The weapon sandbox of Halo 4 was GREAT!

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

It seems a lot of gamers think H4 matchmaking was more of a lottery than a competition. Skill just didn’t matter as much this time around. I happen to agree. Mostly.

And you can say whatever you want about sprint, loadouts, AAs and specializations, but I think the overall selection of weapons was near perfect. And thats what I want to point out here.

HOWEVER: Halo 4 also introduced a little something called Infinity Slayer (and other similar game types). And, as you know, that meant new power weapons where now thrown into the mix at rapid intervals.

In my opinion, this caused an abundance of power weapons in most games. Almost anyone can get a kill with an Incineration Cannon / Binary rifle / Sniper Rifle / FRG / etc. And, as a result of that, no matter how skilled you where, you could meet your demise around any corner, at any point in time.

A lot of people criticize the new power weapons, or the amount of power weapons, or the availability of four different marksman rifles, or whatever.
I think the problem isn’t that we had too many varieties to choose from, but that we got too many per game (you guys get the difference right?). Power weapons that is.

I think that if we went back to 2-3 map-native power weapon spawns per game, War Games would be better for it.
If there really needs to be some grand reward system, why not experiment with granting light vehicles upon objective goals?

tl:dr: I say keep all the weapons from Halo 4 in Halo X1. I love most of them. But don’t let me see all of them in one match. Please.

And for what its worth, I also want specializations/perks to disappear. (universally and from all matchmaking aspects, of course).

Thanks for reading.
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2

In terms of most weapons being fairly decent, yeah the sandbox was pretty good(especially in regards to auto weapons other than the SAW).

However there is still a lot of problems with weapons being too similar to one another.

The AR/SR/Suppressor are functionally identical. The same with the BR/Carbine and with pretty much every Forerunner weapon(and their human/covy counterparts).

Now I can live with Forerunner weapons becoming just high tier versions of ‘default’ weapons. That fits with them being the most advanced Race involved, but the Human and Covenant sandbox has had huge problems with redundancy and ‘backup’ weapons since Halo 2. And don’t even get me started on ‘secondaries’ like the Magnum, what a terrible concept for a pickup sandbox.

There are a variety of causes, dual wielding and load-outs being chief among them.

I really hope Halo 5 reworks quite a few weapons and trims some of the fat of the sandbox. Having more weapons is not always a good thing. Halo 4 was a step in the right direction for the most part, but there is still a long way to go.

3

> In terms of most weapons being fairly decent, yeah the sandbox was pretty good(especially in regards to auto weapons other than the SAW). (…)

I gotta say, I totally agree with you on the AR/SR/Sup. stuff, Although the BR and carbine are perhaps the two most different marksman rifles in my opinion. (Typo?).

I wouldn’t put the SAW in the same category as the other autos, as it is a designated power weapon, which goes back to what I said in my first post. Its just masked by the abundance of other PWs. (I think).

But yeah, the Storm Rifle could easily be removed for its predecessor, the Plasma Rifle. If not only to make it stand more apart from the AR. The suppressor, to be entirely honest, I wouldn’t be that sad if it happened to disappear.

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4

> I wouldn’t put the SAW in the same category as the other autos, as it is a designated power weapon, which goes back to what I said in my first post. Its just masked by the abundance of other PWs. (I think).

What is the SAW’s weakness? For the RL you need to not blow yourself or your teammates up, for the Sniper you need to be accurate. The SAW has no downside to it, it can kill insanely quickly, it has a high ROF, it has a large mag, and it can easily hit targets at mid and long range when burst fired.

5

> > I wouldn’t put the SAW in the same category as the other autos, as it is a designated power weapon, which goes back to what I said in my first post. Its just masked by the abundance of other PWs. (I think).
>
> What is the SAW’s weakness? For the RL you need to not blow yourself or your teammates up, for the Sniper you need to be accurate. The SAW has no downside to it, it can kill insanely quickly, it has a high ROF, it has a large mag, and it can easily hit targets at mid and long range when burst fired.

Allright, so are you saying the SAW is too OP even for a Power Weapon, or are you saying its too easy to use?

In either case I don’t think the RL (and the Incineration Cannon, btw) is weaker or more demanding.

