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> > > > > The main reason I care about minimizing sandbox redundancy is that it forces 343 to get creative with new additions.
> > > > >
> > > > > While Infinite has a smaller weapon sandbox than Halo 4 or 5, it does feature the widest variety of things you can do with that sandbox, because there is significantly more uniqueness across it.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are still some areas that overlap. The Shock Rifle kind of falls too close to both the Sniper and Skewer if you ask me. But it’s a heck of a lot more unique than the Beam Rifle. And while effort was clearly made to distinguish the Shotgun, Sword and Hammer, the letter two still boil down to “get close, press RT, get kill”. And if the classic shotgun came back it would just be that too.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Halo has always had tons of redundancy, I’m sick of people pretending that 343i were the ones that came out of nowhere and interfered with the perfect sandbox of 3/Reach. Most obvious example is BR, Carbine, Magnum/pistol, Needle Rifle, DMR, basically like 5 or 6 guns that essentially do the same exact thing and people just overlook it because nostalgia.
> > > >
> > > > 2. The arguments you use aren’t even good, Shock Rifle is a long range precision weapon akin to a sniper rifle yes, but does anyone seriously believe its closest to Skewer/Sniper? Those are one hit kills. Shock rifle is closest pound for pound to Focus Rifle, or Sentinel Beam, or maybe even the Binary Rifle if you examine things.
> > > >
> > > > Heatwave is pretty much just the Scattershot and yet no one mentions that, its like people never played 4/5 or something idk.
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> > > > 3. What really matters is whether or not the weapon is fun to use/fight against, I don’t care one iota if weapon is redundant, what I care about is if it plays redundant, some food for thought.
> > To only compare the Halos based off of precision rifles is a bit misleading; Beam rifle, Sentinel beam, Spiker, Spike/flame nade, etc. lots of redundancy that people overlook because Halo 1-3 were awesome. Frankly I feel that Reach was a huge exception, where they actually started coming up with some unique weapon designs, but I digress.
> > Yes Bungie didn’t have as much redundancy, its because there is this type of enemy called the prometheans that came about in Halo 4/5, or did you forget? Again, the redundancy is mainly a result of all the different classes of enemies in Halo, has very very little to do with the actual company behind said enemy. Now if you want to argue that Prometheans were terrible and that they should have never been in Halo then fine that makes sense, but lets not pretend that if Bungie had been in charge of 4/5 it would’ve been any different, they were pretty much already running out of ideas with 2/3 so hard to imagine them being any better realistically than 343i as far as weapon design is concerned.
> > Overall 343i are pretty impressive as far as weapon/map design is concerned, just be happy they aren’t a lazy company that never comes up with new ideas.
> I may as well be nitpicky but the sentinel beam functions differently than a sniper, look at quake, a sniper (railgun) functions differently to a longer killtime beam (lightning gun) the only weapon that functioned like it was the focus rifle in Reach which was solo. Weapon uniqueness and role redundancy was not an issue in Bungie Halo, weak and useless weapons were. Reach did have some great ideas and it’s a shame the grenade launcher hasn’t returned. I wouldn’t say they ran out of ideas in 2 and 3
> Prometheans are very forgettable, but look at the covenant, they had many unique weapons that had no analog to human weaponry. Whereas the Prometheans?
> Binary - 1sk sniper
> Incin cannon - rocket with more radius and splash in 4 then made more awkward and tracking in 5
> scattershot - lottery shotgun
> boltshot - OP lottery mauler in 4, weird needler / BR hybrid in 5
> pulse grenade - useless power drain
> suppressor - AR / plasma rifle hybrid
> light rifle - BR / DMR hybrid
> Compare it to the Covenant weapon set which when it had an analog gave a new dimension
> (AR) Plasma rifle - shield melter, slowed in CE
> (AR) Needler - High ROF, homing and explosive
> (Sniper) Beam rifle - High ROF, overheating to negate spam
> (Pistol) Plasma pistol - homing, stripped shields
> (BR) Carbine - High ROF, accurate
> etc etc. The entire Promethean weapon set was just human weapons stepping on the toes of Covenant weapon traits with the addition of low risk high reward killtimes, randomness and awkward firing mechanics. They weren’t fun to shoot or to get shot at and some other weapons they added like the SAW. Even Infinite is doing the same thing with shock weapons taking a role that existed and the previous weapons to do it now in an awkward place having there role stripped and not much to replace it with. I don’t think that’s impressive at all when legacy weapons roles are made more awkward due to odd decision making and the new weapons to take its place feeling more awkward and less balanced than before. That or there’s a direct clone that does the function better but in a less fair way (most of H4 weapons) or just worse.
> That’s on the topic of weapon balance, I don’t see how anything from 4 or 5’s map design could be considered impressive. Even in this beta, the BTB map layout wasn’t great and Bazaaar wasn’t a good map. Recharge and LiveFire were good but not impressive. I think they are a nudge lazy, they do enough to change the legacy gameplay so that it doesn’t feel like classic Halo but no more than that so it doesn’t ever feel fresh. The 4 and 5 campaigns just felt like a Halo campaign with all the good bits taken out, the maps feel like Halo maps without the personality, colour or distinction and the weapons feel the same too but perform worse. 343s main positive quality is that they’re hands on, but they aren’t exactly pioneers. Especially when the main selling point of Inifinte in a roundabout way is “We won’t do the same screw-ups as our last 2 games and are going to focus more on things people enjoyed before we changed them”
You lost all credibility when you praise the Beam rifle then pretend the Binary is any different, also Halo 5 maps were GOAT bro, again, you base everything off of nostalgia instead of using reason/logic.
I don’t like 343i, but they have proven they can make some exceptional weapons/maps and can even write a good story (Halo 4), their biggest downfall isn’t that they aren’t creative enough, its the exact opposite.
Edit: I call it the “nostalgia trap” people base everything off of nostalgia, don’t recognize that, then never bother trying to understand why they like or dislike something, this isn’t 2007, Halo is not the same, you are not the same. If you would like to argue with me more send me a DM, I am happy to converse with you but only if its constructive.