Things that true Halo fans deserve.

[TripleTap117]

> 2533274873843883;4:
> I was willing to go along with you for some of that… right up until you started in with the whole “Bungie was so awesome” garbage. Bungie made more than their share of missteps (armor lock and reticle bloom being, either one alone, worse than anything I’ve seen 343 do) and was, so far as I can remember, a hell of a lot less responsive to their customers. The fact that they’ve gone on to create the trash-story, low-res, splitscreen-free, pay-three-times-get-one-game, sprint-fest that is Destiny pretty much shows them for exactly what they are: a for-profit company focused on wringing every last dollar out of their fans. As a matter of fact, if you’re so disenchanted with Halo then you should probably take Destiny for a spin. It’s absolutely none of the things you want a game to be, but it’s made by Bungie so you’ll probably love it anyway.

I wont argue that Reach didnt have its own missteps but Reach was still a Halo game through and through. The trash 343 put out is not even close. Id take armor lock and bloom over the straight up train wreck, unispired, unapologetic COD ripoff that was H4 any day. And the only resemblance H5 has to the franchise is the name Halo. Every other aspect of the game has been drastically changed!

And you conveniently left out the other side of the Destiny coin that is ACTIVSION. Id definitely be pinning the final finacial call on them, just like Microsoft! There both money hungry evil corporations far as im concerned. Im not impressed with 343 Halo anymore then I am with Bungies Destiny. I havent even played Destiny. I just feel like they both suck. You can trash Bungie all you want. When it comes to Halo they still did it infinitely better.

[recon_Z_3_R_0]

> 2533274807278095;21:
> > 2533274873843883;4:
> > I was willing to go along with you for some of that… right up until you started in with the whole “Bungie was so awesome” garbage. Bungie made more than their share of missteps (armor lock and reticle bloom being, either one alone, worse than anything I’ve seen 343 do) and was, so far as I can remember, a hell of a lot less responsive to their customers. The fact that they’ve gone on to create the trash-story, low-res, splitscreen-free, pay-three-times-get-one-game, sprint-fest that is Destiny pretty much shows them for exactly what they are: a for-profit company focused on wringing every last dollar out of their fans. As a matter of fact, if you’re so disenchanted with Halo then you should probably take Destiny for a spin. It’s absolutely none of the things you want a game to be, but it’s made by Bungie so you’ll probably love it anyway.
>
> I wont argue that Reach didnt have its own missteps but Reach was still a Halo game through and through. The trash 343 put out is not even close. Id take armor lock and bloom over the straight up train wreck, unispired, unapologetic COD ripoff that was H4 any day. And the only resemblance H5 has to the franchise is the name Halo. Every other aspect of the game has been drastically changed!
>
> And you conveniently left out the other side of the Destiny coin that is ACTIVSION. Id definitely be pinning the final finacial call on them, just like Microsoft! There both money hungry evil corporations far as im concerned. Im not impressed with 343 Halo anymore then I am with Bungies Destiny. I havent even played Destiny. I just feel like they both suck. You can trash Bungie all you want. When it comes to Halo they still did it infinitely better.

Having set aside the Bungie vs. 343 or Activision vs. Microsoft issue, I still can’t get behind the idea that Old Halo provided a superior experience to New Halo, and I absolutely will never get behind the idea that sales numbers or player retention tell anything like the whole story about the “success” or “failure” of a game. There are just too many other variables in these equations for those figures to be anything more than a very rough gauge of popularity - and that popularity is compared to what else was drawing the attention of gamers at the same time, not a comparison of one Halo title to the next. And as I’ve said so many times, success, as measured by sales or player retention, is not necessarily any indication of quality. If it was then we’d be in a CoD forum discussing Infinite Warfare.

On the subject of Halo 4 I will say this: Like all Halos (and I mean ALL) it was a very solid and deeply flawed game. For some people loadouts were heresy, for others they added a new layer of complexity and challenge beyond the primevally simple speed/accuracy continuum. For some the lack of in-game visibility to ranks was a deal-breaker while others appreciated the end of boosting, account-buying, smurfing, and a lot of other bad behaviors that are driven by visible ranks, and which are once again in H5 as rampant as they were in H3. Speaking of Halo 5, there is no shortage of controversial features in the current title either and I’m sure there’s no point in going over any of them. The point is that one man’s poison may well be another man’s balm, and I think it’s a great over-simplification to assume that because Halo 3 sold more copies that it was a better game, or that because it held players over a longer period that it had superior replayability.

We could debate the relative merits of New Halo all day long, but one point I feel confident in making is that if Reach, H4, and H5 had been nothing more than new campaigns with H3 mechanics and multiplayer then you would have a formula which ensures the end of the franchise just as readily as trying something new and failing to get it right.

[awakeningrager1]

