…but they aren’t a place to stay. Take Reach as an example. Anniversary Playlists shows us a couple of things:
The original experience cannot be recreated in all of its glory. Reach Anniversary doesn’t feel close enough to CE, even with the pistol. The game has different mechanics, and it shows. Not to mention the experience of playing a certain game (CE) can only really be felt again by playing said game. No amount of rule changes will make Reach feel exactly like CE.
These playlists do not attract a big crowd. Even though a lot of people disliked Reach, these playlists tend to be rather uninhabited. Reason being, I think a lot of the people dissatisfied with Vanilla either up and left or went back to Halo 3. Halo 3 Ranked Team Slayer usually maintains a higher population than Reach Super Slayer or MLG. Sometimes both combined. Lone Wolves rivals Rumble Pit, and so on. Reach’s Classic shows that these playlists won’t get a crowd. Telling people to go here if they don’t like the change is rather unhelpful, as the experience feels off, and the population could be found in higher numbers in the original game (assuming Halo 4 classic is closer to Halo 3).
The weapon sandbox is drastically different. Bloom on the God Pistol? 32 bullet AR? That changes things. I’m not calling it outright bad, or wrong, but it’s gonna affect how the game works. A classic playlist with a 5sk BR is gonna feel off, but changing it to a 4sk without modifying the entire sandbox to match would be worse. Making adjustments to all those weapons to match the original isn’t worth the time, since we established that classic generally maintains a far smaller population, and not changing the weapons intensifies the feelings addressed in my first point.
Classic playlists just don’t work well. Classic playlists won’t satisfy (most of) those who aren’t satisfied with Halo 4.
But then the “go play Halo 3” argument is silly too, because that population will gradually decline from the already small (but still above some of Reach’s playlists) numbers to even smaller, until it gets taken offline. And I don’t think “go play Reach” is much of an argument to those not happy with Halo 4.
What I would recommend instead is something reminiscent, but not attempting to mimic previous games. Something more like a barebones mode, stripping off the fluff and playing with the actual key mechanics that the previous games emphasized more without a lot of extra stuff on top. No loadouts, no AAs (or sprint) - with the other settings not meaning to mimic previous titles, but instead give off a similar feel, accounting for the differences in gameplay. Like ZBNS Reach, but more refined.
I get the feeling a ‘Barebones’ playlist that doesn’t change everything would attract more attention than a ‘Classic’ playlist that would. That’s why MLG can’t draw in many new players: to make the game competitive enough for them, they need to change so many elements of the game.
Trying to mimic previous titles had a less-than-satisfactory effect. I certainly like the idea of classic playlists, but there needs to be a compromise accounting for the new tweaks to mechanics. Otherwise, I don’t see what would stop them from going down to the Anniversary numbers after a few months.
They actually can work well if maps are good and the playlist is there from day one. The problem with Reach’s is that it came MONTHS after release and still had some of the things that made Reach bad, like bloom for example. If the dedication is there, a true classic experience can be had. I hope it is good because it adds variety to the game.
On that note, it’s funny how some of the people who support the variety being added in the form of a class-based system don’t support these playlists being added when they also add variety. Double standards.
The funny thing is after Halo 3 was out for a while alot of people hated it and wanted to go back to Halo 2 same thing happened with Reach next thing you know 3 was this amazing game. The same thing will probly happen with 4, 5, and 6. We have a community that just can’t make up its mind whether or not a game sucks.
Of course its impossible to completely replicate that classic feel.
But it shouldn’t be that bad, as PhArmAssists said the problem isn’t with the weapons or neccesarily the maps… its the mechanics and how it feels. The Loadouts and AAs, mainly.
Take those out, and its already pretty classic. Depends on what you mean by classic, this will be more Halo 3 classic. The shielding system and little to no fall damage make it a good classic experience.
But, in my opinion, they shouldn’t make the classic playlist for those that hate the game. Don’t completely downgrade everything in it. The Classic Playlist should be more to help ease skepitcal players over. Go into classic to get used to things like movement and controls, then venture into the other Halo 4 playlists at your pace. Play around with your loadouts.
The problem with classic in halo reach is that they actually tried making the game feel like halo 1. of course the default mechanics were too far from it to ever be like halo 1.
If I am correct, halo 4 classic will still have all the same physics, jump height, damage, shields, etc. that default has, except it will remove AAs, specializations, armor mods and loadouts. This way, your are only playing the game simplified, rather than attempting to play a whole different game. If its like this, then it should work just fine, and May even be just as fun as default. In fact, I can see this simplified playlist(s) being almost as played as team slayer or MLG.
EDIT: I now see your suggestion about a “barebones” gametype. This is actually how most people think of when they say classic. As vlong as everyone is equal, its pretty much classic, change anything else and it could be broken, but just this simplification will make it worth playing.
