I’m pretty sure the people who gave Giraud the information of Chief as a 12 year old were actors. After all ONI did set up the interviewees for him, so I believe that this contrasted to the document he found is just him starting to discover that there’s holes in ONI’s cover up of the Spartan II program. This whole clone theory just seems out of place in the Halo universe. Nonetheless… thoughts?
> 2533274933749851;1:
> I’m pretty sure the people who gave Giraud the information of Chief as a 12 year old were actors. After all ONI did set up the interviewees for him, so I believe that this contrasted to the document he found is just him starting to discover that there’s holes in ONI’s cover up of the Spartan II program. This whole clone theory just seems out of place in the Halo universe. Nonetheless… thoughts?
Mass Effect already did it. I don’t see halo pulling the same exact thing.
> 2533274794673883;2:
> > 2533274933749851;1:
> > I’m pretty sure the people who gave Giraud the information of Chief as a 12 year old were actors. After all ONI did set up the interviewees for him, so I believe that this contrasted to the document he found is just him starting to discover that there’s holes in ONI’s cover up of the Spartan II program. This whole clone theory just seems out of place in the Halo universe. Nonetheless… thoughts?
>
>
> Mass Effect already did it. I don’t see halo pulling the same exact thing.
The best reason yet not to do it!
It doesn’t line up with ONI apparently being unaware that Dr. Halsey replaced the children with clones, though.
I thought that after Halo 4 everyone knew about Halsey abducting children? Hence the comments made in Spartan Ops etc? So why would ONI try and cover that up?
I think the point about the six year old listed as dead vs. thirteen year old missing thing was obviously alluding to some involvement/ explanation of what happened with the clone. Also for those saying it’s far fetched, the clone already existed as canon and is a huge part of the Spartan story. It is not so much of a stretch to believe he survived longer than expected.
> 2533274795206388;5:
> I thought that after Halo 4 everyone knew about Halsey abducting children? Hence the comments made in Spartan Ops etc? So why would ONI try and cover that up?
>
> I think the point about the six year old listed as dead vs. thirteen year old missing thing was obviously alluding to some involvement/ explanation of what happened with the clone. Also for those saying it’s far fetched, the clone already existed as canon and is a huge part of the Spartan story. It is not so much of a stretch to believe he survived longer than expected.
Having the clone still be alive and with augments, armour and all is as farfetched as it could be. We have no reason to assume the the clone survived much past 12, because no other clone did- and when they cloned the chief, they didn’t know he would be the saviour of the galaxy (shutting down the ‘well they made a better clone of him’ response).
> 2533274795206388;5:
> I thought that after Halo 4 everyone knew about Halsey abducting children? Hence the comments made in Spartan Ops etc? So why would ONI try and cover that up?
>
> I think the point about the six year old listed as dead vs. thirteen year old missing thing was obviously alluding to some involvement/ explanation of what happened with the clone. Also for those saying it’s far fetched, the clone already existed as canon and is a huge part of the Spartan story. It is not so much of a stretch to believe he survived longer than expected.
Flash clones usually die within weeks though, according to the Halo Encyclopedia I believe.
> 2533274933749851;7:
> > 2533274795206388;5:
> > I thought that after Halo 4 everyone knew about Halsey abducting children? Hence the comments made in Spartan Ops etc? So why would ONI try and cover that up?
> >
> > I think the point about the six year old listed as dead vs. thirteen year old missing thing was obviously alluding to some involvement/ explanation of what happened with the clone. Also for those saying it’s far fetched, the clone already existed as canon and is a huge part of the Spartan story. It is not so much of a stretch to believe he survived longer than expected.
>
>
> Flash clones usually die within weeks though, according to the Halo Encyclopedia I believe.
Daisy’s clone lived until she was age 14.
Problem is, even if John’s could too, I thought it would be as sickly as Daisy’s, not fit enough to do boxing.
> 2533274795206388;5:
> I thought that after Halo 4 everyone knew about Halsey abducting children? Hence the comments made in Spartan Ops etc? So why would ONI try and cover that up?
>
> I think the point about the six year old listed as dead vs. thirteen year old missing thing was obviously alluding to some involvement/ explanation of what happened with the clone. Also for those saying it’s far fetched, the clone already existed as canon and is a huge part of the Spartan story. It is not so much of a stretch to believe he survived longer than expected.
