It’s almost like Spartans are still ultmately just humans and shouldn’t be put on pedestals of immortality by people.
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I know people like to skip cutscenes and didn’t play HW2, but Atriox is basically the Brute version of the DOOM Slayer or a SPARTAN-2 in canon from his introduction; a Brute so driven by rage and anger at his kind’s treatment by the Covenant that he was able to successfully launch a revolt and attack the Covenant.
The SPARTANs have always been powerful, but the franchise has always had beings in the Covenant on par with them, just not as smart or weighed down by dogma.
I’m pretty sure he had time with that monologue nonsense he was doing…
Humans that quickly help make sure the UNSC didn’t completely get destroyed by the covenant. They literally dive into battle and clear LZs like its a day job. If they didnt have them, they would’ve been A N N H I L A T E D.
Yes, absolutely. But Spartans are not immortal.
I think a lot of the misunderstandings about Atriox vs Chief come down to a few things:
1: The belief that Spartans, Particularly Spartan-II’s are both the unstoppable force and the immovable object. Which is not true, it has never been true, there are several cases in the books where a spartan gets his/her world rocked or worse, killed. They are by no means glass cannons as others have suggested. but they are by no means these unkillable juggernauts in combat, and their lethality typically comes from superior tactics rather than brute force.
2: An over-reliance on the In-universe mythos “Spartans never die, they are only missing-in-action”
3: The idea that Chief, as one of two Spartans with confirmed “Hyper Lethal Vector” status (the other being Noble Six as retroactively established by Bungie, for better or worse) means that he himself is unbeatable. which is also not true. Time and time again he has been near death or in a position where he cannot resist what is happening in the moment and his been either bailed out by Blue Team or Cortana, or is otherwise kept alive intentionally in the case of characters like the Gravemind.
4: The idea that Atriox is “just a brute” when he is well established to be Larger, Stronger, And considerably smarter than a vast majority of brutes, on top of the fact that he lead his own army against the covenant who eventually left him alone for fear of their own forces being decimated, and that is all ignoring the fact that Atriox is far FAR more motivated than any individual in the UNSC, even chief at that time, and has been shown to be able to physically overpower Spartan-II’s with relative ease.
5: People seem to conflate the overall weight of Chiefs armor with the amount of force behind his punch. . . which is an incorrect translation. regardless of if it is over or underestimated, the weight of his armor will not translate to how strong of a punch he can perform. And while he can overcome the tensile strength of steel (see halo 3 ending) that, also, is not the same as punching layers of armor covering layers of muscle, tendons, and hide, which will do a far better job of absorbing and distributing the force of his punch than steel would.
6: The idea that chief is the “best” spartan 2. This is also false. He himself admits that Fred is his superior in all aspects except ambition. noting that Fred would frequently purposefully lose to chief, so that chief would be the leader of blue team. The only other thing chief exceeds Fred in, is the unquantifiable “luck” factor. (which, hey, go figure, chief is lucky to be alive after the prologue and echo-216 finding him)
7: A fact that people seem to frequently forget. The Chief is, at this point, OLD. He has been in the UNSC since several years BEFORE the fall of reach. and was himself born in 2511. . . for reference, the human-covenant war ended in 2552. . . which was a full 41 years after chief’s DoB. . . And then another 6 years pass before forward unto dawn stumbles upon requiem in 2558. . . even taking into account the aging slowing effects of cryo stasis. . . chief is pushin 50 by 2559, when halo Infinite takes place. . . Even considering his spartan augmentations, 40 years (iirc, chief was kidnapped in 2519) bouncing between training, cryo sleep and relentless combat takes its toll on a body. He is nowhere near in his prime while Atriox is still as vicious and relentless as he was in HW2.
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Chief getting put down by Atriox after being stuck in non-stop combat didn’t really bother me. Spartans of any variety will succumb to overwhelming odds, its happened several times through the franchise EU history and a couple of the games. The main issue I had is Infinite seems to really double down on the concept of Spartan IV’s effectively being “Kirkland brand” Spartans, yet it works hard to assign some level of significance to those same discount Spartans.
This is an issue I’ve had since Halo 4, where Spartan Ops introduced the S IV’s as being a handful of stereotypical, cocksure jarheads with augments and power-armor. Their entire generation hurts the brand, and while this made sense to the point of selling just how significant the capabilities of the S-II/S-III are, their continued use is pretty nonsensical. The IV’s are supposed to be “the best”, yet they get mopped left and right by the Banished’ middle management, falling as much to their own stupidity than the clever planning of the enemy.
Everyone can’t have plot armor, and that is at the core of the issue here, but using the deaths of the laughably “lesser” S IV’s to sell a threat just doesn’t track.
I’m inclined to agree with this actually. Cortana literally chose Master Chief because he’s luckier than the rest.
Infinite really needs to fill us in on how many Spartans are still alive after what the Banished and Cortana did. Maybe Red Team and hopefully Blue Team. Based on a few things, Osiris Team with Locke is dead. Tons of tags were floating in space. Chief really is lucky to be alive. Spoiler Audio files were found for a cut credits cutscene in Infinite where Chief and the Pilot get an alert that a UNSC tag was identified as “Friend” incoming, and then he said “Chief, you’re not gonna believe this.” so very curious who is coming in future DLC.
