(They're out) Um.... When Are We Getting patch Notes?...😶

[WhoLikesChicken]

343 can hopefully shore up some near term content with stuff that was cut from the game during development. Tons of stiff hitters the cutting room floor during game development as we all know.

We better get at least 4 maps with season 2. Six months is a long time when there’s nothing new but cosmetics along the way

[Plastic_Hassle]

FYI:

Tomorrow’s #HaloInfinite Mid-Season Update, which includes numerous bug fixes and improvements, is scheduled for 10am PT. When it releases, the Update will require a download and full Patch Notes will be published at http://aka.ms/HaloInfiniteUpdate. @ HaloSupport

https://twitter.com/HaloSupport/status/1496646191345324033

[WhoLikesChicken]

Patch notes not hitting until the time of release? I didn’t know we were back in the late 2000’s…
That’s honestly really lame imo

[N0_REM0RS3]

@GusTank04

I personally think this progression is horrible as it makes you play modes you don’t want to and causes you to grind out challenges instead of playing the game to have fun and using teamwork

Wouldn’t matter how fast it is, that is bad

I agree, I don’t like the challenge system and requiring modes I don’t want to play - but I do appreciate that it takes less of those modes I don’t enjoy to progress, for now anyway.

@GusTank04

In other words, it is coming in S2, lol
That doesn’t really count as communication, he is literally just saying, " It will return"
We all knew it was gonna return, we wanted to know when and why it left in the first place

I don’t see how it doesn’t count as communication - communication is “the imparting or exchanging of information or news.” I do believe that stating “Hey, it will return” is imparting information and news. Agree 100% that I had hoped it was different news/information, but it is certainly within the definition of communication.

As for why it left, a little speculation on my part: one of the MP lead/design folks on twitter mentioned that Attrition was set up to be an experiment with the pacing of slayer. Given this, it sounds like it may not be feature complete - i.e. they want to use the Attrition event to validate their idea and make changes where necessary. Then when it comes back, it’s incorporated the learnings from the event and it’s a more solid game mode. Either that, or it’s intended to be part of a playlist with currently unfinished game modes.

@GusTank04

Live service games have a steady stream of content with major updates (seasons for Infinite)
We have not had a steady stream of new content

We’ve only had 2.5 months since full release (remember, Nov 15 to Dec 8 was a beta), and I don’t think it’s all that reasonable to expect a stream of new content in that timeframe - the game is launching, they’re fixing bugs, they’re adjusting plans based on feedback.

Now, I would also suggest, there has been new content - the new Tenrai and Cyber Showdown cosmetics and events have come out. It looks like there’s a SWAT event coming in March if the leaks are correct. Cosmetics are content - content being “the things that are held or included in something.” I think the new cosmetics fit that definition - they were not available in the base, vanilla release, and are being released in the events. Now, I agree that I wanted more content in terms of game modes and maps, but it is a steady stream of cosmetic content, and that would satisfy even your definition of a live service - a steady stream of new content. It is new, it is coming regularly (4th Tenrai event, the one Cyber Showdown, and more planned).

@GusTank04

That isn’t a statement on customization, that is a statement on progression

I think it is a statement on customization - people wanted more customization in their hands, they increased drop rate, customization system got an infusion of content.

@GusTank04

You also have to play matches to progress, does that mean adding a new playlist is a change to progression?

Depends on if they implemented XP incentives/bonuses for that playlist or not. If they did, yes, if not, no.

@GusTank04

We kind of do.
The fact that we haven’t received any new content since the Cyber Showdown event (and was taken away) pretty much proves they are going to drip-feed us content with seasonal updates

We have the return of Tenrai currently, which is a longer event pass, to allow people to catch up on it if they didn’t complete it before. I believe there is a “TacOps” cough SWAT cough event that is supposed to be upcoming, based on data mining/leaks. IMO, they probably have events planned out through May, we just haven’t seen anything on it because Staten’s slow getting his roadmap out.

@GusTank04

But like I said before, Ske7ch mentioned a future Slayer playlist update coming soon 2 months ago and we haven’t heard a peep on that since

100% agree, that is something they shouldn’t have mentioned and not followed up on.

@GusTank04

I would think so.
Even just saying," Hey, we’re working on this and we’ll have more info in the upcoming roadmap"
Just SOMETHING would be better than nothing

Now that BTB is working, and if this patch actually launches today (HaloSupport said on Twitter it would, last night, so I’m hopeful) then hopefully they can shift their comms from putting out fires to laying out next moves.

@GusTank04

Adding HCS game modes to customs isn’t really adding content, hardly anyone who plays customs is going to play the HCS gamemodes

It is content - maybe not highly utilized content - but it is content. With content being “the things that are held or included in something.”, this solidly fits into that category - is included in the game, it is content. Now, would I have asked them to prioritize other content? Yes. But that doesn’t mean this isn’t content just because it’s not the content I wanted.

@GusTank04

How does it fit into the scheme of things? Other than prove my point again that they aren’t doing a live service, they are sandbagging seasonal updates

Its role in the scheme of things will be seen when it’s readded. But, for a little speculation on my part: one of the MP lead/design folks on twitter mentioned that Attrition was set up to be an experiment with the pacing of slayer. Given this, it sounds like it may not be feature complete - i.e. they want to use the Attrition event to validate their idea and make changes where necessary. Then when it comes back, it’s incorporated the learnings from the event and it’s a more solid game mode. Either that, or it’s intended to be part of a playlist with currently unfinished game modes.

Again, I think the idea that they’re sandbagging is a little ridiculous. They’re not out to get us - they might be fumbling and disappointing us, totally- but they’re not trying to screw players.

@GusTank04

Funny, you could only name 2 things and 1 involved the store, which is where they have spent the majority of their time.
It is clear where their priorities lie.

And BtB was a simple fix, at least it should’ve been, that doesn’t count as major work on the game

Again, we’re discussing that they touched things, not that they touched things we think are higher priority than what they did touch. I agree, I would have liked to have seen focus beyond the store and customization. Those things were horribly out of whack, so I understand why they got the attention they did, but I still would have liked to have seen other things touched. But just because they touched on things I consider less important doesn’t mean they didn’t touch things, is my point.

As for BTB, I’m not sure if you’ve ever troubleshot a technical issue before - it can be legitimately hard to identify causes sometimes. It’s not always your (343’s) product either - we don’t know if it was the game client, the server app, the user’s OS, or the OS the server is on. Look, I’m upset as well that it took so long to get it fixed, but I don’t see how that can reasonably be considered not major work - the game mode was flat out broken. It took adding additional debugging to get to the bottom of things, which is not something done lightly. Usually debugging is set in an application at a sufficient level to troubleshoot the vast majority of problems - games included. Stuff like this is what I do for a living - debugging is not added to an application unless something really weird, and really hard to find is happening.

@GusTank04

They have monthly updates but they also have lots of smaller things going on inbetween updates

So let’s timeline Infinite:

MP beta launches - Nov 15
Small patch - Nov 19
Tenrai week 1 launches - Nov 23-Nov 30
Full release - Dec 8 - MP
BTB breaks - Mid-Dec
Playlist update - Dec 14
Winter Contingency event - Dec 21-Jan 4
Tenrai week 2 - Jan 4-Jan 11
Cyber Showdown - Jan 18 - Feb 1 - Attrition added
BTB failed patch - Jan 19
Tenrai week 3 - Feb 1 - Feb 8
BTB finally fixed - Feb 3
Ranked matchmaking fix- Feb 16
Tenrai week 4 - Feb 22 - Mar 1

IMO, they’ve done a good amount of smaller things. The upcoming patch is the first larger technical step - they still have their first large content step to get to - or at least to tell us about when it falls beyond a “We’re working on it”. Again, I assume this is part of Staten’s delayed roadmap.

@GusTank04

Maybe because any other f2p live service game has content that fast after launch.
The release date was their decision, they should’ve prepared content beforehand to deal with the expectations, they didn’t

Pretty sure Apex and Fortnite languished after launch for a period of time without a ton of content, and their current content flow was only realized after they had stabilized post-launch.

How do we know they didn’t though? I mean, in the timeline from above, they have 6 weeks of Tenrai content, Winter Contingency, and Cyber Showdown already.

@GusTank04

If the engine code makes it that hard to solve simple issues than the engine will be the death of this game

I’m willing to bet - given that my livelihood is based on troubleshooting similar issues - that the BTB issue was not simple. The engine could be a mess, but I’m more leaning towards the issue was a pain in the -Yoink!- to track down because it was one of those issues that happens in the interface between OS networking (where the OS doesn’t log anything worthwhile, regardless of Windows/Linux) and application (343’s server) networking. Like I say, I work in tech, I troubleshoot similar things for a tech vendor - that mess is a nightmare sometimes, even when it’s competently coded (and I’m willing to bet 343’s servers are at least decently coded).

@GusTank04

Other game’s mid-season updates tend to add content of some sort

And other games aren’t 2.5 months off of launch, and just getting over technical issues.

@GusTank04

My expectations were set on the industry standards

I’m in IT - we have industry standards, set by the IETF (Internet Engineering Task Force) and IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers). The term “industry standards” means something - they are standards set by industrial body, detailing specifications that must be met to be considered meeting standards. There is no such body for gaming. Your expectations are on you.

@GusTank04

You are using a circle argument, I have already said that, yes, they have added content (very little) but nothing for quite some time.
That is not acceptable for a so called “live service” game

I’d actually like to revise my statement - they’ve added more content than I gave them credit for - I forgot how many events with cosmetic content they’ve added. I think it’s quite acceptable for this point in its lifespan. Though I am hoping for more than cosmetic content before S2.

