The worrying Psychology of Post-2011 Halo fans

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Being the most honest, impartial and open-minded that you possibly can:

If Bungie were still the creators of Halo 4-6, and created the exact same Halo 4 & 5, would you still dislike the games as much?

My theory is, people have a dislike for Halo 4 & 5 simply because of the brand association they have with the games being created by 343i (or to put it more accurately, not-Bungie). (Yes, I know 343i isn’t a brand - It’s just the term I’m using for this post).

If the exact same games were created by Bungie, I would be very interested to see if people still disliked them as much.

Perhaps, people would be saying how great they are, and how they keep up with the gaming enhancements of the decade. People would be applauding the postives such as the 1080p/60fps (even at the expense of splitscreen), the connectedness with the lore (e.g. playing as Blue team!) and the insanely good cutscene graphics.

Halo fans associate Bungie with the nostalgia that developed from the earlier games, despite their flaws. However, Halo fans associate 343i with change away from their precious nostalgia. A Psychology article here based on the adverse effects of nostalgia on habitual worriers include this statement:

> A more present-oriented time perspective, such as mindfulness, is discussed as being beneficial for habitual worriers.

It’s important for people not to be hung up on the old games. Halo fans at the moment are too unbalanced and emotional (you could say…are habitual worriers), and focus on the negatives of the new games because they lack the nostalgic feel of the original Halos.
But my point is, if Bungie were still at the helm, they would still create new Halos that reflect the new enhancements in gaming, like sprint and aiming-down-the-sight, for example (just look at Destiny). They wouldn’t create the same old Halo games, I promise you that.

So, our collective pessimsm for the Post-2011 Halos aren’t neccessarily because they’re bad games.
It’s because we implicitly associate the newer games as not being developed by Bungie. And that creates a strong yearning for nostalgia, and we’ve all become too emotional - wanting…no, DEMANDING this and that from 343i.

So I implore you, fellow Halo fans: Accept the new Halo’s for the fantastic games they are (despite their flaws), be positive, re-read the above quote, and above all, be thankful for Halo.

2

I think you’re right, they are the same people to slate what H5 had at launch, but then praise crummy Destiny despite it’s awful content at launch (and massively cut content!)

Bungie has clearly turned it’s back on the gamers that put them on the map, so why people defend them so much i don’t get?!

3

People hate reach just as much as H5 or h4.

Ok, maybe not h4 lol. But it`s close.

Your point makes no sense.

4

“But my point is, if Bungie were still at the helm, they would still create new Halos that reflect the new enhancements in gaming, like sprint and aiming-down-the-sight, for example (just look at Destiny). They wouldn’t create the same old Halo games, I promise you that.”
You don’t know that, no one does. Destiny isn’t Halo and Halo isn’t Destiny. They knew what made Halo, Halo. Even when they slipped in Reach, they still made a damn good game. 343 gets annihilated because they have no idea what they’re doing. Stop making excuses for them.

5

Yeah if people would sometimes forget the old games a lot of their issues with Halo 5 would disappear. They wouldn’t have forums saying “Get rid of (insert a feature)”. But then games like Overwatch will get praise for free content when it has microtransaction, but Halo 5 will just get hate.

6

I didn’t think of it being cause of different publishers.

There were many things I liked about halo 4 like with various team sizes for different objectives made the game play more varied. I’d liked to have seen in halo 5 with possible class preset load outs for objective games instead of choosing load outs. Though I wouldn’t of been bothered if we could choose.

7

Probably not, I don’t hate what 343 is doing, but Bungie’s formula was great.

8

I agree, people just want the “old formula” back even knowing it is impractical nowadays, imo. I understand Halo 5 disrespect the characters we love, I know it lacks content. But, I see here too much complaint due to nostalgia and just because of it.

9

None of the hate you are seeing is new. The transitions between Halo games have always been shrouded in controversy. Halo 2 was critiqued by hardcore CE fans. The same happened with 3. Just look at how much hate Reach received at launch. It was bashed by many fans, but with the pass of time, Reach is now praised as a great Halo game (rightly so, I might add). I bet you 5 brownie points that by the time Halo 6 releases, Halo 4 will be considered the last true Halo.

10

If it ain’t broke.

11

> 2533275011491088;9:
> None of the hate you are seeing is new. The transitions between Halo games have always been shrouded in controversy. Halo 2 was critiqued by hardcore CE fans. The same happened with 3. Just look at how much hate Reach received at launch. It was bashed by many fans, but with the pass of time, Reach is now praised as a great Halo game (rightly so, I might add). I bet you 5 brownie points that by the time Halo 6 releases, Halo 4 will be considered the last true Halo.

Agreed. Upon playing them in order last year, I found Reach to be fantastic.
I hope the 343i games get the recognition they deserve eventually.

12

> 2533274793226068;4:
> “But my point is, if Bungie were still at the helm, they would still create new Halos that reflect the new enhancements in gaming, like sprint and aiming-down-the-sight, for example (just look at Destiny). They wouldn’t create the same old Halo games, I promise you that.”
> You don’t know that, no one does. Destiny isn’t Halo and Halo isn’t Destiny. They knew what made Halo, Halo. Even when they slipped in Reach, they still made a damn good game. 343 gets annihilated because they have no idea what they’re doing. Stop making excuses for them.

