Things that true Halo fans deserve.

Community General Discussion
42

> 2535461097114890;1:
> I’m a die hard Halo fan. I’ve been playing ever since I was a little kid, and I still play today. However, I don’t nearly play Halo as much as I did back in the day. No, that is not because I’m growing out of Halo, or because my life is extremely busy now that I am an adult, but rather, it just doesn’t feel the same.
>
> For example, say you have a puppy. That puppy is so small, cute, and it means the world to you. Years later, the dog becomes mentally and physically disabled, is deaf, and does nothing but lazily slouch on the floor all day. Of course, you will love that dog because of all of the fun memories you have had, and because he was a large part of your life, so you continue to buy it food, water, and medicine.
>
> That is what caring owners do, and that is what true Halo fans have done. We have spent money on this video game called Halo 5: Guardians, and it doesn’t feel anything like the original Halos. What we fell in love with is now just a lazy, shell of its former self. We cling to the far-fetched hope that 343 will learn from the mistakes, but how many titles must we go through, how much money will we waste, just waiting for that one perfect game to satisfy our nostalgia?
>
> It is sickening. 343industries and Bungie are two complete different companies with two completely different mindsets. Bungie was dedicated to making everything fun and enjoyable, while 343 is more focused on making marketable material. It is truly saddening that one of the greatest gaming franchises of all time is being milked for money to one of the world’s largest corporations.
>
> 343industries. Microsoft. Give the fans what they want.

I think I just got a tear in my eye… But yes I agree.

43

> 2533274880633045;40:
> > 2533274870601938;39:
> > comedyshermit An argument from ignorance? Care to elaborate on that assumption?
>
> An argument from ignorance or an appeal to ignorance fallacy; I.E. someone believing the following
> If a proposition has not been disproved, then it cannot be considered false and must therefore be considered true.
> If a proposition has not been proven, then it cannot be considered true and must therefore be considered false.
> Obviously that isn’t the case. You cannot consider something true; simply because it hasn’t been disproved. (There is an invisible dragon in my garage.)
> Likewise you cannot assume that because something hasn’t been proven that it is false; (You would be right however not to believe that claim.)
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;39:
> > I usually assume “monitors” are just as informed as myself on the status of the franchise, which is why I don’t care to go into depth with my explanations and use sources. I assume you know this website well enough to be able to search any of my previous threads I’ve started which provide all of the sources anyone needs to understand my points. Halo 5 never comes into the top 10 most played games on xbox according to the XBOX website, and it usually hovers around 20th.
>
> I’ll respond before reading on; even if I accept this as true; the reason ‘why’ cannot be shown. Any assumption will be unsupported and lead into the above. “I believe it and you can’t prove me wrong non-sense.”

