<Edit> With 343i making community preffrred changes in terms of the weapon balance, this thread or topic in general is on a hold. Let’s hope the changes 343i bring will be the first step in many into the balancing of Halo 4 in order to bring back the good old days. A game where balance exists. For those who the current style appeals to can enjoy Infinity. But to ensure that some old fans or just those who enjoy balanced gameplay are appealed to this game, the revival of classic settings will have to persist. (Legendary Slayer)
It takes 5.5 seconds to empty the full clip for the BR, compared to the DMR’s 4 seconds.
Both the BR and DMR reload at exactly the same speed.
Reloading in the middle of a clip for either weapon reloads faster.
The BR has 144 bullets with max ammo, while the DMR has 56 bullets at max ammo. Due to the BR’s three shot bursts, that means that it has the equivalent of 48 shots which is 8 less than the DMR.
Damage and Weapon Use
Switching to and from either the BR or the DMR takes the same amount of time. (1 second without dexterity, 0.5 seconds with dexterity)
The BR zooms in 2x normal view, compared to the DMR zooming in 3x normal view.
When zoomed in the the BR, the area around the scope is significantly darker than the DMR making it harder to have as much situational awareness.
The BR has a muzzle climb with each shot that does not reset after you stop shooting, compared to the DMR which has no muzzle climb at all.
The BR is significantly worse at destroying vehicles than the DMR. Tested against a Mongoose, standing at equal distance and shooting at the same spot on the right front tire, the BR took 2.5 clips (21 shots) to destroy the vehicle completely compared to the DMR which took 1.75 clips (24 shots).
Both the DMR and the BR ignore vehicle armor. Firing at both the armored front of the mongoose and the exposed unarmored back yielded exactly the same results as above.
The DMR is slightly better at destroying base shields than the BR is. Tested against a small dominion shield, the BR took 1.5 clips (21 shots) to destroy the shield compared to the DMR which took 1.25 clips (18 shots) to destroy the shield.
Both the DMR and the BR take 3 shots to destroy an auto sentry.
Tested using a pillar and two pulse grenades on top, and at a range of 70m. The DMR is significantly more accurate at long range than the BR. Both weapons have equal accuracy at mid and short range. (its worth noting that grenades explode when shot.)
The BR’s bullets deviate slightly from the center of the crosshair, compared to the DMR which has no deviation.
The BR and the DMR can both detonate grenades by shooting them. The Assault rifle and its brethren cannot do this.
Against live Spartans (Special thanks to Spartan A178 “Flyinglion” and his clone, L083 for their role as test subjects)
Both the BR and DMR take 4 shots, regardless of where on the body, to disable shields on a Spartan.
Both the BR and the DMR take 3 bodyshots to kill an unshielded Spartan.
Movement speed is reduced significantly more when shot by the BR than with the DMR.
Both the DMR and the BR require 8 shots to disable shields on the Mantis. Although its worth noting that on the final shot with the BR, only the first bullet is required to disable the shield and the second and third both deal damage to the unshielded Mantis.
The DMR is slightly better at the destroying the Mantis than the BR. Firing all 56 bullets from a DMR will set the Mantis on fire, compared to firing all 144 bullets from the BR which leave the Mantis smoking but not ignited. Also noting that it requires two additional clips from the BR to put the Mantis in an ignited state.
So my conclusion is this:
The DMR has a larger clip, fires faster, hits harder per bullet, and has more ammo. Its better against vehicles than the BR, better at long range, and equal at mid range. The BR’s slow-down effect gives it an advantage at close range, allowing you to slow your opponent and gain distance from them that, when facing an Assault Rifle, might otherwise mean your death with a DMR…
The DMR is for killing and offense, the BR is for harassment and defense.
I think you touched on it all, good solid points. It reinforces my views, the BR is a good weapon, the DMR has the edge though. The BR has a smaller niche with less versatility in other aspects than others. I thought it’d be worthy to note that without the scope kickout bloom can be negated easier with the DMR’s longer scope sight. That allows it faster firing with less chance to miss and increases ttk by quite a bit.
“The BR is significantly worse at destroying vehicles than the DMR. Tested against a Mongoose, standing at equal distance and shooting at the same spot on the right front tire, the BR took 2.5 clips (21 shots) to destroy the vehicle completely compared to the DMR which took 1.75 clips (24 shots).”
You should mention here that “significantly worse” is with respect to time. DMR(24 shots) is greater than BR(21 shots); I had to read this twice to recognize it.
Otherwise thank you for support for your argument; you are far ahead of 90% of people who post here.
By the flaw in his results, his final conclusion is completely wrong.
He’s re-demonstrated a point that’s already been shown over and over again… the BR and DMR have exactly the same effect on other players. Same damage, same time to kill.
His results against vehicles were inconsistant and material were inconsistant, and so is the conclusion based on that. If anything, his results have shown that the BR is better against vehicles and material… which means that (with the BR and DMR being a tie against spartans), the BR is the better overall weapon.
And that refutes what is the commonly held belief in these sorts of posts.
I wish there was someone to place the numeric value on aim assist and bullet magnetism. I believe the DMR has slightly less aim assist up close but more bullet magnetism than the BR (meaning that there is less autoaim but only the edge of your reticule has to be on somebody’s head to get a headshot rather than the full reticule).
I think for noobs and casual players, this weapons sandbox is very balanced (except for the carbine which sucks to any kind of player).
