There's power ... Then there's POWER !

Community Halo Universe
1

FIRSTLY!!
Yes , this is a colosal wall of text , its not however the great wall of china … You dont need a rope and physicality , just a mind , failing to possess that … Stop reading now !

http://www.gregbear.com/blog/display.cfm?id=6513

A link to Greg Bears forum where he’s been heckled by fans to reveal a little insight into the forthcoming novel - Halo Silentium . The final of the three ’ Forrunner saga ’ novels .

Some asked a similar question on there to what I’m been pondering since reading the first novels - How are the flood and the primordial closely related ? ( as revealed by the Primordial In Primordium -
“We are the Flood. There is no difference. Until all space and time is rolled up and life is crushed in the folds… no end to war, grief, or pain. In a hundred and one thousand centuries… unity again, and wisdom. Until then-sweetness.”

Further along the thread when Greg is pried for greater insight he only reveals " there’s power , then there’s power .

So … My theory , and ONLY a theory with a touch of weight from how I’ve interpreted the novels -

Could it indeed be that the flood is but the instrumental machine / puppet thats used by few Precursors who fled the galaxy to still have observation ( when the spores first arrived ) and eventually , and when they see fit , influence by the assimilative form of the flood infestation itself ??

It’s cryptic and ambiguous what the Primordial reveals yes , but a grasping of this perhaps truth by the didact himself in silentium whilst trying to defeat his current flood epidemic would actually lead him to go against his own shield world strategy plans , defy his somewhat devoutly religious upholding of the mantle itself and fire the Halo array to eradicate all sentient life in the galaxy .

Wouldn’t the didact , disgusted by himself for defying the mantle , and traumatised by his wife’s seeming demise , put himself back into exile inside his cryptum , as he was In the first novel . ( and he’s seen in the Halo 4 trailer inside of , and He only ever enters the Cryptum for a deep reason ) . Whilst he’s wife’s plan is put to fruition and the galaxy is reseeded from the specimens on the Arks .

Millennia later … The humans again rise as predicted and the John / cortana unfolded through the first 3 Halo games and the Flood / precursors resurface with the chance to now test humanity . Only this time , Cortana and John get to execute the Librarians plans that she didn’t herself … Fire ’ the solution ’ the retuned halo array that kills only flood infected life forms ??

I now think maybe the forerunner saga and games tie up like this - The time Cortana spent captive him the gravemind … What did she discover ??
Did she know where to find the didact because of this ??
And does she now believe the universe is in grave danger as the Precursor transentient Demi gods themselves are probably rightly enraged that they can’t even influence or govern this universe any more and are planning a triumphant and devastating return and wish to alert the didact ?? ( and I know the Promethean AI attack humans in the trailer , but they are but that AI - Not actually Forrunner . Prone to corruption or rampancy , or even just doing there designated task …guarding Requiem and making sure no one interferes with the Difact , who himself would take some time to fully become aware of what’s happening this time , as he did in Crytum )

This is all but a theory from a life long halo fan who lives , eats breathes and * yoinks * halo .

I realise it is almost complete conjecture and patch work .And I’m aware most of it is likely to be miles away from the actual cannon story that will be revealed in due course .

If you’ve made it this far I thank you . Now please feel free to dismantle , disprove , and stultify it to your hearts content .

I cant wait for Halo 4 and I’d happy fast forward the entire summer for it and Silentium !!

Thank you :wink:

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> Did she know where to find the didact because of this ??

In this particular case I would say no because the final Halo 3 Terminal on Legendary indicates that Mendicant Bias sent them to Requiem.

“And so here at the end of my life, I do once again betray a former master. The path ahead is fraught with peril. But I will do all I can to keep it stable - keep you safe. I’m not so foolish to think this will absolve me of my sins. One life hardly balances billions.
But I would have my masters know that I have changed.
And you shall be my example.”

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^^ Hmmm … So perhaps mendicant bias had an influence ?? Do we even know if he still exists ??

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> ^^ Hmmm … So perhaps mendicant bias had an influence ?? Do we even know if he still exists ??

Unknown. He says “At the end of my life” but we don’t know for sure. We know Mendicant Bias was split into multiple fragments so as long as one of them may still exist, he may still exist.

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> > ^^ Hmmm … So perhaps mendicant bias had an influence ?? Do we even know if he still exists ??
>
> Unknown. He says “At the end of my life” but we don’t know for sure. We know Mendicant Bias was split into multiple fragments so as long as one of them may still exist, he may still exist.

