The Unofficial ( J.i.p. ) Thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I’m going to say HALO 5 will 100% have JIP

Lets talk about ways to fix JIP / how you feel it should work so that people don’t hate it.

Here is simple list of a few easy to follow Rules:

RULE 1 If a friend invites me to JOIN a game they are already in ie JIP I SHOULD ONLY JOIN HIS/HER TEAM not the other team, If that spot has been filled a message should pop up and say party is full.

RULE 2 JIP should NEVER SPLIT A Team/Party that is searching together.
If we can’t all be on the same team then fine just let us keep searching

  • about not splitting up teams. Your team wont get split up but that will slow down your matchmaking time. If me and my friends just want a match as fast as possible and don’t care about getting split up we should have that option.-

RULE 3 If i lag out of a game and my team invites me back i should ONLY be able to join the TEAM I WAS ON in the first place other wise don’t let me join at all. And have a massage pop up saying party is full

RULE 4 If you start a game out 6v6 or 3v3 and then 2 people join 1 team well maybe you should also add 2 people to the other team as that’s the ONLY reasonable thing to do - game’s should never be 8v6 or 5v3 from start to end

RULE 5 I should be able to invite Someone NO MATTER HOW MUCH TIME IS LEFT IN THE GAME

RULE 6 No quitting at the voting screen: Incredibly important. One of the problems with JIP is the prevalence of it. A big part of this is that games start with uneven teams any time someone backs out at the voting menu

RULE 7 Quitting penalties: Quitting needs to be discouraged. EXP & XP per Playlist in HALO 3 helped It has a negative impact on everyone in the game except for the person quitting. That is a perverse incentive and needs to be fixed. Screen for habitual quitters so people with a rare internet issue or a UPS delivery at the front door don’t get penalized. Creating games with good connections is also important for this to be viable. Can’t expect people to stay in games that are unplayable.

RULE 8 Quitters are most likely to get JIP: Let the people that are creating the problem bear the burden of it. If they continue to quit out of JIP games, then the measures from step 2 kick’s in. This also creates an incentive not to quit.

RULE 9 The Further into a Game You Are, the Closer it has to Be: Well progressed games give you less time to influence the game. Similar leads also become more dominant when there is less time to overcome them. If you have to be within ten kills at the beginning of a game, then you should have to be within five kills or something half way through the game. Just throwing numbers out there for illustrative purposes. By no means proposing those exact numbers.

  • should be able to invite anyone at any point in time if there is a spot open-

MORE TO COME

If you can think of any other ideas to fix JIP in HALO 5 post them here.

2

This is from another thread, but I figured I would add it to this discussion too.

  1. No quitting at the voting screen: Incredibly important. One of the problems with JIP is the prevalence of it. A big part of this is that games start with uneven teams any time someone backs out at the voting menu

  2. Quitting penalties: Quitting needs to be discouraged. It has a negative impact on everyone in the game except for the person quitting. That is a perverse incentive and needs to be fixed. Screen for habitual quitters so people with a rare internet issue or a UPS delivery at the front door don’t get penalized. Creating games with good connections is also important for this to be viable. Can’t expect people to stay in games that are unplayable.

  3. Quitters are most likely to get JIP: Let the people that are creating the problem bear the burden of it. If they continue to quit out of JIP games, then the measures from step 2 kick in. This also creates an incentive not to game whatever system of quit penalties is imposed.

  4. Never JIP Twice in a Row: You shouldn’t have to play for half an hour before you get a game that is actually yours. Never more than once prevents it from being onerous on one person or dominating their game play experience.

  5. The More you get JIP the less likely you are to get JIP: People that are carrying a heavy JIP burden should be weighted in such a way that they are unlikely to get it again. Someone with 4 JIP in ten games should be less likely to get it than someone with 2 in ten games.

6)The Further into a Game You Are, the Closer it has to Be: Well progressed games give you less time to influence the game. Similar leads also become more dominant when there is less time to overcome them. If you have to be within ten kills at the beginning of a game, then you should have to be within five kills or something half way through the game. Just throwing numbers out there for illustrative purposes. By no means proposing those exact numbers.

  1. JIP Games Can Only Help Your In Game (hopefully) Ranking: Make JIP an opportunity instead of a burden. Right now people complain that it drags your CSR down. Make it so JIP at worst is a net of zero on your CSR (which will hopefully have a much better system in Halo 5). That makes JIP a zero risk proposition that people can be excited about.

  2. Personal Ordinance Problem: JIP gives you zero progress towards your first power weapon when you join in. Other players may already have their first weapon. It creates a situation where you can be hopelessly outgunned even if you would outperform the other team on a level playing field. I’m in favor of removing personal ordinance, but in game types that include it you need to implement some kind of compensation.

