The sprint polls mean nothing.

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Why you ask? Well, there are two main reasons.

  1. Most people who participate in the polls have no idea what they are talking about. The community is not made up of game design experts or even Halo gameplay experts for that matter. Game design is not a democracy. If the professionals at 343 think sprint makes the game play better, I disagree, but that is their prerogative. The only thing I can do is leave feedback and not buy the game. However, citing a community poll to justify the decision is laughable. Even if the poll came back 70% against sprint, it would mean nothing.

  2. Specifically in regards to sprint I am of the opinion that the overwhelming majority of Halo players do not understand the subtle effects sprint has on other aspects of the game(elongation of maps, increased average encounter distance, lessened emphasis on melees/nades/close range weapons, etc, etc). All they see is the surface layer effect of being able to move faster. There is also a familiar comfort in sprint because it is such a common mechanic in the FPS genre. Again this comes with the often overlooked fact that Halo has significantly longer kill times than those other games and therefor sprint has different effects on Halo’s sandbox than it does on those games’ sandboxes. I am also of the opinion(this is important) that the subtle effects sprint has that people do not understand is what is causing them to not enjoy the game. So, people are in fact voting for the inclusion of a mechanic that is unknowingly making them not enjoy the game. People enjoy moving faster, but they don’t enjoy elongated maps, increased average encounter distance, lessened emphasis on melees/nades/close range weapons, etc, etc. They are just unable to link these things to sprint due to a lack of game understanding.

So, please defend your stance on a mechanic based on your opinions of said mechanic, not based on meaningless results of community polls.

“Before, I thought there was no reason not to have sprint in the game, that it did nothing but add to the gameplay. I was dead wrong, but I still remember those thoughts. After being made aware of the negative impacts that spring has on gameplay, map design, and weapon balance, I changed my mind. These things were not obvious to me. They were subtle. I would not have noticed them, if I was not looking for them. But they made the game boring, less exciting, monotonous. These are things I did not notice right from the start, and now I knew why. The point is, I wasn’t being stupid for not realizing the indirect effects that sprint had on the gameplay. I wasn’t being inherently stupid when I defended sprint. I just didn’t know, and that’s what OP is trying to say. People don’t realize how sprint effects the game, because it’s very indirect. But there is a reason people didn’t enjoy the game, and it’s more than bad decisions like ordinance and perks”

-Some guy in this thread

The only reason you should add anything to a game is if you as the developer enjoy the mechanic and it can be balanced.

In my opinion there is no other consideration. If I were working at 343 that’s all the consideration I’d take unless it somehow nerfed the original 3 gameplay pillars irreparably. (Like for example getting to throw like 1 weak grenade a life while being equipped with a grenade launcher at launch to replace that ability)

And actually the polls do mean something. They gauge how much the community, based on actual scientific results, likes or hates sprint. If 90% of people had consistently said in these polls that sprint was the bane of their existence then they’d be making a product that nobody liked and therefore would have to change the game for risk of it failing.

> 2533274833380875;2:
> The only reason you should add anything to a game is if you as the developer enjoy the mechanic and it can be balanced.
>
> In my opinion there is no other consideration. If I were working at 343 that’s all the consideration I’d take unless it somehow nerfed the original 3 gameplay pillars irreparably. (Like for example getting to throw like 1 weak grenade a life while being equipped with a grenade launcher at launch to replace that ability)
>
> And actually the polls do mean something. They gauge how much the community, based on actual scientific results, likes or hates sprint. If 90% of people had consistently said in these polls that sprint was the bane of their existence then they’d be making a product that nobody liked and therefore would have to change the game for risk of it failing.

First off I am genuinely surprised that the first response was not from the F5 warrior, the shatinator lol.

The polls do not reflect how much the community likes or hates sprint. It reflects how much an uneducated mass of people like the most surface layer effect of sprint.

> 2535438961934440;3:
> > 2533274833380875;2:
> > The only reason you should add anything to a game is if you as the developer enjoy the mechanic and it can be balanced.
> >
> > In my opinion there is no other consideration. If I were working at 343 that’s all the consideration I’d take unless it somehow nerfed the original 3 gameplay pillars irreparably. (Like for example getting to throw like 1 weak grenade a life while being equipped with a grenade launcher at launch to replace that ability)
> >
> > And actually the polls do mean something. They gauge how much the community, based on actual scientific results, likes or hates sprint. If 90% of people had consistently said in these polls that sprint was the bane of their existence then they’d be making a product that nobody liked and therefore would have to change the game for risk of it failing.
>
>
> First off I am genuinely surprised that the first response was not from the F5 warrior, the shatinator lol.
>
> The polls do not reflect how much the community likes or hates sprint. It reflects how much an uneducated mass of people like the most surface layer effect of sprint.

They will come, they always do.

As for uneducated masses, it really doesn’t matter. Our place here is to create a thread on some wacky and crazy idea like 64 player multiplayer and just give ideas in general. That’s what a community does and uneducated or not, if the developer and the community’s ideas coincide then the mechanic should be put in.

Development isn’t a democracy, but that doesn’t mean the people can’t form opinions. The effect on gameplay is irrelevant, let the developer figure that out. It’s a video game, not a car that has to follow some manufacturing instructions.

> 2533274833380875;4:
> > 2535438961934440;3:
> > > 2533274833380875;2:
> > > The only reason you should add anything to a game is if you as the developer enjoy the mechanic and it can be balanced.
> > >
> > > In my opinion there is no other consideration. If I were working at 343 that’s all the consideration I’d take unless it somehow nerfed the original 3 gameplay pillars irreparably. (Like for example getting to throw like 1 weak grenade a life while being equipped with a grenade launcher at launch to replace that ability)
> > >
> > > And actually the polls do mean something. They gauge how much the community, based on actual scientific results, likes or hates sprint. If 90% of people had consistently said in these polls that sprint was the bane of their existence then they’d be making a product that nobody liked and therefore would have to change the game for risk of it failing.
> >
> >
> > First off I am genuinely surprised that the first response was not from the F5 warrior, the shatinator lol.
> >
> > The polls do not reflect how much the community likes or hates sprint. It reflects how much an uneducated mass of people like the most surface layer effect of sprint.
>
>
> They will come, they always do.
>
> As for uneducated masses, it really doesn’t matter. Our place here is to create a thread on some wacky and crazy idea like 64 player multiplayer and just give ideas in general. That’s what a community does and uneducated or not, if the developer and the community’s ideas coincide then the mechanic should be put in.
>
> Development isn’t a democracy, but that doesn’t mean the people can’t form opinions. The effect on gameplay is irrelevant, let the developer figure that out. It’s a video game, not a car that has to follow some manufacturing instructions.

Im not sure what you are trying to say.

Your opinion means nothing.

Oooo burn baby!

Ahem, on topic, the majority likes sprint. The polls don’t lie. Deal with it.

The best we can hope for right now is that they MAYBE add a playlist without sprint or spartan abilities , even that’s not going to happen though I think.

I would argue that sprint polls don’t matter because most people don’t care one way or the other. Of all the millions of fans only a small minority care about sprint whether they are pro or anti sprint.

As long as players feel like they are getting where they need to go in a timely matter, I don’t think most people care how they end up doing it. Everyone just wants to play a fun game and I don’t think it would be unusual for anyone to enjoy multiple types of games for completely different reasons.

My issue is that some people have declared no-sprint unworkable without any concrete evidence. Its all circumstantial nonsense like “well the top selling game has sprint”, “look how many games have sprint”. Every Halo game without sprint has been successful, if Halo 3 had been the start of the downward trend I might have been more inclined to accept arguments that modern audiences demand sprint but it simply hasn’t been the case.

We have not had a brand new, fully featured traditional Halo game for 8 years to conclusively prove anything one way or the other. Polls and focus groups do not always tell the full story.

> 2533274823069762;6:
> Your opinion means nothing.
>
> Oooo burn baby!
>
> Ahem, on topic, the majority likes sprint. The polls don’t lie. Deal with it.

The majority likes the surface layer of sprint and is unaware of the deeper effects. Therefor, the polls mean nothing. individuals who can articulate their feelings in an educated manner do.

So, go on, articulate…

I was sampled in the poll, and I started Halo on CE and have put countless hours into each game, except Halo 4 which was the first Halo game I walked away from. I have maintained ~2.0 k/d across each Halo game. I am far from the best Halo player, but consider myself competitive and skilled. I hated sprint in both Reach and Halo 4. I am a prime candidate to have disliked sprint in Halo 5.

But I liked sprint in Halo 5, and I voted as such. I like the changes 343 have made to sprint. 343 directly addressed my #1 issue with sprint, which was that the long TTK made disengaging from combat too easy with sprint. Sprint fundamentally altered how combat unfolded, and it pretty much killed the strafe dance 1v1 moments. But not so in Halo 5.

Furthermore, I am actually a fan of having risk reward opportunity to my movement. I find it engaging. It reminds me of pulling out my knife in counter strike. You gain a movement advantage at the risk of not having your weapon at the ready.

> 2535438961934440;1:
> 2. Specifically in regards to sprint I am of the opinion that the overwhelming majority of Halo players do not understand the subtle effects sprint has on other aspects of the game(elongation of maps, increased average encounter distance, lessened emphasis on melees/nades/close range weapons, etc, etc).

  • Elongated maps don’t bother me whatsoever. Time to engage in H5 beta was fine imo.
  • Increased average encounter distance is something I prefer in Halo. Mid-long range is the norm across Halo titles except for perhaps Halo 3.
  • I have never been a cqb player, and I have always treated melee as a situational tool. And I used grenades non stop in the beta… I found no de-emphasis there.

> 2533274819446242;8:
> I would argue that sprint polls don’t matter because most people don’t care one way or the other. Of all the millions of fans only a small minority care about sprint whether they are pro or anti sprint.
>
> As long as players feel like they are getting where they need to go in a timely matter, I don’t think most people care how they end up doing it. Everyone just wants to play a fun game and I don’t think it would be unusual for anyone to enjoy multiple types of games for completely different reasons.
>
> My issue is that some people have declared no-sprint unworkable without any concrete evidence. Its all circumstantial nonsense like “well the top selling game has sprint”, “look how many games have sprint”. Every Halo game without sprint has been successful, if Halo 3 had been the start of the downward trend I might have been more inclined to accept arguments that modern audiences demand sprint but it simply hasn’t been the case.
>
> We have not had a brand new, fully featured traditional Halo game for 8 years to conclusively prove anything one way or the other. Polls and focus groups do not always tell the full story.

I agree with a lot of your points.

I also think there are numerous ways to implement a “sprint” mechanics besides the way COD has popularised. Games lie perfect dark and time splitters went about it in much different ways than COD did. These ways would fit into Halo much more smoothly.

The decision has already been made (and explained) to retain Sprint in the game, continuing to make threads against it seem quite…redundant.

> 2610345319735860;10:
> I was sampled in the poll, and I started Halo on CE and have put countless hours into each game, except Halo 4 which was the first Halo game I walked away from. I have maintained ~2.0 k/d across each Halo game. I am far from the best Halo player, but consider myself competitive and skilled. I hated sprint in both Reach and Halo 4. I am a prime candidate to have disliked sprint in Halo 5.
>
> But I liked sprint in Halo 5, and I voted as such. I like the changes 343 have made to sprint. 343 directly addressed my #1 issue with sprint, which was that the long TTK made disengaging from combat too easy. That fundamentally altered how combat unfolded, and it pretty much killed the strafe dance 1v1 moments. But not so in Halo 5.
>
> Furthermore, I am actually a fan of having risk reward opportunity to my movement. I find it engaging. It reminds me of pulling out my knife in counter strike. You gain a movement advantage at the risk of not having your weapon at the ready.
>
>
>
> > 2535438961934440;1:
> > 2. Specifically in regards to sprint I am of the opinion that the overwhelming majority of Halo players do not understand the subtle effects sprint has on other aspects of the game(elongation of maps, increased average encounter distance, lessened emphasis on melees/nades/close range weapons, etc, etc).
>
>
> - Elongated maps don’t bother me whatsoever. Time to engage was fine imo.
> - Increased average encounter distance is something I prefer in Halo. Its the norm accross Halo titles except for perhaps Halo 3.
> - I have never been a cqb player, and I have always treated melee as situational tool.

Im obviously not talking about one person in particular. Im sure there are some people who understand the effects and enjoy them. That’s fine. Are you going to sit here and tell me most people who take these polls understand all these effects?

> 2603643534586909;12:
> The decision has already been made (and explained) to retain Sprint in the game, continuing to make threads against it seem quite…redundant.

I have never ever seen 343 explain the inclusion of sprint by speaking to the mechanics.

