> > 2533274922885329;5:
> > Why does there need to be a level playing field in a competitive environment? 343 would be the ones driving a wedge between the community by adding this to Infinite on PC. Even if you see it as just a single player game or a casual game, what does adding auto aim do besides lower the skill ceiling? Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you?
> > Players should be able to play however they want, and people shouldn’t be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because “Halo was on console first”.
> > As for where i draw the line? I suppose competitive playlists if anything. I dont know why controller users clutch their pearls at the thought of not having auto aim. All it does is lower the skill ceiling and make good plays/players indistinguishable because the game is LITERALLY AIMING FOR YOU. All I hear from that is “im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are”.
> > Also here’s a newsflash for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim. If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did by having the game aim for you. This is really comparable to everyone getting a participation trophy, and people defending lazy game development.
> > If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo ‘esports’ scene is dead at the moment. The 343 posts about their plans to build the esports community up gave me hope, but I guarantee it wont go anywhere when you have 100% of the pros using a controller for aim assist.
> Okay, let’s pull out the point I agree with:
> - “for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim” - Yes that’s literally my point. You have a huge section of the community who have never had the option before. You can’t exclude them overnight by requiring them to switch. If what you propose is the route to go down (and I’m not commenting either way here) then it has to be a gradual journey otherwise you’ll just alienate players who have long histories with the franchise. - "If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did " Precisely. Yes, there are some controller-specific assists, but it’s not like they’re going to turn you into a pro overnight. At most it turns you from missing to hitting that crucial clutch headshot. It doesn’t help you with map knowledge or traversal, communication, etc. Sure it means that in those 1-on-1 duel situations you might win more than 50/50, but how much of competitive Halo actually boils down to those duels vs coordination to give you the upper hand in engagements either numerically, weapon-wise, or ?Next, the points I disagree with:
> - "people shouldn’t be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because “Halo was on console first” - nowhere am I suggesting that forcing anyone to use any kind of device is a good idea - I’m simply pointing out that the community has grown up with consoles and controllers - even now we’re only just seeing console MCC get M&K support. My point wasn’t ‘Halo was on console first, so go hang lulz’, but that a lot of players have only been used to it with controllers. As I understand the strategy for Infinite (and seeing MCC as a testbed for it): everyone should be able to play on the device they want with the input they want. If you scale that strategy up to the competitive end the question then becomes how to do that fairly? Is it, as you suggest, removing any support for controllers which recognises that raw M&K vs raw controllers will be an unfair matchup? I’d argue no as all it’s doing is forcing all pro players to use M&K and your whole point here seems to be that you don’t like the idea that forcing pro players to use controller to be competitive is bad (which I agree with). Instead I’d argue it’s about finding settings which achieve the right balance wherein there is no inherent skillgap between a M&K and controller player. - “All I hear from that is “im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are”.” - nowhere is anyone here saying that, but you have also explicitly said there’s an inherent advantage to M&K before player skill even enters into it. Within MCC you have crossplay and input-based matchmaking preferences - I presume Infinite will too. - “If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo ‘esports’ scene is dead at the moment.” - Woah now. that’s a red flag right there. Nowhere should you, me, or anyone be telling people how or what they should be playing. How is anyone going to get into any form of competitive Halo with that kind of gatekeeping going on. You have to get people into Arena in the first place before you can expect them to last in the competitive lists. I’d be the first to admit that as a player the competitive playlists are absolutely not my natural home, but how do you expect me to improve without SBMM so i can play against people at and around my level? - “Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you” - is it actually aiming for you? No, sure it’s the equivalent of the target having a slightly bigger hitbox, but that’s as far as it goes. - “people defending lazy game development” - Err… hang on any form of assist for a controller is additional work. How is that lazy? Infinite will be the FIRST Halo FPS game developed in parallel for Console and PC at once. Every other experience you have to date (i.e. MCC) was designed for console and controller and has since been made available. Your entire argument sounds to me like rests on Infinite having exactly the same experience as MCC, which I find highly doubtful.I completely understand and sympathise with your position, but for Infinite we simply do not have a full understanding of what is being done. If this conversation were in MCC I’d be saying ‘let’s talk parameters to reduce any supposed controller advantage’, but for Infinite we don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes with the testers or pro teams. I am sure they’ll be working on it. This type of tweaking, however, sounds like the type of thing we can look at once a competitive scene exists for the game. So yes, for MCC let’s have the discussion, is what there is now right given input-based and platform-based matchmaking preferences? Or is work needed so that there’s no inherent skill gap modifer based on input?
Extremely well put. OP is saying some stuff that just flat out does not make any sense and is dismissive at best.
Halo is a classic Console experience and even if the rest of the franchise is also on PC after Infinite, a large majority of players will be using a controller. Halo was one of the pioneers of console FPS experiences, and no matter what systems it will go on, it will always have a sizeable Xbox community that fondly enjoyed their time.
Also that “go to Campaign/Firefight” remark was absurd. Campaign and Firefight are both worthy gametypes you shouldnt be shamed for enjoying. Competitive Halo multiplayer is not the superior gametype. Casual slayer is the most played Halo gametype, not competitive.