You’re right, I don’t know for a fact.
But based on the evidence (Destiny) it’s not out of the question to assume so.

13

> 2533274852187545;1:
> Being the most honest, impartial and open-minded that you possibly can:
>
> If Bungie were still the creators of Halo 4-6, and created the exact same Halo 4 & 5, would you still dislike the games as much?
>
> My theory is, people have a dislike for Halo 4 & 5 simply because of the brand association they have with the games being created by 343i (or to put it more accurately, not-Bungie). (Yes, I know 343i isn’t a brand - It’s just the term I’m using for this post).
>
> If the exact same games were created by Bungie, I would be very interested to see if people still disliked them as much.
>
> Perhaps, people would be saying how great they are, and how they keep up with the gaming enhancements of the decade. People would be applauding the postives such as the 1080p/60fps (even at the expense of splitscreen), the connectedness with the lore (e.g. playing as Blue team!) and the insanely good cutscene graphics.
>
> Halo fans associate Bungie with the nostalgia that developed from the earlier games, despite their flaws. However, Halo fans associate 343i with change away from their precious nostalgia. A Psychology article here based on the adverse effects of nostalgia on habitual worriers include this statement:
>
>
> > A more present-oriented time perspective, such as mindfulness, is discussed as being beneficial for habitual worriers.
>
>
> It’s important for people not to be hung up on the old games. Halo fans at the moment are too unbalanced and emotional (you could say…are habitual worriers), and focus on the negatives of the new games because they lack the nostalgic feel of the original Halos.
> But my point is, if Bungie were still at the helm, they would still create new Halos that reflect the new enhancements in gaming, like sprint and aiming-down-the-sight, for example (just look at Destiny). They wouldn’t create the same old Halo games, I promise you that.
>
> So, our collective pessimsm for the Post-2011 Halos aren’t neccessarily because they’re bad games.
> It’s because we implicitly associate the newer games as not being developed by Bungie. And that creates a strong yearning for nostalgia, and we’ve all become too emotional - wanting…no, DEMANDING this and that from 343i.
>
> So I implore you, fellow Halo fans: Accept the new Halo’s for the fantastic games they are (despite their flaws), be positive, re-read the above quote, and above all, be thankful for Halo.

I literally posted the same thing and had it locked but to answer your question, yes I’d be disappointed in bungie for releasing a half baked game

14

> 2533274852187545;1:
> My theory is, people have a dislike for Halo 4 & 5 simply because of the brand association they have with the games being created by 343i (or to put it more accurately, not-Bungie). (Yes, I know 343i isn’t a brand - It’s just the term I’m using for this post)

Well my theory is that your theory is neither right nor validatable, what do we do now?

15

Nice theory, but not correct. Bungie made Reach and that was the one where I, and many like me started having issues with the game. The game was still a good one, but it put in so much b.s. that changed what we loved about Halo. Yeah we played it but we complained during every game lol. Then with 4 my hope was for a return to former glory when they, 343 now, just took what was bad and magnified it. This is the one that I tried to still play but in short time I just had to quit. Now 5 is a very big step in the right direction. It still has some b.s., but not so much and I can live with most of it. It’s the most fun I’ve had since Halo 3 and I hope that 6 is even better. I don’t care if Bungie did it or 343, as long as it’s done right or as close as they can come. Bungie did it right for 3 games then dropped on the 4th. 343 is 1 out of 2 for me and I think they do care and try their best. There are still some questionable decisions at times but it has gotten better. I hope Halo 6 is their Halo 3.

16

I don’t think that my opinion would have changed about Halo 5 if Bungie had made it. I wasn’t a fan of Reach, which Bungie did create. Then Halo 4’s plot pleasantly surprised me and I thought it had a fantastic ending (even if the Didact’s defeat was pretty lame). But then Halo 5 comes out and spits on everything Halo 4’s story both gained and lost. So even if Bungie had made all these games the way that they are now with 343i, I still would have huge issues with the change in gameplay and the story decisions.

It is not blind nostalgia. I still greatly enjoy the original games, and for good reasons.

