Things to remove to make Halo 5 a better game

Basically, remove everything 343 copied from Call of Duty. I’m trying to be the most constructive I can, but after playing Halo 4 today, I realized I was playing more a COD than a real Halo game and that really piss me off. I just stopped from multiplayer and went directly into the campaign but oh dear God… Quick time events?.

Not that I hate 343 entirely, but after reading an interview of Frank O’Connor (back in 2010) I was shocked. He said that “343 didn’t want to copy everything Bungie did, but rather do new things for the franchise”. (Note the word “new”). They didn’t want to copy Bungie, but they tought it was a good idea to copy COD? Seriously?

The point of this thread is make a list of things to remove for the upcoming Halo game (a list based in my opinion and several other fans demanding it) wether it’s a gameplay mechanic or an in-game object.

  • Quick time events. We want longer cutscenes.
  • Flinch. Bring back descoping.
  • Loadouts. Bring back Arena gameplay (confirmed)
  • Support packages (speed and damage boosts).
  • Personal Ordnance. Oh God why?
  • Sprint. It sucks.
  • Flag marker. Bring back original CTF.
  • Grenade marker.
  • Hit marker. (not that I hate it but…)
  • Spartan Points. This is Halo!
  • Calling cards. (Many people complained about this)
  • Weapon skins. (I like them but meh).
  • Armor abilities (of course).
  • Perks
  • Call of Duty button set (this one is mine, I hate crouching with the B)
  • Prometheans. Please…
  • Boltshot.
  • SAW. This weapon…
  • Bloom.
  • Specializations. What is the purpose of those?
  • DMR. Yes, DMR.
  • Regicide. What is this -Yoink-?
  • Infinity playlists.
  • Mantis. It’s freaking overpowered!
  • Story based on books.
  • Neil Davidge (this one is mine too).

And the list goes on. Remember: copying what other franchises are doing is not evolving (or “moving forward” as many claim), it’s de-evolving. It turns our beloved franchise into another military shooter with perks and 1-second battles. This is Halo, remember that!

Refusing to implement improvements solely because someone else did them also makes no sense.

Just saying.

> (I like them but meh)

Nor does this.

Bloom works on some automatic weapons. Bloom on precision weapons is an oxymoron.

> Refusing to implement improvements solely because someone else did them also makes no sense.
>
> Just saying.
>
>
>
> > (I like them but meh)
>
> Nor does this.

Do we really need to go through the paragraphs of explanations on why each mechanic doesn’t work well instead? I think the point would be fairly obvious to most people at this point.

> Do we really need to go through the paragraphs of explanations on why each mechanic doesn’t work well instead? I think the point would be fairly obvious to most people at this point.

“Wishlist” threads serve no purpose in my opinion. They leave nothing to discuss unless someone wants go through the arduous task of debating everything on the list they disagree with.

Weapon skins don’t work well because…?
Removing them solely because CoD has them doesn’t make sense.

> Refusing to implement improvements solely because someone else did them also makes no sense.
>
> Just saying.
>
>
>
> > (I like them but meh)
>
> Nor does this.

True, but Call of Duty doesn’t add energy shields. Battlefield doesn’t add dual-wielding or plasma grenades to their gameplay. Those franchises change things based on their original gameplay style (class shooter). Halo on the other hand, changed from Arena game style, to a cheap (ordinary) class shooter, with no improvements. Just a simple copy and paste from another game. This is not a way to make Halo a better franchise.

I agree with most of these.

Speed boost and damage boost are good powerups. If they were placed on the map and fought over like the overshield they would be great additions to Halo.

Weapon skins aren’t really detrimental at all, and besides some of them look pretty cool. There’s no reason to take it out.

As it stands the DMR is a clone of the BR. Once we take out customizable loadouts, then we could redesign the DMR to fit a unique role in the weapon sandbox - possibly make it a 3 shot kill with a low rate of fire, acting like a low end power weapon just like the SAW and shotgun. Same goes for the boltshot. The SAW is an interesting power weapon, it just needs to be placed on the map and fought for.

Regicide is pretty fun.

Mantis should stay but be rebalanced. In fact, the entire vehicle sandbox in H4 needs to be rebalanced. Everything explodes as soon as you touch it.

> damage boost…great additions to Halo.

If killtimes are fast enough, like they should be, then DB is unnecessary and will be too much of a deviation from the standard utility weapon killtimes that the rest of the sandbox is balanced around.