> 2533274880633045;40:
> > 2533274870601938;39:
> >
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;39:
> > A die-hard classic Halo fan who isn’t making 343 money isn’t going to really matter in 343’s eyes.
>
> So a company prefers customers to non-customers? I don’t accept your claim, but I don’t think you phrased it well either.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;39:
> > Gambling is not a scare word.
>
> You seem to be using it as one.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;39:
> > Req packs are gambling. It isn’t an exchange for goods. It is an exchange for the chance to get goods; that is gambling.
>
> You always get something; it’s a grab bag; a bubble machine. A req pack may be a ‘gamble’, but it certainly isn’t gambling. I’ve never opened a req pack and recieved nothing.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;39:
> > Those little bubble machines aren’t relevant because those machines are build for that purpose. Halo shouldn’t be built around gambling, and warzone, Halo 5’s most popular playlist, was built around it.
>
> Those little bubble machines are the same as the req system; you put money in knowing that you’ll recieve an item from the pool; maybe that cool rubber bat maybe the rainbow stickers and you have the choice to partake. That isn’t gambling.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;39:
> > Are you blaming the players or 343 when you say “It isn’t ‘unethical’ that I enjoy a game that has a system that caused them problems due to their own stupidity”?
>
> If they spend more money than they want to spend or let their children spend their money without knowing what it is; they are responsible. That isn’t a matter of blame. People are responsible for their actions.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;39:
> > If you are referring to players, well then shame on you. The consumer is absolutely NEVER to blame. 343 is to blame for implementing such an unethical system.
>
> So you’re claiming that the existence of the req system forced someone to spend money they didn’t want to? Forced someone to do something against their will? I’m really hoping you didn’t think that through, becuase people need to take responsibility for their actions and not blame the opportunity to do something. An unlocked door isn’t a lisence to rob a house.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;39:
> > If one player gets an item he/sh wants after one req pack, and it takes another player 5 req pack purchases to get the same item, that isn’t fair and is a greedy and unethical way to incentivize players, especially under the age of 18.
>
> So, if I make it abundantly clear that there is a slight chance you’ll get the item you want and say 98% chance that you don’t…there is a free method of gaining ‘chances’ for the item and you choose to pay for them anyway it’s my fault that you chose to buy them. The world doesn’t work that way. You made a choice to get the item and as long as I was clear up front with what you were buying the mistake (if you view it as one) rests on your shoulders.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;39:
> > 343 took out gore and language out of a franchise in order to sell to a younger audience,
>
> Gore is a method of attracting a younger audience. Kids like gore and swearing; it’s only as you get older that you realize those things don’t make something ‘cool’ in and of themselves.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;39:
> > and it’s okay for those younger players to gamble in-game and possibly develop an early habit from it? That’s out of control.
>
> I think you need to develop a better understanding of personal responsibility and what gambling (and problem gambling) is. You don’t seem to have thought your views through.

“A req pack may be a ‘gamble’, but it certainly isn’t gambling”. This is nonsensical and laughable. A gamble is the act of gambling.

I don’t understand how you can use that philosophy of logic baloney to immediately delegitimize my claims when you follow up with an even more ridiculous one: “Gore is a method of attracting a younger audience. Kids like gore and swearing; it’s only as you get older that you realize those things don’t make something ‘cool’ in and of themselves.” What gives you the authority to generalize what “kids” like and what people like when they get older? I mean at least be consistent when you are arguing.

You state that the req system and bubble machine aren’t instances of gambling. You’re wrong. To gamble is to partake in a game of chance, often for a desired result. That is exactly what those systems provide.

People argue that since there is always something in the req packs, it isn’t gambling, but if a player is buying a req pack hoping for a certain item, and he/she doesn’t get it, it’s a loss. That’s gambling. If someone is investing in a promising IPO, he/she is almost guaranteed to make a profit and wants to make as much as possible, though the result is ultimately unknown. It’s a gamble.

Halo 5 can be sold to 13 year olds because Microsoft wanted to widen Halo’s audience, which is fine, but do you think 13 year olds are personally responsible enough to refrain from buying req packs? Do you think that 13 year olds should be able to gamble with real money?

I’m not disagreeing that people are irresponsible, but I don’t think kids at this age should even have the chance to make the mistakes. A Halo game should be a place where players work hard to earn rewards. Gambling should NOT be an option.

44

> 2533274870601938;43:
> “A req pack may be a ‘gamble’, but it certainly isn’t gambling”. This is nonsensical and laughable. A gamble is the act of gambling.

Quite the opposite; taking a risk or “a gamble” if you will is required for gambling; risk can be taken without gambling. I take a risk everyday I come to work; I take a risk when I put a quarter into the bubble machine. On the other hand if I go to Vegas and start pumping quarters in a slot machine, then I would be gambling. Words have multiple usages and nuances; I’m sorry if my playing with them confused you.

> 2533274870601938;43:
> I don’t understand how you can use that philosophy of logic baloney

You have a better method of organizing your thnking than logic? I’ll admit that has me curious.

> 2533274870601938;43:
> to immediately delegitimize my claims

If I point out an error in your thinking; it should be helpful to you. Ideally I want my ideas/beliefs to comport with reality, I tend to assume (sometimes mistakenly) that other people would want the same thing.

