Thoughts and concerns about a locked flag

Games Other Halo
1

After careful consideration all day, with the caveat that I have NOT played Halo 4 yet, and after watching Bravo’s full video multiple times as well as the 343 official 30 second video, I have to say that I do not support the “Locked” flag on pickup. To promote the better variety and choice of gameplay path, the flag must be able to be put down.

Notice I did not say “juggled” but put down.

So let’s take the argument in support of the locked flag. It promotes teamwork. Now there’s an icon over the head of the flag carrier as well as Jeff Seitzer verbally compelling the player to escort and protect the flag carrier. This will of course lead to better team play amongst players that may struggle with objective gametypes. It may even lead to more players finding enjoyment in objective gametypes and spend more time there, leading to higher populations. This is definitively a good thing.

Additionally, a locked flag with pistol backup encourages the carrier to make good decisions regarding path, and rely on aforementioned teamplay. You won’t make a haphazard ill-advised pull, because you know that you can’t just drop the flag and go mano-y-mano with your assailants. You can defend yourself but the rockets are shelved.

Also, juggling is simply ridiculous. It really is. It may be skillful. It may have been necessary. But it really is silly. Having normal player speed, as well as pistol backup totally negates the reason for juggling anyway.

So lets talk about why a locked flag is a bad idea.

Fundamentally, a player should not be locked into anything. You can change weapons with a downed opponent. You can change loadouts in between spawns to suit gameplay style or flow of a single game. You can change your helmet and boots. So why can’t you change your mind about whether or not you want to run the flag right this second? Or even better, if it’s a tactical move where one player moves the flag to one part of the map and then passes it to a teammate and picks up support duties, this should totally be a viable allowable tactic.

Being able to put down the flag will not in any real way prevent the teamwork enhancing attributes 343i obviously wants to include. You can still have the icons over the players head on the HUD. You can have the announcing. Being able to put the flag down does not take away from this.

What happens if your team that is escorting you all gets killed? Now, you can’t decide to make a strategic withdrawal, allowing the other team to return while preserving your spawn to reset. There is just no reason why the player should be cornered by something like this in any way.

I do have a compromise in mind. How about having to hold the reload button down for one second before the flag is released? I think this could keep the tactical aspects of flag running while still enabling the player to adjust on the fly to gameplay direction.

Thoughts?

2

> After careful consideration all day, with the caveat that I have NOT played Halo 4 yet, and after watching Bravo’s full video multiple times as well as the 343 official 30 second video, I have to say that I do not support the “Locked” flag on pickup. To promote the better variety and choice of gameplay path, the flag must be able to be put down.
>
> Notice I did not say “juggled” but put down.
>
> So let’s take the argument in support of the locked flag. It promotes teamwork. Now there’s an icon over the head of the flag carrier as well as Jeff Seitzer verbally compelling the player to escort and protect the flag carrier. This will of course lead to better team play amongst players that may struggle with objective gametypes. It may even lead to more players finding enjoyment in objective gametypes and spend more time there, leading to higher populations. This is definitively a good thing.
>
> Additionally, a locked flag with pistol backup encourages the carrier to make good decisions regarding path, and rely on aforementioned teamplay. You won’t make a haphazard ill-advised pull, because you know that you can’t just drop the flag and go mano-y-mano with your assailants. You can defend yourself but the rockets are shelved.
>
> Also, juggling is simply ridiculous. It really is. It may be skillful. It may have been necessary. But it really is silly. Having normal player speed, as well as pistol backup totally negates the reason for juggling anyway.
>
> So lets talk about why a locked flag is a bad idea.
>
> Fundamentally, a player should not be locked into anything. You can change weapons with a downed opponent. You can change loadouts in between spawns to suit gameplay style or flow of a single game. You can change your helmet and boots. So why can’t you change your mind about whether or not you want to run the flag right this second? Or even better, if it’s a tactical move where one player moves the flag to one part of the map and then passes it to a teammate and picks up support duties, this should totally be a viable allowable tactic.
>
> Being able to put down the flag will not in any real way prevent the teamwork enhancing attributes 343i obviously wants to include. You can still have the icons over the players head on the HUD. You can have the announcing. Being able to put the flag down does not take away from this.
>
> What happens if your team that is escorting you all gets killed? Now, you can’t decide to make a strategic withdrawal, allowing the other team to return while preserving your spawn to reset. There is just no reason why the player should be cornered by something like this in any way.
>
> I do have a compromise in mind. How about having to hold the reload button down for one second before the flag is released? I think this could keep the tactical aspects of flag running while still enabling the player to adjust on the fly to gameplay direction.
>
> Thoughts?

