THIS is how you get YOUR maps in Matchmaking

Community General Discussion
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If you actually care about getting your map into matchmaking then you will read this entire post (as well as replies), word for word and get very active in this thread. I’m a designer for 3 of the maps in Team Slayer so I have a strong grasp of the system and what it takes. If you have any questions or would like tips or advice then ask me in this thread. You can also bring up criticisms and I’ll address those too. This post was originally written as a reply to http://halo.xbox.com/forums/games/f/9/t/31571.aspx

Let me start by saying that if you are judging community maps in matchmaking based on the Community Slayer playlist that they had a while back, then you’ve got a bit of a skewed view of the actual process as a good majority of those maps were selected by Bungie based on the forgetacular contest. However if you are judging community maps in matchmaking by what is actually there then that is fine because most of those got there through a community based system.

How most of the current maps in MM (not including Abridged [Forgetacular winner], Treasury [Forgetacular winner], Atom [Experimental Community Map Integration], and Cliffhanger [Made by a Bungie Employee]) were through a system of what we call Community Cartographers. Community Cartographers is a group of hand picked community “leaders” that find quality maps built by the community to submit to Bungie for consideration in matchmaking. Bungie got the final say on what went in, but the Community Cartographer’s job was to sift through all of the community maps and find what they think would work best in matchmaking and show it to Bungie’s MM sustainment team for consideration.

343i has not yet publicly announced how they will be putting community maps into matchmaking mainly because they are busy with the TU and CEA. However there are rumors and talk that they will be continuing the Community Cartographer system, but improving it in some way and adding new people to help cover more ground. The more Community Cartographers they have the more ground they can cover, but also the more maps they have to sift through so finding the right amount to have is crucial to having a successful system as well as picking the right people for the job.

Now to actually get a Community Cartographer to submit your map you have to meet their qualifications for what they think is quality matchmaking material and you have to make sure they see your map and play it. While this may seem a bit biased the Cartographers are selected in hopes that these “leaders” already know what the best maps out there are. Each Cartographer has a different process… some sift through forge communities, some have a submission system where they accept maps to look at, and some only submit the ones they are most familiar with.

So what is your best bet to get your map into matchmaking? Make it good for ALL types of players and advertise it well. If your map is fun for your friends and a few randoms it might not be fun for another type of player. If someone tells you they don’t like your map for particular reasons then address those reasons or give a good reason why things weren’t done that way, don’t ignore them. And while many of you think it is “unfair” that some maps get attention and others don’t, it is because the designers don’t put work into advertising their content. That is one of the single most important things to do to get your content out there. Games like Halo/COD/Battlefield/WoW/Starcraft/etc only get to be the most popular because they were advertised. The same way works with your maps. So the more people that are familiar with your map the better chance you have to get it into matchmaking. Advertising is crucial in almost everything in the real world and this situation is no different.

There are a lot of things to help you advertise your map. Build your reputation. Become a part of a community and once you make friends then show those friends. If they like it they will show their friends and so on and so forth. Join custom games often and ask if you can throw up your map for testing to get opinions. And most importantly if people tell you they don’t like your map then don’t shun them, but listen to what they have to say. It is important that you make friends and don’t just join a site and drop your map in. People are more likely to look at your content if they know who you are. There are thousands of tricks to advertise, but I only have so much time. If you keep asking questions I’ll keep giving more tips.

Getting your map into matchmaking is hardwork. The more effort you put into making your map good AND advertising it the higher chance there is that your map will get into matchmaking… I guarantee it. Use this thread to your advantage. Ask me tips for anything and I will give you what I can. Again if you are serious about getting your map into matchmaking then stay active in this thread and read every post.

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why don’t you receomend good places for people to start building a reputation?
most people will go straigt to forgehub and that place, in my opinion, is a horrible place to start.

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> why don’t you receomend good places for people to start building a reputation?
> most people will go straigt to forgehub and that place, in my opinion, is a horrible place to start.