> 2533274870601938;43:
> when you follow up with an even more ridiculous one: “Gore is a method of attracting a younger audience. Kids like gore and swearing; it’s only as you get older that you realize those things don’t make something ‘cool’ in and of themselves.” What gives you the authority to generalize what “kids” like and what people like when they get older? I mean at least be consistent when you are arguing.

Violent video games are a source of facination for a lot of children; remember (you may be too young) when Mortal Kombat was the newest thing to hit the arcades? When children crowded around the arcade cabinet becuase there was blood and the chance of a fatality. I admit this is mostly anectodal on my part and I don’t feel like spending the time searching psychinfo for peer reviewed journals that support it. I understand if you choose not to believe that, but you can’t believe the opposite of it either if that’s the case. However, Your claim that the ‘gore’ was toned down in order to attract children doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. It’s the same as any other claim you have to support it and you inevitably can’t.

> 2533274870601938;43:
> You state that the req system and bubble machine aren’t instances of gambling. You’re wrong. To gamble is to partake in a game of chance, often for a desired result. That is exactly what those systems provide.

A game of chance that you can’t lose? I wish all gambling worked like that. “Put the coin in the slot machine and always get something in return.” With gambling there is a chance you’re going to lose where whether your money is wasted or not is largely dependent on chance. If you buy a req pack then you recieve somethng everytime. Req packs aren’t a game at all they are an item you purchase. What about collectible card games like magic the gathering or just sports cards? I’ve never played or cared for them, but you buy a pack with with a set number of cards (and those are random based in part on rarities) is that gambling?

> 2533274870601938;43:
> People argue that since there is always something in the req packs, it isn’t gambling, but if a player is buying a req pack hoping for a certain item, and he/she doesn’t get it, it’s a loss. That’s gambling. If someone is investing in a promising IPO, he/she is almost guaranteed to make a profit and wants to make as much as possible, though the result is ultimately unknown. It’s a gamble.

So your definition of gambling includes letting a child buy a kid’s meal? Because they hope to get the toy prize they really want and there is a good chance they won’t. It’s gambling! We must stop these children from gambling! Or Yahtzee. I played yahtzee as a child. I wanted a yahtzee and didn’t get it. Was that gambling? Informed consent of a random element in a purchase is hardly the same as roulette with actual cash.

The stock market doesn’t work that way. There are never guarantees (or almost guarantees of anything.)

> 2533274870601938;43:
> Halo 5 can be sold to 13 year olds because Microsoft wanted to widen Halo’s audience

Microsoft doesn’t rate the game, neither did 343. The ESRB does. You don’t have inside information suggesting that they aimed at a ‘Teen’ rating, much less the motivation for doing so if that is the case. Baseless assumptions offer nothing of value.

> 2533274870601938;43:
> which is fine, but do you think 13 year olds are personally responsible enough to refrain from buying req packs? Do you think that 13 year olds should be able to gamble with real money?

At 13 I certainly was, but I also don’t know of a lot of thirteen year olds with credit cards. When it comes to children; the parents are responsible for their actions. If they are foolish enough (or wealthy enough) to let their children go mad with req packs that would fall on them.

> 2533274870601938;43:
> I’m not disagreeing that people are irresponsible, but I don’t think kids at this age should even have the chance to make the mistakes.

Some people learn by making mistakes. It’s what they do and it would again be the responsibility of the parent to make sure that they don’t go to far.

> 2533274870601938;43:
> A Halo game should be a place where players work hard to earn rewards.

Why? What makes it different than anything else? What specifically about a video game about space marines in armor says that it need to have a rewards system at all, much less one based around work?

> 2533274870601938;43:
> Gambling should NOT be an option.

I’ll alert Vegas that it needs to close. Oh, wait you mean in Halo…good thing it isn’t.

45

While people can disagree and deny it all they want, Halo has had a pretty gradual evolution in its life time. It was not a large step from 3 to Reach, nor Reach to 4, or 4 to 5. Every Halo is different and the Halo we have now when lined up with all the others seems perfectly reasonable.