That’s highly plausible , and something that exited me .

An ancient AI’s redemption and part in assisting the reclaimers … Certainly adds even more depth to an already ocean deep story !

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“Mendicant was able to postpone its inevitable annihilation for [106:S] with its attempt to flee. But the last of its core vessels hangs before me now; crippled and defeated but still sensate. I have spared it; carved out what is left of its [personality construct array] and delivered it to [Installation Zero] for study. &nbsp I doubt it would have extended the same courtesy to me.”

Medicant bias is dead though from the ark’s destruction dude, all his shards / remanants where brought back to the ARK for study by Offensive Bias for study during his war with the rampant AI with the flood wars…

He may have sent chief & cortana to Rquiem yes but he won’t be around to guide the chief, guess thats the Didacts job now!

Also the Didact going into his Cryptum due to his beleif that he killed his wife, this is possible as in the terminals he does plead with her to come back to the “Maginot Line” where he can protect her, yet she chooses to stay on Earth and carry on her plans…

Firing of the halo array from the Ark array would mean eveery world including earth was hit by the pulse… yet being the last beleived forerunner alive, would make you wanna go into a cryptum…

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> “Mendicant was able to postpone its inevitable annihilation for [106:S] with its attempt to flee. But the last of its core vessels hangs before me now; crippled and defeated but still sensate. I have spared it; carved out what is left of its [personality construct array] and delivered it to [Installation Zero] for study. &nbsp I doubt it would have extended the same courtesy to me.”
>
>
>
> Medicant bias is dead though from the ark’s destruction dude, all his shards / remanants where brought back to the ARK for study by Offensive Bias for study during his war with the rampant AI with the flood wars…
>
> He may have sent chief & cortana to Rquiem yes but he won’t be around to guide the chief, guess thats the Didacts job now!
>
> Also the Didact going into his Cryptum due to his beleif that he killed his wife, this is possible as in the terminals he does plead with her to come back to the “Maginot Line” where he can protect her, yet she chooses to stay on Earth and carry on her plans…
>
> Firing of the halo array from the Ark array would mean eveery world including earth was hit by the pulse… yet being the last beleived forerunner alive, would make you wanna go into a cryptum…

Very interesting indeed Born .
Reading that a few times still left me with this question … How could Mendicant bias ’ guide ’ John and Cortana at all if all fragments where destroyed during the first firing of the Halo array ? Remember Johns and Cortanas is set millions of years after the Forunners saga .

Maybe it’s to my error , but I’d always believed … It’s was mendicant / not Offensive that was speaking directly to the chief / reclaimer in the final Terminal ( Halo ) in 3 - something like " and now I assist you reclaimer , as so hopefully go a little to righten my wrongs " … Words to that affect … Then - " there is more still , but you are not worthy … Yet " .
Perhaps I’ve erred , I don’t know .

Think we’re going a little off topic from what I was asking though … Do you see the theory as a whole as plausible and possible in halo 4 . And your views on the Precursor / flood close relationship my good sir ??

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Nooooo, when the ARK was destroyed by chief and cortana, the remaining shards of Medicant Bias was lost, thats what i meant… destruction of the ark means no more Medicant Bias, unless of course he has a stray shard of himself out there somewhere else??

Clue being t the end of Primordium when the ONI vessel was speaking with a remaining shard of Spark, and once activated it took the ship to “her”… despite being blown to pieces by chief in HALO in 3…

It boggles the mind!!

As for the precursors, we know that the last precoursor / the timeless one was a pre-dating Gravemind, whose nature in itself is to gather intelligence on behalf of its creators, the ACTUAL precursors, yet at the same time as gathering intelligence from consuming life, it is designed to sow discontent amongst technologically adept races:

Example being the timeless one on Charum Hakkor, speaking with the Lord Admiral of the human fleets, telling them that humanity has as much right at upholding the mantle as the forerunners did… (basically chinesse rumours that escalates war etc etc).