But for skilled players who would have a rank of 30+ if this game had Halo 3’s ranking system, the slightly less aim assist on the DMR makes no difference, thus making it the most powerful weapon.
Bloom does not actually exist on the DMR. It is a visual aesthetic that only tried to make it harder to aim for the final headshot if you are fully bloomed. Your shot will always land in the center of the reticule.
This + the massive bullet magnetism it has makes this weapon the most powerful of the starting weapons. It is only surpassed by fully automatics at melee range (since all shots from an automatic has to hit).
Though the Light Rifle has faster killtimes at a distance, it has less aim assist/bullet magnetism at a distance and also kicks like a mule when you get shot while in scope.
Thus the DMR reigns supreme against all other starters except at melee range, where automatics have the advantage.
I smell a nerf on the way. 343 only has to look at the data its gathered on how many people use the weapon. You really don’t have to even examine the science to know that the DMR is the most powerful. Just look at all the people who use it most of the time.
> By the flaw in his results, his final conclusion is completely wrong.
>
> He’s re-demonstrated a point that’s already been shown over and over again… the BR and DMR have exactly the same effect on other players. Same damage, same time to kill.
>
> His results against vehicles were inconsistant and material were inconsistant, and so is the conclusion based on that. If anything, his results have shown that the BR is better against vehicles and material… which means that (with the BR and DMR being a tie against spartans), the BR is the better overall weapon.
>
> And that refutes what is the commonly held belief in these sorts of posts.
Except not.
The DMR kills anything faster than the BR at all ranges. The majority of the debate is over how dominant the DMR is at long range and over whether the BR or DMR is easier to use at close-mid range.
The DMR is the better gun in the hands of skilled players.
You have two equally skilled players (basically clones of one another) duke it out and the DMR will pretty much always win.
That is evidence enough that it is OP.
To balance the weapons, the DMR needs to be dominant at long distance (but not by as much as it is now), the DMR and BR need to be equal at mid range (as does the carbine and light rifle) and the BR should be dominant between close-mid range.
This is the ideal outcome that will have the most people using the largest variety of weapons and not one will be dominant.
> > By the flaw in his results, his final conclusion is completely wrong.
> >
> > He’s re-demonstrated a point that’s already been shown over and over again… the BR and DMR have exactly the same effect on other players. Same damage, same time to kill.
> >
> > His results against vehicles were inconsistant and material were inconsistant, and so is the conclusion based on that. If anything, his results have shown that the BR is better against vehicles and material… which means that (with the BR and DMR being a tie against spartans), the BR is the better overall weapon.
> >
> > And that refutes what is the commonly held belief in these sorts of posts.
>
> Except not.
>
> The DMR kills anything faster than the BR at all ranges. The majority of the debate is over how dominant the DMR is at long range and over whether the BR or DMR is easier to use at close-mid range.
>
> The DMR is the better gun in the hands of skilled players.
>
> You have two equally skilled players (basically clones of one another) duke it out and the DMR will pretty much always win.
>
> That is evidence enough that it is OP.
>
> To balance the weapons, the DMR needs to be dominant at long distance (but not by as much as it is now), the DMR and BR need to be equal at mid range (as does the carbine and light rifle) and the BR should be dominant between close-mid range.
>
> This is the ideal outcome that will have the most people using the largest variety of weapons and not one will be dominant.
The DMR and BR take the exact same number of trigger pulls to kill, and those trigger pulls take exactly the same amount of time… thus they are exactly the same in terms of how quickly they kill… EXACTLY THE SAME.
The only difference here is that the DMR is better at long ranges (beond the effective range of the BR), but that is offset by the requirement for greater accuracy close up. Statistically, within the effective range of the BR, there is no statistical difference between the two weapons.
> What about Light Rifle and Covenant Carbine vs DMR and BR.
The Light Rifle is the most powerful and capable long-range semi-auto when scoped in. It’s weaker than the DMR and BR when un-scoped.
The CC is… difficult to describe… it’s the weakest SA, but it fires the fastest and has the largest mag. Time to kill is not inconsistant with DMR and BR, but it needs more actual hits/trigger pulls, so greater accuracy and fire control are needed to be as effective.
Well some are saying that the BR and DMR have equal kill times. The BR only needs to land the 1st shot of it’s 5th burst to kill with a head shot.
As a member previously stated, the bloom seems to be just a visual component rather than an actual mechanic. When I try to pace my shots I always get killed by the worst of players just spamming their trigger.
For those wondering about the kill times, have a look at this post. It is very informative.
> The DMR and BR take the exact same number of trigger pulls to kill, and those trigger pulls take exactly the same amount of time… thus they are exactly the same in terms of how quickly they kill… EXACTLY THE SAME.
>
> The only difference here is that the DMR is better at long ranges (beond the effective range of the BR), but that is offset by the requirement for greater accuracy close up. Statistically, within the effective range of the BR, there is no statistical difference between the two weapons.
You are forgetting that the DMR shots faster. Therefore, guess what… The DMR wins hands down.
The Dmr win’s hand down. Whenever i face a person using the Battle Rifle. I always get my last shot of a full second before they get there’s of. Basically i rip them a new one everytime. The only time I loose is when the guy has an ungodly strafe. Even then he only beat’s me 1 out of 5 time’s we meet. If i can doge one of his shot’s. I can get one off, then a second one at the same time he get’s his next shot off.