If there is a player who manages to kill himself with the RL, he/she will also most likely be unable to use the SAW properly. (you got to at least aim properly for a short while).

Also, in a game with RL vs. SAW, who do you think will win? My money is on the RL guys getting a very high K/D.

Its a Power Weapon. Reduce the amount of these per game and you solve the problem.

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6

> Also, in a game with RL vs. SAW, who do you think will win? My money is on the RL guys getting a very high K/D.

That’s not necessarily a guaranteed victory. Keep in mind the fact that the kill-time for the SAW is half as long as the reload time for the Rocket Launcher and be aware of the fact that the SAW can have around three kills with just one clip whereas the Rocket Launcher can only have two.

If you have all parameters into account, the SAW is stronger than the Rocket Launcher in every way except for damage per shot and splash damage.

> Its a Power Weapon. Reduce the amount of these per game and you solve the problem.

“Power weapon” doesn’t mean invincible and reducing the amount of them won’t necessarily “fix” any issues.

7

> > In terms of most weapons being fairly decent, yeah the sandbox was pretty good(especially in regards to auto weapons other than the SAW). (…)
>
> I gotta say, I totally agree with you on the AR/SR/Sup. stuff, Although the BR and carbine are perhaps the two most different marksman rifles in my opinion. (Typo?).
>
> I wouldn’t put the SAW in the same category as the other autos, as it is a designated power weapon, which goes back to what I said in my first post. Its just masked by the abundance of other PWs. (I think).
>
> <mark>But yeah, the Storm Rifle could easily be removed for its predecessor, the Plasma Rifle. If not only to make it stand more apart from the AR. The suppressor, to be entirely honest, I wouldn’t be that sad if it happened to disappear.</mark>
>
> Ψ

I’d say rather than drop the SR, add in the stun trait from the CE plasma rifle, and add in the venting function from the plasma repeater and it stands out all it needs to. As for the suppressor, cut it along with all the current forerunner weapons. None of the current Forerunner weapons are currently unique enough to consider keeping at all save maybe the IC.

8

> > > I wouldn’t put the SAW in the same category as the other autos, as it is a designated power weapon, which goes back to what I said in my first post. Its just masked by the abundance of other PWs. (I think).
> >
> > What is the SAW’s weakness? For the RL you need to not blow yourself or your teammates up, for the Sniper you need to be accurate. The SAW has no downside to it, it can kill insanely quickly, it has a high ROF, it has a large mag, and it can easily hit targets at mid and long range when burst fired.
>
> Allright, so are you saying the SAW is too OP even for a Power Weapon, or are you saying its too easy to use?
>
> In either case I don’t think the RL (and the Incineration Cannon, btw) is weaker or more demanding.
>
> If there is a player who manages to kill himself with the RL, he/she will also most likely be unable to use the SAW properly. (you got to at least aim properly for a short while).
>
> Also, in a game with RL vs. SAW, who do you think will win? My money is on the RL guys getting a very high K/D.
>
> Its a Power Weapon. Reduce the amount of these per game and you solve the problem.
>
> Ψ

Both, they run hand in hand. There’s no difficulty with using the SAW, and it kills with ease.

It doesn’t matter if the weapon can’t beat every other weapon in the game in every situation, that isn’t the definition of over powered. And saying, “It’s a power weapon, it’s supposed to be that powerful” is just as much BS.

9

In general, I agree. Halo 4 had one of the best weapon sandboxes in the series (even if the weapons themselves weren’t utilized correctly- Boltshot and PP in Loadouts was very bad for example). The one issue I have with it is that a lot of weapons (especially the automatics and the Promethean weapons, barring a few exceptions) were multiplied copies of one another. The Supressor, AR and SR are all too similar and thereby too boring. The Promethean weapons are pretty uninspiring- you’d expect the Forerunners to have laser beams and blobs and just weird alien weapons in general, but the Covenant Sanbox is ten times more unique and alien (and it’s been here for over a decade). I hope 343i overhauls the Promethean weapons ahead of Halo 5, to make it more unique. And bring back the -Yoink!- Sentinel Beam!