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> Very interesting indeed Born .
> Reading that a few times still left me with this question … How could Mendicant bias ’ guide ’ John and Cortana at all if all fragments where destroyed during the first firing of the Halo array ? <mark>Remember Johns and Cortanas is set millions of years after the Forunners saga</mark> .
>
> Maybe it’s to my error , but I’d always believed … It’s was mendicant / not Offensive that was speaking directly to the chief / reclaimer in the final Terminal ( Halo ) in 3 - something like " and now I assist you reclaimer , as so hopefully go a little to righten my wrongs " … Words to that affect … Then - " there is more still , but you are not worthy … Yet " .
> Perhaps I’ve erred , I don’t know .
>
> Think we’re going a little off topic from what I was asking though … Do you see the theory as a whole as plausible and possible in halo 4 . And your views on the Precursor / flood close relationship my good sir ??

I wanted to point out first, this is the second time you said it and it is wrong. You said millenia, and then millions of years. Halo:CE took place 100,000 years after the firing of the Array by the Didact. not millions, just a hundred thousand.

It is Mendicant speaking to the Chief in the Terminals. But he is presumed dead from the destruction of the Ark. Sure 343i could ressurect him somehow, a shard transfered to the FuD. Or he transfered himself or a fragment of himself to the ship before it goes through the portal. But that seems redundant and lazy honestly.

Heres a thought though. If we assume that the Didact was at the Ark to fire the array, then OB would have brought MB back there to study it. The Didact after firing the Array, and after watching over/assisting with disecting MB, takes OB and a shard of MB with him to Requiem. So we may run into MB again. However would it be the same? This MB couldn’t possibly have known of what happened on the Ark, so even if it were possible, it wouldn’t help anyone.

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> Clue being t the end of Primordium when the ONI vessel was speaking with a remaining shard of Spark, and once activated it took the ship to “her”… despite being blown to pieces by chief in HALO in 3…
>
> It boggles the mind!!
>
>
> Example being the timeless one on Charum Hakkor, speaking with the Lord Admiral of the human fleets, telling them that humanity has as much right at upholding the mantle as the forerunners did… (basically chinesse rumours that escalates war etc etc).

  1. 343GS from the game is actually a fragment of the Chakas monitor from the book. The GS monitor is dead, blown apart like you said. The ONI staff just gave the Monitor that designation as a placeholder.

  2. There is no way you know what the Primordial told the Lord of Admirals. I know for a fact that whole conversation was never told, and I’ll look again, but I am almost positive what you wrote was never said.

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> > Very interesting indeed Born .
> > Reading that a few times still left me with this question … How could Mendicant bias ’ guide ’ John and Cortana at all if all fragments where destroyed during the first firing of the Halo array ? <mark>Remember Johns and Cortanas is set millions of years after the Forunners saga</mark> .
> >
> > Maybe it’s to my error , but I’d always believed … It’s was mendicant / not Offensive that was speaking directly to the chief / reclaimer in the final Terminal ( Halo ) in 3 - something like " and now I assist you reclaimer , as so hopefully go a little to righten my wrongs " … Words to that affect … Then - " there is more still , but you are not worthy … Yet " .
> > Perhaps I’ve erred , I don’t know .
> >
> > Think we’re going a little off topic from what I was asking though … Do you see the theory as a whole as plausible and possible in halo 4 . And your views on the Precursor / flood close relationship my good sir ??
>
> I wanted to point out first, this is the second time you said it and it is wrong. You said millenia, and then millions of years. Halo:CE took place 100,000 years after the firing of the Array by the Didact. not millions, just a hundred thousand.
>
> It is Mendicant speaking to the Chief in the Terminals. But he is presumed dead from the destruction of the Ark. Sure 343i could ressurect him somehow, a shard transfered to the FuD. Or he transfered himself or a fragment of himself to the ship before it goes through the portal. But that seems redundant and lazy honestly.
>
> Heres a thought though. If we assume that the Didact was at the Ark to fire the array, then OB would have brought MB back there to study it. The Didact after firing the Array, and after watching over/assisting with disecting MB, takes OB and a shard of MB with him to Requiem. So we may run into MB again. However would it be the same? This MB couldn’t possibly have known of what happened on the Ark, so even if it were possible, it wouldn’t help anyone.

And now we both stand corrected ! Lol

Sorry about the millions and millennia point .

I’m currently at work and multitasking … I knew what I meant just didn’t type it correctly .

And soo … Onto your thoughts on the Precursor / flood connection Sir ?

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> And now we both stand corrected ! Lol
>
> Sorry about the millions and millennia point .
>
> I’m currently at work and multitasking … I knew what I meant just didn’t type it correctly .
>
> And soo … Onto your thoughts on the Precursor / flood connection Sir ?

