The sprint discussion thread

> 2535466914543129;1659:
> > 2535450900176268;1651:
> > > 2533274799306209;1641:
> > > It’s fine as is, I like sprint.
> >
> >
> > I wonder how many people like this would still feel this way if someone actually sat down with them and thoroughly explained all the effects sprint has on the game.
>
>
> I’ve seen this before yet every time someone says this they never go into detail.

Because it would take forever. The effects sprint has on the game are numerous, far reaching and sometimes obtuse and difficult to explain in a timely manner.

> 2535466914543129;1659:
> > 2535450900176268;1651:
> > > 2533274799306209;1641:
> > > It’s fine as is, I like sprint.
> >
> >
> > I wonder how many people like this would still feel this way if someone actually sat down with them and thoroughly explained all the effects sprint has on the game.
>
>
> I’ve seen this before yet every time someone says this they never go into detail.

Are you only willing to read the explanations if they’re all in one single post? Because they’ve been pointed out numerous times throughout this thread and you still seem oblivious to them.

I love the thrust, hate the sprint. Also, the Spartan charge is the dumbest idea since the Halo 4 load outs. There should at a minimum be a BR start / non sprint playlist

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

still nah

for me is too mutch better whitout sprint… but i think is impossible for 343 remove it… :frowning:

I’d rather sprint

> 2535440283237581;1478:
> After continuously seeing the same few arguments for Sprint’s inclusion, I thought I’d make a list of said arguments and the counters for each.
>
>
> > I like sprint, so it should stay.
>
>
> The most frustrating kind of comment to see, this one doesn’t even present any arguments. With no points to contend here, on to the next one.
>
>
> > Sprint is modern and innovative. Halo has to have it in order to keep up with other games.
>
>
> Noting the italicized words being mere buzzwords with no weight in an argument, this is a claim that Halo would otherwise decline in sales/population were it not for Sprint’s inclusion. Sprint is not a new development and is present in so many other FPS games that I wonder how anyone could use these words to describe it, yet they do. What’s more is that Halo’s sales and player retention without the mechanic were fine and there’s nothing I’ve seen that even suggests improvement in either regard with Sprint’s inclusion.
>
>
> > Halo needs to evolve. You just need to adapt or leave.
>
>
> Evolve? Putting aside the facade that any change is an improvement, how does Sprint constitute as a positive change?
>
> Adapt? The argument is whether or not Sprint is a positive addition to Halo’s formula, not whether or not any given player is good at using said addition. Before Sprint’s inclusion, players could move around optimally with their weapons at the ready. Players could move optimally while facing directions other than the way they were headed. That allowed so many more tactics than the restrictions applied while sprinting (have to face the direction you want to sprint, weapons/grenades are disabled) while still allowing ideal map traversal. Tactics like bouncing grenades to damage pursuers, back-pedaling/side-stepping while still firing at your opponent, etc.
>
> What tactics are available with Sprint that aren’t otherwise? What tactics do anti-Sprinters need to adapt to?
>
>
> > Sprint makes the game more fast-paced.
>
>
> Sprint makes players move faster, but with maps designed around the mechanic the advantages it offers are rendered moot (but the restrictions aren’t). It does make the movement speed at which you can fire your weapon slower in relation to map size, which can arguably slow the game’s pacing. How exactly are we to determine/quantify the pace, anyways?
>
>
> > In Halo, you’re a super-soldier. It only makes sense to sprint. They even do it in the novels and cutscenes.
>
>
> Realism, for lack of a better word, can only go so far before it becomes an impairment to how the game plays. It also makes sense for a super-soldier to go prone, pick up/throw objects, make obscene gestures, and dance to Gangnam Style if he/she so desired. Even if the goal was to make the gameplay mechanics a 100% accurate representation of Spartans’ abilities, wouldn’t we be able to move that fast in directions other than forward? Wouldn’t we be able to do so without lowering our weapons?
>
> In a video game, don’t you think how it plays is more essential than how “real” the game is? I certainly do.
>
>
> > Sprint has been in Halo for three games now. There’s no going back now.
>
>
> A constant base movement speed for both in and out of combat was in Halo for three games (four if you count ODST, which featured Campaign and Firefight) and that was changed (for some reason). Heck, with other FPS games that haven’t conformed to such a generic convention as Sprint (both DOOM and Overwatch are very well-received & Unreal Tournament’s on the way), it could very well give 343i the confidence to give the tried-and-true method another shot… especially since it never really failed Halo to begin with.
>
>
> > If you don’t like Sprint, then don’t sprint. Problem solved. You’ve got options to turn it off in custom games anyways, and that’s all you need.
>
> If you don’t like how something works, simply not using said thing doesn’t solve anything. If I don’t like grenades or jumping and I follow this logic, I stop using those assets/mechanics and am put at a disadvantage. It also doesn’t stop other players from using it, which means the negative effects are still present whether I use it or not.
>
> Options to turn off the mechanic doesn’t magically undo all of the effects it has on other aspects of the game. Things like map design, weapon damage, and aim-assist are all tuned with Sprint in mind. Even if maps are forged specifically for no-Sprint settings and weapon damage tables were modified to fit it all, that’s still just in custom games. There’s no matchmaking and there’s no ranking.
>
> I’d love for the next FPS Halo game to do away with Sprint (among other things) if only to give more fans a current-gen game that suits their tastes on this divisive matter.