You just copied this from another thread and posted it as a whole new topic, why?

3

> > After careful consideration all day, with the caveat that I have NOT played Halo 4 yet, and after watching Bravo’s full video multiple times as well as the 343 official 30 second video, I have to say that I do not support the “Locked” flag on pickup. To promote the better variety and choice of gameplay path, the flag must be able to be put down.
> >
> > Notice I did not say “juggled” but put down.
> >
> > So let’s take the argument in support of the locked flag. It promotes teamwork. Now there’s an icon over the head of the flag carrier as well as Jeff Seitzer verbally compelling the player to escort and protect the flag carrier. This will of course lead to better team play amongst players that may struggle with objective gametypes. It may even lead to more players finding enjoyment in objective gametypes and spend more time there, leading to higher populations. This is definitively a good thing.
> >
> > Additionally, a locked flag with pistol backup encourages the carrier to make good decisions regarding path, and rely on aforementioned teamplay. You won’t make a haphazard ill-advised pull, because you know that you can’t just drop the flag and go mano-y-mano with your assailants. You can defend yourself but the rockets are shelved.
> >
> > Also, juggling is simply ridiculous. It really is. It may be skillful. It may have been necessary. But it really is silly. Having normal player speed, as well as pistol backup totally negates the reason for juggling anyway.
> >
> > So lets talk about why a locked flag is a bad idea.
> >
> > Fundamentally, a player should not be locked into anything. You can change weapons with a downed opponent. You can change loadouts in between spawns to suit gameplay style or flow of a single game. You can change your helmet and boots. So why can’t you change your mind about whether or not you want to run the flag right this second? Or even better, if it’s a tactical move where one player moves the flag to one part of the map and then passes it to a teammate and picks up support duties, this should totally be a viable allowable tactic.
> >
> > Being able to put down the flag will not in any real way prevent the teamwork enhancing attributes 343i obviously wants to include. You can still have the icons over the players head on the HUD. You can have the announcing. Being able to put the flag down does not take away from this.
> >
> > What happens if your team that is escorting you all gets killed? Now, you can’t decide to make a strategic withdrawal, allowing the other team to return while preserving your spawn to reset. There is just no reason why the player should be cornered by something like this in any way.
> >
> > I do have a compromise in mind. How about having to hold the reload button down for one second before the flag is released? I think this could keep the tactical aspects of flag running while still enabling the player to adjust on the fly to gameplay direction.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> You just copied this from another thread and posted it as a whole new topic, why?

the chances of this idea getting around, maybe 343 will see it?

4

> > After careful consideration all day, with the caveat that I have NOT played Halo 4 yet, and after watching Bravo’s full video multiple times as well as the 343 official 30 second video, I have to say that I do not support the “Locked” flag on pickup. To promote the better variety and choice of gameplay path, the flag must be able to be put down.
> >
> > Notice I did not say “juggled” but put down.
> >
> > So let’s take the argument in support of the locked flag. It promotes teamwork. Now there’s an icon over the head of the flag carrier as well as Jeff Seitzer verbally compelling the player to escort and protect the flag carrier. This will of course lead to better team play amongst players that may struggle with objective gametypes. It may even lead to more players finding enjoyment in objective gametypes and spend more time there, leading to higher populations. This is definitively a good thing.
> >
> > Additionally, a locked flag with pistol backup encourages the carrier to make good decisions regarding path, and rely on aforementioned teamplay. You won’t make a haphazard ill-advised pull, because you know that you can’t just drop the flag and go mano-y-mano with your assailants. You can defend yourself but the rockets are shelved.
> >
> > Also, juggling is simply ridiculous. It really is. It may be skillful. It may have been necessary. But it really is silly. Having normal player speed, as well as pistol backup totally negates the reason for juggling anyway.
> >
> > So lets talk about why a locked flag is a bad idea.
> >
> > Fundamentally, a player should not be locked into anything. You can change weapons with a downed opponent. You can change loadouts in between spawns to suit gameplay style or flow of a single game. You can change your helmet and boots. So why can’t you change your mind about whether or not you want to run the flag right this second? Or even better, if it’s a tactical move where one player moves the flag to one part of the map and then passes it to a teammate and picks up support duties, this should totally be a viable allowable tactic.
> >
> > Being able to put down the flag will not in any real way prevent the teamwork enhancing attributes 343i obviously wants to include. You can still have the icons over the players head on the HUD. You can have the announcing. Being able to put the flag down does not take away from this.
> >
> > What happens if your team that is escorting you all gets killed? Now, you can’t decide to make a strategic withdrawal, allowing the other team to return while preserving your spawn to reset. There is just no reason why the player should be cornered by something like this in any way.
> >
> > I do have a compromise in mind. How about having to hold the reload button down for one second before the flag is released? I think this could keep the tactical aspects of flag running while still enabling the player to adjust on the fly to gameplay direction.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> You just copied this from another thread and posted it as a whole new topic, why?

