replace standard warzone AI with chaos forces and have like armor helmet rewards
Practically: It wouldn’t work because the whole point of 40k is it being the “most OP in everything” so another universe showing up that actually has things that are comparable or superior to what 40k has would completely break that illusion.
Thematically, no way. Halo could go for a break from all the grim “every faction is evil or questionably grey” side of fiction. Halo’s fundamenally a much more bittersweet franchise of inspiration and diplomacy between species – It should take a wider berth from more Xenophobia and excessive cruelty.
Not saying this series doesn’t have those things, but they are there to make polarity for a moral compass. 40K, on the other hand, is endless war and terror.
1 Like
In the games? I guess it could work. A space marine themed suit of Mjolnir would be neat.
Story wise? Absolutely not. Warhammer is so over the top in terms of power scaling. Space Marines could eat Spartans for breakfast. Some of the factions of WH40k make the Covenant look like a collection of little glass menagerie animals
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> In the games? I guess it could work. A space marine themed suit of Mjolnir would be neat.
>
> Story wise? Absolutely not. Warhammer is so over the top in terms of power scaling. Space Marines could eat Spartans for breakfast. Some of the factions of WH40k make the Covenant look like a collection of little glass menagerie animals
This touches on my point. 40k’s not really in a league above other franchises in power scaling. That’s just an illusion created by ignoring the lore of the other franchises.
Ex1: A Brute Chieftain with a Plasma Cannon or Hammer would be a fair match for a Space Marine Captain.
Ex2: A Spartan with an M99 Stanchion would be a fair match for a Vindicare Assassin.
Thus, it doesn’t matter if a Space Marine is strong enough to rip a Spartan’s spine out, because the Spartan has the skills and firepower to blow the Space Marine’s head off long before the Spartan has been noticed. That means all of the context matters, because both sides have strengths that could plausibly result in resounding victory.
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> In the games? I guess it could work. A space marine themed suit of Mjolnir would be neat.
>
> Story wise? Absolutely not. Warhammer is so over the top in terms of power scaling. Space Marines could eat Spartans for breakfast. Some of the factions of WH40k make the Covenant look like a collection of little glass menagerie animals
I’d say the issue now is more a disparity in the flow of tone, than it is a Spartan losing in a fight. Those things can be easily contrived in a crossover, and it’s not like it wouldn’t make sense for the sandbox.
The Brutes, especially among the new Banished, have some pretty insane guns and equipment easily fitting in 40K. The ravager is a standard issue among high-ranking Brutes, and the incendiary bursts would blow a human into flaming chunks. The alt-fire can even disintegrate Broadswords.
Then you have their sidearm, the Mangler. Finger-length spikes easily 20mm in diameter, also described as “not leaving much left” in the aftermath of hitting a fleshy target.
Then there are the Brutes themselves; deceptively intelligent at times, strong enough to throw Unggoy across a football field, faster than the eye can follow (Look at Atriox’ Origin story for that)… Halo has some nasty heavy-hitters.
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> > In the games? I guess it could work. A space marine themed suit of Mjolnir would be neat.
> >
> > Story wise? Absolutely not. Warhammer is so over the top in terms of power scaling. Space Marines could eat Spartans for breakfast. Some of the factions of WH40k make the Covenant look like a collection of little glass menagerie animals
>
> This touches on my point. 40k’s not really in a league above other franchises in power scaling. That’s just an illusion created by ignoring the lore of the other franchises.
>
> Ex1: A Brute Chieftain with a Plasma Cannon or Hammer would be a fair match for a Space Marine Captain.
> Ex2: A Spartan with an M99 Stanchion would be a fair match for a Vindicare Assassin.
>
> Thus, it doesn’t matter if a Space Marine is strong enough to rip a Spartan’s spine out, because the Spartan has the skills and firepower to blow the Space Marine’s head off long before the Spartan has been noticed. That means all of the context matters, because both sides have strengths that could plausibly result in resounding victory.
I disagree about the Power Scaling, Warhammer is above most sci-fi franchises. Not to mention the scope of Warhammer 40k. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids, and where there are a hundred or so S-II’s there are hundreds of thousands of space marines fighting battles that make Reach look like a small firefight. Boltguns are stupidly overpowered too. It’s just the ridiculous writing for the GrimDark™ setting of the universe. If you plopped the Covenant and the UNSC into the Warhammer universe they would be swallowed whole.
I also heavily disagree that a chieftan would be a fair fight for a Captain. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids with a bible. If Chief can kill a chieftain, and if 4 odsts can take one down, A space marine would walk over any brute. They fight Chaos, Orks, Tyranids in mass on the daily. A brute just doesn’t even come close to a regular Marine.
