Things that true Halo fans deserve.

Community General Discussion
1

I’m a die hard Halo fan. I’ve been playing ever since I was a little kid, and I still play today. However, I don’t nearly play Halo as much as I did back in the day. No, that is not because I’m growing out of Halo, or because my life is extremely busy now that I am an adult, but rather, it just doesn’t feel the same.

For example, say you have a puppy. That puppy is so small, cute, and it means the world to you. Years later, the dog becomes mentally and physically disabled, is deaf, and does nothing but lazily slouch on the floor all day. Of course, you will love that dog because of all of the fun memories you have had, and because he was a large part of your life, so you continue to buy it food, water, and medicine.

That is what caring owners do, and that is what true Halo fans have done. We have spent money on this video game called Halo 5: Guardians, and it doesn’t feel anything like the original Halos. What we fell in love with is now just a lazy, shell of its former self. We cling to the far-fetched hope that 343 will learn from the mistakes, but how many titles must we go through, how much money will we waste, just waiting for that one perfect game to satisfy our nostalgia?

It is sickening. 343industries and Bungie are two complete different companies with two completely different mindsets. Bungie was dedicated to making everything fun and enjoyable, while 343 is more focused on making marketable material. It is truly saddening that one of the greatest gaming franchises of all time is being milked for money to one of the world’s largest corporations.

343industries. Microsoft. Give the fans what they want.

2

I’m just gonna say this right now, not all fans want the same thing. I’m in the same boat as you, OP, I grew up with CE when I was 5 and I’ve been a diehard ever since. However, I am fine with how the 343 games have been handled (for the most part, I understand there were development issues in some cases) and I eagerly await more from them. Call me a 343 fanboy or a traitor if you will, but I like what they have, and I can follow it just fine. Now, I know others have issues with the 343 games, some of which have left because of them. If they don’t like it and want to voice their opinions, then that’s fine, you want to be heard and I’m not gonna stop you. But I just want to make it clear that even some of the old fans can still appreciate what 343 has done with the series. I dunno, food for thought I guess.

3

Yeah I am also a original player. Halo 2 on original Xbox, gold and the original halo. These were so great spent summers playing hours days weeks. I think 343 has done pretty decent in introducing different facets to the game, not saying all are great but some are nice sprint. Not much for should charge or whatever. But games got to evolve. I do think that 343 is failing to capitalize on a huge halo market. Yes we have halo 1-5 (6 on the way) and yes we love the story of master chief. But I think as someone who hasn’t read any of the books really, I want games involving the history of halo, Spartans, marines, aliens, etc. I guess what I am saying is halo isn’t as big as starwars, but it’s has/had huge gaming community, why can’t it branch out stories like starwars (rogue one) for instance. So much can be done while also following master chief. What do you all think.?

4

I was willing to go along with you for some of that… right up until you started in with the whole “Bungie was so awesome” garbage. Bungie made more than their share of missteps (armor lock and reticle bloom being, either one alone, worse than anything I’ve seen 343 do) and was, so far as I can remember, a hell of a lot less responsive to their customers. The fact that they’ve gone on to create the trash-story, low-res, splitscreen-free, pay-three-times-get-one-game, sprint-fest that is Destiny pretty much shows them for exactly what they are: a for-profit company focused on wringing every last dollar out of their fans. As a matter of fact, if you’re so disenchanted with Halo then you should probably take Destiny for a spin. It’s absolutely none of the things you want a game to be, but it’s made by Bungie so you’ll probably love it anyway.

5

I also wonder how much of it has to do with the corporate studios that head up both Bungie and 343i, and how it’s just a sign of the time.

I feel that Bungie had more freedom from Microsoft in their Halo days, because they were all ready promoting Microsoft’s brand new console (the direct x box), and they already had an established idea for what they wanted to bring to that console in Halo: Combat Evolved. People didn’t know what to expect from the Xbox, and as such Bungie had a little more freedom, especially when CE was such a resounding success. You have a good thing going, you let it go - you don’t try to micromanage it from the start. Fast forward to Bungie under Activision, and you take all the x-factors away. There is no brand new console you’re exclusively working on. There are expectations, not only from the console, but the studio (how many times did we see “from the makers of Halo”) from both the fans and the developer. And the developer has become known as one of the most notorious studios for pumping out games and having every bit of them be a financial success. Which, in the age of the past five years, means mimicking smart phones and the wave of microtransactions.

All I’m trying to say is that maybe both Bungie and 343i aren’t the ones at fault, and that it’s just this generation of gamers that is. The microtransactions in Halo and all the expansions for Destiny, which IMO is a garbage game to start, blow my mind that people will pay for that stuff, and yet they do and they do in droves. You can’t really blame the studios for knowing how to market to them, because obviously monetary wise they’re the ones that matter. Us grumpy old men that -Yoink- we have to pay $60 for a game at the start are the ones who have words fall on deaf ears.