For example lets use the two most hated additions it seems: Sprint and Spartan Abilities.

In halo 1 and 2, we mainly had power-ups like camo and over-shield.

By Halo 3, equipment was added along with the power-ups like bubble-shield and grav lift.

Halo reach took equipment and made them into load out based abilities: “Armor Abilities”, sprint being one of them.

Halo 4 added more AA’s and made sprint permanent use.

Halo 5 linked sprint to shields and created “Spartan abilities”, the Thrust AA being reworked for it.

This is one example, but just look at all the Halo’s from first to now, its been a gradual evolution. We don’t need exactly old or new, but something in the middle. A mix if both.

46

> 2535405116054664;2:
> I’m just gonna say this right now, not all fans want the same thing. I’m in the same boat as you, OP, I grew up with CE when I was 5 and I’ve been a diehard ever since. However, I am fine with how the 343 games have been handled (for the most part, I understand there were development issues in some cases) and I eagerly await more from them. Call me a 343 fanboy or a traitor if you will, but I like what they have, and I can follow it just fine. Now, I know others have issues with the 343 games, some of which have left because of them. If they don’t like it and want to voice their opinions, then that’s fine, you want to be heard and I’m not gonna stop you. But I just want to make it clear that even some of the old fans can still appreciate what 343 has done with the series. I dunno, food for thought I guess.

What people need to understand though, is that if people want 343 to continue their practices as they have with H5, they are essentially wanting a “damaged” product… If you’re THAT obsessed with wanting a ton of REQ’s and cosmetics like H5, you’re wishing for a sub-par Halo game, because that is the end-result.
They’re actually encouraging further damage to the franchise, because for all the time and effort they’re developing all of these non-essential items for profit (a considerable expense), that’s time and effort that could’ve been spent improving the QUALITY and VALUE of the critical game components.

It’s so apparent in H5… remixed maps, maps built from the foundation of others, to cut costs and save time… resulting in redundant content, an experience lacking in variety, and ultimately a stale map pool. Less Arena gametypes… Remixed WZ maps per WZ mode, recycled map geometry, all for the sake of adding to the map count. All of that content could’ve been so much better, but the efforts were dedicated elsewhere… into the REQ system content, the countless armor sets… risky/high cost modes like Breakout and correlated assets, that wasn’t successful with the player-base. Nobody plays it, hence what good really IS that component of the game? All that content could’ve been forgotten and those efforts could’ve been used in improving the Arena experience/content.

The thing is though, the REQ system CAN be a great thing, but they really need to keep costs down while producing content that fans will want to BUY, cheap to produce with high PERCEIVED value… weapon AND armor skins. It gives players customization options they crave at a minimal developer expense.

It’s SO important that future Halo games offer the VARIETY in critical, EXPERIENCE DEFINING components of the game, to keep players engaged and interested… to keep them having fun and wanting to return to play, again and again. Grindy games end up feeling like a chore to a lot of people, because they’re lacking that “spark” that microtransaction/RNG systems take away from the design and development side of the game’s actual gameplay experience and polish. The game NEEDS to be good, first and foremost. That’s how the dev team needs to be managed and directed… produce the HIGHEST quality game FIRST. Then worry about the marketable items. It’s upper level priorities… and they’re NOT in the right place in recent years. Not only in Halo, as seen in H5, but in the gaming industry as a whole. Corporate greed on the rise, innovation on the decline.

Companies are not INVESTING in quality design… they’re cranking out bare-bones experiences with marketable expansions and added RNG/cosmetic content to suck more and more cash from their consumers. Players want the full, satisfying game the moment they buy one. It’s traditionally what gamers have come to expect… but when you have to buy a game like Destiny essentially 3 times over to have a fulfilling experience? That’s pretty steep… I love Destiny… I love Halo, but man, where do you draw the line and put the customer first?

