> > As you can tell by his attitude, I’m sure it’s not the type to cower away behind a glorified bodyguard.
>
> So having a puppet that can lead entire armies and bring about the destruction of the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy and yet remaining far enough away to ensure you can fight another day is cowardice?
>
> Seriously?
Yes. It’s precisely how the Covenant works. The highest ranking sangheili, the brains of the army lead the charge while his minions follow.
Perfect examples are the Prophets. Those aliens were chicken s**t.
Or it’s smart, strategic thinking.
> > > As you can tell by his attitude, I’m sure it’s not the type to cower away behind a glorified bodyguard.
> >
> > So having a puppet that can lead entire armies and bring about the destruction of the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy and yet remaining far enough away to ensure you can fight another day is cowardice?
> >
> > Seriously?
>
> Yes. It’s precisely how the Covenant works. The highest ranking sangheili, the brains of the army lead the charge while his minions follow.
That’s exactly how the President of the United States or the Prime Minister of Great Britain works. All of our Leaders, Generals and Admirals stay behind in order to oversee the Military while the Soldiers do the real work on the battlefield.
> > > > As you can tell by his attitude, I’m sure it’s not the type to cower away behind a glorified bodyguard.
> > >
> > > So having a puppet that can lead entire armies and bring about the destruction of the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy and yet remaining far enough away to ensure you can fight another day is cowardice?
> > >
> > > Seriously?
> >
> > Yes. It’s precisely how the Covenant works. The highest ranking sangheili, the brains of the army lead the charge while his minions follow.
>
> That’s exactly how the President of the United States or the Prime Minister of Great Britain works. All of our Leaders, Generals and Admirals stay behind in order to oversee the Military while the Soldiers do the real work on the battlefield.
Different societies, different methods. It could be anything. Using everything we’ve seen about TO, I personally believe he would not need any sort of puppets. Considering there is no evidence for one anyway.
> > There’s no concrete proof of the Timeless One being a Gravemind.
>
> When Mendicant Bias tested Installation 05, his installation, in the Charum Harkkor system, the ring’s pulse destroyed every Precursor structure on the planet, including the Timeless One’s Arena. The Timeless One was then taken to Bias’ Installation for study; Both Delta Halo and Mendicant Bias disappeared soon after, not to return for 43 years. This occurred the exact same time Bias was first sent to converse with the Gravemind for 43 years. Later during the Forerunner Flood War, The Timeless One used the Palace Of Pain as his stronghold, located on Installation 05, Mendicant’s Ring.
>
> Bias spoke with the Gravemind for 43 years before turning itself rampant, (Much like the humans who communicated with the Timeless One who committed suicide.) And defecting to the Flood. After doing so, Bias claimed to serve a “new master”. As the test at Charum Harkkor, the release of the prisoner, the communication and rampancy timeline match exactly. It is almost impossible for this new master to not be the Gravemind/the Timeless One.
Where did you get the number installation 05? how do you know it was 05? is this just speculation please reply
> > > > > As you can tell by his attitude, I’m sure it’s not the type to cower away behind a glorified bodyguard.
> > > >
> > > > So having a puppet that can lead entire armies and bring about the destruction of the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy and yet remaining far enough away to ensure you can fight another day is cowardice?
> > > >
> > > > Seriously?
> > >
> > > Yes. It’s precisely how the Covenant works. The highest ranking sangheili, the brains of the army lead the charge while his minions follow.
> >
> > That’s exactly how the President of the United States or the Prime Minister of Great Britain works. All of our Leaders, Generals and Admirals stay behind in order to oversee the Military while the Soldiers do the real work on the battlefield.
>
> Different societies, different methods. It could be anything. Using everything we’ve seen about TO, I personally believe he would not need any sort of puppets. Considering there is no evidence for one anyway.
We haven’t seen or learned anything about the Timeless One yet because he never actually appeared in Halo Cryptum. Everything about him in the story was hearsay and speculation. From what we have gathered from what we have heard so far we have formed the opinion that he is indeed the Gravemind but it’s still speculation.
It was never said if the Humans fought and defeated a Gravemind. At the End of Cryptum the Didact says that the Flood now has a new master and he says so while he speaks of the supposed Precursor. The Timeless One also escaped onto Mendicant Bias’ Halo Ring around the same time he was suppose to communicate with the Gravemind.
Like I said, it’s speculation but so far there is more evidence for it than against it.
> > > There’s no concrete proof of the Timeless One being a Gravemind.
> >
> > When Mendicant Bias tested Installation 05, his installation, in the Charum Harkkor system, the ring’s pulse destroyed every Precursor structure on the planet, including the Timeless One’s Arena. The Timeless One was then taken to Bias’ Installation for study; Both Delta Halo and Mendicant Bias disappeared soon after, not to return for 43 years. This occurred the exact same time Bias was first sent to converse with the Gravemind for 43 years. Later during the Forerunner Flood War, The Timeless One used the Palace Of Pain as his stronghold, located on Installation 05, Mendicant’s Ring.
> >
> > Bias spoke with the Gravemind for 43 years before turning itself rampant, (Much like the humans who communicated with the Timeless One who committed suicide.) And defecting to the Flood. After doing so, Bias claimed to serve a “new master”. As the test at Charum Harkkor, the release of the prisoner, the communication and rampancy timeline match exactly. It is almost impossible for this new master to not be the Gravemind/the Timeless One.