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> > Then there are the Brutes themselves; deceptively intelligent at times, strong enough to throw Unggoy across a football field, faster than the eye can follow (Look at Atriox’ Origin story for that)… Halo has some nasty heavy-hitters.
Halo has some good heavy hitters but compare those specialized brute weapons to a standard boltgun. That thing fires .75 caliber rocket powered bullets that explode upon penetration of the target. And that’s just standard issue. The guardsman lasguns can be considered more powerful or on par with covenant plasma weapons. They blow off limbs with ease and that’s just about the lowest tier weapon.
The tonal differences are just night and day. Halo has always been somewhat grounded and practical which I’ve always appreciated. Warhammer is just ridiculous for the sake of it.
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> > > Then there are the Brutes themselves; deceptively intelligent at times, strong enough to throw Unggoy across a football field, faster than the eye can follow (Look at Atriox’ Origin story for that)… Halo has some nasty heavy-hitters.
>
> Halo has some good heavy hitters but compare those specialized brute weapons to a standard boltgun. That thing fires .75 caliber rocket powered bullets that explode upon penetration of the target. And that’s just standard issue. The guardsman lasguns can be considered more powerful or on par with covenant plasma weapons. They blow off limbs with ease and that’s just about the lowest tier weapon.
>
> The tonal differences are just night and day. Halo has always been somewhat grounded and practical which I’ve always appreciated. Warhammer is just ridiculous for the sake of it.
I’m aware of the bolt weaponry, and it’s not exactly dwarfing the Banished standard issue arms I just mentioned. Again: the Shock Rifle and Ravager can decimate Broadswords in a strafing run, and the Mangler has virtually the same effect on targets that the Bolter rounds have on theirs. This is not even touching on what other, heavier weapons they have like the Skewer.
None of these weapons are “blowing off limbs” more than they are bursting the entire enemy carcass like a grape. Even modern calibers such as the 30-06 springfield can rival the mentioned Lasgun trauma with the right ammunition, and Banished guns are all about raw power for extreme physical and psychological damage.
“Somewhat grounded and practical” make sense in the context of the mainline UNSC, and also becomes a powerful anchor for hope. It’s in these cases where it becomes quite relative to what your footing is, especially in context of Jiralhanae. expecting things “realistic” from them is a huge bias on our part, as their temperaments and physiology impart a higher demand for weapons and technology we obviously would consider outlandish, over the top, or crazy – anything less would look heavily neutered on them.
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>
> I disagree about the Power Scaling, Warhammer is above most sci-fi franchises. Not to mention the scope of Warhammer 40k. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids, and where there are a hundred or so S-II’s there are hundreds of thousands of space marines fighting battles that make Reach look like a small firefight. Boltguns are stupidly overpowered too. It’s just the ridiculous writing for the GrimDark™ setting of the universe. If you plopped the Covenant and the UNSC into the Warhammer universe they would be swallowed whole.
>
> I also heavily disagree that a chieftan would be a fair fight for a Captain. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids with a bible. If Chief can kill a chieftain, and if 4 odsts can take one down, A space marine would walk over any brute. They fight Chaos, Orks, Tyranids in mass on the daily. A brute just doesn’t even come close to a regular Marine.
You’re free to like 40k. I’m not challenging that. However, if you need 40k to be significantly more powerful than all other franchises, I’m sorry to tell you that it just isn’t. Look at the actual lore of the other franchises, rather than comparing their gameplay or cutscenes to obscure references in the 40k books.
Also look again at your argument. I didn’t quite say what you think I said. I never claimed the UNSC or Covenant could take on the whole of 40k. I never said all Brutes were equal to all Space Marines. I said the Brute Chieftains with their standard weaponry could take on Space Marine Captains with their standard weaponry. They have similar stature and feats of strength. Both are armored and shielded. Both have access to roughly equivalent hammers and both have powerful plasma weaponry that easily eats through most armor. Lore abilities vs lore abilities they’re a fair fight.
Your comparisons between Spartans and Space Marines shows that you really didn’t grasp what I said in my previous comment. You’re judging a bird by its ability to swim, and saying the fish is better, completely missing that most birds don’t hunt by swimming. They spot their prey from a distance and strike before the prey knows what happened. That’s why the 40k comparison for a spartan is a Vindicare Assassin, not a Space Marine.
Also note, you didn’t even consider the Forerunners, or more powerful than them, the Flood, or greater yet the Precursors for whom the Flood are just puppets they use to manipulate the mortal races.