They didn’t speak mechanics specifically, but did mention that there are reasons why it’s included in the game. It’s in the game, nothing is changing that.

> 2535438961934440;11:
> > 2533274819446242;8:
> > I would argue that sprint polls don’t matter because most people don’t care one way or the other. Of all the millions of fans only a small minority care about sprint whether they are pro or anti sprint.
> >
> > As long as players feel like they are getting where they need to go in a timely matter, I don’t think most people care how they end up doing it. Everyone just wants to play a fun game and I don’t think it would be unusual for anyone to enjoy multiple types of games for completely different reasons.
> >
> > My issue is that some people have declared no-sprint unworkable without any concrete evidence. Its all circumstantial nonsense like “well the top selling game has sprint”, “look how many games have sprint”. Every Halo game without sprint has been successful, if Halo 3 had been the start of the downward trend I might have been more inclined to accept arguments that modern audiences demand sprint but it simply hasn’t been the case.
> >
> > We have not had a brand new, fully featured traditional Halo game for 8 years to conclusively prove anything one way or the other. Polls and focus groups do not always tell the full story.
>
>
> I agree with a lot of your points.
>
> I also think there are numerous ways to implement a “sprint” mechanics besides the way COD has popularised. Games lie perfect dark and time splitters went about it in much different ways than COD did. These ways would fit into Halo much more smoothly.

As much as the constant droning you have about sprint seems almost troll-worthy at times, I am glad that you have suggested a replacement mechanic this time.

But you’re also referencing games that didn’t even have a jump button, which could stir up its own thread if people were so caught up in that idea like they are with sprint.

At this point, testing a game that plays exactly like Halo 2 or 3 did with a reskin and new engine/modern looks/etc without sprint would not end the hate - not only because it’s been done (H2A, which was well received aside from the problems in MCC and lack of maps aka no new maps to test the theory), but also because the gaming climate is different. You can’t replicate everything that made 2 or 3 such huge successes and expect identical numbers in population simply for performing the same tasks or quality as previous titles. Heck, the whole world economy has tanked and rebounded since then, and the gaming industry has been turned on its head more than once with different money-grubbing ideas (superfluous dlc, pay to win, sub standard AAA titles with copied mechanics, etc) since then.

If Halo as a series ever hit the pop. numbers of 3 again, it wouldn’t be from 1 single game mechanic (sprint) being in or out of the game. There is no proof to argue that case in a modern setting with realistic population numbers, either.

So, while the thought of removing sprint or changing the way it performs entirely may or may not be justified to some people, at least leave these threads to die off in a different forum - Halo 5 will have sprint and arguing the sake of poll numbers won’t change that (if we shouldn’t believe the polls because I’ll informed people use them, why should we listen to a self entitled master of the topic with zero proof that doesn’t lie solely in the past?).

> 2535438961934440;13:
> Im obviously not talking about one person in particular. Im sure there are some people who understand the effects and enjoy them. That’s fine. Are you going to sit here and tell me most people who take these polls understand all these effects?

Clearly most people who took the poll liked sprint.

Which leads me to conclude that those subtle effects of sprint on other aspects of the game were not perceived as negative effects. Otherwise, people would have voted differently. Understanding the effects of sprint (or lack their of) does not change the fact that the end result was a positive playing experience for most people.

> 2603643534586909;15:
> They didn’t speak mechanics specifically, but did mention that there are reasons why it’s included in the game. It’s in the game, nothing is changing that.

We will see what happens if H5’s population bombs like H4’s did.

> 2535438961934440;18:
> > 2603643534586909;15:
> > They didn’t speak mechanics specifically, but did mention that there are reasons why it’s included in the game. It’s in the game, nothing is changing that.
>
>
> We will see what happens if H5’s population bombs like H4’s did.

Until then, there is no need for yet another Sprint thread.

> 2535438961934440;18:
> > 2603643534586909;15:
> > They didn’t speak mechanics specifically, but did mention that there are reasons why it’s included in the game. It’s in the game, nothing is changing that.
>
>
> We will see what happens if H5’s population bombs like H4’s did.

Yes, because MM population determines how successful a game is. How dare other people have a life and or play other equally good video games. No, I must give my cultish desire to one game. There are literally 100s of factors you have to account for before you get to say “Look at Halo 3’s population!!!”.