10

The weapon sandbox really doesn’t matter to me at all. If they eliminated all weapons except a single utility weapon, a single secondary/support weapon, Rocket Launchers, Sniper Rifles, Shotguns, Spartan Lasers, Frag Grenades, and Plasma Grenades, I would be alright.

11

I think that Reach, aside from it’s lack of the BR had an overall better weapon sandbox. There weren’t so many clone weapons as we have in Halo 4 (Like do we really need 3 Sniper Rifles and 3 Rocket Launchers) The weapons in reach were almost all unique from one another. We had cool inventive things like the Grenade Launcher and the Plasma Launcher which were supposed to be the same class of weapon but functioned completely differently. Reach had so much diversity while 4 feels really copy and paste. The most unique weapon in Halo 4 is the Sticky Detonator and realy all that is, is a more Noob friendly grenade launcher. If I was Making Halo I would Have all of the weapons from Reach, Bring back all the Dual welding weapons and maybee a more powerfull Boltshot as a Power Weapon.

12

Halo 4’s sandbox of weapons was my least favorite of any Halo games. Too many weapons did the same thing.

I want more of a variety of more-unique weapons, not three different assault rifle-type weapons, four different accuracy-type weapons, and so on so forth.

The weapon sandbox either needs to shrink, or each weapon needs to be much more unique to one another than what was presented in Halo 4, which were simply aesthetically-reskined weapons.

13

> I’d say rather than drop the SR, add in the stun trait from the CE plasma rifle, and add in the venting function from the plasma repeater and it stands out all it needs to. As for the suppressor, cut it along with all the current forerunner weapons. None of the current Forerunner weapons are currently unique enough to consider keeping at all save maybe the IC.

> In general, I agree. Halo 4 had one of the best weapon sandboxes in the series (even if the weapons themselves weren’t utilized correctly- Boltshot and PP in Loadouts was very bad for example). The one issue I have with it is that a lot of weapons (especially the automatics and the Promethean weapons, barring a few exceptions) were multiplied copies of one another. The Supressor, AR and SR are all too similar and thereby too boring. The Promethean weapons are pretty uninspiring- you’d expect the Forerunners to have laser beams and blobs and just weird alien weapons in general, but the Covenant Sanbox is ten times more unique and alien (and it’s been here for over a decade). I hope 343i overhauls the Promethean weapons ahead of Halo 5, to make it more unique. And bring back the -Yoink!- Sentinel Beam!

Admittedly, in contradiction to my overall stance on the weapon sandbox in Halo 4, and the topic in question, I do agree that the promethean sandbox family is the weakest. This is the part of the sandbox I would miss the least. Especially the BoltShot and Suppressor.

But from the looks of things, 343i where cut short in the development of this section. There where many other concepts, some of them even made it halfway into the game. Heres some examples: Stasis Rifle and Bishop Beam (that’ll be your Sentinel Beam, Ran) Burst Pistol (This would probably be a better alternative to the BoltShot)

I don’t think it would hurt if the Promethean side of the sandcastle was heavily remodeled, but overall I still think the sandbox in Halo 4 was outstanding. And in my opinion, they should keep the four marksman rifles in the next one. Regardless of what they do to loadouts.

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14

> Both, they run hand in hand. There’s no difficulty with using the SAW, and it kills with ease.
>
> It doesn’t matter if the weapon can’t beat every other weapon in the game in every situation, that isn’t the definition of over powered. <mark>And saying, “It’s a power weapon, it’s supposed to be that powerful” is just as much BS</mark>.

Please explain further.

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15

> > Both, they run hand in hand. There’s no difficulty with using the SAW, and it kills with ease.
> >
> > It doesn’t matter if the weapon can’t beat every other weapon in the game in every situation, that isn’t the definition of over powered. <mark>And saying, “It’s a power weapon, it’s supposed to be that powerful” is just as much BS</mark>.
>
> Please explain further.
>
> Ψ

Would you like the Target locator to be placed on maps, or a MAC strike? This is really self-explaining when you think about it.