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> >
> > I disagree about the Power Scaling, Warhammer is above most sci-fi franchises. Not to mention the scope of Warhammer 40k. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids, and where there are a hundred or so S-II’s there are hundreds of thousands of space marines fighting battles that make Reach look like a small firefight. Boltguns are stupidly overpowered too. It’s just the ridiculous writing for the GrimDark™ setting of the universe. If you plopped the Covenant and the UNSC into the Warhammer universe they would be swallowed whole.
> >
> > I also heavily disagree that a chieftan would be a fair fight for a Captain. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids with a bible. If Chief can kill a chieftain, and if 4 odsts can take one down, A space marine would walk over any brute. They fight Chaos, Orks, Tyranids in mass on the daily. A brute just doesn’t even come close to a regular Marine.
>
> You’re free to like 40k. I’m not challenging that. However, if you need 40k to be significantly more powerful than all other franchises, I’m sorry to tell you that it just isn’t. Look at the actual lore of the other franchises, rather than comparing their gameplay or cutscenes to obscure references in the 40k books.
>
> Also look again at your argument. I didn’t quite say what you think I said. I never claimed the UNSC or Covenant could take on the whole of 40k. I never said all Brutes were equal to all Space Marines. I said the Brute Chieftains with their standard weaponry could take on Space Marine Captains with their standard weaponry. They have similar stature and feats of strength. Both are armored and shielded. Both have access to roughly equivalent hammers and both have powerful plasma weaponry that easily eats through most armor. Lore abilities vs lore abilities they’re a fair fight.
>
> Your comparisons between Spartans and Space Marines shows that you really didn’t grasp what I said in my previous comment. You’re judging a bird by its ability to swim, and saying the fish is better, completely missing that most birds don’t hunt by swimming. They spot their prey from a distance and strike before the prey knows what happened. That’s why the 40k comparison for a spartan is a Vindicare Assassin, not a Space Marine.
>
> Also note, you didn’t even consider the Forerunners, or more powerful than them, the Flood, or greater yet the Precursors for whom the Flood are just puppets they use to manipulate the mortal races.
I’m not even that big of a 40k fan. I just know that the power difference between the two franchises is night and day. Warhammer is absurd and ridiculous. I dont need it to be more powerful. I’m just saying the two universes are incompatible. Warhammer isn’t the strongest but it’s far stronger than the majority of the halo universe in every aspect
Go search up any who would win post between halo and warhammer. Its almost common knowledge when stomps most of everything.
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> > >
> > > I disagree about the Power Scaling, Warhammer is above most sci-fi franchises. Not to mention the scope of Warhammer 40k. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids, and where there are a hundred or so S-II’s there are hundreds of thousands of space marines fighting battles that make Reach look like a small firefight. Boltguns are stupidly overpowered too. It’s just the ridiculous writing for the GrimDark™ setting of the universe. If you plopped the Covenant and the UNSC into the Warhammer universe they would be swallowed whole.
> > >
> > > I also heavily disagree that a chieftan would be a fair fight for a Captain. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids with a bible. If Chief can kill a chieftain, and if 4 odsts can take one down, A space marine would walk over any brute. They fight Chaos, Orks, Tyranids in mass on the daily. A brute just doesn’t even come close to a regular Marine.
> >
> > You’re free to like 40k. I’m not challenging that. However, if you need 40k to be significantly more powerful than all other franchises, I’m sorry to tell you that it just isn’t. Look at the actual lore of the other franchises, rather than comparing their gameplay or cutscenes to obscure references in the 40k books.
> >
> > Also look again at your argument. I didn’t quite say what you think I said. I never claimed the UNSC or Covenant could take on the whole of 40k. I never said all Brutes were equal to all Space Marines. I said the Brute Chieftains with their standard weaponry could take on Space Marine Captains with their standard weaponry. They have similar stature and feats of strength. Both are armored and shielded. Both have access to roughly equivalent hammers and both have powerful plasma weaponry that easily eats through most armor. Lore abilities vs lore abilities they’re a fair fight.
> >
> > Your comparisons between Spartans and Space Marines shows that you really didn’t grasp what I said in my previous comment. You’re judging a bird by its ability to swim, and saying the fish is better, completely missing that most birds don’t hunt by swimming. They spot their prey from a distance and strike before the prey knows what happened. That’s why the 40k comparison for a spartan is a Vindicare Assassin, not a Space Marine.
> >
> > Also note, you didn’t even consider the Forerunners, or more powerful than them, the Flood, or greater yet the Precursors for whom the Flood are just puppets they use to manipulate the mortal races.