If that came off as rude forgive me, I was typing quick and didn’t add a lot of tactful wording to make it seem less “rude”

Well I mean going through what you wrote, it seems there are little things in there that were never really revealed, or it was said differently in the story (games and books)

like the Halos being ‘retuned’ to just kill Flood infections. I feel like this is something they (Forerunners) were trying to do but simply ran out of time. Some of the testing and wordage afterwards points to them trying to tune the Halos to kill just the Flood. But then Faber lost his mind. Because when Cortana gets into the control panel of the Halo, she tells the chief the Halos kill the Flood’s food, any sentient lifeform. So the Halos were still tuned to kill everything.

But as far as a Precursor/Flood connection…I have a hard time believing a lot of what the Primordial says. Some things seem legit, and others just seem like loads of lies. So it makes it difficult to figure out what is legit and what isn’t. During the conversations in Primordium between Yprin and Forthencho, it seems the Primordial told them both something different. And when the Didact talked to it, it seemed to say things that would force the Didacts hand. Saying that the Forerunners weren’t supposed to take the Mantle, and that the flood and precursors are the same. Basically making it to where the Didact had no choice, and the Primordial was kind of leading the events the way they went. So for right now I’m fine with there being a “race” of Precursors that are flood ‘infected’ that control the Flood, or use the flood to gain more info. But I hold that thought in loose regard, because I don’t want to be trapped by my personal feelings on the subject when the true connection is finally revealed.

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I might have read it wrong, probably likely, but if im at fault, and you had to assume what the timeless one spoke with the lord admirals about, what would you think he said?

Begs to wonder what you would say to someone to wanna make them justify the means to war with a race as powerful as the forerunners were.

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Silentium seriously needs to hurry up haha!

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> I might have read it wrong, probably likely, but if im at fault, and you had to assume what the timeless one spoke with the lord admirals about, what would you think he said?
>
> Begs to wonder what you would say to someone to wanna make them justify the means to war with a race as powerful as the forerunners were.

IIRC it is implied that the Primordial told Forthencho of a means to defeat the flood, the supposed “cure”. But then Yprin says that the Primordial said no such thing to her. So the Primordial tells people what they want to hear apparently.

I can make a guess at why the events happen, but remember it’s just my thoughts, most of this was ever said in the Lore.

When the Flood came along, they started going after the Humans, but that wasn’t out of Malice, it was simply a means to an end. Or possibly even their test. The humans talk to the Primordial, Forthencho is told of the cure, Yprin is told something else (it was never said). The Humans develope their cure and purposely give up their planets to the Flood, to let their cure spread.

After this is finished, the Humans have many many displaced people, that they need to have homes for. In a desperate attempt to get planets for these people. Forthencho and his fleets encroach on Forerunner planets, and start attacking their populations. The Didact is alerted to this, and boomn Human/Forerunner war.

Now what you have to wonder with all of that, is did the Primordial tell Forthencho that he would have to get his people off the planets, and move them the other way. Possibly, I believe ultimately the goal was to get the Forerunners over by the Humans. Once the Forerunners were around, the flood no longer attacked humans. Even on the ring, the Forerunners with Riser got infected and Riser was fine. so thats what I feel like the gaol was.

*And a BTW type thing. Back then the Humans were just as Powerful as the Forerunners. And the Humans had actual alliances, not slave races like the Forerunners.

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> *And a BTW type thing. Back then the Humans were just as Powerful as the Forerunners. And the Humans had actual alliances, not slave races like the Forerunners.

Slave races like the forerunners… first ive ever heard of that, evidence?

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> > *And a BTW type thing. Back then the Humans were just as Powerful as the Forerunners. And the Humans had actual alliances, not slave races like the Forerunners.
>
> Slave races like the forerunners… first ive ever heard of that, evidence?

well for starters the JanJur Qom isn’t the first world they have put in quarantine (cryptum) and in primordium forthencho recalls how the forerunners warned their subservient races to stay away from worlds the humans had nuked.

We don’t know which didact did what. But a Didact activated the rings because medicant bias destroyed his wife’s rescue party and was going to attack the forerunner core worlds.