@GusTank04

What “large issues”?
I have played them, they all seem ready to go other than Elimination

Customs are straight up broken: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/t/proof-custom-games-is-broken/499593, https://steamcommunity.com/app/1240440/discussions/0/3183485052600258108/

They have a lot of work to do there

@GusTank04

They’ve lied before, I don’t take anything they say anymore seriously

Fair enough, ignore communications if you want

@GusTank04

Events are not hard to do, Splitgate does it relatively easily with a fraction of the employee count

Unless you’re secretly a game dev, I’m not sure either one of us actually know what kind of work it takes to get events set up in a game.

@WhoLikesChicken

Patch notes not hitting until the time of release? I didn’t know we were back in the late 2000’s…
That’s honestly really lame imo

Yeah, I would have preferred them ahead of time. Though, I will say, my company does similar things - we release the release notes of our service updates when the service update goes live, just so that way we’re honest about what’s in it in case anything has to be dropped last minute. So, while I prefer them ahead of time, I get why they’re not done ahead of time often.

[WhoLikesChicken]

@N0_REM0RS3

@WhoLikesChicken

Patch notes not hitting until the time of release? I didn’t know we were back in the late 2000’s…

That’s honestly really lame imo

Yeah, I would have preferred them ahead of time. Though, I will say, my company does similar things - we release the release notes of our service updates when the service update goes live, just so that way we’re honest about what’s in it in case anything has to be dropped last minute. So, while I prefer them ahead of time, I get why they’re not done ahead of time often.

Yea, my team only publishes change notes when we release our changes too. But we’re not a gaming product. Hasn’t it become sorry if industry standard for large games to publish their detailed patch notes 1-2 says in advance?

The biggest thing I don’t get though, is what their logic could be to hold the notes back? They already submitted the build for certification days ago, so it’s not like they don’t know what they’re trying to put out…

[N0_REM0RS3]

Only thing I can think of is if a particular change doesn’t pass cert, they’ll just drop that change and push everything else out. And by not putting the notes out first, they don’t have to come back and say “Just kidding, here’s the revised notes”. But, that’s just speculation. Solid chance it’s just “This is how we’ve always done release notes” instead.

[TheHellsLord]

Update is downloading now (1 GB in size). Still no patch notes though (well 1 minute ago when I checked before writing this post).

[GusTank04]

No patch notes?
I have the update, so where are the notes?

[WhoLikesChicken]

Hopefully we’re just waiting for a release manager to push some buttons to publish them. Crossing my fingers we get them soon.

Only 1GB update though?.. sigh

[N0_REM0RS3]

They should show up here whenever they get around to it… https://support.halowaypoint.com/hc/en-us/articles/4412306622356

[N0_REM0RS3]

Scratch that, they created a new page: https://support.halowaypoint.com/hc/en-us/articles/4478000980116-Halo-Infinite-Season-1-Mid-Season-Update

[WhoLikesChicken]

Thanks, I’m going to update my OP

[N0_REM0RS3]

Pretty light on bug fixes even, I had hoped for some corrections to PC performance. Oh well, glad they got the telemetry in there for figuring out the hit reg/desync stuff. Once they patch that it’ll feel a lot better in MP.

[K0NSPIRACY]

Very underwhelming as expected. I wonder what we’ll find has been broken in the process of this update.

[GusTank04]

Woooooow.
What an update!

They said people would get the nail polish in the next “content” update.

There is literally no new content here, so if this is what they consider a “content” update (live service) than we’re in trouble

[flowterspace]

At least we can now buy the Optic Gaming skin in the store. What a relief. Now I can finally sleep well at night.

Are the MCC and Halo 5 servers back online?

[TheHellsLord]

From the MP perspective the following should be the one’s with the most impact:

• Anti-Cheat improvements (we’ll see what those amount to)
• Desync fix in connection with destroyed vehicles
• Improved Audio Mixing (frequent complaint that it was impossible to hear approaching enemies)

Some other things are at least nice:

• Wait time estimates
• Radar range in BTB
• Quick Resume on Series Consoles (I’ll have to wait and see how well that works)

But yeah, there still is much more work to do.

[N0_REM0RS3]

IMO, the desync telemetry for hit reg is going to be important too. Sets up for a fix down the line once they get and analyze the new logging.

[TheHellsLord]

I agree that it will be important down the line that they added it. I was concentrating on the things that are tangible now. Everything that will get us closer to a fix to the hit reg issues is highly welcome though.

[Invoked_by_Red]

I’m amazed by how terrible they are with releasing updates.

Thanks, I guess… I’ll be honest Halo is losing me. I’m struggling to stay motivated with this. Especially how this live service game has had no content drop after about 3 months of existing.

In case you didn’t know, Call of Duty Vanguard came out in November 2021 (I think) and it’s on Season 2 already. Say what you want about CoD, but this is tragic.