> 2533274880633045;19:
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > I never said i speak for the community which you wrongfully implied,.
>
> ‘the classic community players have been pushed aside’
> “No its been forever marked in the communities eyes and memories”
> “not alienate their CORE AUDIENCE,”
> “The way 343 have handled Halo so far has told the community very clearly how they have handed community feedback and the franshcise overall,”
> There are a couple others; implied or not you seem to generalize your view to a large portion of the community.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > halo 1-3 may feel like its the same game over and over but it is not depending on your perspective of halo.They innovated the EXISTING game,they added features people loved while keeping the mechanics the same and not alienate their CORE AUDIENCE,
> > .
>
> Again that was what I said in the initial post you quoted (the one you didn’t read.). They don’t feel like they same thing. They changed…every time. They were three unique experiences (seven now.) I’ve long had to argue against this idea that the three games played the same way … they didn’t. You seem to indicate that’s what you want. The same game rehashed every few years and I’m just not that interested. It’s the same reason I haven’t bought a COD game in 7 years. I used to enjoy the campaign, but there wasn’t anything different after a while.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > the movement,crouch jumping,classic zoom,no abilities…
>
> I quite like the movement in H5. You can still crouch jump. You either like something or you don’t.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > Halos place at XLB clearly tells us the state that halo is in,FACT…
>
> You really haven’t read anything I’ve written have you? Halo’s place on the popular games list tells you nothing about why it’s there. You don’t just get to say it’s because of “X” without proper support of that position. It isn’t that simple. Yes…Halo isn’t as popular as it once was. A lot of games aren’t. You don’t get to proclaim the reason why without either ruling out the 10,000 other possibilites or supporting your arguement and you can’t do either. You can’t claim the thing you are trying to explain as the evidence for your explanation.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > Its been Xbox Flagship game for years, and given where halo is at doesnt that tell you something?
>
> There is a cake on the table in the break room downstairs that read’s “Happy birthday, Richard.” Doesn’t that tell you that the magical cake fairy rode in on her purple unicorn and put it there?
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > The way 343 have handled Halo so far has told the community very clearly how they have handed community feedback and the franshcise overall,.
>
> Except the community is telling them a million contradictory things. There are as many opinions about Halo as there are people who play/read/watch Halo. Someone will always be unhappy. Again this goes into what I was pointing out above; you’re opinions aren’t the only ones out there.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > They’ve done good,they’ve done bad.
>
> I agree on that and it will continue to be that way; the same as bungie before them and every other game studio.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > A halo 3 anniversary was 343’s chance of at least giving classic halo players some love for their favorite game…
>
> I will be so glad when E3 has come and gone and that -Yoink- finally stops. Halo 3 is playable on the xbox one right now as part of the MCC. Halo 3 is playable on the 360 right now. I don’t have a clue why people assume a fresh coat of paint would somehow sell 10 billon copies and be massivly popularted when the bit of gloss they added didn’t do it so far. It just doesn’t follow. Halo 3 may be your favorite Halo, but it wasn’t everyone’s (I usually offer ODST as mine, despite the lack of multiplayer.)
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > I would like if at least halo 6 removed sprint n spartan charge w ads for close range weapons only to slow the gameplay down like some members in the community,
>
> Yes, some people want that. I wouldn’t be thrilled about it. One POV isn’t inherently better than the other. I still haven’t heard a decent anti-sprint arguement in the last 10 years. Though, this will not become a discussion of sprint there is a thread for that already.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > even pros players have expressed
>
> Yeah, I don’t care in the slightest what pro players think. They aren’t authorites, the get one opinon the same as anyone else. I don’t play ‘competetive’ halo and have no interest in it. I play to relax at the end of the day or week. I play to laugh and while dodging warthogs thrown out of mancannons and outthinking that party of 4 I seem to get matched against. I play for fun; nothing else.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > wanting gameplay to slow down a bit.halo 5 is too complicated with to many button presses,and required use of either a elite,scuf controller unless you dont want to claw.
>
> I don’t ‘claw’ and the game works just fine for me. I wouldn’t mind them reworking everything around a 5 shot BR, 6 shot magnum/dmr etc, but that’s just my opinon. I’d like similar changes to the autos (maybe a range reduction),
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > Also 343 made a traditional Halo game pre halo 4 and the people that they hired to test it loved it and 343 said screw their opinions and hired people who hated Halo and used their opinions instead according to this article,doesnt that seem weird and ironic thing to do?
>
> I can’t read that from here; so I can’t respond or check the sources.

Neither side of the community can be called “true halo fan”,we’re all halo fans each in our own way as that is a subjective opinion.You say i generalize,that not needed as it is pretty OBVIOUS to both sides of the community that they have not handled it properly as in the case of halo 4,mcc launch for 1 year + and h5 lack of content n features,n REQ packs w no true incentive for fun n real grinding like h3 n reach, for months.Once again to you"subjectively it felt like the same game I beg to differ as thats whate made halo specifically Unique,it did not need to be power ranger call of duty halo titanfall,was CS GO the game w same mechanics unsucessful,NO.Yo do know that crouch jumping in h5 is in most cases almost useless w the fact that you can c.amber?.Of course i wrote what you read,did you read mine?.Of course Halos place 1 reason out of many it VERY clearly tells us Xbox Flagship Halo is not even in top 10 most played game as h3 was cause its not the Best Halo.The whole Halo did not have competition argument is debunked before and as of Favyns’ video on it: “Halo was only REALLY POPULAR Because it had No Competition” is a BS Argument .

Moving on I dont play h3 unless its mcc or h3a as it had not been added to the list of BC titles and i dont own the original game now,a remaster would be better and generate more hype n love for halo than halo 6 w same mechanics.Dou you really think some h2w news w no h6 news or just a tvh show announcement would be alot of hype like an h3a,not alot possibly,also it would bring back portions of classic community that 343 have pushed aside.I’ve seen decent anti sprint arguments n sp charge is a needles skilles homing missile mechanics so you can run around like a headless chicken around the map n charge people,sprint breaks the game by lowering your weapon and breaking bungies golden triangle of always having your gun up,grenade,melee.I did say even pro players as non pros also have wished some or all abilities removed. I play comp and for fun.Well some players would say h5 is complicated as its obviously is for me as well,as you dont have 1 ability,you have several,especially complicated when you play at high level as players even get pain/hands/wrist/fingers hurting cause of how much button pressing you do,obvious if you pay for fun its diff.Thanks for the debate MR monitor.

[Comedic_Hermit]

> 2533274871425050;23:
> Neither side of the community can be called “true halo fan”,we’re all halo fans each in our own way

Yes; not true scotsman. I’m certain you aren’t reading what I’ve written and so I’m unlikely to respond to you again after that.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> as that is a subjective opinion.You say i generalize,that not needed as it is pretty OBVIOUS to both sides of the community that they have not handled it properly as in the case of halo 4,mcc launch for 1 year + and h5 lack of content n features,n REQ packs w no true incentive for fun n real grinding like h3 n reach, for months.