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That Morse code, it feels like a key piece of information
The morse code just translates to “UNSC TAG DETECTED”
Doesn’t really say anything useful
Installation 00 has a full breakdown on in lore spartan aging (they do not age like we do) as well as just how strong they are with physics reconciliation and all the math behind it.
Yes I understand VERY well the whole Spartans never die and are invincible is an in universe propaganda line
THAT SAID…
The representation of the fight and the reason it was done that way is utter bull#### and absolutely horrible writing
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Pretty sure once again, we learned that visually in Reach.
The description of Spartan’s slow and painful death process and the heroic act of fighting to the last moment in that newly published novel makes me extremely sad and angry.
Bah, covenant . I wish Rtas could glass them all.
Yeah well then we should expect Chief to lose in CQC to someone three times his size.
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Since when does size = automatic when in close quarters combat? Couldn’t be anymore far from the truth.
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Hunters on legendary.
sigh
Look. Chief lost and you need to accept that.
Atriox absolutely played with a group of three Spartan IIs before, why in the world do you think Chief had a shot? Also like… If you’re larger, you aren’t slower. Not at all. You have more reach, you don’t move slower, you likely have more strength at your disposal.
Lemme’ put it this way. My girlfriend is a martial artist and a better one than me - far better. If I knew all she does, though, it isn’t a fair fight. I’m 6’3 and 360lbs. She’s 5.3 and like, what, 120lbs. She is less than half my mass and while surprisingly strong, I’d still probably come out on top because I’m in an entirely different weight class.
Weight classes are a very real thing that exists. Alongside being 360, I’m 6’3. The first thing people comment on is my height. Just sizing up has pushed people away from fights who could probably do me in. There’s a reason featherweights and heavyweights do not mix in boxing and why MMA is also based on weight class. Now given Brutes are about nine feet tall standing and Spartans are about Seven feet tall standing, but the former is easily triple the mass… It kind of explains itself, doesn’t it?
Chief doesn’t afraid of anything, as everybody knows, but Atriox is… A beast. Tell me something, how often do you raw melee fight Brutes in Infinite and win? Do you take on Berserkers alone with no weapons or tools or do you use the stun and pound like a reasonable combatant?
What I’m saying is: A well trained or capable Brute - not your average every day trooper, is more than an even fight for a Spartan in CQC. Do you remember the berserking Brutes in Halo 2? Past Normal you could not reasonably beat them blow for blow. Chief HAS to use his tools to win and that’s not cheap! But Chief only had a grappling hook and his fists. That’s… Not going to fell Atriox, who was armed with an entire Gravity Mace of his own design.
tl;drAtriox is in an entirely different weight class than Chief and has drawn Spartan II blood before. John is simply not Atriox’s physical equal. He completely overpowers every single Spartan II. Even Fred would struggle to get an edge, despite being the best CQC specialist in the UNSC. Remember, a member of Red Team jammed a knife in Atriox’s side, and he didn’t even flinch.
John never stood a chance. He said it himself, Atriox beat him brutally,
“Atriox came for you. He attacked The Infinity. We fought. He won. Atriox beat me. Surgically. Precisely. Brutally.”
Atriox didn’t just beat Chief, either. He robbed Chief of his dignity, made him helpless. he was something that no matter what, John could not beat.
Chief accepted this happened, so why can’t you?
First off there are alot of factors of knowing the same thing someone else does and acting accordingly. It would come down to who is legitimately a better fighter. And there’s literal cutscenes and ads of Chief beating the crap out of Brutes. Halo 4s intro and infinites ad. So yes Brutes have strength that outclass a Spartans but by no means is that the only factor to determine in a fight.
I don’t care what Atroix did, my point is if they were going to have Master Chief, the guy whose done alot of crap since Halo CE and before lose, make it a good fight. We all know Chief would trash Locke but it’s known and pretty much greatly accepted as the worst choreographed fight in Halo. A web fan series has a much better fight showcasing Spartans for heavens sake. Instead of Atroix doing the cliche villain monologue shtick, you could’ve had Chief barely get away and ONLY flee in defeat. Hell, marines could saved Chied and wisk him away and fail getting killed off one by one with Chief helpless to stop as the ship is being blown to hell.
You mention a knife didn’t affect him? Ok? And? Glad to know Chiefs punches could stagger Atroix than a dinky knife.
Lastly, we literally take on a battlion of the Banish, systematically kill each of the high ranked members as well as “Spartan killers” as the Chief as well as Atroixs teacher. So many Brutes that are not your “average trooper” … So not only was Atroixs “victory” felt hollow and shoehorned for cheap set up at the needless expense of Chief. This ain’t the Didact. And Chief is VERY resourceful In battle.So all I’m saying is what we got was crappy setup.
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You aren’t very good at this and it isn’t worth my time.
Also Locke gained the upper hand and if Chief hadn’t slapped the armor lock onto him, that fight was over.
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