The stretch is A) that somehow this is the first time we’ve heard about John’s clone living this long (Daisy’s got extra attention due to her longevity), B) that the clone was fit enough to box and C) that the story about John at 12 mirrors the instance when he was 14 and fought some ODSTs.
Occam’s Razor, my friend; ONI is lying to us.
Perhaps but what’s the one quality john had above everyone else…He’s lucky.
> 2533274795206388;5:
> I thought that after Halo 4 everyone knew about Halsey abducting children? Hence the comments made in Spartan Ops etc? So why would ONI try and cover that up?
>
> I think the point about the six year old listed as dead vs. thirteen year old missing thing was obviously alluding to some involvement/ explanation of what happened with the clone. Also for those saying it’s far fetched, the clone already existed as canon and is a huge part of the Spartan story. It is not so much of a stretch to believe he survived longer than expected.
Or that he randomly managed to retain some of the original John’s “lucky” (Librarian plot armor) genes and survive to see adulthood. And I would suspect that, once ONI found out that the clone of humanity’s greatest hero managed to survive and retain many of the same attributes as the original (fighting spirit, luck, leadership), they might want to have their own personal Master Chief. I don’t think it’s far fetched that they conscripted an older version of John’s clone to become the replica of the ultimate Spartan, especially since this potential story thread so closely mimics the Ur-Didact/IsoDidact brevet mutation story thread. And it’s already a well-established fan theory that John-117 may very well have been designed by the Librarian to essentially be the human Didact. But perhaps the original is more human Ur-Didact and this clone, human IsoDidact?
> 2750412629585801;10:
> Perhaps but what’s the one quality john had above everyone else…He’s lucky.
Yeah… not his clone though.
> 2533274806352868;11:
> > 2533274795206388;5:
> > I thought that after Halo 4 everyone knew about Halsey abducting children? Hence the comments made in Spartan Ops etc? So why would ONI try and cover that up?
> >
> > I think the point about the six year old listed as dead vs. thirteen year old missing thing was obviously alluding to some involvement/ explanation of what happened with the clone. Also for those saying it’s far fetched, the clone already existed as canon and is a huge part of the Spartan story. It is not so much of a stretch to believe he survived longer than expected.
>
>
> Or that he randomly managed to retain some of the original John’s “lucky” (Librarian plot armor) genes and survive to see adulthood. And I would suspect that, once ONI found out that the clone of humanity’s greatest hero managed to survive and retain many of the same attributes as the original (fighting spirit, luck, leadership), they might want to have their own personal Master Chief. I don’t think it’s far fetched that they conscripted an older version of John’s clone to become the replica of the ultimate Spartan, especially since this potential story thread so closely mimics the Ur-Didact/IsoDidact brevet mutation story thread. And it’s already a well-established fan theory that John-117 may very well have been designed by the Librarian to essentially be the human Didact. But perhaps the original is more human Ur-Didact and this clone, human IsoDidact?
Does this not seem to be a little more far fetched than ONI lying to us? The theme is truth, we have been given conflicting information, should we not assume that which confounds the story is false?
> 2533274984123154;13:
> > 2533274806352868;11:
> > > 2533274795206388;5:
> > > I thought that after Halo 4 everyone knew about Halsey abducting children? Hence the comments made in Spartan Ops etc? So why would ONI try and cover that up?
> > >
> > > I think the point about the six year old listed as dead vs. thirteen year old missing thing was obviously alluding to some involvement/ explanation of what happened with the clone. Also for those saying it’s far fetched, the clone already existed as canon and is a huge part of the Spartan story. It is not so much of a stretch to believe he survived longer than expected.
> >
> >
> >
> > Or that he randomly managed to retain some of the original John’s “lucky” (Librarian plot armor) genes and survive to see adulthood. And I would suspect that, once ONI found out that the clone of humanity’s greatest hero managed to survive and retain many of the same attributes as the original (fighting spirit, luck, leadership), they might want to have their own personal Master Chief. I don’t think it’s far fetched that they conscripted an older version of John’s clone to become the replica of the ultimate Spartan, especially since this potential story thread so closely mimics the Ur-Didact/IsoDidact brevet mutation story thread. And it’s already a well-established fan theory that John-117 may very well have been designed by the Librarian to essentially be the human Didact. But perhaps the original is more human Ur-Didact and this clone, human IsoDidact?