>
> I’m not even that big of a 40k fan. I just know that the power difference between the two franchises is night and day. Warhammer is absurd and ridiculous. I dont need it to be more powerful. I’m just saying the two universes are incompatible. Warhammer isn’t the strongest but it’s far stronger than the majority of the halo universe in every aspect
>
> Go search up any who would win post between halo and warhammer. Its almost common knowledge when stomps most of everything.
You’re really not putting thought into this for yourself, and are instead taking the word of other people who didn’t put any more thought into this than you did. Look at narrow specific examples from the franchises, and you’ll find there’s a lot more equivalency than you’d otherwise think. The “common knowledge” you’re citing is wrong.
Thunder Hammer = Gravity Hammer
Bolter = rapid-fire version of the UNSC man-portable rail gun (from Halo 4)
Imperial Guardsman = Covenant Grunt
Lasgun = Covenant Plasma Pistol.
space marines = higher-ranked Brutes or Hunters
Primarchs = Forerunner warrior-servants.
Necrons = Composed Prometheans.
The most terrible aspects of the Orks and Chaos Demons combined = Flood
40k has no counter for the Halo Array, which could wipe organic life from 40k’s galaxy with 2-3 firings without ever giving 40k’s forces a chance to attack it, due to it never entering 40k’s galaxy.
40k has no counter for Neural Physics, which allows instantaneous travel over any distance, and can be used to throw or destroy stars with more versatility than the Celestial Orrery, not to mention that Neural Physical constructs are immune to conventional weaponry.
40k’s factions may be more powerful overall than the Covenant or UNSC, but they’re not on the level of the Forerunners or the Flood. Really look into the lore, and you’ll start to see that.
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> > In the games? I guess it could work. A space marine themed suit of Mjolnir would be neat.
> >
> > Story wise? Absolutely not. Warhammer is so over the top in terms of power scaling. Space Marines could eat Spartans for breakfast. Some of the factions of WH40k make the Covenant look like a collection of little glass menagerie animals
>
> This touches on my point. 40k’s not really in a league above other franchises in power scaling. That’s just an illusion created by ignoring the lore of the other franchises.
>
> Ex1: A Brute Chieftain with a Plasma Cannon or Hammer would be a fair match for a Space Marine Captain.
> Ex2: A Spartan with an M99 Stanchion would be a fair match for a Vindicare Assassin.
>
> Thus, it doesn’t matter if a Space Marine is strong enough to rip a Spartan’s spine out, because the Spartan has the skills and firepower to blow the Space Marine’s head off long before the Spartan has been noticed. That means all of the context matters, because both sides have strengths that could plausibly result in resounding victory.
This people have an tendency to overblow 40k and I say this as a 40k fan myself. Of course if you put the entire UNSC vs the entire Imperium of Man, the latter would win without much effort due to the sheer amount of everything the Imperium has: numbers, better technology as a whole, far more experienced soldiers, etc. but in the context of a smaller skirmish and dependent on unit composition, the UNSC could feasibly pull of a victory. Also Spartans even in 40k could do very well. Physically a spartan isn’t actually that far from a space marine considering that modern gen 4 allows spartans to fight against brutes on fairly even footing if not outright surpass them in close combat, and speed wise spartans are considered to be a blur when moving at full speed to the average human eye which is how space marines had been described speed feats wise as well. Really the main difference between Spartans and Space Marines that give the latter an advantage is experience, better armor and weaponry however even these disadvantages wouldn’t make a fight a curbstomp in the marines favor. Space marines would definitely have to work for the kill and their would be a very real possibility of them losing battle brothers during the fight even if they do come out with the win.
Also if you put the Covenant in 40k, they would actually likely be on a similar level to the Tau. Their strong enough that they could fights against other factions and potentially win fights here and their, but if they were focused in on by the big players they would get destroyed. The Flood however would be devastating in 40k. It would only take them consuming a single hive world to create a keymind and if the Imperium doesn’t immediately exterminatus that planet from the get go, then the whole universe is potentially screwed. The Foreunners at their peak of power were basically on the same level as the Necrons and Aeldari Empire during the War in Haven so they would pretty much stomp every faction as of current 40k. 40k is strong among sci fi universes no doubt about that and while Halo is a lot more grounded than 40k as a setting, it can definitely punch above it’s weight class.
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> > > >
> > > > I disagree about the Power Scaling, Warhammer is above most sci-fi franchises. Not to mention the scope of Warhammer 40k. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids, and where there are a hundred or so S-II’s there are hundreds of thousands of space marines fighting battles that make Reach look like a small firefight. Boltguns are stupidly overpowered too. It’s just the ridiculous writing for the GrimDark™ setting of the universe. If you plopped the Covenant and the UNSC into the Warhammer universe they would be swallowed whole.