6

You have kind of a no-true Scotsman thing going there, not to mention generalizing your views to the populace at large.

> 2535461097114890;1:
> I’m a die hard Halo fan. I’ve been playing ever since I was a little kid, and I still play today. However, I don’t nearly play Halo as much as I did back in the day. No, that is not because I’m growing out of Halo, or because my life is extremely busy now that I am an adult, but rather, it just doesn’t feel the same.

I’m sorry you feel that way. I’ve played Halo since 2001 when I was in undergrad and none of them felt the same. Every game has been a new and different experience, sometimes improving on the past with a few misteps and sometimes being mostly misteps with a few improvements on the past. H5 seems more like the former to me at least.

> 2535461097114890;1:
> For example, say you have a puppy. That puppy is so small, cute, and it means the world to you. Years later, the dog becomes mentally and physically disabled, is deaf, and does nothing but lazily slouch on the floor all day. Of course, you will love that dog because of all of the fun memories you have had, and because he was a large part of your life, so you continue to buy it food, water, and medicine.That is what caring owners do,

That would fall under being a responsible and decent human being, not a ‘caring owner.’

> 2535461097114890;1:
> and that is what true Halo fans have done. We have spent money on this video game called Halo 5: Guardians, and it doesn’t feel anything like the original Halos. What we fell in love with is now just a lazy, shell of its former self. We cling to the far-fetched hope that 343 will learn from the mistakes, but how many titles must we go through, how much money will we waste, just waiting for that one perfect game to satisfy our nostalgia?

That may be what you’ve done, but your opinions aren’t necessarily held by the group at large. You can’t assume that everyone thinks or feels the way you do. I’m along for the ride and enjoying myself for the most part.

> 2535461097114890;1:
> It is sickening. 343industries and Bungie are two complete different companies with two completely different mindsets. Bungie was dedicated to making everything fun and enjoyable, while 343 is more focused on making marketable material. It is truly saddening that one of the greatest gaming franchises of all time is being milked for money to one of the world’s largest corporations.

From the forum rules, 'Comparison is the thief of joy. Do not create threads or posts that compare games, companies, communities, or players. Discussing and comparing game features is allowed."

All corporations are out to make a profit; bungie was no exception.

> 2535461097114890;1:
> 343industries. Microsoft. Give the fans what they want.

It’s impossible to give every fan what they want, mostly because they want contradictory things. This again seems to be you assuming that everyone feels the way you do and in reference to your title you don’t get to determine what a ‘true halo fan’ is. ‘Halo fans’ is a group with one determining factor being fond of the halo universe or games.

7

Ah yes, and what makes someone a true Halo fan?

Oh wait, there’s no such thing.

8

> 2533274880633045;6:
> You have kind of a no-true Scotsman thing going there, not to mention generalizing your views to the populace at large.
>
>
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> > 2535461097114890;1:
> > I’m a die hard Halo fan. I’ve been playing ever since I was a little kid, and I still play today. However, I don’t nearly play Halo as much as I did back in the day. No, that is not because I’m growing out of Halo, or because my life is extremely busy now that I am an adult, but rather, it just doesn’t feel the same.
>
> I’m sorry you feel that way. I’ve played Halo since 2001 when I was in undergrad and none of them felt the same. Every game has been a new and different experience, sometimes improving on the past with a few misteps and sometimes being mostly misteps with a few improvements on the past. H5 seems more like the former to me at least.

I disagree. The original Halo trilogy provided a unique experience that Halo 4 and 5 --even Reach-- can’t. When a friend rings me up and asks to play Halo, he/she means any of the games from CE-3. The new Halo games provide a new, unique experience, and I am not saying it is bad–I personally don’t find it fun or unique–but it is different than the original formula.

Just going along for the ride with Microsoft on their various attempts to match other AAA titles is not an effort to support the franchise in my opinion. It is clear that Halo 5 is the least popular main entry into the franchise both in terms of sales and player retention. In the past few years, fans of other franchises have protested the games’ directions–even though plenty of people supported those directions–, and the developers decided to return to the roots in the most important regards. For Halo, the bare experience comes down to the gameplay. If someone who played Halo CE extensively, but never played any of the other games, were to pick up a controller tomorrow and play Halo 5, he/she would be trash and would have to learn a new game entirely. If that someone were to play Halo 2 or 3, he/she would be able to play pretty well since the core mechanics are the same.

9

> 2533274870601938;8:
> I disagree. The original Halo trilogy provided a unique experience

Three unique experiences. Each game is different. Often vastly so; from CE to 2 had the switch to online play as opposed to lan, the intro of the sword, hitscan, button combos, the removal of the god pistol and AR, Br and SMG introduced, SMG Starts, The maps got better, the vehicles could be boarded, vehicles could be destroyed, fall damage disappeared, dual wielding…I could actually go on for quite a while. I see this a lot in people on the other side claiming that ‘classic’ is better, this idea that the first three games played the same and that just isn’t correct. The mechanics changed each time. No halo game is the same as any other.