Its actually a good and well thought out post.

This seems much more valuble as a thread then one in a thread, it wouldn’t get noticed as much.

And, someone reccommended him to do it.

5

> > > After careful consideration all day, with the caveat that I have NOT played Halo 4 yet, and after watching Bravo’s full video multiple times as well as the 343 official 30 second video, I have to say that I do not support the “Locked” flag on pickup. To promote the better variety and choice of gameplay path, the flag must be able to be put down.
> > >
> > > Notice I did not say “juggled” but put down.
> > >
> > > So let’s take the argument in support of the locked flag. It promotes teamwork. Now there’s an icon over the head of the flag carrier as well as Jeff Seitzer verbally compelling the player to escort and protect the flag carrier. This will of course lead to better team play amongst players that may struggle with objective gametypes. It may even lead to more players finding enjoyment in objective gametypes and spend more time there, leading to higher populations. This is definitively a good thing.
> > >
> > > Additionally, a locked flag with pistol backup encourages the carrier to make good decisions regarding path, and rely on aforementioned teamplay. You won’t make a haphazard ill-advised pull, because you know that you can’t just drop the flag and go mano-y-mano with your assailants. You can defend yourself but the rockets are shelved.
> > >
> > > Also, juggling is simply ridiculous. It really is. It may be skillful. It may have been necessary. But it really is silly. Having normal player speed, as well as pistol backup totally negates the reason for juggling anyway.
> > >
> > > So lets talk about why a locked flag is a bad idea.
> > >
> > > Fundamentally, a player should not be locked into anything. You can change weapons with a downed opponent. You can change loadouts in between spawns to suit gameplay style or flow of a single game. You can change your helmet and boots. So why can’t you change your mind about whether or not you want to run the flag right this second? Or even better, if it’s a tactical move where one player moves the flag to one part of the map and then passes it to a teammate and picks up support duties, this should totally be a viable allowable tactic.
> > >
> > > Being able to put down the flag will not in any real way prevent the teamwork enhancing attributes 343i obviously wants to include. You can still have the icons over the players head on the HUD. You can have the announcing. Being able to put the flag down does not take away from this.
> > >
> > > What happens if your team that is escorting you all gets killed? Now, you can’t decide to make a strategic withdrawal, allowing the other team to return while preserving your spawn to reset. There is just no reason why the player should be cornered by something like this in any way.
> > >
> > > I do have a compromise in mind. How about having to hold the reload button down for one second before the flag is released? I think this could keep the tactical aspects of flag running while still enabling the player to adjust on the fly to gameplay direction.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> >
> > You just copied this from another thread and posted it as a whole new topic, why?
>
> Its actually a good and well thought out post.
>
> This seems much more valuble as a thread then one in a thread, it wouldn’t get noticed as much.
>
>
> And, someone reccommended him to do it.

me! lol

6

I see valid reasons for both sides, but I would like to be able to put the flag down. I think your idea is a good compromise! Everybody, post and keep it at the top + thank him, get this post noticed, I really like the idea.

7

A “locked” flag ruins alot of strategy that is in CTF.

8

> A “locked” flag ruins alot of strategy that is in CTF.

And brings in new strategies.