  3. There are three kinds of people: Those who can count, and those who can’t.

JIP is a good thing. In an eight man game, the one person that just joined in has a suboptimal experience. The other seven people are provided a better experience than they otherwise would have had. Clearly that is a situation where much more good than harm is being done.
The problem right now is with the specifics of implementation. You can get it too many times in a short period. There is too much need for it because of games starting without full teams and the lack of disincentives to quitting.
JIP is also implemented too often in games where it is a lost cause. The JIP is too little, too late. It benefits neither the person getting JIP or the seven people that he joined.
Implementing steps to reduce the prevalence of JIP, flatten out statistical variance, and ensure that it is used only when it is for the betterment of the game will emphasize the positive aspects of the system for seven people while minimizing the negative aspects for the one person out of eight.

3

very nice i will try and fit it in the OP but some might have to go here

will post when i get more then 10 min free

THX

4

  • If you quit a match, you cannot rejoin the same match. Too many times has a player (or two) quit the match, rejoined 30 seconds later, quit the match again, rejoined again 30 seconds later, and this continues for the entire match leaving one team permanently down a player or two. Not to mention annoying the player(s) that quit the match for whatever reason.

  • No join in progress on matches that are landslides. For example 250-20, especially if the winning team is a large party.

Also, we need either a proper, functioning, obvious lobby system similar to that of Call of Duty or Crysis or Halo’s classic system of giving players plenty of chance to back out or stick with the current group. None of this five seconds and you’re locked into the match crap.

5

I think the best way to make JIP better is to give the player more options.

For example: On rule 2 about not splitting up teams. Your team wont get split up but that will slow down your matchmaking time. If me and my friends just want a match as fast as possible and don’t care about getting split up we should have that option.

That’s the thing about JIP. The more rules you put in place to make sure you get put in a good match the more you slow down your matchmaking time.

6

Return it as a search preference maybe?

I see some of your ideas make it almost player controlled but I should be able to choose whether or not I want to join games in progress instead of quitting or dashboarding straight away.

Other than that, I haven’t much else to contribute because you’ve covered my main gripes.

7

> Return it as a search preference maybe?
>
> I see some of your ideas make it almost player controlled but I should be able to choose whether or not I want to join games in progress instead of quitting or dashboarding straight away.
>
> Other than that, I haven’t much else to contribute because you’ve covered my main gripes.

The benefits of JiP are primarily received when you aren’t the one that got joined into the game. That means that for any one individual, it is good for him to opt out. Unfortunately, if every individual opts out, then it is bad for each individual.

That means that the only way to gain the benefits of JiP is to regulate it. Its a classic example of a positive externality.

8

rule 1 and rule 2 have a problem:
rule 1: if you play a 8 vs 8 match and red team has 8 players left and blue team has 7 players left.
that means 1 player from blue team invite a friend to join him but that has a problem.
if red team has a guest that also quits then you have 2 spots free in red team and when the member from blue team invite a friend to join his team then you have a big chance he joins red team.
then the system from halo put him in red team to make it a 7 vs 7 match and thats is not good news for the blue team member.

rule 2 problem: if you are looking in a party for a match then is the system looking for 3 spots left in a match that means you have big chance that 2 members from the party join red team and the other joins blue team.

that are the small problems with rule 1 and rule 2 that i have found.

my rule suggestion is:
that each player most not stay long then 1 min on the same place.
if they stay longer then 1 min on the same place then they most be kick out of the match and pay a small price for it.
how much time’s you do it how big the price becomes.

same for quitters.
1 time quit is noting.
second quit at the same time warning.
3 time a ban from matchmaking for 1 hour or longer.
and if you quit to much like 10 time’s then you have more a permanent ban from matchmaking and that the company looks if the ban most stay or not?

9

JIL: Join in lobby.

If players quit in the pre-game lobby don’t wait until the game has started before you JIP people in. Do it in the lobby. Maybe even delay the start slightly until people join as well.

10

The first idea was alright but the second one is “out there”. What if the person has kids, or has to do things around the house. Banning people may result in a lower population than H4 in which H3 pop is about to surpass.Also inactivity for 5 mins should have you kicked from the gamer but, also for a match you should be reverted back to the matchmaking lobby main menu. For quitting, the players rank decreases and eventually wil end up taking armor away. (Sort of like H3).

11

Honestly, I’d do this:

If you are JiP, you gain a bonus for at least finishing the match. If you win, the game counts as a rank(assuming playlists are set up as they are now). If you lose, it counts as a “social” match and Kills and Deaths will not be reflected upon your profile. However, Commendations can still be ranked up.

This way, JiP’d players don’t get mad for looking bad at the match and get something for sticking around, the team getting a player JiP’d in will get their reinforcements, the matches stay full, and we don’t get to play Halo: Hide and Seek Evolved.