H3 removed some of that; changed other things, and became it’s own unique thing. The switch to projectile weaponry being it’s biggest mistep imo.

> 2533274870601938;8:
> that Halo 4 and 5 --even Reach-- can’t.

While your entitled to your opinion, I’ve had some degree of fun with every Halo multiplayer and campaign. H4 had the worst multiplayer and 5 had the worst story IMO. Yet, I’ve seen people defend both to the death being that their opinion of it is different than mine. You can’t quantify an experience and just because you or I prefer one to another doesn’t mean that someone who feels the opposite is wrong. As with the OP you seem to be assuming that your views are shared by everyone here, when there is no evidence that is the case.

> 2533274870601938;8:
> When a friend rings me up and asks to play Halo, he/she means any of the games from CE-3.

And that’s fine. I have friend who’ve given up gaming all together and friends who only want to play X. That doesn’t mean that those games are “Halo” and the newer ones “Aren’t” It just means that’s how you intereact with those friends.

> 2533274870601938;8:
> The new Halo games provide a new, unique experience, and I am not saying it is bad–I personally don’t find it fun or unique–but it is different than the original formula.

Other than this idea that the first three Halo’s played the same (which isn’t true) that is just a matter of opinion. I’m sorry you don’t find the more recent Halo games fun, but I hope that you find some enjoyment from the series.

> 2533274870601938;8:
> Just going along for the ride with Microsoft on their various attempts to match other AAA titles is not an effort to support the franchise in my opinion.

Alternatively I’m playing games I enjoy set in a universe I’ve come to care about.

> 2533274870601938;8:
> It is clear that Halo 5 is the least popular main entry into the franchise both in terms of sales and player retention.

> 2533274870601938;8:
> In the past few years, fans of other franchises have protested the games’ directions–even though plenty of people supported those directions–, and the developers decided to return to the roots in the most important regards.

So?

> 2533274870601938;8:
> For Halo, the bare experience comes down to the gameplay. If someone who played Halo CE extensively, but never played any of the other games, were to pick up a controller tomorrow and play Halo 5, he/she would be trash and would have to learn a new game entirely. If that someone were to play Halo 2 or 3, he/she would be able to play pretty well since the core mechanics are the same.

That’s an assumption. One that would seem false to me. Every game has a learning curve and will always have one. Unless you’d prefer them to put out the same game with the same mechanics with new levels every couple of years, because I think that would be a bit dull.

10

That whole puppy bit was shocking to read.

Harrowing, actually.

11

Well, I’ve been here since Halo 1. And I only became a “”""“true”"""" Halo fan when 343 took the franchise. I mean by “true” when I really started to care and follow everything Halo related.

12

I have been playing Halo for years and I really enjoy playing Halo 5, but I love being told I’m not a True Halo Fan, so please continue to say you speak for all halo fans even though some of us have been playing halo for 15 years and yet still enjoy that they are trying to experiment. In my opinion the Spartans feel more like super soldiers than ever before, I am hoping for a better story in 6, but I will maintain that gameplay wise, I really enjoyed the campaign in 5 and still play warzone, firefight, and arena usually at least once a day still.

Everyone has their own opinion, and I understand that some of the changes that have been made have upset people and they don’t like them, and providing feedback to developers will continue to have them consider ways to improve 6. However, be careful who you call “True Fans” and who doesn’t count - I respect your opinion, just don’t assume its the only one… oh right internet, I forgot.

13

I’m agree with you in many ways but some fans want change. I’ll admit that halo doesn’t feel the same and I agree the game was better back then but I am fine with new changes and exposed to a new side of halo.