>
> Where did you get the number installation 05? how do you know it was 05? is this just speculation please reply
It hasn’t been made official but it has been implied. Delta Halo had strange archaic ruins on it with Forerunner structures built around them. It’s speculated that these are actually Human ruins and they’re there because in Primordium the Master Builder brought Humans to the facility to experiment on them. That and the Timeless One is on the facility in an area referred to as “The Palace of Pain” and since people believe he is the Gravemind in some way then this is the same area you meet the Gravemind in Halo 2.
thanks
what about halo origins and what it summarizes?
it is just cortana’s speculation, and even though it has some important errors
(humans plus ALL covenant against flood instead of a three way)
Just throwing something else into the mix.
> what about halo origins and what it summarizes?
>
> it is just cortana’s speculation, and even though it has some important errors
> (humans plus ALL covenant against flood instead of a three way)
>
>
>
> Just throwing something else into the mix.
There’s nothing contradictory to this idea in Origins.
I hate to be the Killjoy here, but the Timeless One is not the Gravemind. They might be related, but are not the same. The Gravemind was around when the Halos fired, since it corrupted Mendicant Bias. The Timeless One was imprisoned while the Gravemind was in the Forunner’s base, killin their dudes.
> I hate to be the Killjoy here, but the Timeless One is not the Gravemind. They might be related, but are not the same. The Gravemind was around when the Halos fired, since it corrupted Mendicant Bias. The Timeless One was imprisoned while the Gravemind was in the Forunner’s base, killin their dudes.
The Timeless One was released during the ‘test fire’ of Installation 05 on Charuum Harkkor. This was long before the actual firing of the Halo Array. And as I posted earlier, Mendicant communicates with TO for 43 years, then defects to the flood. He is described as doing the same with the Gravemind. It’s basically a given.
I would say we will find out when Primodorioum is released (sorry for my bad spelling.) We don’t know much about the Precursors yet, so hopefully Greg can shed some light on the next book.
This thread raises some interesting ideas, i especially like the one saying that the gravemind is acting as a “proxy” for the timeless one. I think that he is not showing himself out in the open for a simple reason:
To cite an interesting piece of work: “the devils greatest trick was to convince the world that he didn’t exist”. Now, if everyone though the flood are done, that they have been destroyed, who is going to watch their back.
He is simply bidding his time preparing something to replace the flood to achieve his objective.
I think that the timeless one is the precursor to the precursor’s, he is preparing their re-entry into the milky way galaxy.
Also, the idea that the flood was created by the precursors raises some understandable concerns:
does that mean that they were a “prototype”? That we might discover the finished version, (not the the flood 2.0 of course) with a release date of 2553?
Gravemind is constructed from flood forms and bodies(living or dead). The gravemind can also be reconstructed after another has been destroyed. It would make sence that the “Timeless One” is not the gravemind but maybe controls the gravemind.
The Halo 3 Beastiary elaborated that a Gravemind is a result of a flood hive mind becoming complex enough to think. That there could be multiple. Theorycraft, I assume; chances are there’s only been the one as far as the Forerunners know.
This theory works. That said, I don’t enjoy it. It’s too simple. I would not want the story to be as simple as “the flood are mindless slaves of the Timeless One, that is a mindless slave of the Precursors.”
The Timeless One being some form of aberration is quite plausible. Truth be told, he seems too monstrous to be a norm for an advanced species. Personally, I also maintain that it’s quite plausible that he’s a liar.
> The Halo 3 Beastiary elaborated that a Gravemind is a result of a flood hive mind becoming complex enough to think. That there could be multiple. Theorycraft, I assume; chances are there’s only been the one as far as the Forerunners know.
>
> This theory works. That said, I don’t enjoy it. It’s too simple. I would not want the story to be as simple as “the flood are mindless slaves of the Timeless One, that is a mindless slave of the Precursors.”
>
> The Timeless One being some form of aberration is quite plausible. Truth be told, he seems too monstrous to be a norm for an advanced species. Personally, I also maintain that it’s quite plausible that he’s a liar.
I enjoy this theory because of it’s simplicity. It would perfectly connect the novels and the books, while shedding more light on the oh so mysterious Flood.
This mirrored composite is interesting:
http://www.halopedian.com/images/thumb/b/b9/Ancientthreatmirror.jpg/640px-Ancientthreatmirror.jpg
The head fits this description:
Precursors are described as “very large”, with 4 upper limbs and 2 legs. Also having an “ugly head shaped like arthropods” - like spiders or crabs - they have oval, faceted slanted eyes and a “flat face”. Coming from the back of the head is a long tail with a 2 meter barb coming out of it. Whether this is the way all Precursors look has yet to be revealed, but this is the way the prisoner on a Pre-Human world is described.
“Each hand had three fingers and a central opposable thumb”.
“The face of a Precursor has been likened to that of a eurypterid, or “sea scorpion,” a creature that the Precursors had allegedly seeded on a number of planets. Their heads were flattened, with oval compound eyes and (presumably) mandibles or similar mouth parts.”
Note that the Eurypterid’s head is very similar to what we appear to see in the composite picture. The hands, too, fit the description. The interesting thing is the “mechanical armour”, which maybe suggests TO may not be a true Precursor (or maybe, like the Forerunner’s the Precursor’s wore armour).
This brings me to another theory, that the Forerunner’s armour, and their habit of wearing it, derives from their uprising against the Precursors, the armour being used as a means to shield themselves from the neural control/power of the Precursors.
I think The Flood is the ancient enemy, as 343 Guilty Spark refers to the flood as this, unless 343i did this to throw us off or something?