> > > >
> > > > I also heavily disagree that a chieftan would be a fair fight for a Captain. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids with a bible. If Chief can kill a chieftain, and if 4 odsts can take one down, A space marine would walk over any brute. They fight Chaos, Orks, Tyranids in mass on the daily. A brute just doesn’t even come close to a regular Marine.
>
> You’re really not putting thought into this for yourself, and are instead taking the word of other people who didn’t put any more thought into this than you did. Look at narrow specific examples from the franchises, and you’ll find there’s a lot more equivalency than you’d otherwise think. The “common knowledge” you’re citing is wrong.
>
> Thunder Hammer = Gravity Hammer
> Bolter = rapid-fire version of the UNSC man-portable rail gun (from Halo 4)
> Imperial Guardsman = Covenant Grunt
> Lasgun = Covenant Plasma Pistol.
> space marines = higher-ranked Brutes or Hunters
> Primarchs = Forerunner warrior-servants.
> Necrons = Composed Prometheans.
> The most terrible aspects of the Orks and Chaos Demons combined = Flood
>
> 40k has no counter for the Halo Array, which could wipe organic life from 40k’s galaxy with 2-3 firings without ever giving 40k’s forces a chance to attack it, due to it never entering 40k’s galaxy.
>
> 40k has no counter for Neural Physics, which allows instantaneous travel over any distance, and can be used to throw or destroy stars with more versatility than the Celestial Orrery, not to mention that Neural Physical constructs are immune to conventional weaponry.
>
> 40k’s factions may be more powerful overall than the Covenant or UNSC, but they’re not on the level of the Forerunners or the Flood. Really look into the lore, and you’ll start to see that.
I didn’t really feel the need to put much thought into because it’s not that deep of a conversation. I used to really enjoy online debates about fictional match ups, whenever warhammer gets mentioned it outclasses halo, star wars, mass effect and most other sci fi franchises. I have an inherent bias towards halo, but I know enough about 40k to know that Halo doesn’t come close (Unless it’s forerunner/Precursor) related.
For some of the example/match ups you gave. Comparisons can’t really be made there. The Thunderhammer can smash a carnifex (One of the biggest and strongest tyranids) in half. The gravity hammer doesn’t come close to that power. They’re false equivalents. Prometheans fall to standard UNSC firearms which fire NATO rounds that we use today in 2021. Necrons and nearly anything else in 40k would be even remotely damaged by them. The same logic goes to most other stuff for Halo. If covenant forces and ships can be defeated by the UNSC’s conventional weaponry, then Warhammer stuff would decimate anything halo has.
Space marines aren’t equal to hunters or brutes. They would overshadow most of everything that isn’t flesh and blood forerunner. I never read the forerunner books so i don’t bother trying to compare them to 40k. I just know that anything UNSC or Covenant is a non factor in most match ups.
The real point to be made here, in response to OP’s question is that a story crossover wouldn’t work story worse because of the difference in power scale. Most of the common ships in the imperium navy are larger than covenant CAS carriers and some get close to the sizes of the CSO. And they rock far more firepower. An interesting scenario to me would be how the forerunners deal with Chaos, Necrons and Tyranids. Necrons for sure wouldn’t be hurt by the halo arrays. Orks would probably survive because they spawn from tiny little fungi spores that aren’t biomass yet. Chaos exist in a different plane of existence.
EDIT: For fun i googled Necrons vs Forerunners. The War in Heaven era of necrons with the C’Tan on their side supposedly could be on par with or even more powerful than the forerunners.
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> > > > >
> > > > > I disagree about the Power Scaling, Warhammer is above most sci-fi franchises. Not to mention the scope of Warhammer 40k. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids, and where there are a hundred or so S-II’s there are hundreds of thousands of space marines fighting battles that make Reach look like a small firefight. Boltguns are stupidly overpowered too. It’s just the ridiculous writing for the GrimDark™ setting of the universe. If you plopped the Covenant and the UNSC into the Warhammer universe they would be swallowed whole.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also heavily disagree that a chieftan would be a fair fight for a Captain. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids with a bible. If Chief can kill a chieftain, and if 4 odsts can take one down, A space marine would walk over any brute. They fight Chaos, Orks, Tyranids in mass on the daily. A brute just doesn’t even come close to a regular Marine.
> >
> > You’re really not putting thought into this for yourself, and are instead taking the word of other people who didn’t put any more thought into this than you did. Look at narrow specific examples from the franchises, and you’ll find there’s a lot more equivalency than you’d otherwise think. The “common knowledge” you’re citing is wrong.