Plus, barebones isn’t a very attracting name. Halo gametypes are known for unique names, like slayer, Oddball, infection, assault, etc. other games usuall go for the “team deathmatch”-esque level of naming. Thats why it would be called classic, rather than barebones. Barebones sounds gritty and competitive, while classic sounds eccentric and familiar.
> Of course its impossible to completely replicate that classic feel.
>
> But it shouldn’t be that bad, as PhArmAssists said the problem isn’t with the weapons or neccesarily the maps… its the mechanics and how it feels. The Loadouts and AAs, mainly.
>
>
> Take those out, and its already pretty classic. Depends on what you mean by classic, this will be more Halo 3 classic. The shielding system and little to no fall damage make it a good classic experience.
>
>
>
> But, in my opinion, they shouldn’t make the classic playlist for those that hate the game. Don’t completely downgrade everything in it. The Classic Playlist should be more to help ease skepitcal players over. Go into classic to get used to things like movement and controls, then venture into the other Halo 4 playlists at your pace. Play around with your loadouts.
This. All this.
Listen, literally all you have to do is remove loadouts and AA’s. Preset maps to fit the classic playlists and they’re perfect. Classic gameplay with a slightly new twist (the weapons). I would like the power ups to be available on the map though. That’d be cool.
> The funny thing is after Halo 3 was out for a while alot of people hated it and wanted to go back to Halo 2 same thing happened with Reach next thing you know 3 was this amazing game. The same thing will probly happen with 4, 5, and 6. We have a community that just can’t make up its mind whether or not a game sucks.
This does sound like a rational argument, but I can almost guarantee most people won’t be saying “this isn’t as good as Reach”. Reach fell hard from Halo 3, so it isn’t hard to top Reach.
> > Of course its impossible to completely replicate that classic feel.
> >
> > But it shouldn’t be that bad, as PhArmAssists said the problem isn’t with the weapons or neccesarily the maps… its the mechanics and how it feels. The Loadouts and AAs, mainly.
> >
> >
> > Take those out, and its already pretty classic. Depends on what you mean by classic, this will be more Halo 3 classic. The shielding system and little to no fall damage make it a good classic experience.
> >
> >
> >
> > But, in my opinion, they shouldn’t make the classic playlist for those that hate the game. Don’t completely downgrade everything in it. The Classic Playlist should be more to help ease skepitcal players over. Go into classic to get used to things like movement and controls, then venture into the other Halo 4 playlists at your pace. Play around with your loadouts.
>
> This. All this.
>
> Listen, literally all you have to do is remove loadouts and AA’s. Preset maps to fit the classic playlists and they’re perfect. Classic gameplay with a slightly new twist (the weapons). I would like the power ups to be available on the map though. That’d be cool.
>
> Also, no instant respawns and NO weapons drops.
Which can more than likely be done.
And the new forge improvements, making “classic” maps shouldn’t be too hard nor too boring. There seems to be much more color and different palettes in our 3 Forge choices.
Instant respawns can be disabled, they already are for objective. And you no doubt can forge weapons to be on the map. They might spawn the same way, dropping or just appearing, but you can likely turn off the heads up weapons give when dropping.
> The only thing that’s going to not work will probably be the maps. They were designed with AAs and sprint in mind so gameplay will be slower.
>
> Core mechanics do look good though
Like I said, if they flow well there will be no issue at all. Reach maps were awful for both Reach and classic gameplay, so that’s why it never worked. Reach just has bad maps in general.
> > The funny thing is after Halo 3 was out for a while alot of people hated it and wanted to go back to Halo 2 same thing happened with Reach next thing you know 3 was this amazing game. The same thing will probly happen with 4, 5, and 6. We have a community that just can’t make up its mind whether or not a game sucks.
>
> This does sound like a rational argument, but I can almost guarantee most people won’t be saying “this isn’t as good as Reach”. Reach fell hard from Halo 3, so it isn’t hard to top Reach.
It’ll be what Reach was supposed to be, and better.
It already is looking to improve where Reach failed. Armor Abilities, for example.
> Of course its impossible to completely replicate that classic feel.
>
> But it shouldn’t be that bad, as PhArmAssists said the problem isn’t with the weapons or neccesarily the maps… its the mechanics and how it feels. The Loadouts and AAs, mainly.
>
>
> Take those out, and its already pretty classic. Depends on what you mean by classic, this will be more Halo 3 classic. The shielding system and little to no fall damage make it a good classic experience.
>
>
>
> But, in my opinion, they shouldn’t make the classic playlist for those that hate the game. Don’t completely downgrade everything in it. The Classic Playlist should be more to help ease skepitcal players over. Go into classic to get used to things like movement and controls, then venture into the other Halo 4 playlists at your pace. Play around with your loadouts.
I’m sorry, but no. The classic playlist isn’t meant to ease the players into the overly complicated new style of the game, it’s to satisfy those who are not pleased with the new additions.
> > > Of course its impossible to completely replicate that classic feel.