I wonder how this new CTF will work in the final game. How populated will it be, teamwork, stuff like that.

I think it has the potential to encourage more teamwork, but that depends heavily on the players. Hopefully Halo 4 has a good winning incentive.

9

> > A “locked” flag ruins alot of strategy that is in CTF.
>
> And brings in new strategies.
>
> I wonder how this new CTF will work in the final game. How populated will it be, teamwork, stuff like that.
>
>
>
> I think it has the potential to encourage more teamwork, but that depends heavily on the players. Hopefully Halo 4 has a good winning incentive.

Ah, I see, you think not being able to drop the objective inspires teamwork. So they add three new features, magnum, speed up, and sticky flag, and you still think this? Having a gun while holding the flag, your team doesn’t need to protect you anymore. Speed? Again, your team doesn’t need to protect you, you can carry yourself. Three, there are multiple tactics that require flag dropping, I can think of none that require sticky flag…

10

I don’t like the idea of being locked into holding a flag at ALL. A pistol is no match for a BR or DMR. You’ll lose every one on one battle. It may help in organized team games, but what about the majority of games where you’re matched up with randoms? There’s no coordination. Actual teamwork is a rare occurrence. Sometimes a flag stealer can get lucky and cap it all by himself, but being locked into holding it will surely prevent that from ever happening.

I think it’s a bad idea. I think it will get a lot of negative feedback, and hopefully 343 will change it.

11

Currently I am neutral about this topic. Until I hear more info, I withhold my judgement. I can see both sides to the argument, and I understand where the two are coming from. The one thing I definitely don’t like, though, is the automatic flag pickup. That’s just silly. If I walk over the flag, don’t make me pick it up. I’ll pick it up if I want to, don’t force me to.

12

> I don’t like the idea of being locked into holding a flag at ALL. A pistol is no match for a BR or DMR. You’ll lose every one on one battle. It may help in organized team games, but what about the majority of games where you’re matched up with randoms? There’s no coordination. Actual teamwork is a rare occurrence. Sometimes a flag stealer can get lucky and cap it all by himself, but being locked into holding it will surely prevent that from ever happening.
>
> I think it’s a bad idea. I think it will get a lot of negative feedback, and hopefully 343 will change it.

I also hope it gets changed. I just don’t see how being Locked into holding and running the flag is a good thing, especially since you can pitch the oddball all over the map like a rugby ball.

13

I don’t see how people are defending it.

Especially since everyone here wanted a worthless Magnum.

14

i see your point. a lot of people just shoot down the idea without giving any reasons. if juggling the true root of the problem what they should do is make it where you would have to hold down the button for a certain length of time. i can totally see it working where flag carriers could still drop the flag to fight, to run, to give it someone else and where we wont hear FLAG DROP FLAG TAKEN FLAG DROP FLAG TAKEN FLAG DROP FLAG TAKEN FLAG DROP FLAG TAKEN FLAG DROP FLAG TAKEN, you get my point

15

I’m willing to wait and see how it plays out at launch before I make a real judgement. Right now I’m on the fence: it takes some things away and adds some new things (both good and bad). I have to play it for some time to get a real idea of how I feel about it.

16

It is said that the locked flag thing was just to promote getting used to the pistol with the flag.

17

There are just a few things they could do to make the Flag in Halo 4 as it is now better.

1: Make it so you only get a pistol if you have one. Otherwise you get whatever 1 handed weapon you have on you (if you have 2, the one you have out. And if you don’t have one, you carry it classic Halo style.

2: Allow players to drop the flag. HOWEVER with this added focus on having a Pistol while holding the flag, make it so you drop the flag and keep your weapon out (no animation or pause in firing either), and would have to press Y AGAIN and go through a whole weapon swap animation to change to your other gun. If you don’t have a sidearm, and are just holding the flag, make it so you have a little animation pulling your gun out when you drop the flag so there’s a bit of a delay.

18

[deleted]

19

What’s a caveat?

20

It could turn out to be a problem from a competitive standpoint. Say you grab the flag and you have rockets, and you start running it and the opposing team starts running after you instead of being able to A. Pass the flag to a teammate and you cover him with rockets, or B. You drop the flag kill the enemies with your rockets, and continue to run the flag. You’re forced to run hoping that the opposing team sucks and won’t be able to kill you.