Well AgentPaperCraft has compiled a pretty good list of “Great Forge Communities”: http://halo.xbox.com/forums/games/f/9/t/10194.aspx

As for my personal recommendations, in general I suggest finding a relatively small group unlike Forgehub. Why? Because it is easier to make friends and build your reputation. Friends are more likely to look at your maps and criticize them to help you improve. The following communities I can vouch for as I have been a part of all of them.

We can start with ReachingPerfection.com’s forums. RP is my personal blog where I talk about game design, level design, and the development of my new game. The forums are filled with many designers who love advanced design concepts like traffic control, combat congestion, spatial dynamics, effective spawning, navigational techniques, etc, etc. Most of us started as forgers (most still are), but we all enjoy general game/level design and take what we learn from other games and apply it to our content, like maps we make in forge. The designers here are honest and give great feedback because they expect the same to be done for them because we believe that it is important to be told your flaws so you can improve your skills. Hence the name of the site Reaching Perfection.

Satyros @ http://halocharts.com/grouplist.php?id=4984 is a group focused strictly on getting maps in matchmaking. While it may seem like it is closed membership this is just to stop bots from joining. All you have to do is make a HaloCharts account and go back to the group page and click join. Obi Wan Stevobi will accept your membership in a short period. I help moderate over there and there you can get inside info on the Community Cartographers. This place has been slow since 343i took over because there has been no official announcement on the community map integration system. But it is still a good place to know about for when things to start back up so you can post your map there for consideration and to get feedback for improvements.

XForgery.com is a relatively small community now, but filled with a ton of very social people that like to have fun. They host many events such as Testing Nights, Competitive Friday game nights, etc, etc. They are very event based and very laid back and casual for those forgers who like a focus around casual gameplay… mainly mini games or non-competitive standard gametypes.

Blueprint @ http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/400941/Group/GroupHome.aspx is a closed membership group with a focus on getting maps in matchmaking as well. I’m not quite sure if they are still accepting members but like Satyros they are very focused and do playtesting pretty often.

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Blueprint is still open and active enough to the point where it is self sufficient.

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i have made a few serious maps for proper use, and posted them on here for advice on how to improve them but not many people commented back, they were downloaded but i was never told how to improve them and im pretty sure they could have been improved.

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I have no expectations that my maps will EVER be considered for matchmaking and i kinda like that,…underground community maps…

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I agree with what you said Godly. I think they do need some more Community Cartographers, to help them out, because there’s lots of great maps that get submitted to them, but there’s not enough time for them to work with everyone to make their maps better. And if you’re looking for people to help test your maps and play customs, then I’d suggest Satyros & Reaching Perfection and of course Xforgery’s Tuesday night tests, which is always reliable.

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> i have made a few serious maps for proper use, and posted them on here for advice on how to improve them but not many people commented back, they were downloaded but i was never told how to improve them and im pretty sure they could have been improved.

This is why it is important to join a designer focused community and build your reputation. If you make friends in a community with other forgers then you will be able to get their feedback and even play on your map with them to get feedback in game… which is much more valuable and more likely than in a forum.

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> I agree with what you said Godly. I think they do need some more Community Cartographers, to help them out, because there’s lots of great maps that get submitted to them, but there’s not enough time for them to work with everyone to make their maps better. And if you’re looking for people to help test your maps and play customs, then I’d suggest Satyros & Reaching Perfection and of course Xforgery’s Tuesday night tests, which is always reliable.

The problem with TNT is they give you a measly paragraph of feedback and rarely answer your questions. To get the most out of TNT I’d strongly recommend bieng in the game with them physically.

OT: Thanks for this thread OP it really helped a lot :smiley:

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Good thread GP.

With respect to many of those fan made maps in slayer currently though, I think many of them stink and my friends agree. It’s really killed the fun for me when playing slayer.

I’d rather fan made maps go into a community map playlist itself.

Beyond the Cartographers giving their thumbs up, how much of actual play testing goes on before those maps are selected to be in a playlist? Again, with respect, it looks like some are rushed through.

Visually some of the maps look nice, but the playability stinks. There needs to be a much better integration of visual/playability.