> > >
> > > But it shouldn’t be that bad, as PhArmAssists said the problem isn’t with the weapons or neccesarily the maps… its the mechanics and how it feels. The Loadouts and AAs, mainly.
> > >
> > >
> > > Take those out, and its already pretty classic. Depends on what you mean by classic, this will be more Halo 3 classic. The shielding system and little to no fall damage make it a good classic experience.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But, in my opinion, they shouldn’t make the classic playlist for those that hate the game. Don’t completely downgrade everything in it. The Classic Playlist should be more to help ease skepitcal players over. Go into classic to get used to things like movement and controls, then venture into the other Halo 4 playlists at your pace. Play around with your loadouts.
> >
> > This. All this.
> >
> > Listen, literally all you have to do is remove loadouts and AA’s. Preset maps to fit the classic playlists and they’re perfect. Classic gameplay with a slightly new twist (the weapons). I would like the power ups to be available on the map though. That’d be cool.
> >
> > Also, no instant respawns and NO weapons drops.
>
> Which can more than likely be done.
>
> And the new forge improvements, making “classic” maps shouldn’t be too hard nor too boring. There seems to be much more color and different palettes in our 3 Forge choices.
>
>
> Instant respawns can be disabled, they already are for objective. And you no doubt can forge weapons to be on the map. They might spawn the same way, dropping or just appearing, but you can likely turn off the heads up weapons give when dropping.
Exactly. Adding classic maps in on the fly would definitely make things interesting.
Yeah, even I’d they still drop in, just don’t make them random. I think the way they drop in is cool honestly.
> > Of course its impossible to completely replicate that classic feel.
> >
> > But it shouldn’t be that bad, as PhArmAssists said the problem isn’t with the weapons or neccesarily the maps… its the mechanics and how it feels. The Loadouts and AAs, mainly.
> >
> >
> > Take those out, and its already pretty classic. Depends on what you mean by classic, this will be more Halo 3 classic. The shielding system and little to no fall damage make it a good classic experience.
> >
> >
> >
> > But, in my opinion, they shouldn’t make the classic playlist for those that hate the game. Don’t completely downgrade everything in it. The Classic Playlist should be more to help ease skepitcal players over. Go into classic to get used to things like movement and controls, then venture into the other Halo 4 playlists at your pace. Play around with your loadouts.
>
> I’m sorry, but no. The classic playlist isn’t meant to ease the players into the overly complicated new style of the game, it’s to satisfy those who are not pleased with the new additions.
Yeah, some of us like to get better at the game, but when things change that’s impossible to do. That’s why keeping something classic is good for us. It doesn’t affect you so why do you hate the idea? Out of spite for people who think differently?
If the game is releasing with classic playlists in mind, obviously there’re mechanics built around them. I hope it’s more like Halo 3, which in mine and a lot of people’s opinions, was the best multiplayer experience in a console shooter ever.
> The funny thing is after Halo 3 was out for a while alot of people hated it and wanted to go back to Halo 2 same thing happened with Reach next thing you know 3 was this amazing game. The same thing will probly happen with 4, 5, and 6. We have a community that just can’t make up its mind whether or not a game sucks.
Oh you know as well as everyone else here that the outrage over Halo 3 was nothing compared to the outrage over Reach. There will always be haters of new games, which H3 had, but Reach had far more legitimate complaints that set it apart from H3’s outrage.
If done right, they could be. It just depends on how well they’re set up. Reach’s “Classic” was still pretty bad. At least with H4’s additions removed it will actually play like a Halo game.
> > Of course its impossible to completely replicate that classic feel.
> >
> > But it shouldn’t be that bad, as PhArmAssists said the problem isn’t with the weapons or neccesarily the maps… its the mechanics and how it feels. The Loadouts and AAs, mainly.
> >
> >
> > Take those out, and its already pretty classic. Depends on what you mean by classic, this will be more Halo 3 classic. The shielding system and little to no fall damage make it a good classic experience.
> >
> >
> >
> > But, in my opinion, they shouldn’t make the classic playlist for those that hate the game. Don’t completely downgrade everything in it. The Classic Playlist should be more to help ease skepitcal players over. Go into classic to get used to things like movement and controls, then venture into the other Halo 4 playlists at your pace. Play around with your loadouts.
>
> This. All this.
>
> Listen, literally all you have to do is remove loadouts and AA’s. Preset maps to fit the classic playlists and they’re perfect. Classic gameplay with a slightly new twist (the weapons). I would like the power ups to be available on the map though. That’d be cool.
>
> Also, no instant respawns and NO weapons drops.
instant respawns is only optional, and can be changed via game settings. As well, weapon drops/ordinance drops are only offered in infinity gametypes, like infinity slayer. default slayer, default objective, etc will all have the same static method of spawning that was present in every other halo game. This is a gametype option that can be toggled on/off, at least for slayer. IT would definitely be removed for classic settings.