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> 2533274880633045;9:
> > 2533274870601938;8:
> > I disagree. The original Halo trilogy provided a unique experience
>
> Three unique experiences. Each game is different. Often vastly so; from CE to 2 had the switch to online play as opposed to lan, the intro of the sword, hitscan, button combos, the removal of the god pistol and AR, Br and SMG introduced, SMG Starts, The maps got better, the vehicles could be boarded, vehicles could be destroyed, fall damage disappeared, dual wielding…I could actually go on for quite a while. I see this a lot in people on the other side claiming that ‘classic’ is better, this idea that the first three games played the same and that just isn’t correct. The mechanics changed each time. No halo game is the same as any other.
>
> H3 removed some of that; changed other things, and became it’s own unique thing. The switch to projectile weaponry being it’s biggest mistep imo.
>
>
>
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> > 2533274870601938;8:
> > that Halo 4 and 5 --even Reach-- can’t.
>
> While your entitled to your opinion, I’ve had some degree of fun with every Halo multiplayer and campaign. H4 had the worst multiplayer and 5 had the worst story IMO. Yet, I’ve seen people defend both to the death being that their opinion of it is different than mine. You can’t quantify an experience and just because you or I prefer one to another doesn’t mean that someone who feels the opposite is wrong. As with the OP you seem to be assuming that your views are shared by everyone here, when there is no evidence that is the case.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;8:
> > When a friend rings me up and asks to play Halo, he/she means any of the games from CE-3.
>
> And that’s fine. I have friend who’ve given up gaming all together and friends who only want to play X. That doesn’t mean that those games are “Halo” and the newer ones “Aren’t” It just means that’s how you intereact with those friends.
>
>
>
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> > 2533274870601938;8:
> > The new Halo games provide a new, unique experience, and I am not saying it is bad–I personally don’t find it fun or unique–but it is different than the original formula.
>
> Other than this idea that the first three Halo’s played the same (which isn’t true) that is just a matter of opinion. I’m sorry you don’t find the more recent Halo games fun, but I hope that you find some enjoyment from the series.
>
>
>
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> > 2533274870601938;8:
> > Just going along for the ride with Microsoft on their various attempts to match other AAA titles is not an effort to support the franchise in my opinion.
>
> Alternatively I’m playing games I enjoy set in a universe I’ve come to care about.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;8:
> > It is clear that Halo 5 is the least popular main entry into the franchise both in terms of sales and player retention.
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;8:
> > In the past few years, fans of other franchises have protested the games’ directions–even though plenty of people supported those directions–, and the developers decided to return to the roots in the most important regards.
>
> So?
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274870601938;8:
> > For Halo, the bare experience comes down to the gameplay. If someone who played Halo CE extensively, but never played any of the other games, were to pick up a controller tomorrow and play Halo 5, he/she would be trash and would have to learn a new game entirely. If that someone were to play Halo 2 or 3, he/she would be able to play pretty well since the core mechanics are the same.
>
> That’s an assumption. One that would seem false to me. Every game has a learning curve and will always have one. Unless you’d prefer them to put out the same game with the same mechanics with new levels every couple of years, because I think that would be a bit dull.

It would not become dull ?to some it would be refreshing:).Tell that to games like cs go and gears of war who have mostly stayed true to their core mechanics without radically changing the core gameplay mechanics.CS GO a PC game have used the same mechanics for years and is more popular than Halo and i dont see their fans complaining about changing the core gameplay mechanics,cause when you do that like 343,you alienate the core established audience who played halos 1-3 to mostly cater to people who play mechanics from other shooters i.e a new market/audience i.e the classic community players have been pushed aside since Halo 4.And the community becomes even more split,a lot of people even in halo community are just tired of halo having these borrowed mechanics from other games instead of being its own thing,innovate the game yes,but dont change core gameplay.Halos place at XLB charts is 1 proof of many others that tells us the state of Halo.

15

> 2533274871425050;14:
> It would not become dull ?to some it would be refreshing:).

Yes, like call of duty modern warfare 3 is a refreshing change from Modern warfare 2…and 1. There are only so many times I’m willing to buy the same game without a twist on it. I know some people feel compelled to pick up that next copy of football manager or madden, but I’m still playing the 2013 version on my phone. Without something new there isn’t a reason for me to buy another copy of the same thing.

> 2533274871425050;14:
> Tell that to games like cs go and gears of war who have mostly stayed true to their core mechanics without radically changing the core gameplay mechanics.CS GO a PC game have used the same mechanics for years and is more popular than Halo and i dont see their fans complaining about changing the core gameplay mechanics,cause when you do that like 343,you alienate the core established audience who played halos 1-3 to mostly cater to people who play mechanics from other shooters

You didn’t read my post. The first three halo games didn’t play the same. Each game was different changing and experimenting. I realize ‘core mechanics’ is a common buzzword, but it’s meaningless in this case. There have only been. The popularity of any other series is irrelevant (particularly since they aren’t directly comparable.) CS also doesn’t realize 60 dollar games every few years.

> 2533274871425050;14:
> i.e a new market/audience i.e the classic community players have been pushed aside since Halo 4

There was an entire website devoted to how awful Halo 2 was; segments of the population are never satisfied. That doesn’t make their views inherently right and certainly doesn’t make them the majority (something we have no way of estimating.)

> 2533274871425050;14:
> And the community becomes even more split,a lot of people even in halo community are just tired of halo having these borrowed mechanics from other games instead of being its own thing,innovate the game yes,but dont change core gameplay

Again assuming your position is the majority. Were you also tired of playing C.E. with it’s borrowed mechanics? Or Halo 2? I love this series, but there were very few things about it that were truly original to itself.

> 2533274871425050;14:
> .Halos place at XLB charts is 1 proof of many others that tells us the state of Halo.