Except for keeping weapon skins, I disagree with the rest of your post. If any weapon gets the 3sk treatment, it should be the Magnum and even then I still think it should be a 4sk for better balance with the rest of the weapon sandbox.

Regicide rewards lesser skilled players.

Another mech-like vehicle should replace the Mantis. There is too much wrong with it to fix.

Halo 2 style multiplayer with more weapons is perfect. AND ABSOLUTELY NO TO WEAPON SKINS AND CUSTOM LOADOUTS! :frowning:

> Halo 2 style multiplayer with more weapons is perfect. AND ABSOLUTELY NO TO WEAPON SKINS AND CUSTOM LOADOUTS! :frowning:

How did weapon skins make H4 worse…

Let’s just remove the whole matchmaking

joking

maybe

> Weapon skins don’t work well because…?

Because they are dependent on the existence of loadouts, which is also on the removal wishlist. I don’t see a game developer implementing weapon skins in a game with only map pickups. (Well, unless we’re counting Forerunner weapons as skins. lololololol)

> I’m trying to be the most constructive I can, but after playing Halo 4 today, I realized I was playing more a COD than a real Halo game and that really piss me off.

I hate this. While H4 is definitely removed from the previous titles, it plays nothing like CoD. The two games are worlds apart. Were some CoD-like elements included that detract from the game? Absolutely. And I wish they weren’t. But when people begin a thread declaring H4 is CoD in space, it makes my head want to explode.

> They didn’t want to copy Bungie, but they tought it was a good idea to copy COD? Seriously?

Many of the objectionable items - while present in CoD - were not invented by CoD. CoD copied them from somewhere else . . . just as many elements not taken from CoD were still copied from somewhere else. For example:

  • Crouch was introduced to FPSs by Star Wars: Dark Forces.
  • Goldeneye brought reloading and headshots to console shooters.
  • Half-Life introduced a spring-jumping concept.
  • Primary / secondary weapon restrictions was popularized by Counterstrike.
  • CTF was introduced to FPS multiplayer by Rise of the Triad and popularized by the later Quake mod.
  • King of the Hill was brought to Halo by Bungie from its earlier Marathon series.
  • Tribes brought jetpacks into FPS.

. . . and I really could go on and on. Many of the above - which are copied from other games - are fundamental to Halo gameplay. Simply because something is copied from somewhere else does not make it bad. And the statement that they copied more from CoD and less from Bungie is so backwards as to not merit further comment.

You then go on to ask for a bunch of stuff to be removed, most of which has no effect on gameplay, or is already removed (so why post about it???). No reason is given other than that they are copied from somewhere else. That is not a good reason - especially when many of the non-gameplay items are popular.

> Remember: copying what other franchises are doing is not evolving (or “moving forward” as many claim), it’s de-evolving. It turns our beloved franchise into another military shooter with perks and 1-second battles. This is Halo, remember that!

Except that most of what Halo was prior to H4 was copied directly from predecessor games.

Even the most “innovative” of games copy the vast majority of their concepts features from previous games. Every FPS after Wolfenstein has largely copied the previous games and only added a small number of improvements (though the improvements added may have greatly changed the way the game is played . . . like the ability to look up and down a la Heretic). Most of the adds were small in scale compared to what was copied, even if the feel of the game was entirely different. Innovation generally came in how all of the features were implemented to give the game a unique feel. This was true of CE. And of H2. And of H3.

With that said, H4 certainly copied things from other games that it should not have - like the killstreak reward concept (executed as PoD), sprint, and class customizations. Should those go away? Absolutely. But to chuck everything is to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Your post is based on a false premise, and all of the issues you bring up are dealt with elsewhere in more depth.

> > Weapon skins don’t work well because…?
>
> Because they are dependent on the existence of loadouts, which is also on the removal wishlist. I don’t see a game developer implementing weapon skins in a game with only map pickups. (Well, unless we’re counting Forerunner weapons as skins. lololololol)

H4 implemented them in conjunction with loadouts, but they certainly can be implemented without loadouts. In fact, weapon skins are the only aesthetic customization that was selectable in H4 via loadouts. Amor, emblems, stances, and tags were separately customizable.

I do not understand why you think a developer would not implement them with only map pickups. There is still no issue with customizing the appearance of the starting weapons (even if they are fewer in number).

By this logic since Halo ripped off so many things from CoD and Halo has to be Halo and not copy anything else, we can’t have Halo because Halo ripped off Marathon (yes I know it was made by Bungie and Halo is considered its spiritual successor).