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subservient sounds better lol

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> > And now we both stand corrected ! Lol
> >
> > Sorry about the millions and millennia point .
> >
> > I’m currently at work and multitasking … I knew what I meant just didn’t type it correctly .
> >
> > And soo … Onto your thoughts on the Precursor / flood connection Sir ?
>
> If that came off as rude forgive me, I was typing quick and didn’t add a lot of tactful wording to make it seem less “rude”
>
> Well I mean going through what you wrote, it seems there are little things in there that were never really revealed, or it was said differently in the story (games and books)
>
> like the Halos being ‘retuned’ to just kill Flood infections. I feel like this is something they (Forerunners) were trying to do but simply ran out of time. Some of the testing and wordage afterwards points to them trying to tune the Halos to kill just the Flood. But then Faber lost his mind. Because when Cortana gets into the control panel of the Halo, she tells the chief the Halos kill the Flood’s food, any sentient lifeform. So the Halos were still tuned to kill everything.
>
> But as far as a Precursor/Flood connection…I have a hard time believing a lot of what the Primordial says. Some things seem legit, and others just seem like loads of lies. So it makes it difficult to figure out what is legit and what isn’t. During the conversations in Primordium between Yprin and Forthencho, it seems the Primordial told them both something different. And when the Didact talked to it, it seemed to say things that would force the Didacts hand. Saying that the Forerunners weren’t supposed to take the Mantle, and that the flood and precursors are the same. Basically making it to where the Didact had no choice, and the Primordial was kind of leading the events the way they went. So for right now I’m fine with there being a “race” of Precursors that are flood ‘infected’ that control the Flood, or use the flood to gain more info. But I hold that thought in loose regard, becauseI wanna reply on waypoint but ima have to wait as works got busier and I havent got time now to source the net for research needed to say that I think that the " Spark , it doesn’t ever say that it is , or isn’t ( I think it is ) chakas . It also becomes aware of the current events of the Array refiring and the Arks destruction though the ships intel , yet still want to go to " her ". Wish I had Primordium in front of me now !
>
> The precursor / flood statement … Yes !!! More or less what I’m saying except your saying hes possibly an ambassador , where I’m saying it the precursors themselves who ARE him … Just using the floods genetics and ability to make any like it’s and under controll of it / precursors !! They were Teir 0 tech remember . A kind of biological telepathical controlled machine to impose there will ?!
>
> Must say … You’ve proved very insightful and validated this time and actually have made some good input and actually read things Arbi . Impressive !
>
> Yes !!! 3 is the practice run for 4 … Or do what I’m current
>
> Fascinating personal insight that I myself share !
>
> And yes , although the Primordals words are very ambiguous , he does kind of stick to exactly what he says … Although yes , he says different things to different races -
> I.E to the humans , specifically Forthenco how the humans will inherit the mantle after being tested … Then once the humans start sacrificing themselves and lead the flood to the forrunners … The flood stops infecting humans ( your Riser example and insteads concentrates on Forunners instead -
> Who the Primorial has said to the Didact that - the Forunners didn’t actually deserve the mantle and that the flood and Precursors are the same ( rising up again after being slain and disbanded by the forrunners as said in Crytum - " … I am the last of the those Your kind rose up against and ruthlessly destroyed … I am the last precursor and our answer is at hand " … This now weighted by the floods hell bent determination to annhilate the Forunners ??
> So although cryptic and double sided… Does the primordial ever actually outright lie ??
>
> Fully support , and whole heartedly agree with what you said about it all being personal feelings you don’t want to get tied into . All I’ve said is just that and pure speculation as I’m not best friends with Greg Bear and couldnt get him a little to tipsy as to reveal major plot details so to quench of thirst for knowledge of this enigma ! Lol .
>
> Additionally don’t you feel that , back drop story wise , halo 4 is going to have to be very down scaled and simplified to enable newcomers and casuals to grasp it ? ( fully anticipate a cutscene of at least 15 minutes with possibly the didact and Cortana discussing it ) .
>
> And additionally , I think and agree that now only Silentium itself will answer all of our many questions and curiosities …
>
> Roll on Jan 2013 !

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Like the cutscene in halo 3 before you enter the ark… where all three factions (UNSC, covenant, and forerunner “spark”) discuss whats happenned, where you gotta go, and why…

maybe this time however it’ll be a lil more kick -Yoink- haha!!

Also does anyone feel that when you watch the “Halo Legends” origins 1 video, that the last forerunner that leaves his combat skin in a vault before vanishing, is the actual Didact and part of halo 4 might be the fact that you either use a combat skin?

Weird kinda conjecture i know but watched it a minute ago and thought heck i’ll ask what others think, especially you nickmeister82, you seem to have a valid opinion on speculating the extraordinary :slight_smile: