The State of Halo 4's Weapon Sandbox

Games Other Halo
1

Now in case you haven’t seen the new proposed weapon settings here they are blogs.halowaypoint.com/Headlines/post/2013/04/17/The-Halo-Bulletin-41713.aspx

Edit: Weapons update 4.24.13
http://blogs.halowaypoint.com/Headlines/post/2013/04/24/The-Halo-Bulletin-42413.aspx

Edit: Weapons update 5.1.13
http://blogs.halowaypoint.com/Headlines/post/2013/05/01/The-Halo-Bulletin-5113.aspx

Edit: Weapon update 5.8.13
http://blogs.halowaypoint.com/Headlines/post/2013/05/08/The-Halo-Bulletin-5813.aspx

Edit: Weapon update 5.15.13
http://blogs.halowaypoint.com/Headlines/post/2013/05/15/The-Halo-Bulletin-51513.aspx
Warthog and Mantis Chain guns are getting a 35% increase in damage.

Edit: Weapon Tuning Live Stream
http://www.twitch.tv/343industries/b/404748451

343i in a nut shell said what they want to try and do is instead of nerfing the DMR into oblivion they will bring the other weapons (BR, Carbine, and autos) up to its level. 4sk BR, 7sk Carbine, and autos with a slight damage buff but up to a 50% reduction in auto-aim.
Now I and many others say this is wonderful news. But on the other hand some of your say this is stupid and the DMR should just be nerfed and the other weapons left alone. I ask, why? Look at these stats of guns though out the series in rank of how fast they kill:

CE Magnum- 0.6 sec
H4 Light Rifle (at least one scoped shot)- 1.4 sec
H2 BR- 1.43 sec
H4 DMR- 1.47 sec
H3 BR- 1.53 sec

Reach DMR- 1.6 sec
H4 Carbine- 1.63 sec
H4 BR- 1.73 sec
H4 Light Rifle (all unscoped)- 1.77 sec

I wanted to post these to compare Halo 4’s weapons to the rest of the series on a kill time basis (aim assist and magnetism is a whole different issue which I will briefly touch on shortly) and as you can see the Halo 4 DMR ranks 3rd on the all time list. The Light Rifle actually kills faster, we had a stronger and better weapon with Halo 2’s BR and its not that much better than the H3 BR. But then you look at the H4 Carbine and BR and they suck in comparison to everything we’ve had before, hell they kill slower than the Reach DMR. Why would you want that? I don’t get it.

Here are the kill times that the proposed changes would make:

BR- 1.4-1.6 sec
Carbine- 1.4
AR- 1.15-1.35 sec
Storm Rifle- 1.15-1.35 sec
Suppressor- 1.03-1.10 sec
*Note the autos would have up to a 50% reduction in auto aim
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxfXkJ8Y8ng

So many of you complain about Halo changing too much and this is some thing that will get us in a closer state of familiarity. So I’m surprised to see so many against this.

Now my only issue is that aim assist and magnetism is a little too high and it should be brought down a tad across the board. I say across the board because despite want some of you may think Aim Assist is similar on all the rifles and the Carbine actually has more magnetism. It just seems like the DMR has more of both than the other rifles because of how powerful it is in comparison.

Also the DMR’s RRR is too high and should be brought down to what the LR is. But that is the only nerf it should get and its kill time should remain intact. Here are the stats on Halo 4’s RRRs:

Unscoped Scoped
DMR- 38.4 meters 114.8 m
LR- 30.6 meters 91.5 m
BR- 30. 6 meters 61.2 m
Carbine- 30.6 meters 61.2 m

Edit: Bravo has mentioned that they are currently testing bringing down the DMR’s RRR slightly and buffing the LR’s to that new medium, so basically they are going to meet half way. I find this to be an acceptable change and better than what we currently have.

A lot of the information I just provided including current kill times, aim assist, and RRRs can be found here:
www.halocouncil.com/community/index.php?/topic/12399-r-the-halo-utility-weapon-thread-by-duji-and-k2five/

Now I’m for these changes because it will quicken the pace of matches, but not to levels that are unfitting of Halo. Also it will raise the skill gap and will reward skilled players for better positioning and maneuvering. I’m really not good at this though so to help me lay it out for you here are some vids that will put in better perspective. As an added bonus I will even present vids of the opposing view.

Pro-Buffs:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=x114wCp3j88
www.youtube.com/watch?v=299vvphtiAE
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI-ueyxgRQI
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p0Fml89J9w (this is a 1hr and 40 min vid that has a lot of good stuff if your into the competitive scene. They talk about weapons specifically at around 26 min)

Anti-buffs/Pro-DMR nerf:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFEoMO0pc7k
www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z54yt9L9jx4

2

Thanks for sharing all that…will take a while to get through!

I support the changes 343i are proposing to do…including the RRR increase to the LR. The BR will be more than a match for the DMR now on small 4v4 maps. It will be useful at midrange now and, the DMR, should still be dominant at long distance. However, who would still use the DMR when the LR will be 4sk and have the same RRR?

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Intriguing. I am for the record very happy with the proposed update

4

This is on my list of things that will bring the game out of a beta state:

  1. Weapon Balance
  2. CSR
  3. De-scope when shot
  4. X Map marker on death
  5. Sprint as a loadout ability only
  6. Remove Ordinance
  7. Theatre mode

So its one more step towards being worthy of being called a Halo game.

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> This is on my list of things that will bring the game out of a beta state:
>
> 1. Weapon Balance In progress
> 2. CSR met halfway
> 3. De-scope when shot No information, don’t hold your breath
> 4. X Map marker on death In game, just needs more time to be visable
> 5. Sprint as a loadout ability only Hard wired into the game, impossible
> 6. Remove Ordinance There are playlists that already do that
> 7. Theatre mode In game for the most part
>
> So its one more step towards being worthy of being called a Halo game.