>
>
> Does this not seem to be a little more far fetched than ONI lying to us? The theme is truth, we have been given conflicting information, should we not assume that which confounds the story is false?
Both seem far fetched, but two Master Chiefs running around would be an infinitely more interesting twist if they did it right, in my opinion. That’s why I favor it right now. I’m not expecting to be correct, to be honest.
> 2533274806352868;14:
> > 2533274984123154;13:
> > > 2533274806352868;11:
> > > > 2533274795206388;5:
> > > > I thought that after Halo 4 everyone knew about Halsey abducting children? Hence the comments made in Spartan Ops etc? So why would ONI try and cover that up?
> > > >
> > > > I think the point about the six year old listed as dead vs. thirteen year old missing thing was obviously alluding to some involvement/ explanation of what happened with the clone. Also for those saying it’s far fetched, the clone already existed as canon and is a huge part of the Spartan story. It is not so much of a stretch to believe he survived longer than expected.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Or that he randomly managed to retain some of the original John’s “lucky” (Librarian plot armor) genes and survive to see adulthood. And I would suspect that, once ONI found out that the clone of humanity’s greatest hero managed to survive and retain many of the same attributes as the original (fighting spirit, luck, leadership), they might want to have their own personal Master Chief. I don’t think it’s far fetched that they conscripted an older version of John’s clone to become the replica of the ultimate Spartan, especially since this potential story thread so closely mimics the Ur-Didact/IsoDidact brevet mutation story thread. And it’s already a well-established fan theory that John-117 may very well have been designed by the Librarian to essentially be the human Didact. But perhaps the original is more human Ur-Didact and this clone, human IsoDidact?
> >
> >
> >
> > Does this not seem to be a little more far fetched than ONI lying to us? The theme is truth, we have been given conflicting information, should we not assume that which confounds the story is false?
>
>
> Both seem far fetched, but two Master Chiefs running around would be an infinitely more interesting twist if they did it right, in my opinion. That’s why I favor it right now. I’m not expecting to be correct, to be honest.
Man I really envy that optimism. This theory scares the crap out of me as clone arcs are hardly handled correctly (I’m looking at you, Ben Reilly) and I can’t seem to think of a way it could be pulled of that wouldn’t cheapen the entire franchise (still glaring at you, Reilly). I guess time will tell.
> 2533274984123154;15:
> > 2533274806352868;14:
> > > 2533274984123154;13:
> > > > 2533274806352868;11:
> > > > > 2533274795206388;5:
> > > > > I thought that after Halo 4 everyone knew about Halsey abducting children? Hence the comments made in Spartan Ops etc? So why would ONI try and cover that up?
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the point about the six year old listed as dead vs. thirteen year old missing thing was obviously alluding to some involvement/ explanation of what happened with the clone. Also for those saying it’s far fetched, the clone already existed as canon and is a huge part of the Spartan story. It is not so much of a stretch to believe he survived longer than expected.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Or that he randomly managed to retain some of the original John’s “lucky” (Librarian plot armor) genes and survive to see adulthood. And I would suspect that, once ONI found out that the clone of humanity’s greatest hero managed to survive and retain many of the same attributes as the original (fighting spirit, luck, leadership), they might want to have their own personal Master Chief. I don’t think it’s far fetched that they conscripted an older version of John’s clone to become the replica of the ultimate Spartan, especially since this potential story thread so closely mimics the Ur-Didact/IsoDidact brevet mutation story thread. And it’s already a well-established fan theory that John-117 may very well have been designed by the Librarian to essentially be the human Didact. But perhaps the original is more human Ur-Didact and this clone, human IsoDidact?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Does this not seem to be a little more far fetched than ONI lying to us? The theme is truth, we have been given conflicting information, should we not assume that which confounds the story is false?
> >
> >
> >
> > Both seem far fetched, but two Master Chiefs running around would be an infinitely more interesting twist if they did it right, in my opinion. That’s why I favor it right now. I’m not expecting to be correct, to be honest.
>
>
> Man I really envy that optimism. This theory scares the crap out of me as clone arcs are hardly handled correctly (I’m looking at you, Ben Reilly) and I can’t seem to think of a way it could be pulled of that wouldn’t cheapen the entire franchise (still glaring at you, Reilly). I guess time will tell.
If you could think of a way to make it work you’d be rich!!