There aren’t two sides to the community. There are millions of sides to the community. I can find people on this site whose favorite Halo game is Halo 4! There are people that love the req system.You really need to go back to the beginning and read what I’ve written instead of throwing out your poorly thought out pre-made rants.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> Once again to you"subjectively it felt like the same game I beg to differ

Seven unique experiences. Every game has been different. Read what I’ve written and respond to me if you want more of my attention. If your going to try and build strawmen at least make them resemble my arguments.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> as thats whate made halo specifically Unique,was CS GO the game w same mechanics unsucessful,

Halo has never been ‘unique.’ All games are derivative. CE’s primary things were getting the shield system and the auto-aim correct for a console game and having more open spaces than most of the other FPS’s at the time. All of those features were in other games; just not as well implemented.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> ,it did not need to be power ranger call of duty halo

And CE didn’t need to be startship troopers/quake/ unreal tournament on a console. This is your opinion getting stated as fact again and in this case you’re trying to wind people up with ‘power rangers.’ Your views are as subjective as the view your accusing your straw man of.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> Yo do know that crouch jumping in h5 is in most cases almost useless w the fact that you can c.amber?

Clamber? Crouch jumping is faster than clamber, doesn’t get you stuck in an animation for half of a second. Even as a casual gamer I can see the benefit of that.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> .Of course i wrote what you read,did you read mine?.

Yes. I’m actually reading what you wrote and responding to your arguments; you should try it some time.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> Of course Halos place 1 reason out of many it VERY clearly tells us Xbox Flagship Halo is not even in top 10 most played game as h3 was cause its not the Best Halo.

I’ve already addressed this multiple times. It doesn’t work that way. You don’t get to state that something is the cause of something else without offering evidence and offering the phenomenon you are trying to explain as the evidence of your claim is ludicrous.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> The whole Halo did not have competition argument is debunked before and as of Favyns’ video on it: “Halo was only REALLY POPULAR Because it had No Competition” is a BS Argument .

Again, I don’t care about competetive Halo. It means literally nothing to me. The competetive crowd are welcome to it. They can do what they with it. I have no dog in that fight. Youtuber’s aren’t reliable sources, some kid with a webcam is only going to sway my opinions if he provided well-sourced arguments which almost non of them do.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> Moving on I dont play h3 unless its mcc or h3a as it had not been added to the list of BC titles and i dont own the original game now,a remaster would be better and generate more hype n love for halo than halo 6 w same mechanics.

Opinion stated as fact without any sourcing.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> Dou you really think some h2w news w no h6 news or just a tvh show announcement would be alot of hype like an h3a,

Halo 6? Yes. Yes I do. It won’t happen at E3, but yes it would likely cause a lot more bluster than h3A in my opinion. I’m mostly hoping E3 will quiet these kids who claim it’s happening against all evidence.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> not alot possibly,also it would bring back portions of classic community that 343 have pushed aside

It makes perfect sense that the a subsection of the community that isn’t playing the game that’s easily available now for 30 dollars or less are going to play it if they get the opportunity to pay 60 more dollars for it…

> 2533274871425050;23:
> I’ve seen decent anti sprint arguments n sp charge is a needles skilles homing missile mechanics so you can run around like a headless chicken around the map n charge people,sprint breaks the game by lowering your weapon and breaking bungies golden triangle of always having your gun up,grenade,melee.

Take it to the sprint thread and rehash that there; this won’t become sprint thread. I stand by what I said.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> I did say even pro players as non pros also have wished some or all abilities removed.

I still don’t care what pro-players have to say. They get one voice in the community. The same as everyone else; they shouldn’t get any more input than anyone else. Holding them up as an authority isn’t going to convince me of anything.

> 2533274871425050;23:
> I play comp and for fun.Well some players would say h5 is complicated as its obviously is for me as well,as you dont have 1 ability,you have several,especially complicated when you play at high level as players even get pain/hands/wrist/fingers hurting cause of how much button pressing you do,obvious if you pay for fun its diff.Thanks for the debate MR monitor.

Fine; Have fun. If you respond to me again without having read my arguments I’m not going to respond. If you want more of my attention than you need to respond to what I wrote, not what you want me to have written. Have a nice day.

[recon_Z_3_R_0]

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> It would not become dull ?to some it would be refreshing:).Tell that to games like cs go and gears of war who have mostly stayed true to their core mechanics without radically changing the core gameplay mechanics.CS GO a PC game have used the same mechanics for years and is more popular than Halo and i dont see their fans complaining about changing the core gameplay mechanics,cause when you do that like 343,you alienate the core established audience who played halos 1-3 to mostly cater to people who play mechanics from other shooters i.e a new market/audience i.e the classic community players have been pushed aside since Halo 4.And the community becomes even more split,a lot of people even in halo community are just tired of halo having these borrowed mechanics from other games instead of being its own thing,innovate the game yes,but dont change core gameplay.Halos place at XLB charts is 1 proof of many others that tells us the state of Halo.

Saying that CS is more popular than Halo is using some of the data to suit your purpose while ignoring other data. CS has a very loyal following, but the worst Halo outsold the best Counterstike by a healthy margin.

343 did not alienate their core established audience who played Halos 1-3. They mildly disappointed some, alienated others, and gave a new and better experience to yet another group of veterans. Generalizations about what the “core audience” wants are another example of looking at some of the data and making highly speculative generalizations to align with your worldview. What the heck is a “core audience” anyway? Veterans players who’ve been around from the start, or is it just shorthand for “players who agree with my point of view no matter how many or how few there may be?” Or maybe it’s the exact number, in millions, of players who bought Halo 3 and didn’t buy Halo 4. Because there couldn’t possibly be any other reason at all why a guy would have dropped away from the franchise other than invisible ranks, motion mechanics, loadouts, and weapon drops?

The thing everyone seems to forget is that videogames that last as long as CS or Halo are not surviving by keeping their original playerbase. With rare exceptions, those then-fifteen-year-olds are now graduated, working full-time, maybe married, maybe starting families, and maybe paying mortgages. Just how much time do you think those guys have to devote to the videogame that consumed their high school years? Of course, as a developer, you’re not gonna build a game around that customer. That customer may still buy a copy of the new Halo, but he’s not gonna spend five hours a day putting it on top of the XBL most-played charts. He can’t. He has other fish to fry. You try to innovate enough to capture the current audience and to not alienate the vets, whoever of them may still be around. Sometimes you come close to getting it right, and sometimes you don’t, but I have a hard time imagining a warmed-over Halo 3 with a new campaign pleasing very many people. To further the example, if the CS formula is still successful it’s because it continues to appeal to new audiences, not because 1999 gamers are still pouring untold hours into the game. And lastly, if this really was an argument in favor of stringent continuity then I’m pretty sure we’d both be playing CS right now and would have forgotten about Halo long ago. And yet, here we are.

I’m not trying to say that New Halo beats Old Halo. I have a healthy number of problems with every Halo ever made. As a matter of fact, Halo 5 is the game that’s finally made me start to question things which you obviously started questioning long ago. The difference is that while I suspect H5 motion mechancis have made the game unplayable for me, I’m still not entirely sure, and I still wouldn’t question the developer’s right to have them whether or not I personally find them to be entertaining or repugnant. But in the end I still get incredibly suspicious when I hear people make the same old “Halo 3 outsold Halo 5 proving Old Halo was better and Halo fans don’t want advanced motion and 343 hates its fans” argument. To me it looks like it’s based on a lot of half-truthes and faulty logic.

[DatPancakeBoi]

Classic Halo gameplay wouldn’t survive in todays’ market with sprinting and wallruns and stuff.
Not to say they should have that stuff, but the slow gameplay would be stomped on by being to boring for the average CoD player or something.

[Golden_Ranger]

I rather enjoy the direction 343 has taken the gameplay. I would rather play H5 than any other halo multiplayer at the moment. If 343 removed micro transactions and spartan charge, the multiplayer would be near perfect in my opinion.

[ShadowAngel9228]

> 2535469741293678;26:
> Classic Halo gameplay wouldn’t survive in todays’ market with sprinting and wallruns and stuff.
> Not to say they should have that stuff, but the slow gameplay would be stomped on by being to boring for the average CoD player or something.

Won’t know till they try, regardless you’re wrong on old school gameplay not working. Overwatch is the best example of that, then you have Doom, battleborn, CS:GO. Mechanics don’t get outdated so I fail to understand this “classic won’t work in today’s market”.

id rather they go old school over 50+ games rehashing sprint and various other mechanics where it’s not interesting at all.

[Glitched_Punk]

That puppy analogy was messed up, dude.

[I_Bobby_l]

comedyshermit I read your response to me and those to other contributors on this thread, and I still think ignoring the fact that the first 3 games absolutely had the same core mechanics is delusional. It really isn’t up for debate even. Bungie called the “weapon-grenade-melee” format the “Golden Triangle of Halo”.

Although I do think sales numbers and player retention are clear indications of Halo’s decline, I will supply a personal anecdote as to why this golden triangle is the core Halo experience. Tonight I played Halo 5 for the first time in over a year to see if they have added any playlists that are fun and don’t have some kid sprinting at me from a camping spot body slamming me like a power ranger – no luck finding one. I spent almost the entire first round relearning the controls of Halo 5, but I play Halo 3 almost everyday. Shouldn’t one be able to go from one Halo to the next without having to worry about a much different button layout? I used to play Halo online with my older brother and his friends every since Halo 3, and although a few of them bought Halo 5 – most of them quit after Halo Reach because that was when the golden triangle was first ruined–, none of them kept playing because they couldn’t bother sit down and relearn their once favorite shooter. They have all been in the real world with jobs and families for a while, so when they want their taste of Halo, they jump on the still-broken MCC because they don’t simply have the time or patience to relearn new controls–to most of them the abilities are not appealing anyway.

I am an extremely passionate Halo fan who has read the lore and all, so my opinion doesn’t represent the average consumer, but a casual player’s does. I was in college living with some friends when Halo 5 came out, and my one buddy–he had previously played Halo 3 and also a bit of Reach and 4, but didn’t like the latter two with the new gimmicks- wanted to try it, but he quit after the first few games because he said he felt like he was playing a Call of Duty / Halo hybrid with the addition of sprint, ADS and all. He played the MCC basically daily though, but was still only an average Halo player and average gamer overall. He often would go into a game of Halo CE or Halo 2 and play basically to the same caliber as Halo 3. He obviously didn’t know button glitches and what not, but he still only had to worry about the golden triangle, so he did well.

I don’t think it makes any sense arguing that projectiles and things like that at all define the experience. I remember the upset in the community, but most of the annoyance was due to the hit-registry online. Locally, people never complained about projectiles since they connected when they were actually supposed to, and within a certain range, that was very consistent on a target. If we are going to argue about nuances like that, I will argue how hit-markers alone have taken a huge chunk of class and character out of Halo.

A game’s success is all about the gameplay experience, and Reach, 4, and 5 haven’t provided that core experience that a returning Halo player is used to. And this is key since people buy a sequel because they like the previous title, but if what they love about the previous title is gone, why would they bother sticking around?

And although you don’t think that a pro’s opinion is more valuable than the average player’s, I’d still advise you to consider that professional Halo players have played these games an unfathomable amount; so much more than any of us on the forums. When someone has experienced something this much to the extent of near-mastery, I would consider what he/she has to say about the balance of the mechanics and on what would be both more fun and more competitive for everyone.