I don’t know if this is the process now so maybe you can correct me, but once a map is submitted by a cartographer, does it then go to 343 and they playtest it first, or does it go right into matchmaking?

It seems our friends at Bungie (who I love BTW) rushed a lot of these maps through to the playlists.

Like I said before, it really has dampened my enjoyment for playing in team slayer.

Part of the issue also is that there are so many fan maps that you rarely get the chance to play on the developer designed maps anymore. Plus, I as well as many others are bored with the GREY map items. That’s not the fan’s fault mind you, but really, they are start to blend in to one another.

Also, with all of those fan made maps you have to learn weapons spawns, etc. And I have to say, some weapons, MANY, spawn way too quickly.

So beyond checking a map visually, and how it plays, are things like weapon frequency of spawn checked? Not to mention player spawn locations, objective locations, etc.?

This isn’t a total knock on player maps either some are good. I love Wayont for instance. I was quite the forger in H3, but all of those grey items in Forgeworld just started to bore me quickly and I haven’t forged like I thought I was going to, in Reach. Even though the power to forge is exponentially better.

Respectfully,
Sal

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Great thread. I will definitely partake. I do need to start better advertising my BTB map. After the rebuild, you will surely see me in this thread and you will likely see some adverts on many forums for it.

Can’t wait to see what comes through this thread. Let’s see it community!

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Thanks GP and will you all take a look at my map Unreached, I think it would go great on MM. Please check it out and thanks GP for explaining how I get it on MM.

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First of all for all of those thanking me for the thread, it is really no problem. I’m here to use my success to help you guys achieve the success you are looking for. I’m a busy guy with a newborn to take care of and I’m programming my own game for the xbox 360, but I remember being like you guys so I want to help you out if I can find that time.

> Good thread GP.
>
> With respect to many of those fan made maps in slayer currently though, I think many of them stink and my friends agree. It’s really killed the fun for me when playing slayer.
>
> I’d rather fan made maps go into a community map playlist itself.
>
> Beyond the Cartographers giving their thumbs up, how much of actual play testing goes on before those maps are selected to be in a playlist? Again, with respect, it looks like some are rushed through.
>
> Visually some of the maps look nice, but the playability stinks. There needs to be a much better integration of visual/playability.
>
> I don’t know if this is the process now so maybe you can correct me, but once a map is submitted by a cartographer, does it then go to 343 and they playtest it first, or does it go right into matchmaking?
>
> It seems our friends at Bungie (who I love BTW) rushed a lot of these maps through to the playlists.
>
> Like I said before, it really has dampened my enjoyment for playing in team slayer.
>
> Part of the issue also is that there are so many fan maps that you rarely get the chance to play on the developer designed maps anymore. Plus, I as well as many others are bored with the GREY map items. That’s not the fan’s fault mind you, but really, they are start to blend in to one another.
>
> Also, with all of those fan made maps you have to learn weapons spawns, etc. And I have to say, some weapons, MANY, spawn way too quickly.
>
> So beyond checking a map visually, and how it plays, are things like weapon frequency of spawn checked? Not to mention player spawn locations, objective locations, etc.?
>
> This isn’t a total knock on player maps either some are good. I love Wayont for instance. I was quite the forger in H3, but all of those grey items in Forgeworld just started to bore me quickly and I haven’t forged like I thought I was going to, in Reach. Even though the power to forge is exponentially better.
>
> Respectfully,
> Sal

Thanks for the great reply RM Jedi. First of all how a map is tested before it is submitted is strongly dependent on who the designer is and who the cartographer that wants to submit it is. Most of the cartographers that I’ve worked with I know test the maps that they’ve submitted atleast several times before they submit it. Obi, Homeboyd, Fyrewulff, and Nokyard all did great jobs testing the maps they wanted to put in. As for the other cartographers and map designers I can’t really give you any info on that.