> >
> > Thunder Hammer = Gravity Hammer
> > Bolter = rapid-fire version of the UNSC man-portable rail gun (from Halo 4)
> > Imperial Guardsman = Covenant Grunt
> > Lasgun = Covenant Plasma Pistol.
> > space marines = higher-ranked Brutes or Hunters
> > Primarchs = Forerunner warrior-servants.
> > Necrons = Composed Prometheans.
> > The most terrible aspects of the Orks and Chaos Demons combined = Flood
> >
> > 40k has no counter for the Halo Array, which could wipe organic life from 40k’s galaxy with 2-3 firings without ever giving 40k’s forces a chance to attack it, due to it never entering 40k’s galaxy.
> >
> > 40k has no counter for Neural Physics, which allows instantaneous travel over any distance, and can be used to throw or destroy stars with more versatility than the Celestial Orrery, not to mention that Neural Physical constructs are immune to conventional weaponry.
> >
> > 40k’s factions may be more powerful overall than the Covenant or UNSC, but they’re not on the level of the Forerunners or the Flood. Really look into the lore, and you’ll start to see that.
>
> I didn’t really feel the need to put much thought into because it’s not that deep of a conversation. I used to really enjoy online debates about fictional match ups, whenever warhammer gets mentioned it outclasses halo, star wars, mass effect and most other sci fi franchises. I have an inherent bias towards halo, but I know enough about 40k to know that Halo doesn’t come close (Unless it’s forerunner/Precursor) related.
>
> For some of the example/match ups you gave. Comparisons can’t really be made there. The Thunderhammer can smash a carnifex (One of the biggest and strongest tyranids) in half. The gravity hammer doesn’t come close to that power. They’re false equivalents. Prometheans fall to standard UNSC firearms which fire NATO rounds that we use today in 2021. Necrons and nearly anything else in 40k would be even remotely damaged by them. The same logic goes to most other stuff for Halo. If covenant forces and ships can be defeated by the UNSC’s conventional weaponry, then Warhammer stuff would decimate anything halo has.
> Space marines aren’t equal to hunters or brutes. They would overshadow most of everything that isn’t flesh and blood forerunner. I never read the forerunner books so i don’t bother trying to compare them to 40k. I just know that anything UNSC or Covenant is a non factor in most match ups.
>
> The real point to be made here, in response to OP’s question is that a story crossover wouldn’t work story worse because of the difference in power scale. Most of the common ships in the imperium navy are larger than covenant CAS carriers and some get close to the sizes of the CSO. And they rock far more firepower. An interesting scenario to me would be how the forerunners deal with Chaos, Necrons and Tyranids. Necrons for sure wouldn’t be hurt by the halo arrays. Orks would probably survive because they spawn from tiny little fungi spores that aren’t biomass yet. Chaos exist in a different plane of existence.
It’s significantly deeper than you give it credit for. You admitted to not thinking deeply about it, because you saw a number of debates end the same way… but the problem with your logic is that the participants in those debates didn’t think particularly deeply about the lore of the franchises either. In my experience, most Halo fans don’t read the books, and thus are entering the debates effectively unarmed, because they don’t know the lore half as well as they think they do. Likewise, most 40k fans go in with their assumptions of supremacy, and don’t bother to know anything more about the other franchises than you could find in a 10minute Youtube video. As such, most debates are the blind leading the blind, making their conclusions irrelevant.
Halo’s game mechanics are not canonical, because they’re balancing for good gameplay, including PVP multiplayer. Even the Cutscenes are intended to depict events quickly and efficiently, meaning they’re not strictly perfectly canonical representations of the lore either (ex: shields in cutscenes tend to be ignored except when it’s particularly thematic to have shots splashing across shields). That’s why the lore in the books matter, it shows how powerful the weapons and shields are in the story.
Your severely over-inflated opinion of the power of things in the 40k universe is a separate issue, but it’s not one that’s going to be fixed in this comment section. This whole conversation highlights the accuracy of my first comment on this thread. You can’t accept 40k not being in a league of its own, so you ignore anything that shows other things to be equal or better than what they have.
Case and point… Look at Star Trek’s Phaser. Strictly speaking, it’s one of the most powerful hand-held weapons in all of fiction (depending on the episode, because its maximum output varies based on the writer and the needs of the plot). It could disintegrate a Carnifax, making it more powerful than any of 40k’s hand-held weapons. But 40k fans can’t accept that a Federation away team could take out a dozen of the Imperium’s finest Power Armored warriors with little effort. A humble Redshirt could kill a Space Marine.