47

> 2533274873580796;46:
> > 2535405116054664;2:
> > I’m just gonna say this right now, not all fans want the same thing. I’m in the same boat as you, OP, I grew up with CE when I was 5 and I’ve been a diehard ever since. However, I am fine with how the 343 games have been handled (for the most part, I understand there were development issues in some cases) and I eagerly await more from them. Call me a 343 fanboy or a traitor if you will, but I like what they have, and I can follow it just fine. Now, I know others have issues with the 343 games, some of which have left because of them. If they don’t like it and want to voice their opinions, then that’s fine, you want to be heard and I’m not gonna stop you. But I just want to make it clear that even some of the old fans can still appreciate what 343 has done with the series. I dunno, food for thought I guess.

All my post was doing was to serve as a reminder to the OP that some people do enjoy the 343 games for what the end product is as a whole, me included. And as I said, there are various people, with you being one of them (assumption time) based on the nature of your post, who do not feel that 343 is doing a good job with the Halo series and as a result the end product is considered to be sub-par for the course, which is also a good opinion to have. If you feel that something is wrong and you can offer constructive criticism, then by all means, go ahead. I just feel the need to point out that there do exist quote unquote, “true” Halo fans who do have an enjoyable experience in the recent installments. If you are going to say that this opinion is wrong and/or invalid or if you say that this “sub-par” mentality also applies to whoever genuinely enjoys what the end product has turned out to be regardless of prior shortcomings, then that’s where the issue arises.

48

> 2535405116054664;47:
> > 2533274873580796;46:
> > > 2535405116054664;2:
> > > I’m just gonna say this right now, not all fans want the same thing. I’m in the same boat as you, OP, I grew up with CE when I was 5 and I’ve been a diehard ever since. However, I am fine with how the 343 games have been handled (for the most part, I understand there were development issues in some cases) and I eagerly await more from them. Call me a 343 fanboy or a traitor if you will, but I like what they have, and I can follow it just fine. Now, I know others have issues with the 343 games, some of which have left because of them. If they don’t like it and want to voice their opinions, then that’s fine, you want to be heard and I’m not gonna stop you. But I just want to make it clear that even some of the old fans can still appreciate what 343 has done with the series. I dunno, food for thought I guess.
>
> All my post was doing was to serve as a reminder to the OP that some people do enjoy the 343 games for what the end product is as a whole, me included.

This isn’t directed at you so don’t take offense, I just think that there are a lot of people that have ill-informed opinions and understanding of how certain aspects of the game affect the others, or the franchise in general… whether it’s related to the idea of Halo “brand-identity” or in how the game is affected by business/development decisions…

There’s an awful lot of “I want this, I want that…” without really understanding some of the game’s shortcomings (heavy aim WAS actually a thing, for example… something that the average player will not pick up on… Also, player perceptions of the content pool are not favorable, for example) and rather than addressing these very important issues that impact the experience, people still want jet-packs, or Falcons, or complete and utter useless items like even MORE armor sets than we already have. Not only have some of these things already been assessed to have been bad for Halo, others are simply costly additions from a development standpoint that really offer limited to no added benefits to the overall user-base. These costs need to be better managed and prioritized towards improving the player’s in-game experience and attributed content. These directly impact a game’s longevity and long-term success.

I just think that we need to challenge each other’s mindsets, because not only will it make us more aware of the game’s problems (and I’m not saying H5 is a bad game… for a DEDICATED player, I think they’re doing a decent, passable job, but there’s a few things I strongly feel that they could do better) but when the average player comes into a new game with new abilities and doesn’t have a fleshed out tutorial, when maps are recycled ideas of each other, when there’s a lack of variety in game modes, missing features at launch, it’s not a good look… When players lack understanding of the game or are missing some of their favorite key features, they will get frustrated and/or lose interest.

More Falcons and armor and jet-packs aren’t going to fix these far more critical problems, and developing them only takes away from 343’s ability to address them in the grand scheme. It’s great if players like different aspects of the game, but we need to all understand what is truly important and what isn’t.

A more informed community can influence the development of a better game…