> 2533274819567236;1662:
> > 2535466914543129;1659:
> > > 2535450900176268;1651:
> > > > 2533274799306209;1641:
> > > > It’s fine as is, I like sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > > I wonder how many people like this would still feel this way if someone actually sat down with them and thoroughly explained all the effects sprint has on the game.
> >
> >
> > I’ve seen this before yet every time someone says this they never go into detail.
>
>
> Are you only willing to read the explanations if they’re all in one single post? Because they’ve been pointed out numerous times throughout this thread and you still seem oblivious to them.

I actually listed and countered the seven most seen pro-Sprint arguments I’ve seen back on page 74. Now have it quoted on 84 as well (would’ve done it in this same comment, but my phone won’t allow it).

> 2535466914543129;1659:
> > 2535450900176268;1651:
> > > 2533274799306209;1641:
> > > It’s fine as is, I like sprint.
> >
> >
> > I wonder how many people like this would still feel this way if someone actually sat down with them and thoroughly explained all the effects sprint has on the game.
>
>
> I’ve seen this before yet every time someone says this they never go into detail.

343i’s Incompetent Game Design is Killing Halo
Everything wrong with Halo: Twitch Gameplay.
.
You’re welcome.

At the very minimum, there should be a playlist without sprint. Use smaller maps and increase player movement speed and it would be great.

> 2533274819567236;1662:
> > 2535466914543129;1659:
> > > 2535450900176268;1651:
> > > I wonder how many people like this would still feel this way if someone actually sat down with them and thoroughly explained all the effects sprint has on the game.
> >
> >
> > I’ve seen this before yet every time someone says this they never go into detail.
>
>
> Are you only willing to read the explanations if they’re all in one single post? Because they’ve been pointed out numerous times throughout this thread and you still seem oblivious to them.

Seriously, that’s a bit of a cop out. For instance, over the first ten pages of this tread (which is as much as I bothered to check), not a single explanation of sprint’s effects appeared. Instead, multiple apthetic posts along the lines of “they’ve already been said a million times” or “no point in explaining because you wouldn’t understand” appeared. For example, you had multiple posts back and forth with comedyshermit when they said they haven’t seen a single good argument against sprint. Instead of giving one, you just kept insisting that such arguments exist, and comedyshermit just doesn’t understand. You know, you had the opportunity to turn that into “explain why this is not a good argument”, but you didn’t.

The reality is that most people just take the attitude “the arguments are out there, I don’t need to explain”. But “go look for yourself” is not an argument at all, but is just a lazy effort to convince yourself that you’ve won the argument without putting any actual effort into it. Out of the people who try to say something, most only put half of the effort into actually making a thorough explanation. So sure, they arguments are out there. They’re just buried in thousands of pages of old forum threads where most “arguments” are lazy copouts.

If somebody asks you for an argument, it’s counterproductive for everyone to respond with “Oh, they’re out there. You’re just oblivious to them.” It doesn’t advance the discussion, it doesn’t make the person asking any more wiser, and it doesn’t advance your agenda in any way.

You see, the thing about the internet is that no matter how many times a thing gets explained, there are always people who haven’t heard about it. I used to be into the sprint debate, and I’ve done my fair share of trying to explain the negative effects of sprint on gameplay, but I just got tired of it because it’s exhausting. However, if I look back at my post history, I have a hard time finding an argument that thoroughly explains everything I would’ve wanted to say, even though I thought I was doing a good job. Not to mention many of my arguments have become obsolete as the implementation has changed. And to be perfectly honest, I find it incerasingly difficult to argue that sprint as it is implemented in Halo 5 is really bad for gameplay. It has been nerfed so much since Reach that I’d almost be ready to say that it has reached what I said some years ago: the only way to get rid of the negative effects of sprint is to nerf it to oblivion.

Anyway, I’m going to go out there and say that the number of good arguments made against sprint isn’t nearly as high as you would think it is, and all the ones that are genuinely good have been buried under piles of copouts, half-effort arguments, and plain silly arguments.

tsassi’s got a good point. There is indeed arguments for sprint but no one is bothering explaining passed the “it’s there, go find it I dont have to tell you why I dont have time” bs.

So allow me to chime in on an example. There are plenty of people who want small maps. But small maps are only balanced when the speed is set properly otherwise if someone is moving too fast, it breaks the map (Think of the OG midship, it’s cramped as hell) but it works in H2. Why? Because Halo 2 doesnt have sprint so players are moving at a slower pace. The people who want to play at this pace on Halo 5’s remake of midship cant because of two reasons. The map size has increased to accommodate sprint and the faster movement and playstyle and 2: Because of other things like clamber and thrust, the maps are warped around so playing classic on them doesnt feel right because such things werent present in halo 2 so there would be spots in the map that would likely be off limits without clamber (such as those nests in the red/blue rooms) and therefore affects gameplay.

I like this post.

> 2535440283237581;1668:
> > 2533274819567236;1662:
> > > 2535466914543129;1659:
> > > > 2535450900176268;1651:
> > > > > 2533274799306209;1641:
> > > > > It’s fine as is, I like sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I wonder how many people like this would still feel this way if someone actually sat down with them and thoroughly explained all the effects sprint has on the game.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve seen this before yet every time someone says this they never go into detail.
> >
> >
> > Are you only willing to read the explanations if they’re all in one single post? Because they’ve been pointed out numerous times throughout this thread and you still seem oblivious to them.
>
>
> I actually listed and countered the seven most seen pro-Sprint arguments I’ve seen back on page 74. Now have it quoted on 84 as well (would’ve done it in this same comment, but my phone won’t allow it).

I read your troll post and noticed that you don’t actually explain why sprint is bad you just talk -Yoink- about people who like it. And like I told someone in another post IF YOU WANT TO WALK BACKWARDS WHILE SHOOTING YOU STILL CAN!

Tsassi, I have explained some of sprints problems as they’re brought up throughout the thread and so have others here. In the case of wizecracker, he’s claimed to have been reading the whole thread, so he should have seen these explanations, but acts like he hasn’t.

What I don’t do, after having argued this for years, is just explain everything to people who say “it’s not a problem” or “just shut up already” (much how wizecracker does). Should someone come in saying “sprint works well because [insert reason here]” then I’ll explain why that’s wrong or if it’s a misconception if it indeed is.

If someone comes in and is genuinely curious about why sprint is bad for the game, then I may explain it to them as best I can (it would depend on my mood, given how long a post it would be). That rarely happens though and when someone does ask for an explanation, it’s too often preceded by a snarky comment toward anti-sprinters, which tells me they don’t actually care to learn, so I don’t care to teach them.

I read the title of this thread as “The removal of sprint will make Halo great again!” MHGA!