Proof of what exactly? Stating a phenomenon as evidence of a specific claim when there are dozens of other possible reasons for that phenomenon offers nothing of value in supporting the claim. And Halo 5 still ranks quite a bit above the so called ‘classic options’ on that list. If it was ‘classic game play’ that was missing then why isn’t Halo 3 (which is still playable) higher than H5 on that list? or Reach? Or the MCC? Even if I accept the evidence you offer for that argument it works against you.

16

> 2533274871425050;16:
> > 2533274880633045;15:
> > You didn’t read my post. The first three halo games didn’t play the same. Each game was different changing and experimenting. I realize ‘core mechanics’ is a common buzzword, but it’s meaningless in this case. There have only been. The popularity of any other series is irrelevant (particularly since they aren’t directly comparable.) CS also doesn’t realize 60 dollar games every few years.
> >
> >
> > > 2533274871425050;14:
> > > i.e a new market/audience i.e the classic community players have been pushed aside since Halo 4
> >
> > There was an entire website devoted to how awful Halo 2 was; segments of the population are never satisfied. That doesn’t make their views inherently right and certainly doesn’t make them the majority (something we have no way of estimating.)
> >
> >
> > > 2533274871425050;14:
> > > And the community becomes even more split,a lot of people even in halo community are just tired of halo having these borrowed mechanics from other games instead of being its own thing,innovate the game yes,but dont change core gameplay
> >
> > Again assuming your position is the majority. Were you also tired of playing C.E. with it’s borrowed mechanics? Or Halo 2? I love this series, but there were very few things about it that were truly original to itself.
> >
> >
> > > 2533274871425050;14:
> > > .Halos place at XLB charts is 1 proof of many others that tells us the state of Halo.
> >
> > Proof of what exactly? Stating a phenomenon as evidence of a specific claim when there are dozens of other possible reasons for that phenomenon offers nothing of value in supporting the claim. And Halo 5 still ranks quite a bit above the so called ‘classic options’ on that list. If it was ‘classic game play’ that was missing then why isn’t Halo 3 (which is still playable) higher than H5 on that list? or Reach? Or the MCC? Even if I accept the evidence you offer for that argument it works against you.
>
> I did read it.Halo 3 was at top 10 even after its launch,sold more units,was more popular and more beloved.Halo 1-3 still had the same core mechanics without changing the gameplay.Halo 5 did not even sell close to it.I did say 1 proof i,e reason out of many.Halo 5 is another copy of other games to satisy a diff market not the core audience who were there from the beginning,if you have the core mechanics there,you innovate with features,you have the playlists and core features and you communicate with your fans and support it,you can have a thriving game and population.Even w halo 2 issues the community was still 1 whole community.Proof that Halo is not as big,popular and most played as halos 1-3,the facts are all there you just have to dig and look through it find it,i give criticism where its due and praise where due.Because h3 is a 360 game n is no longer supported of course it does not have the same player count.We need to accept the state Halo is in and hope it can come closer to making if possible,halo great again.Whatever 343 will do,it will always upset either side of community.When 343 took over,they had the chance to bring back those community of players who left after reach and unite as much of the community as possible,they had the chance,instead they did an complete 180 and decided to say,“hey you guys who built and supported halos 1-3,bye bye you’re no longer needed,we have another audience new to cater to”.H5 Is fun but most people would say it would not even come close to how good halo 1-3 was in terms of gameplay,story and features,most people grew up playing those games and fell in love w them,unless you started w reach or h4 and did not play classic ones.Also do you think after call of duty halo 4,mcc disaster launch 1 year + and h5 still using armor abilities(just renaming them and making us power ranger spartans) and lacking social playlist at launch,some for months and also core features excluded completely or that arrived later,that that just gives 343 more positivity on how they have handled Halo?No its been forever marked in the communities eyes and memories,Bungie did makes mistakes,but the’re games were more sucessfull and that is facts.i hope 343 takes good care of halo with all this and comes close to halos 1-3 sucesses as possible

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> 2533274871425050;16:
> I did read it.Halo 3 was at top 10 even after its launch,sold more units,was more popular and more beloved.

Would you like to crawl though the B.net archives and find the endless debate about how awful the return to projectiles were (bonus points if you pick out one of my old GTS.), the equipment, the melee system, the slow movement, and countless other things? More beloved? That’s hilarious. I’ve been around long enough to see the same cycle repeat a few times. A new Halo releases “IT’S THE WORST GAME EVER!!!” wait I should have mispelled a few words there. Then two games later, It’s the best Halo game. Hands down. I assume you’re going to try an argument from popularity fallacy with this; which of course would still be invalid with or without you considering the massive changes in the gaming environment since then.

> 2533274871425050;16:
> Halo 1-3 still had the same core mechanics without changing the gameplay

Again, didn’t read my post. The games didn’t play the same. “The core mechanics” that CE through 3 shared are still in Halo 5 with a few things on top.

> 2533274871425050;16:
> .Halo 5 did not even sell close to it.I did say 1 proof i,e reason out of many.

So a system excusive on a floundering system didn’t sell as well as the flag ship title on a massively popular system? Even if I accept that as fact; it’s still an argument from ignorance. You can’t justify your claim that this is the reason for the difference. There have been a lot of changes to the very environment of gaming in the last 10 years. New franchises have come; many others are gone completely. People play (and view) games differently now.

> 2533274871425050;16:
> Even w halo 2 issues the community was still 1 whole community

In that case it still is. One population; people who are fond of the universe of Halo. Considering the divide then (and every game since) has been between peopel who liked this current game and people who didn’t. Nothing changes.

> 2533274871425050;16:
> Proof that Halo is not as big,popular and most played as halos 1-3,the facts are all there you just have to dig and look through it find it,i give criticism where its due and praise where due.Because h3 is a 360 game n is no longer supported of course it does not have the same player count.We need to accept the state Halo is in and hope it can come closer to making if possible,halo great again.Whatever 343 will do,it will always upset either side of community.

Did you even read this? There are differences between facts and beliefs.

> 2533274871425050;16:
> When 343 took over,they had the chance to bring back those community of players who left after reach and unite as much of the community as possible,they had the chance,instead they did an complete 180 and decided to say,“hey you guys who built and supported halos 1-3,bye bye you’re no longer needed,we have another audience new to cater to”.H5 Is fun but most people would say it would not even come close to how good halo 1-3 was in terms of gameplay,story and features,most people grew up playing those games and fell in love w them,unless you started w reach or h4 and did not play classic ones

Yes; you didn’t get everything you wanted exactly the way you wanted it. You were mistreated. I was quite unhappy with Halo 5 at launch. Over the course of the updates; they 343 fixed most of the problems I have with the game (the story aside.) I don’t see the point in spewing bile at them because they didn’t release CE with online play and fancy new graphics. I remember playing CE in the dorms with my mates, but I’ve had that experience already. I don’t need to repeat it. I want to go forward and see what comes next. I want the next Halo experience. I have the memories from 7 previous games and look forward to the fact that there will be something brand new in a few years to expand on the story (hopefully better than H5 did) and offer me new game modes and brilliant community customs. I don’t want the same game released over and over; I want something to justify me saving to buy a game.

> 2533274871425050;16:
> .Also do you think after call of duty halo 4,mcc disaster launch 1 year + and h5 still using armor abilities(just renaming them and making us power ranger spartans) and lacking social playlist at launch,some for months and also core features excluded completely or that arrived later,that that just gives 343 more positivity on how they have handled Halo?No its been forever marked in the communities eyes and memories,Bungie did makes mistakes,but the’re games were more sucessfull and that is facts.i hope 343 takes good care of halo with all this and comes close to halos 1-3 sucesses as possible

And yet you aren’t the community are you? You’re one member of it. Much like the OP you seem to think that you personally speak for them. No one does. The vast majority of the people who love this universe aren’t on waypoint, reddit, or anything else. They play the game or read the books when the can. There isn’t a voice for the community itself. We aren’t going to agree, but you should realize that you don’t speak for everyone. I can only offer voice to my own opinions, you should do the same. You don’t speak for the community; no one does. We all love Halo.

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> 2533274871425050;16:
> > 2533274871425050;16:
> > I did read it.Halo 3 was at top 10 even after its launch,sold more units,was more popular and more beloved.
>
> Would you like to crawl though the B.net archives and find the endless debate about how awful the return to projectiles were (bonus points if you pick out one of my old GTS.), the equipment, the melee system, the slow movement, and countless other things? More beloved? That’s hilarious. I’ve been around long enough to see the same cycle repeat a few times. A new Halo releases “IT’S THE WORST GAME EVER!!!” wait I should have mispelled a few words there. Then two games later, It’s the best Halo game. Hands down. I assume you’re going to try an argument from popularity fallacy with this; which of course would still be invalid with or without you considering the massive changes in the gaming environmant since then.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;16:
> > Halo 1-3 still had the same core mechanics without changing the gameplay
>
> Again, didn’t read my post. The games didn’t play the same. “The core mechanics” that CE through 3 shared are still in Halo 5 with a few things on top.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;16:
> > .Halo 5 did not even sell close to it.I did say 1 proof i,e reason out of many.
>
> So a system excusive on a floundering system didn’t sell as well as the flag ship title on a massively popular system? Even if I accept that as fact; it’s still an argument from ignorance. You can’t justify your claim that this is the reason for the difference.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;16:
> > Even w halo 2 issues the community was still 1 whole community
>
> In that case it still is. One population; people who are fond of the universe of Halo. Considering the divide then (and every game since) has been between peopel who liked this current game and people who didn’t. Nothing changes.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;16:
> > Proof that Halo is not as big,popular and most played as halos 1-3,the facts are all there you just have to dig and look through it find it,i give criticism where its due and praise where due.Because h3 is a 360 game n is no longer supported of course it does not have the same player count.We need to accept the state Halo is in and hope it can come closer to making if possible,halo great again.Whatever 343 will do,it will always upset either side of community.
>
> Did you even read this?
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;16:
> > When 343 took over,they had the chance to bring back those community of players who left after reach and unite as much of the community as possible,they had the chance,instead they did an complete 180 and decided to say,“hey you guys who built and supported halos 1-3,bye bye you’re no longer needed,we have another audience new to cater to”.H5 Is fun but most people would say it would not even come close to how good halo 1-3 was in terms of gameplay,story and features,most people grew up playing those games and fell in love w them,unless you started w reach or h4 and did not play classic ones
>
> Yes; you didn’t get everything you wanted exactly the way you wanted it. You were mistreated. I was quite unhappy with Halo 5 at launch. Over the course of the updates; they 343 fixed most of the problems I have with the game (the story aside.) I don’t see the point in spewing bile at them because they didn’t release CE with online play and fancy new graphics. I remember playing CE in the dorms with my mates, but I’ve had that experience already. I don’t need to repeat it. I want to go forward and see what comes next. I want the next Halo experience. I have the memories from 7 previous games and look forward to the fact that there will be something brand new in a few years to expand on the story (hopefully better than H5 did) and offer me new game modes and brilliant community customs. I don’t want the same game released over and over; I want something to justify me saving to buy a game.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;16:
> > .Also do you think after call of duty halo 4,mcc disaster launch 1 year + and h5 still using armor abilities(just renaming them and making us power ranger spartans) and lacking social playlist at launch,some for months and also core features excluded completely or that arrived later,that that just gives 343 more positivity on how they have handled Halo?No its been forever marked in the communities eyes and memories,Bungie did makes mistakes,but the’re games were more sucessfull and that is facts.i hope 343 takes good care of halo with all this and comes close to halos 1-3 sucesses as possible
>
> And yet you aren’t the community are you? You’re one member of it. Much like the OP you seem to think that you personally speak for them. No one does. The vast majority of the people who love this universe aren’t on waypoint, reddit, or anything else. They play the game or read the books when the can. There isn’t a voice for the community itself. We aren’t going to agree, but you should realize that you don’t speak for everyone. I can only offer voice to my own opinions, you should do the same. You don’t speak for the community; no one does.

I never said i speak for the community which you wrongfully implied,halo 1-3 may feel like its the same game over and over but it is not depending on your perspective of halo.They innovated the EXISTING game,they added features people loved while keeping the mechanics the same and not alienate their CORE AUDIENCE,the movement,crouch jumping,classic zoom,no abilities.Halos place at XLB clearly tells us the state that halo is in,FACT.Its been Xbox Flagship game for years, and given where halo is at doesnt that tell you something? The way 343 have handled Halo so far has told the community very clearly how they have handed community feedback and the franshcise overall,.They’ve done good,they’ve done bad.A halo 3 anniversary was 343’s chance of at least giving classic halo players some love for their favorite game.

I would like if at least halo 6 removed sprint n spartan charge w ads for close range weapons only to slow the gameplay down like some members in the community,even pros players have expressed wanting gameplay to slow down a bit.halo 5 is too complicated with to many button presses,and required use of either a elite,scuf controller unless you dont want to claw.Also 343 made a traditional Halo game pre halo 4 and the people that they hired to test it loved it and 343 said screw their opinions and hired people who hated Halo and used their opinions instead according to this article,doesnt that seem weird and ironic thing to do? http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191234/making_halo_4_a_story_about_.php?page=3

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> 2533274871425050;18:
> I never said i speak for the community which you wrongfully implied,.

‘the classic community players have been pushed aside’
“No its been forever marked in the communities eyes and memories”
“not alienate their CORE AUDIENCE,”
“The way 343 have handled Halo so far has told the community very clearly how they have handed community feedback and the franshcise overall,”
There are a couple others; implied or not you seem to generalize your view to a large portion of the community.

> 2533274871425050;18:
> halo 1-3 may feel like its the same game over and over but it is not depending on your perspective of halo.They innovated the EXISTING game,they added features people loved while keeping the mechanics the same and not alienate their CORE AUDIENCE,
> .

Again that was what I said in the initial post you quoted (the one you didn’t read.). They don’t feel like they same thing. They changed…every time. They were three unique experiences (seven now.) I’ve long had to argue against this idea that the three games played the same way … they didn’t. You seem to indicate that’s what you want. The same game rehashed every few years and I’m just not that interested. It’s the same reason I haven’t bought a COD game in 7 years. I used to enjoy the campaign, but there wasn’t anything different after a while.

> 2533274871425050;18:
> the movement,crouch jumping,classic zoom,no abilities…

I quite like the movement in H5. You can still crouch jump. You either like something or you don’t.

> 2533274871425050;18:
> Halos place at XLB clearly tells us the state that halo is in,FACT…

You really haven’t read anything I’ve written have you? Halo’s place on the popular games list tells you nothing about <mark>why</mark> it’s there. You don’t just get to say it’s because of “X” without proper support of that position. It isn’t that simple. Yes…Halo isn’t as popular as it once was. A lot of games aren’t. You don’t get to proclaim the reason why without either ruling out the 10,000 other possibilites or supporting your arguement and you can’t do either. You can’t claim the thing you are trying to explain as the evidence for your explanation.

> 2533274871425050;18:
> Its been Xbox Flagship game for years, and given where halo is at doesnt that tell you something?

There is a cake on the table in the break room downstairs that read’s “Happy birthday, Richard.” Doesn’t that tell you that the magical cake fairy rode in on her purple unicorn and put it there?

> 2533274871425050;18:
> The way 343 have handled Halo so far has told the community very clearly how they have handed community feedback and the franshcise overall,.

Except the community is telling them a million contradictory things. There are as many opinions about Halo as there are people who play/read/watch Halo. Someone will always be unhappy. Again this goes into what I was pointing out above; you’re opinions aren’t the only ones out there.

> 2533274871425050;18:
> They’ve done good,they’ve done bad.

I agree on that and it will continue to be that way; the same as bungie before them and every other game studio.

> 2533274871425050;18:
> A halo 3 anniversary was 343’s chance of at least giving classic halo players some love for their favorite game…

I will be so glad when E3 has come and gone and that -Yoink- finally stops. Halo 3 is playable on the xbox one right now as part of the MCC. Halo 3 is playable on the 360 right now. I don’t have a clue why people assume a fresh coat of paint would somehow sell 10 billon copies and be massivly popularted when the bit of gloss they added didn’t do it so far. It just doesn’t follow. Halo 3 may be your favorite Halo, but it wasn’t everyone’s (I usually offer ODST as mine, despite the lack of multiplayer.)

> 2533274871425050;18:
> I would like if at least halo 6 removed sprint n spartan charge w ads for close range weapons only to slow the gameplay down like some members in the community,

Yes, some people want that. I wouldn’t be thrilled about it. One POV isn’t inherently better than the other. I still haven’t heard a decent anti-sprint arguement in the last 10 years. Though, this will not become a discussion of sprint there is a thread for that already.

> 2533274871425050;18:
> even pros players have expressed

Yeah, I don’t care in the slightest what pro players think. They aren’t authorites, the get one opinon the same as anyone else. I don’t play ‘competetive’ halo and have no interest in it. I play to relax at the end of the day or week. I play to laugh and while dodging warthogs thrown out of mancannons and outthinking that party of 4 I seem to get matched against. I play for fun; nothing else.

> 2533274871425050;18:
> wanting gameplay to slow down a bit.halo 5 is too complicated with to many button presses,and required use of either a elite,scuf controller unless you dont want to claw.

I don’t ‘claw’ and the game works just fine for me. I wouldn’t mind them reworking everything around a 5 shot BR, 6 shot magnum/dmr etc, but that’s just my opinon. I’d like similar changes to the autos (maybe a range reduction),

> 2533274871425050;18:
> Also 343 made a traditional Halo game pre halo 4 and the people that they hired to test it loved it and 343 said screw their opinions and hired people who hated Halo and used their opinions instead according to this article,doesnt that seem weird and ironic thing to do?

I can’t read that from here; so I can’t respond or check the sources.

20

> 2533274880633045;19:
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> >
>
>
>
> > 2533274871425050;18:
> > Also 343 made a traditional Halo game pre halo 4 and the people that they hired to test it loved it and 343 said screw their opinions and hired people who hated Halo and used their opinions instead according to this article,doesnt that seem weird and ironic thing to do?
>
> I can’t read that from here; so I can’t respond or check the sources.

From a 2013 Gamasutra article:

> One of the earlier ones that Holmes recalls was when the team completed a small piece of the Halo experience that he described as a “very traditional” Halo. User research showed that people thought it was a lot of fun, and it showed that the team was capable of making a Halo game that was true to what the series was about.
> 343 scrapped it, Holmes says, as it was too traditional.

What awakeningrager1 said isn’t exactly the truth. Here’s how I interpreted it: 343 had apparently hired people who hated Halo. They did that because knew they were talented, and they wanted that talent working on the Halo franchise. They then tried to make them worked together, which, after much trial and error, eventually resulted in what they considered a ‘traditional’ Halo experience. They scrapped that for being too traditional, which is what he’s trying to use as an argument or point or something. However, note that the article says “a small piece”. It wasn’t a game, it was one aspect of a prototypical game. Make of that what you will.

@OP: Is there really a need to talk about “true” fans? I thought most people knew the entire concept of “true” fans was BS, being a form of the “No true Scotsman” fallacy.