> Basically, remove everything 343 copied from Call of Duty. I’m trying to be the most constructive I can, but after playing Halo 4 today, I realized I was playing more a COD than a real Halo game and that really piss me off. I just stopped from multiplayer and went directly into the campaign but oh dear God… Quick time events?.
>
> Not that I hate 343 entirely, but after reading an interview of Frank O’Connor (back in 2010) I was shocked. He said that “343 didn’t want to copy everything Bungie did, but rather do new things for the franchise”. (Note the word “new”). They didn’t want to copy Bungie, but they tought it was a good idea to copy COD? Seriously?
>
> The point of this thread is make a list of things to remove for the upcoming Halo game (a list based in my opinion and several other fans demanding it) wether it’s a gameplay mechanic or an in-game object.
>
> - Quick time events. We want longer cutscenes.
> I don’t mind them much, as long as they are used tastefully.
> - Flinch. Bring back descoping.
> - Loadouts. Bring back Arena gameplay (confirmed)
> - Support packages speed and damage boosts.
> Speed boost and damage boost could stay if they are on the map pickups.
> - Personal Ordnance. Oh God why?
> - Sprint. It sucks.
> - Flag marker. Bring back original CTF.
> - Grenade marker.
> - Hit marker. (not that I hate it but…)
> - Spartan Points. This is Halo!
> - Calling cards. (Many people complained about this)
> - Weapon skins. (I like them but meh).
> There is absolutely no reason to get rid of these.
> - Armor abilities (of course).
> - Perks
> - Call of Duty button set (this one is mine, I hate crouching with the B)
> You might not like it, but other people might, so why remove it?
> - Prometheans. Please…
> I like the idea of new Forerunner enemies, they just need to be adjusted.
> - Boltshot.
> This could be adjusted and then it wouldn’t be that bad, provided it is a map pickup.
> - SAW. This weapon…
> I kind of like it, but it could use some balancing.
> - Bloom.
> - Specializations. What is the purpose of those?
> - DMR. Yes, DMR.
> I don’t have a very strong opinion on this, but why take it out?
> - Regicide. What is this Yoink!?
> Regicide is fun, I like it.
> - Infinity playlists.
> - Mantis. It’s freaking overpowered!
> The mantis needs some serious changes, or it needs to be removed.
> - Story based on books.
> Yes, but make it so people who have read the books, get something more out of the story than people who haven’t.
> - Neil Davidge (this one is mine too).
> I actually really like halo 4’s music.
>
> And the list goes on. Remember: copying what other franchises are doing is not evolving (or “moving forward” as many claim), it’s de-evolving. It turns our beloved franchise into another military shooter with perks and 1-second battles. This is Halo, remember that!

My responses are in red.

> Basically, remove everything 343 copied from Call of Duty. I’m trying to be the most constructive I can, but after playing Halo 4 today, I realized I was playing more a COD than a real Halo game and that really piss me off. I just stopped from multiplayer and went directly into the campaign but oh dear God… Quick time events?.
>
> Not that I hate 343 entirely, but after reading an interview of Frank O’Connor (back in 2010) I was shocked. He said that “343 didn’t want to copy everything Bungie did, but rather do new things for the franchise”. (Note the word “new”). They didn’t want to copy Bungie, but they tought it was a good idea to copy COD? Seriously?
>
> The point of this thread is make a list of things to remove for the upcoming Halo game (a list based in my opinion and several other fans demanding it) wether it’s a gameplay mechanic or an in-game object.
>
> - Quick time events. We want longer cutscenes.
> - Flinch. Bring back descoping.
> - Loadouts. Bring back Arena gameplay (confirmed)
> - Support packages (speed and damage boosts).
> - Personal Ordnance. Oh God why?
> - Sprint. It sucks.
> - Flag marker. Bring back original CTF.
> - Grenade marker.
> - Hit marker. (not that I hate it but…)
> - Spartan Points. This is Halo!
> - Calling cards. (Many people complained about this)
> - Weapon skins. (I like them but meh).
> - Armor abilities (of course).
> - Perks
> - Call of Duty button set (this one is mine, I hate crouching with the B)
> - Prometheans. Please…
> - Boltshot.
> - SAW. This weapon…
> - Bloom.
> - Specializations. What is the purpose of those?
> - DMR. Yes, DMR.
> - Regicide. What is this Yoink!?
> - Infinity playlists.
> - Mantis. It’s freaking overpowered!
> - Story based on books.
> - Neil Davidge (this one is mine too).
>
> And the list goes on. Remember: copying what other franchises are doing is not evolving (or “moving forward” as many claim), it’s de-evolving. It turns our beloved franchise into another military shooter with perks and 1-second battles. This is Halo, remember that!