ONI is lying since Ben learned through the files he mentioned in the end of the recording that John died at the age of six so I’m guessing that the people he “interviewed” were paid by ONI.
> 2533274873310828;8:
> > 2533274933749851;7:
> > > 2533274795206388;5:
> > > I thought that after Halo 4 everyone knew about Halsey abducting children? Hence the comments made in Spartan Ops etc? So why would ONI try and cover that up?
> > >
> > > I think the point about the six year old listed as dead vs. thirteen year old missing thing was obviously alluding to some involvement/ explanation of what happened with the clone. Also for those saying it’s far fetched, the clone already existed as canon and is a huge part of the Spartan story. It is not so much of a stretch to believe he survived longer than expected.
> >
> >
> >
> > Flash clones usually die within weeks though, according to the Halo Encyclopedia I believe.
>
>
> Daisy’s clone lived until she was age 14.
> Problem is, even if John’s could too, I thought it would be as sickly as Daisy’s, not fit enough to do boxing.
According to the commentary from Homecoming Daisy’s parents were wealthy enough to afford medical care to prolong her clone’s life-span, John’s parents are probably on average wages so they weren’t able to.
the clones have already been established as canon. when they abducted the Spartans they put them in place so that there wasnt a man hunt for child abductors. the clones only lived for a few years and died of natural causes i believe. i even think one of the Spartans ends up finding her clone when they escape training ( it was one of the halo anime things)
> 2533274984123154;15:
> > 2533274806352868;14:
> > > 2533274984123154;13:
> > > > 2533274806352868;11:
> > > > > 2533274795206388;5:
> > > > > I thought that after Halo 4 everyone knew about Halsey abducting children? Hence the comments made in Spartan Ops etc? So why would ONI try and cover that up?
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the point about the six year old listed as dead vs. thirteen year old missing thing was obviously alluding to some involvement/ explanation of what happened with the clone. Also for those saying it’s far fetched, the clone already existed as canon and is a huge part of the Spartan story. It is not so much of a stretch to believe he survived longer than expected.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Or that he randomly managed to retain some of the original John’s “lucky” (Librarian plot armor) genes and survive to see adulthood. And I would suspect that, once ONI found out that the clone of humanity’s greatest hero managed to survive and retain many of the same attributes as the original (fighting spirit, luck, leadership), they might want to have their own personal Master Chief. I don’t think it’s far fetched that they conscripted an older version of John’s clone to become the replica of the ultimate Spartan, especially since this potential story thread so closely mimics the Ur-Didact/IsoDidact brevet mutation story thread. And it’s already a well-established fan theory that John-117 may very well have been designed by the Librarian to essentially be the human Didact. But perhaps the original is more human Ur-Didact and this clone, human IsoDidact?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Does this not seem to be a little more far fetched than ONI lying to us? The theme is truth, we have been given conflicting information, should we not assume that which confounds the story is false?
> >
> >
> >
> > Both seem far fetched, but two Master Chiefs running around would be an infinitely more interesting twist if they did it right, in my opinion. That’s why I favor it right now. I’m not expecting to be correct, to be honest.
>
>
> Man I really envy that optimism. This theory scares the crap out of me as clone arcs are hardly handled correctly (I’m looking at you, Ben Reilly) and I can’t seem to think of a way it could be pulled of that wouldn’t cheapen the entire franchise (still glaring at you, Reilly). I guess time will tell.
I’m optimistic because Halo has already essentially done a clone arc really well. I will cite the Didact again and again, simply because Greg Bear wrote that narrative into existence very beautifully and it worked well. I’m actually quite sympathetic toward your hesitation when it comes to a clone arc within a video game, admittedly - it’d be kind of a hard thing to pull off, on both a narrative simplicity and just a character visual level (you would obviously have to be able to distinguish between the two at some point in the game). It might actually just be another piece of context that’s only covered rather briefly in the game somehow and is actually fleshed out in one of the upcoming novels or novellas, again just for narrative simplicity within the game. Perhaps the clone did something before the events of the game that the Master Chief is somehow now paying for. That would still be too convoluted, in my opinion, but I’m just throwing stuff at the wall at this point.
The bottom line is: I noticed this potential connection and, as a lover of Halo’s lore for almost ten years now, it’s a really cool possibility, if they do it correctly (I don’t want a crappy clone arc either, don’t get me wrong).