It’s really hard to find a good game of Halo Wars anymore. Usually games nowadays don’t last for more than 3-5 minutes. I admit that I fall prey to rushes too, but it’s mostly my teammates. It’s just really saddening that I’m starting to build up my army and bases and such, then my teammates started getting cheesed by a Covenant leader. Usually they are a low level too and don’t know how to retaliate, so they just quit. Then I’m left to a 1v3, so I choose to quit as well.
The main point I’m trying to make is, I’m sick of not being able to actually play the game. I know the low-level players will never disappear, hell, we were all like that once. But I just wish people would go a little bit easier and not rush so much. It’s to the point where I feel like this game is dead, and I don’t want it to die off. It’s a great game, and it should live on.
If this forum isn’t completely dead as well, hit me up sometime. I’ll be glad to play a legitimate game of Halo Wars.
Well that is the glory of UA 2s and 3s, get people on your team who go straight for a scarab and flying prophet but then insta resign when the enemy has some boost banshees at their base. I’m pretty sure UA has always been like that, your best bet to find good games is to get teammates who will play 2s and 3s with you.
You know what saddens me? Getting a nice build order, with a perfect blend of economy and unit production, walking over to my opponents base, adrenaline pumping ready for a nice battle, only to discover they think their attitude problem will protect all the heavy supply pads they’ve spent the first five minutes of the game building…
I don’t mean to be a jerk but I’m sick of all these complaints about ‘rushers’: Your opponent is allowed to build whatever he wants, attack you whenever he wants and try to kill you any way the game allows. If this concept of playing to win offends you, I suggest you find some like minded players and you play custom games together, because it will always be this way.
> You know what saddens me? Getting a nice build order, with a perfect blend of economy and unit production, walking over to my opponents base, adrenaline pumping ready for a nice battle, only to discover they think their attitude problem will protect all the heavy supply pads they’ve spent the first five minutes of the game building…
>
> I don’t mean to be a jerk but I’m sick of all these complaints about ‘rushers’: Your opponent is allowed to build whatever he wants, attack you whenever he wants and try to kill you any way the game allows. If this concept of playing to win offends you, I suggest you find some like minded players and you play custom games together, because it will always be this way.
My issue is that the most common rush [tanks and/or Warthogs with Banshees] is unbalanced.
It’s impossible to defend against a hoard of Scorpions and Banshees at five minutes into the game, when you’ve spent every second until that point fighting off a Covenant leader. It’s -Yoink-. An easy fix would be to make Vampires available at tech one, wolverines and cobras available at tech two, tanks prohibited until tech three and possibly having to pay $400 for the Covenant leader when the temple goes up the first time [perhaps dropping the price of the temple to compensate].
You’re right; people should be able to play however they want - but the rush tactic I mentioned is exploiting flaws in the game, which I’m certain would have been corrected, if Ensemble was still in business.
Ok no. Reducing the cost of the initial Temple would cushion the blow, but it would still cause a problem. Maybe having the Covi pay 150 right off the bat would be manageable, but not if he’s spending more than 600 in the first couple of minutes into the game-- not to mention that change would effectively ruin any hopes of playing a good Prophet, even with a 150 Temple cost. Charging too much too early would be horribly unbalanced and make rushing not viable in the slightest, which, no matter how bad someone is, taking a possible tactic out of the game completely should be seen as an obvious game imbalance.
Also, the Tank should not be T3. If they did that, then Canis should not be an upgrade, they should come with the Tank. Either way, low numbers of Stock Tanks can die to large Gren pushes, they’re not strong at T2 in the slightest. And, do you know how impossible it would be to stop a Brute rush with Forge or even with Cutter on certain maps if Tanks were T3? How on earth are you suppose to stop Hog pushes with Tanks being T3? You’re creating more problems by wanting that than you’re solving. Think about it, allowing the UNSC to build Cobras/Wolverines at T2 would also completely unbalance the game. By trying this with the Tank change, you’re making anti-vehicle units able to be produced before standard vehicle units, that’s moronic.
And, the Banshee/Vamp thing… No. Don’t ever suggest there be a counter unit able to be built on the same or lower tech level as the unit it’s countering. If you want to rebalance this game, try these changes:
Prophet gains a slight speed boost, still not on par with the Chief
Rebuilding leaders takes about 20 seconds longer
D-Bombs last for 20-30 seconds, not a minute, but they have a 40% reduced cooldown
Reduce the resistance of Grenadier Hogs to Tanks
Infantry units all gain a large speed buff and upgrade costs are made cheaper by tiers
Non-upgraded Vamps still do damage when Stasising
Banshee Boosting speed is nerfed by having an increased acceleration time, top speed remains the same
> Ok no. Reducing the cost of the initial Temple would cushion the blow, but it would still cause a problem. Maybe having the Covi pay 150 right off the bat would be manageable, but not if he’s spending more than 600 in the first couple of minutes into the game-- not to mention that change would effectively ruin any hopes of playing a good Prophet, even with a 150 Temple cost. Charging too much too early would be horribly unbalanced and make rushing not viable in the slightest, which, no matter how bad someone is, taking a possible tactic out of the game completely should be seen as an obvious game imbalance.