Why remove things? If it doesn’t work once, you throw it out and start from scratch?

No, you improve it. Find what didn’t work and see if it can be salvaged, if not, then take it away or redesign it heavily. A lot of what you have on the removal list can be better improved and suited to the game. Take what worked, improve what didn’t.

Take out a control scheme? You do realize you’re not the only person who plays Halo, right? Thousands upon thousands play, and each has a different preference, each has a different level of experience with various games. The more control schemes, the better. People can get into the game better and not be frustrated by a limited selection of unhelpful controls. If you don’t like a control scheme, then don’t use it.

Regicide? It’s free-for-all with a competitive incentive to go after the king. What the hell is wrong with it? Do’t just start removing things just because 343i came up with them.

Story based on books?
lolwut? You do realize that Halo: Combat Evolved used a book, The Fall of Reach, to provide the essential backstory for the game? Which was used as a foundation for expanding the franchise’s story further through the games and other media? The whole franchise came from a book, which was actually released before the first game.

The story is amazing, it would be an insult to the potential of the universe to not use the expanded media. However, they do need to make sure that the games can hold the story on their own. Halo 4 did relatively well with this, but there are some key areas that needed better in-game explanation, and 343i admitted that.

> [
> Take out a control scheme? . . . If you don’t like a control scheme, then don’t use it.

Ideal solution would be to simply allow players to map their own scheme.

> Take out a control scheme? You do realize you’re not the only person who plays Halo, right? Thousands upon thousands play, and each has a different preference, each has a different level of experience with various games. The more control schemes, the better. People can get into the game better and not be frustrated by a limited selection of unhelpful controls. If you don’t like a control scheme, then don’t use it.

It looks like he referring to how the basic control scheme uses B to crouch instead of the Left Thumbstick like every other Halo game in existence. Because Sprint came in and took that button and knocked Crouch to B, just like the CoD control scheme.

> Call of Duty button set (this one is mine, I hate crouching with the B)

> Regicide? It’s free-for-all with a competitive incentive to go after the king. What the hell is wrong with it? Do’t just start removing things just because 343i came up with them.

Everybody go after the guy who’s winning isn’t exactly that great a game. It punishes you for doing too good, making the person that was in 2nd or 3rd place normally win because everyone goes after the 1st place guy.

> > Take out a control scheme? You do realize you’re not the only person who plays Halo, right? Thousands upon thousands play, and each has a different preference, each has a different level of experience with various games. The more control schemes, the better. People can get into the game better and not be frustrated by a limited selection of unhelpful controls. If you don’t like a control scheme, then don’t use it.
>
> It looks like he referring to how the basic control scheme uses B to crouch instead of the Left Thumbstick like every other Halo game in existence. Because Sprint came in and took that button and knocked Crouch to B, just like the CoD control scheme.
>
>
>
> > Call of Duty button set (this one is mine, I hate crouching with the B)
>
>
>
> > Regicide? It’s free-for-all with a competitive incentive to go after the king. What the hell is wrong with it? Do’t just start removing things just because 343i came up with them.
>
> Everybody go after the guy who’s winning isn’t exactly that great a game. It punishes you for doing too good, making the person that was in 2nd or 3rd place normally win because everyone goes after the 1st place guy.

That’s still not a reason to remove a control scheme. If the game’s features require a certain combination to be mpre comfortable, then do so. Removing schemes isn’t an answer.

So… Oddball isn’t a great game?

> > Weapon skins don’t work well because…?
>
> Because they are dependent on the existence of loadouts, which is also on the removal wishlist. I don’t see a game developer implementing weapon skins in a game with only map pickups. (Well, unless we’re counting Forerunner weapons as skins. lololololol)

Quite the contrary. You can have “custom loadouts” where you would have each weapon available in the game, then apply skins to them, and as you start and then spawn with them throughout your MM journey, you’d have the equipped skin on the weapon you start with, even though it’s one single forced loadout.

Then the map creators could also use them for weapon pickups.

Get rid of 2 kinds of perks.

Get rid of 1-sk starting weapons like the H4 boltshot and the plasma grenades.

I’m not giving up on AA’s (like JSA343 said, I still feel some future version of AAs could work) but I accept that I’m in the minority there.

If you got rid of the perks then it would be a huge step in the right direction. Simpler, more balanced, more stable, close to classic Halo while still looking forward to a modern iteration.