17

> 2533274852187545;1:
> Being the most honest, impartial and open-minded that you possibly can:
>
> If Bungie were still the creators of Halo 4-6, and created the exact same Halo 4 & 5, would you still dislike the games as much?
>
> My theory is, people have a dislike for Halo 4 & 5 simply because of the brand association they have with the games being created by 343i (or to put it more accurately, not-Bungie). (Yes, I know 343i isn’t a brand - It’s just the term I’m using for this post).
>
> If the exact same games were created by Bungie, I would be very interested to see if people still disliked them as much.
>
> Perhaps, people would be saying how great they are, and how they keep up with the gaming enhancements of the decade. People would be applauding the postives such as the 1080p/60fps (even at the expense of splitscreen), the connectedness with the lore (e.g. playing as Blue team!) and the insanely good cutscene graphics.
>
> Halo fans associate Bungie with the nostalgia that developed from the earlier games, despite their flaws. However, Halo fans associate 343i with change away from their precious nostalgia. A Psychology article here based on the adverse effects of nostalgia on habitual worriers include this statement:
>
>
> > A more present-oriented time perspective, such as mindfulness, is discussed as being beneficial for habitual worriers.
>
>
> It’s important for people not to be hung up on the old games. Halo fans at the moment are too unbalanced and emotional (you could say…are habitual worriers), and focus on the negatives of the new games because they lack the nostalgic feel of the original Halos.
> But my point is, if Bungie were still at the helm, they would still create new Halos that reflect the new enhancements in gaming, like sprint and aiming-down-the-sight, for example (just look at Destiny). They wouldn’t create the same old Halo games, I promise you that.
>
> So, our collective pessimsm for the Post-2011 Halos aren’t neccessarily because they’re bad games.
> It’s because we implicitly associate the newer games as not being developed by Bungie. And that creates a strong yearning for nostalgia, and we’ve all become too emotional - wanting…no, DEMANDING this and that from 343i.
>
> So I implore you, fellow Halo fans: Accept the new Halo’s for the fantastic games they are (despite their flaws), be positive, re-read the above quote, and above all, be thankful for Halo.

I get where you’re coming from I really do, however I don’t see much value in your argument. There seems to be some equivocation on the term, “nostalgia” to start with. In the study you presented people have nostalgic states induced and then certain behaviors are measure as opposed to the blanket use of “nostalgia” as the reason some of the Anti-343/Anti-Sprint crowd hold that opinion which is probably more a form of straw man then it is the actual source of their opinion. You also state that being hung-up on the old games leads to them being Habitual worriers, which isn’t what was shown in the study you presented.

You state your ‘theory’ (using loosely as I don’t you have the backing to call it a theory proper) is that one of the reasons is Brand association. That is an interesting idea. Why didn’t you source studies that had to do with studying the effect of Brand/labeling on people’s opinions? I know there are plenty out there and a more convincing argument could be made using them.

18

Nope. If Bungie were still in charge and made Halos 4 and 5 the same way 343 has made them, my enthusiasm for this franchise would have declined just the same as it has under 343.

The flaw in your argument is that you assume Bungie would’ve followed the exact same path and you use Destiny as an example of that. Destiny and Halo are two completely different games. Different mechanics, play style, etc. You cannot say that Bungie would’ve done the same with Halo because they’ve done it with Destiny. It’s more than possible for a developer to have multiple franchises that play differently from each other.

My dislike of the new Halos isn’t because they’re “non-Bungie”, it’s because 343 implemented too much change too fast and for mostly no reason other than because other games are doing the same things. Keep in mind that Halo did not achieve its success by following what other games were doing at the time. It gained success by being unique and doing its own thing.

We have so many shooters that play too similarly to one another these days that it’s understandable that Halo fans are upset with Halo following the same trends. A lot of shooters today offer almost the exact same experience as the other, so we really don’t need more games cramming that space. We need games to break from the mold and do something unique again.

It maybe easier said than done, as with how much time has passed it’s a little difficult to be 100% original, but unique-ness doesn’t necessarily mean doing something no one has ever done before. There’s nothing wrong with taking inspiration from other games, but if you’re going to do that, at least make whatever additions you make to your game unique to your game. Don’t just take something from other games and place it into yours. Find a way to make it stand out. Make sure it doesn’t mess with the near perfect formula your game already has. And if you can’t find a way to do any of that, then those additions are clearly not right for your game.

In the end, 343’s mistakes are changing too much too fast for no reason, trying to appeal to an audience that doesn’t want to play Halo in the first place, and trying to make Halo the next twitch shooter #2957148763. Halo worked the way it was. Don’t change it, improve upon it.

19

Answer: I would still hate trash 5: guardians and would continue to list out all of its problems no matter the creator.

The fact of the matter is, people have different tastes than you, as well as different opinions. Stop trying to classify them as negative, nostalgia, overly positive or anything of the like just to justify your own opinion.

20

Oh please, don’t throw that generalization around like anyone who dislikes the 343 Halo games are blinded by nostalgia. I’ll admit, the 343-haters can be bitter people, and the nit-picking they do can get very depressing very quickly, but it’s important to associate the “Master Chief talks too much” people from the “the lack of content is a huge problem” ones. One doesn’t know what they’re talking about while the other is genuine criticism.

Besides, I can name several things I don’t like about the Bungie games as well as the 343 games:
-CE had horrible vehicular combat, boring gameplay and maps
-Halo 2’s gameplay and balance was a mess
-Halo 3’s story was a over-bloated, and the Forge is pretty terrible
-Halo Reach… no explanation needed
-Halo 4’s multiplayer was shallow, as was its Forge
-Halo 5’s campaign turned out to be lying its -Yoink- off, the maps are boring like CE’s, and the lack of basic things like a file browser or Oddball lower the replay value

And despite these personal flaws held I still prefer the Bungie games, not because 343 made the rest, but in part to actual quality. If Bungie did make Halo 4 & 5 my feelings would be unchanged.