[Comedic_Hermit]

> 2533274870601938;30:
> I still think ignoring the fact that the first 3 games absolutely had the same core mechanics is delusional. It really isn’t up for debate even.
[/quote]
Define ‘core mechanics.’ I get a bit tired of the random buzzwords; if you mean they are essentially the same and played the exact same way then no, they didn’t. Each game changed significantly from the previous ones.
>
>
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> > 2533274870601938;30:
> > Bungie called the “weapon-grenade-melee” format the “Golden Triangle of Halo”.
>
> Ah, another meme. All those things are still fully capable of being performed and ‘movement’ still made up an end that wasn’t mentioned.
>
>
>
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> > 2533274870601938;30:
> > Although I do think sales numbers and player retention are clear indications of Halo’s decline,
>
> You can think what you’d like; however you can’t support that claim sufficiently. I’ve pointed out some of the reasons already and don’t really feel the need to rehash them, save to say knowledge isn’t about confirming your beliefs it’s about comporting to reality.
>
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> > 2533274870601938;30:
> > I will supply a personal anecdote as to why this golden triangle is the core Halo experience. To- no luck finding one.
>
> Fun is something subjective; just because you don’t enjoy Halo 5 doesn’t lessen the experience of anyone else.
>
>
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> > 2533274870601938;30:
> > I spent almost the entire first round relearning the controls of Halo 5, but I play Halo 3 almost everyday. Shouldn’t one be able to go from one Halo to the next without having to worry about a much different button layout?
>
> No. There is absolutly no reason to assume that having palyed an earlier game in the series you can instantly pick up and play a newer one without a learning curve. The last Final Fantasy game I completed was 7 (I never bothered to finish 8), I would have no right to assume that I could pick up the latest one and play it through without learning it. There was an adjustment period for me for every Halo game (3 to reach was the longest for me.) I’d also point out that you can adjust the controls how you’d like and finding a set-up you’re comfortable with takes time.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;30:
> > I used to play Halo online with my older brother and his friends every since Halo 3, and simply have the time or patience to relearn new controls–to most of them the abilities are not appealing anyway.
>
> I’m in my thirties; I’ve been playing video games for most of my life. The most common reason I’ve seen for the people I was friends with to give up on gaming (or Halo specifically) was lack of time due to children, work, or the like. The second most common reason is lack of money, simply not being able to afford to keep up with buying a console every few years and a few games. My anectdotal experiences are far different than yours. That is one of the many reason anectdotal evidence is virtually meaningless.
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;30:
> > I am an extremely passionate Halo fan who has read the lore and all, so my opinion doesn’t represent the average consumer, but a casual player’s does. I was in college living with some friends when Halo 5 came out, and my one buddy–he had previously played Halo 3 and also a bit of Reach and 4, but didn’t like the latter two with the new gimmicks- wanted to try it, but he quit after the first few games because he said he felt like he was playing a Call of Duty / Halo hybrid with the addition of sprint, ADS and all. He played the MCC basically daily though, but was still only an average Halo player and average gamer overall. He often would go into a game of Halo CE or Halo 2 and play basically to the same caliber as Halo 3. He obviously didn’t know button glitches and what not, but he still only had to worry about the golden triangle, so he did well.
>
> And I’m sorry your mate feelst that way. That still doesn’t allow you to generalize that view to more than one person or hold him as an authority.
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;30:
> > I don’t think it makes any sense arguing that projectiles and things like that at all define the experience. I remember the upset in the community, but most of the annoyance was due to the hit-registry online. Locally, people never complained about projectiles since they connected when they were actually supposed to, and within a certain range, that was very consistent on a target. If we are going to argue about nuances like that, I will argue how hit-markers alone have taken a huge chunk of class and character out of Halo.
>
> Projectiles were one change out of many; the whole changed not through one feature, but through many. Every game has been different and likely will continue to be so.
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;30:
> > A game’s success is all about the gameplay experience,
>
> That is a ludicrous statement. Absolutely brilliantly made enjoyable games have sold next to nothing while poorly designed (sometimes horribly playing) games have sold millions. There are a ton of factors that influence whether a game is going to be succesful; cost, the enviroment of the time, what system it’s on, how good the advertising is, how many youtubers and streamer get paid to hype it these days, how well know the property is, and dozens of other factors. Making a good well-made game is no guarantee of sucess.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;30:
> > and Reach, 4, and 5 haven’t provided that core experience that a returning Halo player is used to.
>
> That’s your opinion. My opinion would be that Halo 5 is a return to form; even starts, arena style game play, with some new fun modes added on. Most of my complaints about the game (lack of game modes, social playlists) have been addressed. The one remaining one (the poor quality of the story) is the only one that remains.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;30:
> > And this is key since people buy a sequel because they like the previous title, but if what they love about the previous title is gone, why would they bother sticking around?
>
> Not everyone who buys a sequel has played the previous game (or games) Franchises have a tendency to change over time look at the redux tomb raider it has virtually nothing to do with the old playstation games.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;30:
> > And although you don’t think that a pro’s opinion is more valuable than the average player’s, I’d still advise you to consider that professional Halo players have played these games an unfathomable amount; so much more than any of us on the forums. When someone has experienced something this much to the extent of near-mastery, I would consider what he/she has to say about the balance of the mechanics and on what would be both more fun and more competitive for everyone.
>
> Except they aren’t. Look at the MLG thing; they altered the game to fit how they wanted to play. “pro-players” are good at playing the game one specific way. In previous games when a mechanic didn’t fit the way they play they removed or altered. Having played the game a lot or even being an expert on playing the game doesn’t grant you a knowledge of game design or what is or should be fun. Their concern with mechanics is specifically limited to the way they play the game. That doesn’t make them inherently right. Having faster reflexes offers them no extra voice. The kid who has done nothing but forge since Halo 3 has as much say any member of the team that won the HCS.
>
> Had to snip a few things for space.