After a map is submitted to Bungie by a cartographer it is initially screened by some group of employees at Bungie. If it passes the initial screening then the matchmaking sustainment team tests it as much as it pleases them. So at the very least all of the maps in matchmaking have been tested by Bungie and ultimately it is their call. As far as 343 goes there is currently no OFFICIAL word on who they are doing things. I know a bit here and there, sadly that is just word of mouth and is partly privileged information. For now let’s say that there is no current system in place to get community maps into matchmaking through 343i. They are a bit busy with the TU and CEA after all.

So again I personally check everything I can possibly think of for my maps; weapon spawn times, amount of traffic in an area, weapon visibility, ease of access, etc, etc. But I can’t guarantee that for every one of the maps in MM right now… just Affinity, Think Twice, and Chateau. As for maps getting boring I do completely understand that. Personally I favor gameplay over the looks of things so that gray doesn’t bother me as much. Regardless I’ve tried to give my maps a different environment from the other ones. Think Twice feels different from Chateau and that feels different from Affinity. All we can do right now is hope that we get another easily forgeable map with a different feel to it.

> Thanks GP and will you all take a look at my map Unreached, I think it would go great on MM. Please check it out and thanks GP for explaining how I get it on MM.

I’ll tell you what since you asked so nicely I will do a writeup on it with some of the obvious stuff to make your map better based on the walkthrough. Like I said I don’t have much time these days so I won’t be flying through it in forge. But I can point out some obvious stuff that needs fixing in order to help your map improve based on the walkthrough vid you did.

For those of you who are still reading every post in this thread I commend you. Every once in a while I want to do a review of a map and the designer’s methods of getting his/her map out there. When I post these reviews I want you to read every word of them because you could learn from other people’s mistakes and apply the advice to your own creations. I will start with Your Face 1212’s map Unreached… read his post and watch the flythrough and wait for what I have to say about the map and his methods of advertising it. I’ll try to write something up tonight. In the meantime go sign up at ReachingPerfection.com’s forums and introduce yourself. :wink: You won’t regret it.

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True story. Think Twice was an epic project = ). Looking foward to forging soon again. (This time it’s the truth!)

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> Thanks GP and will you all take a look at my map Unreached, I think it would go great on MM. Please check it out and thanks GP for explaining how I get it on MM.

I took a look today. I have two main questions:

Have you tested it with each and every game type you set it up to support?

Is there a specific game type you want to see it play in MM? Slayer? Bomb/Flag/StockPile? Invasion? Infection?

I notice you had a number of objects through out with quite a variety of game type supported, but my quick fly through analysis did not afford me time to sift through and see which ones were setup correctly. For example, I found where you had the bombs for red and blue team spawn, but I did not see where the bomb goals were setup at.

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I’ll read this after. :slight_smile: No time right now.

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Correction: You are the designer of 3 horrible maps in Team Slayer.

The only maps that are actually good for competitive are the maps MLG made and 343i should use those maps in Team Slayer aswell.
Their recent Pit remake knocks any forge world map of the map (get it?)

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> > i have made a few serious maps for proper use, and posted them on here for advice on how to improve them but not many people commented back, they were downloaded but i was never told how to improve them and im pretty sure they could have been improved.
>
> This is why it is important to join a designer focused community and build your reputation. If you make friends in a community with other forgers then you will be able to get their feedback and even play on your map with them to get feedback in game… which is much more valuable and more likely than in a forum.

where do you suggest i should look to find these people?

i have tried forge hub but it was confusing to make a post, im not even bothering on the bungie forum.

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Personally, I can’t see any new community maps in Matchmaking until early 2012, due to anniversary, but I sure hope they get a good system up and running, the CC system was quite efficient.

My maps that may be matchmaking worth would be Habeas Corpus, I think you played on it at an earlier phase…
And my latest map is called Dispersion, it just hit alpha, but its progressing nicely.

I hope they give us some cool Forge tools on Hang em high, though :smiley:

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> Correction: You are the designer of 3 horrible maps in Team Slayer.
>
> The only maps that are actually good for competitive are the maps MLG made and 343i should use those maps in Team Slayer aswell.
> Their recent Pit remake knocks any forge world map of the map (get it?)

I’m glad you enjoyed them! : )