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> > > > > > I disagree about the Power Scaling, Warhammer is above most sci-fi franchises. Not to mention the scope of Warhammer 40k. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids, and where there are a hundred or so S-II’s there are hundreds of thousands of space marines fighting battles that make Reach look like a small firefight. Boltguns are stupidly overpowered too. It’s just the ridiculous writing for the GrimDark™ setting of the universe. If you plopped the Covenant and the UNSC into the Warhammer universe they would be swallowed whole.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also heavily disagree that a chieftan would be a fair fight for a Captain. Space Marines are basically Spartans on steroids with a bible. If Chief can kill a chieftain, and if 4 odsts can take one down, A space marine would walk over any brute. They fight Chaos, Orks, Tyranids in mass on the daily. A brute just doesn’t even come close to a regular Marine.
>
> It’s significantly deeper than you give it credit for. You admitted to not thinking deeply about it, because you saw a number of debates end the same way… but the problem with your logic is that the participants in those debates didn’t think particularly deeply about the lore of the franchises either. In my experience, most Halo fans don’t read the books, and thus are entering the debates effectively unarmed, because they don’t know the lore half as well as they think they do. Likewise, most 40k fans go in with their assumptions of supremacy, and don’t bother to know anything more about the other franchises than you could find in a 10minute Youtube video. As such, most debates are the blind leading the blind, making their conclusions irrelevant.
>
> Halo’s game mechanics are not canonical, because they’re balancing for good gameplay, including PVP multiplayer. Even the Cutscenes are intended to depict events quickly and efficiently, meaning they’re not strictly perfectly canonical representations of the lore either (ex: shields in cutscenes tend to be ignored except when it’s particularly thematic to have shots splashing across shields). That’s why the lore in the books matter, it shows how powerful the weapons and shields are in the story.
>
> Your severely over-inflated opinion of the power of things in the 40k universe is a separate issue, but it’s not one that’s going to be fixed in this comment section. This whole conversation highlights the accuracy of my first comment on this thread. You can’t accept 40k not being in a league of its own, so you ignore anything that shows other things to be equal or better than what they have.
>
> Case and point… Look at Star Trek’s Phaser. Strictly speaking, it’s one of the most powerful hand-held weapons in all of fiction (depending on the episode, because its maximum output varies based on the writer and the needs of the plot). It could disintegrate a Carnifax, making it more powerful than any of 40k’s hand-held weapons. But 40k fans can’t accept that a Federation away team could take out a dozen of the Imperium’s finest Power Armored warriors with little effort. A humble Redshirt could kill a Space Marine.
I’m saying it’s not deep because this is a casual forum post on a Halowaypoint. I wasn’t planning on having some long winded debate about the power difference between the two franchises. It comes off like you have a chip on your shoulder and you’ve been quite belittling and that’s fine. But I don’t think any of this is worth being passive aggressive about. I’m not uneducated, I’ve read a majority of the novels (except the forerunner books) and I’ve been a big member of the lore community in the past.
I can accept that 40k is not in a league of it’s own, I’m not dense. It’s not the end all sci-fi powerhouse franchise. All I’m saying is that the majority of Halo is outclassed by the majority of the factions, specifically I use the the imperium as an example because they’re humans. If you threw a space marine into the Halo universe, he’d totally change the playing field as much as Chief did. If you throw a spartan into WH40k, they’d barely change anything whatsoever. There’s no illusion to break here. It’s as simple as, if this can be killed by UNSC firearms, odds are a standard issue weapon from warhammer could kill it better and bloodier. If a spartan can kill it, a space marine would kill it better. Every equality comparison you have made so far are all fairly inaccurate.
> If you threw a space marine into the Halo universe, he’d totally change the playing field as much as Chief did. If you throw a spartan into WH40k, they’d barely change anything whatsoever. There’s no illusion to break here. It’s as simple as, if this can be killed by UNSC firearms, odds are a standard issue weapon from warhammer could kill it better and bloodier. If a spartan can kill it, a space marine would kill it better. Every equality comparison you have made so far are all fairly inaccurate.
No matter how many times you state that, it isn’t an argument, nor a fact. It’s a baseless claim. You still can’t seem to comprehend that while standard-issue space marine weapons would qualify as power weapons in the UNSC, they aren’t powerful beyond the scope of the weapons produced by the UNSC. The difference is how prevalent the weapons are on each side.
You’re also stuck on your space marine vs spartan comparison, because recognizing the fallacy of that comparison breaks your entire narrative. The space marine is designed to be a walking tank with some other utility functions. The spartan is designed to be an assassin with some utility functions. The spartans aren’t designed to fill the same role as space marines the way vindicare assassins aren’t designed to fill the same role as space marines. You’re comparing a metaphorical bird to a fish and using the ability to swim as your measure of which is better, all while refusing to accept the fact that this is what you’re doing.