[J_Teeps]

A lot of great points have been made in this thread.

At the end of the day, if you like ‘old’ Halo, you have CE-3 + MCC. If you like ‘new Halo’ you have MCC + H4-5. If you like both (me), you have all of them.

It doesn’t matter what one is most popular, what defines a true Halo fan, insert million other examples here.

What matters is what you like.

If you truly don’t like the new Halo, move on to other things that you do like. You will be missed, as I want as many Halo fans as possible in this wonderful community. But it’s a disservice to yourself to buy Halo and stay involved in the community if you truly don’t enjoy the games anymore.

[I_Bobby_l]

> 2533274880633045;31:
> > 2533274870601938;30:
> >

comedyshermitI would think 343 feels differently than you about pro players since they have hired them to test their games and give feedback. MLG settings only slightly alter the regular gameplay–a casual player wouldn’t notice, except in Halo Reach perhaps.

Of course every installment of a series plays slightly differently, but the new Halo titles play far too differently from the original trilogy. 343 has tried to attract fans from other games (COD, Titanfall, etc.) with each installment instead of embracing the golden triangle, which you refer to as a meme even though the creators of the franchise coined the term.

You mention how other franchises change from one to the next, but you don’t mention competitive games. The core dynamics of the most successful competitive franchises do not stray far at all from title to title. Competitive players like a certain type of gameplay, and changing that will push them away.

If my friends all share the same thoughts on the new mechanics of Halo, I can absolutely generalize. Many of them are from different parts of the world, yet all of them feel the same way; how can one not come to conclusions based on such consistent data?

343 no longer shares player population data as Halo has always done. There is a reason for this. They make most of their money through microtransactions, and the game is designed around this. They don’t care about the players that play thousands of hours of matchmaking because they love Halo. They care about the people who spend hundreds of dollars gambling for req packs. Supporting the company that created this system --and loves this system-- that pushes teenagers under 18 to use real money for in-game gambling is unethical and insane.

[I_Bobby_l]

> 2533274804898926;33:
> A lot of great points have been made in this thread.
>
> At the end of the day, if you like ‘old’ Halo, you have CE-3 + MCC. If you like ‘new Halo’ you have MCC + H4-5. If you like both (me), you have all of them.
>
> It doesn’t matter what one is most popular, what defines a true Halo fan, insert million other examples here.
>
> What matters is what you like.
>
> If you truly don’t like the new Halo, move on to other things that you do like. You will be missed, as I want as many Halo fans as possible in this wonderful community. But it’s a disservice to yourself to buy Halo and stay involved in the community if you truly don’t enjoy the games anymore.

I don’t enjoy Halo 5 due to the gameplay and the fact that it revolves around warzone and microtransactions. Warzone is fine, but a system which pushes people --kids under 18 included-- to use real money for in-game gambling is unethical.

[I_Bobby_l]

> 2533274804898926;33:
> A lot of great points have been made in this thread.
>
> At the end of the day, if you like ‘old’ Halo, you have CE-3 + MCC. If you like ‘new Halo’ you have MCC + H4-5. If you like both (me), you have all of them.
>
> It doesn’t matter what one is most popular, what defines a true Halo fan, insert million other examples here.
>
> What matters is what you like.
>
> If you truly don’t like the new Halo, move on to other things that you do like. You will be missed, as I want as many Halo fans as possible in this wonderful community. But it’s a disservice to yourself to buy Halo and stay involved in the community if you truly don’t enjoy the games anymore.

Also, people that like ‘old’ Halo don’t have the MCC because it is still so broken. More than 50% of the time, I end up in a game with uneven starts even though no one intentionally quit, or it crashes right before the game starts. The entire MCC community is very upset by this and tries to voice concerns daily, but 343 has pushed all of it under the rug. So no, “we” don’t have a working Halo game to play right now that we enjoy.

[Comedic_Hermit]

> 2533274870601938;34:
> I would think 343 feels differently than you about pro players since they have hired them to test their games and give feedback. -

I would say that 343 puts far more stock (and imo far too much stock) than I do in what the ‘pros’ think.

> 2533274870601938;34:
> MLG settings only slightly alter the regular gameplay-a casual player wouldn’t notice, except in Halo Reach perhaps.

I disagree with that altering movement speed and altering items on the map are significant changes that I managed to notice.

> 2533274870601938;34:
> Of course every installment of a series plays slightly differently, but the new Halo titles play far too differently from the original trilogy. 343 has tried to attract fans from other games (COD, Titanfall, etc.) with each installment instead of embracing the golden triangle, which you refer to as a meme even though the creators of the franchise coined the term.

We’ll disagree on that. Besides I notice you seem to forget that a lot of those COD players left Halo 3 for what they felt was a more fun game. I don’t see people claiming that CE stole it’s mechanics from quake/unreal or any of the other arena shooters. There is no shame in using a good idea.

> 2533274870601938;34:
> You mention how other franchises change from one to the next, but you don’t mention competitive games. The core dynamics of the most successful competitive franchises do not stray far at all from title to title. Competitive players like a certain type of gameplay, and changing that will push them away.

That really isn’t going to work. Assuming you know how a group of people are going to respond isn’t going to win you points. Some competetive games also change from iteration to iteration; with those responsible often intentionally tweeking the ‘meta’ of the game.

> 2533274870601938;34:
> If my friends all share the same thoughts on the new mechanics of Halo, I can absolutely generalize. Many of them are from different parts of the world, yet all of them feel the same way; how can one not come to conclusions based on such consistent data?

Yes, people you’ve specifically sought out to spend time with agree with you. Shocking. And this hand selected group of people who agree with you must be representative of the populace at large. So by definition a poll of the people I spoke to last week would predict the next election in their respective countries? Again, this isn’t how knowledge works; one hasty generalization is just as bad as the next.