Everyone wins. Teh Edn.

12

I agree with probably everything you said.

I think JIP is a great addition to Halo, but it currently needs some improvements.

And should returned on Halo 5. And work much better.

I think if we have RANK and Social Playlist in Halo 5, JIP should only work for the Social Playlists and be disabled in the RANK Playlist.

13

> I agree with probably everything you said.
>
> I think JIP is a great addition to Halo, but it currently needs some improvements.
>
> And should returned on Halo 5. And work much better.
>
> I think if we have RANK and Social Playlist in Halo 5, JIP should only work for the Social Playlists and be disabled in the RANK Playlist.

I wouldn’t knock it out entirely. I’d say make it work for the lobby, and keep it open until a certain time period has passed. Just in case you have those jerks who just pop in and turn their Xbox off when they don’t get what they want.

I’m ok with it after the lobby is out.

14

> Honestly, I’d do this:
>
> If you are JiP, you gain a bonus for at least finishing the match. If you win, the game counts as a rank(assuming playlists are set up as they are now). If you lose, it counts as a “social” match and Kills and Deaths will not be reflected upon your profile. However, Commendations can still be ranked up.
>
> This way, JiP’d players don’t get mad for looking bad at the match and get something for sticking around, the team getting a player JiP’d in will get their reinforcements, the matches stay full, and we don’t get to play Halo: Hide and Seek Evolved.
>
> Everyone wins. Teh Edn.

What if you do really well, and go 50 kills 0 deaths, and your team just sucks. And you lose.

This would still be stats I would like to be kept.

15

> > Honestly, I’d do this:
> >
> > If you are JiP, you gain a bonus for at least finishing the match. If you win, the game counts as a rank(assuming playlists are set up as they are now). If you lose, it counts as a “social” match and Kills and Deaths will not be reflected upon your profile. However, Commendations can still be ranked up.
> >
> > This way, JiP’d players don’t get mad for looking bad at the match and get something for sticking around, the team getting a player JiP’d in will get their reinforcements, the matches stay full, and we don’t get to play Halo: Hide and Seek Evolved.
> >
> > Everyone wins. Teh Edn.
>
> What if you do really well, and go 50 kills 0 deaths, and your team just sucks. And you lose.
>
> This would still be stats I would like to be kept.

I guess it could just pop up on the game history, for the sake of keeping players from just AFK-ing for bonuses, but it wouldn’t actually affect your stats since its a JiP.

To me, the worst thing about the current system is that we have no choice but to take it like a “champ” and accept a loss. It simply tries to keep your score accurate by keeping incomplete games out, especially when they have a tendency to be really lop-sided in this series of games when your team is down.

We can go with “What ifs” forever, but it is much more important to get rid of the main issues: What to do with quitters, and what to do with those that join that would make them ok with what they got.

16

Well this was my idea, which i just noticed you commented on. Pausing the game if the ratio falls below 4:1 until players join to make it 4:3.
I got mixed reviews (mainly because people don’t like JIP all together), but that was just my idea. :slight_smile:

17

I think the easiest and most reliable solution to JIP would be to implement a Karma System that dictates the following:

The more you quit, the more you JIP!

Also, regardless of how many times you’ve quit, the next match after a quit will be a JiP that puts you in a losing game :slight_smile:

18

> I think the easiest and most reliable solution to JIP would be to implement a Karma System that dictates the following:
>
> The more you quit, the more you JIP!
>
> Also, regardless of how many times you’ve quit, the next match after a quit will be a JiP that puts you in a losing game :slight_smile:

That would not be a good idea, imo.

What if I quit because I got too many people on my team griefing, and would much rather quit and play another match than to deal with them?

JiP needs to be something all sides benefit, not worry. That is not how it should be done.

19

  1. Make it an OPTION. When I go into Matchmaking, I want to start FRESH, not in the middle of battle.

  2. ONLY JiP before the first 5 kills, or first 30 seconds.

  3. Only find games that have X amount of people missing on one team.
    ex: Team Slayer: Red = 4, Blue = 3, JiP
    Red = 4, Blue = 1, NO JiP

  4. In the stats, show how many times a person JiP, how many wins they got because of it, and how many losses they received because of it.

20

I think the easiest fix would be to just make it a search preference that the player can set.

Quitters is the bigger problem. I say we should take H3 as an example (when quitting was a minimal problem) EXP penalties, no matter whether it’s habitual or not. Every time you quit, you get a standard EXP penalty.

Of course, I think the whole performance based ranking system causes a lot of quitters. As is, if you are having a bad game, you can just quit and the EXP lost from that game you know you can just get back again next game. If you have to win, then there is no guarantee that you can get that EXP back in the next game or the next 5 games even.