A space marine in the Halo universe would obliterate a battlefield or two, then die to plasma fire, refusing to use any “xenos” weapons after his own failed him (ammo is limited, dude). He would not ultimately make much of a difference.
Master Chief as a Pariah in the 40k universe with excellent combat abilities and the ability to blend into human populations could make a significant impact, though it wouldn’t be on a battlefield. It would be through assassinations, much like 40k’s own vindicare assassins.
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> > If you threw a space marine into the Halo universe, he’d totally change the playing field as much as Chief did. If you throw a spartan into WH40k, they’d barely change anything whatsoever. There’s no illusion to break here. It’s as simple as, if this can be killed by UNSC firearms, odds are a standard issue weapon from warhammer could kill it better and bloodier. If a spartan can kill it, a space marine would kill it better. Every equality comparison you have made so far are all fairly inaccurate.
>
> No matter how many times you state that, it isn’t an argument, nor a fact. It’s a baseless claim. You still can’t seem to comprehend that while standard-issue space marine weapons would qualify as power weapons in the UNSC, they aren’t powerful beyond the scope of the weapons produced by the UNSC. The difference is how prevalent the weapons are on each side.
>
> You’re also stuck on your space marine vs spartan comparison, because recognizing the fallacy of that comparison breaks your entire narrative. The space marine is designed to be a walking tank with some other utility functions. The spartan is designed to be an assassin with some utility functions. The spartans aren’t designed to fill the same role as space marines the way vindicare assassins aren’t designed to fill the same role as space marines. You’re comparing a metaphorical bird to a fish and using the ability to swim as your measure of which is better, all while refusing to accept the fact that this is what you’re doing.
>
> A space marine in the Halo universe would obliterate a battlefield or two, then die to plasma fire, refusing to use any “xenos” weapons after his own failed him (ammo is limited, dude). He would not ultimately make much of a difference.
>
> Master Chief as a Pariah in the 40k universe with excellent combat abilities and the ability to blend into human populations could make a significant impact, though it wouldn’t be on a battlefield. It would be through assassinations, much like 40k’s own vindicare assassins.
You really don’t need to be condensending to me. These conversations are supposed to be for fun but the way you’re going about this just isn’t enjoyable. You can interpret things however you want. At the end of the day it’s fiction. My only point is that Warhammer and Halo aren’t compatible because of the power difference between the two. Thats it. But I’d prefer not to continue this conversation. Best of luck to you
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> > > If you threw a space marine into the Halo universe, he’d totally change the playing field as much as Chief did. If you throw a spartan into WH40k, they’d barely change anything whatsoever. There’s no illusion to break here. It’s as simple as, if this can be killed by UNSC firearms, odds are a standard issue weapon from warhammer could kill it better and bloodier. If a spartan can kill it, a space marine would kill it better. Every equality comparison you have made so far are all fairly inaccurate.
> >
> > No matter how many times you state that, it isn’t an argument, nor a fact. It’s a baseless claim. You still can’t seem to comprehend that while standard-issue space marine weapons would qualify as power weapons in the UNSC, they aren’t powerful beyond the scope of the weapons produced by the UNSC. The difference is how prevalent the weapons are on each side.
> >
> > You’re also stuck on your space marine vs spartan comparison, because recognizing the fallacy of that comparison breaks your entire narrative. The space marine is designed to be a walking tank with some other utility functions. The spartan is designed to be an assassin with some utility functions. The spartans aren’t designed to fill the same role as space marines the way vindicare assassins aren’t designed to fill the same role as space marines. You’re comparing a metaphorical bird to a fish and using the ability to swim as your measure of which is better, all while refusing to accept the fact that this is what you’re doing.
> >
> > A space marine in the Halo universe would obliterate a battlefield or two, then die to plasma fire, refusing to use any “xenos” weapons after his own failed him (ammo is limited, dude). He would not ultimately make much of a difference.
> >
> > Master Chief as a Pariah in the 40k universe with excellent combat abilities and the ability to blend into human populations could make a significant impact, though it wouldn’t be on a battlefield. It would be through assassinations, much like 40k’s own vindicare assassins.
>
> You really don’t need to be condensending to me. These conversations are supposed to be for fun but the way you’re going about this just isn’t enjoyable. You can interpret things however you want. At the end of the day it’s fiction. My only point is that Warhammer and Halo aren’t compatible because of the power difference between the two. Thats it. But I’d prefer not to continue this conversation. Best of luck to you
My goal was a discussion of the lore of the two franchises, and you both ignored every point I made, and refused to provide any arguments for your position as you claim everything I say is wrong… yet I’m the one that’s condescending?