> 2533274870601938;34:
> 343 no longer shares player population data as Halo has always done.There is a reason for this

I assumed that an argument from ignorance was to follow this, instead you never gave a reason at all.

> 2533274870601938;34:
> . They make most of their money through microtransactions, and the game is designed around this.

Yes. Microtransactions make money and so have invaded the vast majority of gaming. It’s unfortunate; but 343 have at least implemented in a way that minimizes the flaws of such a system.

> 2533274870601938;34:
> .They don’t care about the players that play thousands of hours of matchmaking because they love Halo.

-Yoink-. The fact that this website exists, that there are regular community updates, that quite a lot of the things people have asked for have made it into the game, and the statements of 343 team members show that to be demonstrably false. They can’t give everyone what they want, but the idea that they don’t want the people who play the game to enjoy it is absurd.

> 2533274870601938;34:
> They care about the people who spend hundreds of dollars gambling for req packs.

The use of ‘Gambling’ as a scare word is interesting. Yeah; those people who’ve spent money on the packs are ‘players.’ I’ve spent about 30 dollars on req packs (40 if you count the voices of war DLC which shouldn’t really count.) I’ve done that so that I would have some stuff to give away to the community. I never bought a req pack for myself, nor do I have the intention to do so in the future. If I purchase a pack; it’ll be as a gift.

> 2533274870601938;34:
> Supporting the company that created this system --and loves this system-- that pushes teenagers under 18 to use real money for in-game gambling is unethical and insane.

Again ‘gambling.’ That’s kind of funny. It’s an exchange of digital goods for services; a more apt comparison would be those bubble machines which used to be everywhere. You would but a dime or a quarter in and get something (usually one of 5 or 6 different cheap toys/stickers/etc.) You always get something for your purchase even if it isn’t what you wanted. One would hope that anyone with a debit/credit card attached to their Microsoft account would be smart enough to not spend money they don’t have or allow their children unfettered access to them, though I’m sure that isn’t the case in all situations. It isn’t ‘unethical’ that I enjoy a game that has a system that caused them problems due to their own stupidity. Gambling isn’t in and of itself unethical imo which make your use of it to attach negative sentiment a bit odd.

For a little business; try to refrain from multi posting. Unless you’ve run out of character space you can quote more than one person at a time and make use of the edit button,

[H8TRFFC]

Not really sure what a ‘true Halo fan’ is? I mean, is that just being a fan of CE, 2 and 3, or just the Bungie Titles, or every piece of Halo media in existence regardless of genre or medium? It seems like a bit of a nebulous concept to base your arguments on, but hey, that’s just my opinion.

Anyway, going forward, I just hope the movement mechanics are scaled back, as far as Halo 6 goes.
My issues with Halo 5 were mostly narrative and visually based, so if Halo 6 has a half decent story with the very promising Halo Wars 2 art-style, I’ll definitely be interested again. I’d just, prefer it not to be quite as much of a sweatbox as Halo 5 is.
I mean, a 4 shot magnum? Really?

[I_Bobby_l]

comedyshermit An argument from ignorance? Care to elaborate on that assumption?

I usually assume “monitors” are just as informed as myself on the status of the franchise, which is why I don’t care to go into depth with my explanations and use sources. I assume you know this website well enough to be able to search any of my previous threads I’ve started which provide all of the sources anyone needs to understand my points. Halo 5 never comes into the top 10 most played games on xbox according to the XBOX website, and it usually hovers around 20th. This is bad, especially for Halo. Utilizing EA’s player count on several of its games, you can estimate Halo’s population count, which doesn’t exceed that of Halo Reach on most occasions --which still has a player count-- and probably doesn’t exceed the dreadfully broken MCC’s population count – though that is harder to measure. (I do still stand by the claim that the MCC’s population would more than double that if it had released as a working game – IT STILL DOESN’T WORK.)

My “hasty” generalization is one developed from the opinions of players who don’t know each other and who have individually played thousands of hours of Halo, and gave Halo 5 just as much of a chance as other entries. It is a local generalization, sure, but it absolutely represents a piece of the community, regardless of its size. One would have to be blind not to acknowledge the huge divide in the community consisting of people who like the enhanced mobility and those who do not.

When I said 343 doesn’t care about the people putting all of their time into matchmaking, I meant that they prioritize warzone and req packs over players who are seeking an experience like the MCC since they can capitalize on req packs. A die-hard classic Halo fan who isn’t making 343 money isn’t going to really matter in 343’s eyes. Gambling is not a scare word. Req packs are gambling. It isn’t an exchange for goods. It is an exchange for the chance to get goods; that is gambling. Those little bubble machines aren’t relevant because those machines are build for that purpose. Halo shouldn’t be built around gambling, and warzone, Halo 5’s most popular playlist, was built around it.

Are you blaming the players or 343 when you say “It isn’t ‘unethical’ that I enjoy a game that has a system that caused them problems due to their own stupidity”?

If you are referring to players, well then shame on you. The consumer is absolutely NEVER to blame. 343 is to blame for implementing such an unethical system. If one player gets an item he/sh wants after one req pack, and it takes another player 5 req pack purchases to get the same item, that isn’t fair and is a greedy and unethical way to incentivize players, especially under the age of 18. 343 took out gore and language out of a franchise in order to sell to a younger audience, and it’s okay for those younger players to gamble in-game and possibly develop an early habit from it? That’s out of control.

[Comedic_Hermit]

> 2533274870601938;39:
> comedyshermit An argument from ignorance? Care to elaborate on that assumption?

An argument from ignorance or an appeal to ignorance fallacy; I.E. someone believing the following
If a proposition has not been disproved, then it cannot be considered false and must therefore be considered true.
If a proposition has not been proven, then it cannot be considered true and must therefore be considered false.
Obviously that isn’t the case. You cannot consider something true; simply because it hasn’t been disproved. (There is an invisible dragon in my garage.)
Likewise you cannot assume that because something hasn’t been proven that it is false; (You would be right however not to believe that claim.)