16

> > > Both, they run hand in hand. There’s no difficulty with using the SAW, and it kills with ease.
> > >
> > > It doesn’t matter if the weapon can’t beat every other weapon in the game in every situation, that isn’t the definition of over powered. <mark>And saying, “It’s a power weapon, it’s supposed to be that powerful” is just as much BS</mark>.
> >
> > Please explain further.
> >
> > Ψ
>
> Would you like the Target locator to be placed on maps, or a MAC strike? This is really self-explaining when you think about it.

Actually a target locator may not be so outlandish when/if 32 player games are introduced…

17

> > > > Both, they run hand in hand. There’s no difficulty with using the SAW, and it kills with ease.
> > > >
> > > > It doesn’t matter if the weapon can’t beat every other weapon in the game in every situation, that isn’t the definition of over powered. <mark>And saying, “It’s a power weapon, it’s supposed to be that powerful” is just as much BS</mark>.
> > >
> > > Please explain further.
> > >
> > > Ψ
> >
> > Would you like the Target locator to be placed on maps, or a MAC strike? This is really self-explaining when you think about it.
>
> Actually a target locator may not be so outlandish when/if 32 player games are introduced…

Yes, yes it would be outlandish. More players does not justify the ability to nuke the map. Screwing around on RP maps or in custom games is the only justification for nuking the map.

18

> > > > > Both, they run hand in hand. There’s no difficulty with using the SAW, and it kills with ease.
> > > > >
> > > > > It doesn’t matter if the weapon can’t beat every other weapon in the game in every situation, that isn’t the definition of over powered. <mark>And saying, “It’s a power weapon, it’s supposed to be that powerful” is just as much BS</mark>.
> > > >
> > > > Please explain further.
> > > >
> > > > Ψ
> > >
> > > Would you like the Target locator to be placed on maps, or a MAC strike? This is really self-explaining when you think about it.
> >
> > Actually a target locator may not be so outlandish when/if 32 player games are introduced…
>
> Yes, yes it would be outlandish. More players does not justify the ability to nuke the map. Screwing around on RP maps or in custom games is the only justification for nuking the map.

Seeing as how the maps would theoretically be bigger, I don’t see an issue with adding weapons that have bigger radius’.

19

> > > > > > Both, they run hand in hand. There’s no difficulty with using the SAW, and it kills with ease.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It doesn’t matter if the weapon can’t beat every other weapon in the game in every situation, that isn’t the definition of over powered. <mark>And saying, “It’s a power weapon, it’s supposed to be that powerful” is just as much BS</mark>.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please explain further.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ψ
> > > >
> > > > Would you like the Target locator to be placed on maps, or a MAC strike? This is really self-explaining when you think about it.
> > >
> > > Actually a target locator may not be so outlandish when/if 32 player games are introduced…
> >
> > Yes, yes it would be outlandish. More players does not justify the ability to nuke the map. Screwing around on RP maps or in custom games is the only justification for nuking the map.
>
> Seeing as how the maps would theoretically be bigger, I don’t see an issue with adding weapons that have bigger radius’.

It is a point and click weapon that is extremely deadly and takes no thinking to use. I’d sooner advocate for the Havok nukes from Halo PC be brought into the game, even for 32 players.

20

> > > > > > > Both, they run hand in hand. There’s no difficulty with using the SAW, and it kills with ease.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It doesn’t matter if the weapon can’t beat every other weapon in the game in every situation, that isn’t the definition of over powered. <mark>And saying, “It’s a power weapon, it’s supposed to be that powerful” is just as much BS</mark>.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please explain further.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ψ
> > > > >
> > > > > Would you like the Target locator to be placed on maps, or a MAC strike? This is really self-explaining when you think about it.
> > > >
> > > > Actually a target locator may not be so outlandish when/if 32 player games are introduced…
> > >
> > > Yes, yes it would be outlandish. More players does not justify the ability to nuke the map. Screwing around on RP maps or in custom games is the only justification for nuking the map.
> >
> > Seeing as how the maps would theoretically be bigger, I don’t see an issue with adding weapons that have bigger radius’.
>
> It is a point and click weapon that is extremely deadly and takes no thinking to use. I’d sooner advocate for the Havok nukes from Halo PC be brought into the game, even for 32 players.

You sure about Havok nukes? I don’t even think the locator is as deadly as a Havok nuke.