>
> Also, the Tank should not be T3. If they did that, then Canis should not be an upgrade, they should come with the Tank. Either way, low numbers of Stock Tanks can die to large Gren pushes, they’re not strong at T2 in the slightest. And, do you know how impossible it would be to stop a Brute rush with Forge or even with Cutter on certain maps if Tanks were T3? How on earth are you suppose to stop Hog pushes with Tanks being T3? You’re creating more problems by wanting that than you’re solving. Think about it, allowing the UNSC to build Cobras/Wolverines at T2 would also completely unbalance the game. By trying this with the Tank change, you’re making anti-vehicle units able to be produced before standard vehicle units, that’s moronic.
>
> And, the Banshee/Vamp thing… No. Don’t ever suggest there be a counter unit able to be built on the same or lower tech level as the unit it’s countering. If you want to rebalance this game, try these changes:
>
> + Prophet gains a slight speed boost, still not on par with the Chief
> + Rebuilding leaders takes about 20 seconds longer
> + D-Bombs last for 20-30 seconds, not a minute, but they have a 40% reduced cooldown
> + Reduce the resistance of Grenadier Hogs to Tanks
> + Infantry units all gain a large speed buff and upgrade costs are made cheaper by tiers
> + Non-upgraded Vamps still do damage when Stasising
> + Banshee Boosting speed is nerfed by having an increased acceleration time, top speed remains the same
I agree with everything that you have said here although I feel that there was one omission from your re-balancing list:
Nah, not really. All that is needed Arbiter wise is something like:
Removal of 500 supply ‘cheap rage’ upgrade.
Replace it with the 300 supply ‘heal rage’.
300 supply upgrade now increases arbiter rage move speed to current speed.
Un-teched arbiter rage speed is on par with its non-rage move speed. This would force an early 300 dropped into either turrets or rage upgrades, meaning a UNSC could pressure an unteched greedy arbiter WITHOUT needing to drop 450 to get on the base.
While covy can deal with the arbiter fairly easily, UNSC early game vs arbiter requires a covy support to be effective.
Current day arbiter imbalance is only because you can safely go 5 bless pad before units, tech or turrets.
Removal of cheap rage only forced arbiters to be choosy about when they rage, a full t2 arbiter can rage nearly forever on 1 base, thus making an expand often unnecessary or unneeded to win a game.
I miss Halo Wars when it was in its golden ages. All my matches averaged between 1-2hours. I could own two bases on Exile at the forward, dangerous position and not lose either.
Now as soon as you play, 2 minutes in warthogs or covenant leaders destroy your base, I quit or teammates quit, and games only last, Maximum, rarely 30minutes. Now I average 10 Minutes maximum.
I miss it when it was straight up unit wars in the middle where all teams would encounter each other then tug of war turf wars began and stuff…
Halo Wars has ALWAYS been “cheesey.” If you think otherwise it was because you were playing noobs who were also playing incorrectly. Matches between good players with “rushing” involved will last more than 3-5 minutes.
I personally think that purposely doing absolutely nothing for a half hour before attacking into an unsure situation is no fun at all, but luckily I can steamroll my opponents if they want to play like that and get onto a more interesting game.
Not counting speed chess of course, but how long do rushers last in a chess match? It depends on the smarts of the opponent. A defense is easily viable since both opponents start with the same exact pieces. A good player can defend, counter or prolong an untenable position and try for a draw. The first thing a chess player does not do when he sits down to start every single match is, my opponent is going to rush what do I do.
Rushing in chess is one of many strategies available. Not in HW, it’s the strategy. In it’s present form Halo Wars does not start with equal pieces and it more than less forces you to deal with the “I don’t mean to be a jerk but,” I’m rushing. Its a winning exploit and a flaw in most RTS games.
So until Halo Wars II comes out, be prepared for some cheesey zerging, unfortunately.
Except that “rushing” in this game is often not cheese because it is not all-in.
If both teams are equally active with their units at the start of the game, things equalize and the game continues on. Sorry, you don’t get to wall off and sit there for 6-8 minutes playing Sim City, you have to actually EARN the right to build up a huge army.
This is how the game has always been, you cannot skip the early game no matter what you do, you cannot expect your opponent to sit and let you build your fully tech’ed units.
The Goal Of any rush is generally not actually to kill the opponent, (of course how the opponent responds to the attack shows whether or not they are capable of defending, if shown incapable the attacker will probably push harder to kill there and then so they can move on to the next game) it is simply to put their economy behind yours so you gain the advantage. If you are dying to these rushes you need to learn to defend them.
And Defence is viable, but you cannot simply push off the enemy attack and then sit and wait for the next one if you do that your opponent achieved their goal, they put you behind in economy and expansion, you have to defend then counter or expand faster than the enemy.