> 2533274870601938;39:
> I usually assume “monitors” are just as informed as myself on the status of the franchise, which is why I don’t care to go into depth with my explanations and use sources. I assume you know this website well enough to be able to search any of my previous threads I’ve started which provide all of the sources anyone needs to understand my points. Halo 5 never comes into the top 10 most played games on xbox according to the XBOX website, and it usually hovers around 20th.

I’ll respond before reading on; even if I accept this as true; the reason ‘why’ cannot be shown. Any assumption will be unsupported and lead into the above. “I believe it and you can’t prove me wrong non-sense.”

> 2533274870601938;39:
> This is bad, especially for Halo.Utilizing EA’s player count on several of its games, you can estimate Halo’s population count, which doesn’t exceed that of Halo Reach on most occasions --which still has a player count-- and probably doesn’t exceed the dreadfully broken MCC’s population count – though that is harder to measure. (I do still stand by the claim that the MCC’s population would more than double that if it had released as a working game – IT STILL DOESN’T WORK.)

Shockingly, I’ve already addressed this.

> 2533274870601938;39:
> My “hasty” generalization is one developed from the opinions of players who don’t know each other and who have individually played thousands of hours of Halo, and gave Halo 5 just as much of a chance as other entries. It is a local generalization, sure, but it absolutely represents a piece of the community, regardless of its size. One would have to be blind not to acknowledge the huge divide in the community consisting of people who like the enhanced mobility and those who do not.

"If my friends all share the same thoughts on the new mechanics of Halo’ You don’t know your friends? Playtime doesn’t give you more of a voice than anyone else. I’ve been playing Halo since 2001; that doesn’t make me special. My opinion isn’t any more valid than someone else’s because of it. Everyone’s voice should be heard. Yes, I realize that a segment of the community hate the movements system and furthermore that there is a segment of the community that hates literally every other tiny aspect of the game. You’ll find a group that hates the battle rifle and thinks we never should have lost the CE magnum. That doesn’t make them the majority instaneaously (and I would argue it isn’t possible to know the majority opinion as most methodologies would be limited to people who sought them out.) The vast majority of Halo players never make it to sites like this one, reddit, or the like.

> 2533274870601938;39:
> When I said 343 doesn’t care about the people putting all of their time into matchmaking, I meant that they prioritize warzone and req packs over players who are seeking an experience like the MCC since they can capitalize on req packs.

Except arena is still there and gets roughly equivalent support to warzone; yes it isn’t the game you specifically want…but if you want an even starts arena shooter it’s there to be had.

> 2533274870601938;39:
> A die-hard classic Halo fan who isn’t making 343 money isn’t going to really matter in 343’s eyes.

So a company prefers customers to non-customers? I don’t accept your claim, but I don’t think you phrased it well either.

> 2533274870601938;39:
> Gambling is not a scare word.

You seem to be using it as one.

> 2533274870601938;39:
> Req packs are gambling. It isn’t an exchange for goods. It is an exchange for the chance to get goods; that is gambling.

You always get something; it’s a grab bag; a bubble machine. A req pack may be a ‘gamble’, but it certainly isn’t gambling. I’ve never opened a req pack and recieved nothing.

> 2533274870601938;39:
> Those little bubble machines aren’t relevant because those machines are build for that purpose. Halo shouldn’t be built around gambling, and warzone, Halo 5’s most popular playlist, was built around it.

Those little bubble machines are the same as the req system; you put money in knowing that you’ll recieve an item from the pool; maybe that cool rubber bat maybe the rainbow stickers and you have the choice to partake. That isn’t gambling.

> 2533274870601938;39:
> Are you blaming the players or 343 when you say “It isn’t ‘unethical’ that I enjoy a game that has a system that caused them problems due to their own stupidity”?

If they spend more money than they want to spend or let their children spend their money without knowing what it is; they are responsible. That isn’t a matter of blame. People are responsible for their actions.

> 2533274870601938;39:
> If you are referring to players, well then shame on you. The consumer is absolutely NEVER to blame. 343 is to blame for implementing such an unethical system.

So you’re claiming that the existence of the req system forced someone to spend money they didn’t want to? Forced someone to do something against their will? I’m really hoping you didn’t think that through, becuase people need to take responsibility for their actions and not blame the opportunity to do something. An unlocked door isn’t a lisence to rob a house.

> 2533274870601938;39:
> If one player gets an item he/sh wants after one req pack, and it takes another player 5 req pack purchases to get the same item, that isn’t fair and is a greedy and unethical way to incentivize players, especially under the age of 18.

So, if I make it abundantly clear that there is a slight chance you’ll get the item you want and say 98% chance that you don’t…there is a free method of gaining ‘chances’ for the item and you choose to pay for them anyway it’s my fault that you chose to buy them. The world doesn’t work that way. You made a choice to get the item and as long as I was clear up front with what you were buying the mistake (if you view it as one) rests on your shoulders.

> 2533274870601938;39:
> 343 took out gore and language out of a franchise in order to sell to a younger audience,

Gore is a method of attracting a younger audience. Kids like gore and swearing; it’s only as you get older that you realize those things don’t make something ‘cool’ in and of themselves.

> 2533274870601938;39:
> and it’s okay for those younger players to gamble in-game and possibly develop an early habit from it? That’s out of control.

I think you need to develop a better understanding of personal responsibility and what gambling (and problem gambling) is. You don’t seem to have thought your views through.

[Sealki]

Halo 5 has a pretty amazing multiplayer experience. The story could have used work, but 4’s story was good, so Halo 6 is looking pretty good if they can strike a good balance and have a good story and great multiplayer. Not everybody wants the same thing and I think 343 is doing their best at giving us the best.