Color coded responses

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> > This is on my list of things that will bring the game out of a beta state:
> >
> > 1. Weapon Balance In progress I am skeptic. I believe they are going to mess up.
> > 2. CSR met halfway It’s not working.
> > 3. De-scope when shot No information, don’t hold your breath
> > 4. X Map marker on death In game, just needs more time to be visable Yes.
> > 5. Sprint as a loadout ability only Hard wired into the game, impossible No.
> > 6. Remove Ordinance There are playlists that already do that
> > There’s still no Classic Multiplayer.
> > 7. Theatre mode In game for the most part No. Anyone who doesn’t have live can’t use the feature.
> >
> > So its one more step towards being worthy of being called a Halo game.
>
> Color coded responses

7

> Thanks for sharing all that…will take a while to get through!
>
> I support the changes 343i are proposing to do…including the RRR increase to the LR. The BR will be more than a match for the DMR now on small 4v4 maps. It will be useful at midrange now and, the DMR, should still be dominant at long distance. However, who would still use the DMR when the LR will be 4sk and have the same RRR?

You’re welcome! But I disagree with you and 343i on increasing the RRR of the LR to what the DMR is. The DMR has too much range and it makes long range combat a little too easy and it slows down movement on the bigger maps. The LR has the perfect amount of range and it allows it to be a capable long range weapon without stifling map movement. It would be beneficial to the game if the DMR got a RRR nerf.

To answer your question, plenty of the people would still use the DMR if they shared the same RRR. It has a faster rate of fire and is more accurate.

8

Good topic +1

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> Good topic +1

Thx

10

Wow, nice job OP. :slight_smile:

11

Im thinking they should let us do weapon tuning in custom games

12

I’m for the buffing of other weapons. Everything else feels so slow right now. Glad to see this being done.

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> Thanks for sharing all that…will take a while to get through!
>
> I support the changes 343i are proposing to do…including the RRR increase to the LR. The BR will be more than a match for the DMR now on small 4v4 maps. It will be useful at midrange now and, the DMR, should still be dominant at long distance. <mark>However, who would still use the DMR when the LR will be 4sk and have the same RRR?</mark>

The DMR was intended to be a jack-of-all trades, but instead of just working at every range it dominated at every range (Except for very close). Now, it will be as it was intended, which is just a multi-purpose rifle that isn’t the best at a particular role, but it definitely isn’t bad.

14

> But on the other hand some of your say this is stupid and the DMR should just be nerfed and the other weapons left alone. I ask, why?

Because it makes a -Yoink- ton more sense to nerf the one problem weapon rather than change the entire game around it.

15

That is so damn true. IMHO the weapons are already far too OP. I know things have evolved since H3 (which was the best MM game of the series) and that they need to continue to evolve, but the stronger the weapons, the less skill it takes to get kills. Right now the BR is already super strong, especially with its bleed-through element. Furthermore, the increased strengths to other weapons to create balance will then result in even less skill required to kill. Making the DMR less powerful and leaving the rest alone makes so much more sense it’s almost incomprehensible that they wouldn’t just do that.

Also, I think they broke things badly initially by not including any sort of reasonable bloom effect. Spamming beats pacing far too often under the current settings.

Finally, I’d like to also add that I think the death cam should either be fixed or done away with entirely. While I know enough to ignore it at this point, it still gets pretty annoying a few hours into a long session, having watched myself die hundreds of times to people “missing” their shots by 50ft. Heck, most of the time it resembles the auto-headshot modding videos on youtube.

BTW nice job OP

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Favorited. Well prepared, sir. I look forward to the changes and believe they will play out to everyone’s satisfaction.

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They are actually reducing the range of dmr slightly and increasing the lr to the same, so basically they will meet halfway between what their current ranges are.

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> > But on the other hand some of your say this is stupid and the DMR should just be nerfed and the other weapons left alone. I ask, why?
>
> Because it makes a Yoink! ton more sense to nerf the one problem weapon rather than change the entire game around it.

Actually, I prefer the changes being made. I want a faster game; I want weapons that kill faster; this change makes more weapons appealing whereas I would not have cared if it was only the DMR that was changed.

19

> Favorited. Well prepared, sir. I look forward to the changes and believe they will play out to everyone’s satisfaction.

Thanks, I appreciate that and I’m very much looking forward to the updates too.

20

> That is so damn true. IMHO the weapons are already far too OP. I know things have evolved since H3 (which was the best MM game of the series) and that they need to continue to evolve, but the stronger the weapons, the less skill it takes to get kills. Right now the BR is already super strong, especially with its bleed-through element. Furthermore, the increased strengths to other weapons to create balance will then result in even less skill required to kill. Making the DMR less powerful and leaving the rest alone makes so much more sense it’s almost incomprehensible that they wouldn’t just do that.
>
> Also, I think they broke things badly initially by not including any sort of reasonable bloom effect. Spamming beats pacing far too often under the current settings.
>
> Finally, I’d like to also add that I think the death cam should either be fixed or done away with entirely. While I know enough to ignore it at this point, it still gets pretty annoying a few hours into a long session, having watched myself die hundreds of times to people “missing” their shots by 50ft. Heck, most of the time it resembles the auto-headshot modding videos on youtube.
>
> BTW nice job OP

Except the BR isn’t a strong weapon right now. Also you mentioned that H3 was your favorite even though it had comparably stronger weapons, which is something you are saying you’re against. Plus we are not talking about increasing the kill times to CoD’s level we are talking about making them like what Halo should be and all of this will increase the skill gap not lower it.

P.S. More bloom is a bad idea.