> 2533274819567236;1644:
> > 2535440264163925;1614:
> > > 2533274813551244;1612:
> > > Wow, just have to love how the anti-sprinters give detailed reasons for removal of sprint from Halo and what the pro-sprinters give you? Stop sprinting then!!1 Play something else!! I love sprint!! It’s just a video game (got to love this one :'D)!! I like to move faster!! Makes gameplay faster!!! Maps are great now!! Just joking, no one can say that last one…
> > > Also, all the “vets” that say that not all of them are anti-sprint, if you played bad in the previous games and still play bad, your opinion is quite less significant than a person who played well back then and can still play well in Halo 5.
> >
> >
> > I was very good at halo 3. I’m not as good at halo 5 but I still think it’s a better game. All of this whining means nothing. When halo 3 came out the forums were filled with nothing but complaining about how it was the worst game ever. It was endless threads about how the br spread was broken and people saying they were quitting halo. Now Halo 3 was the good old days. I GUARANTEE in 10 years people will talk about how halo 5 was the best game ever and say halo 8 is awful. Screencap this and repost this when halo 8 comes out. Sprint makes halo faster, what is bad about this? I can’t understand why people have a problem with sprint.
>
>
> In case you didn’t notice, people have been saying Halo 3 was “the good old days” for years. So, we’ll see in no more than five years. That doesn’t seem to be working for Reach or Halo 4, so why do you think it will happen for Halo 5? Also, why are you comparing Halo 3’s BR spread to Halo 5’s, sprint, lack of content, server issues, awful campaign, lack of party restrictions, OP automatics? Not to mention how people have been quitting Halo for the last six years, if you didn’t notice.
>
> You don’t understand why people have a problem with sprint because you didn’t read this topic. If you care to educate yourself, read through it.

Haven’t you seen the endless forums of Reach being the last good halo after the MoR DLC?

> 2535471109694535;1677:
> > 2533274819567236;1644:
> > > 2535440264163925;1614:
> > > > 2533274813551244;1612:
> > > > Wow, just have to love how the anti-sprinters give detailed reasons for removal of sprint from Halo and what the pro-sprinters give you? Stop sprinting then!!1 Play something else!! I love sprint!! It’s just a video game (got to love this one :'D)!! I like to move faster!! Makes gameplay faster!!! Maps are great now!! Just joking, no one can say that last one…
> > > > Also, all the “vets” that say that not all of them are anti-sprint, if you played bad in the previous games and still play bad, your opinion is quite less significant than a person who played well back then and can still play well in Halo 5.
> > >
> > >
> > > I was very good at halo 3. I’m not as good at halo 5 but I still think it’s a better game. All of this whining means nothing. When halo 3 came out the forums were filled with nothing but complaining about how it was the worst game ever. It was endless threads about how the br spread was broken and people saying they were quitting halo. Now Halo 3 was the good old days. I GUARANTEE in 10 years people will talk about how halo 5 was the best game ever and say halo 8 is awful. Screencap this and repost this when halo 8 comes out. Sprint makes halo faster, what is bad about this? I can’t understand why people have a problem with sprint.
> >
> >
> > In case you didn’t notice, people have been saying Halo 3 was “the good old days” for years. So, we’ll see in no more than five years. That doesn’t seem to be working for Reach or Halo 4, so why do you think it will happen for Halo 5? Also, why are you comparing Halo 3’s BR spread to Halo 5’s, sprint, lack of content, server issues, awful campaign, lack of party restrictions, OP automatics? Not to mention how people have been quitting Halo for the last six years, if you didn’t notice.
> >
> > You don’t understand why people have a problem with sprint because you didn’t read this topic. If you care to educate yourself, read through it.
>
>
> Haven’t you seen the endless forums of Reach being the last good halo after the MoR DLC?

Because most of this forum is casual, it’s pretty obvious that they would enjoy Reach.

Reach only had amazing custom games and a great forge. Thats where my memories are. Other than that everything else sucked.

> 2533274970658419;1678:
> > 2535471109694535;1677:
> > > 2533274819567236;1644:
> > > > 2535440264163925;1614:
> > > > > 2533274813551244;1612:
> > > > > Wow, just have to love how the anti-sprinters give detailed reasons for removal of sprint from Halo and what the pro-sprinters give you? Stop sprinting then!!1 Play something else!! I love sprint!! It’s just a video game (got to love this one :'D)!! I like to move faster!! Makes gameplay faster!!! Maps are great now!! Just joking, no one can say that last one…
> > > > > Also, all the “vets” that say that not all of them are anti-sprint, if you played bad in the previous games and still play bad, your opinion is quite less significant than a person who played well back then and can still play well in Halo 5.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I was very good at halo 3. I’m not as good at halo 5 but I still think it’s a better game. All of this whining means nothing. When halo 3 came out the forums were filled with nothing but complaining about how it was the worst game ever. It was endless threads about how the br spread was broken and people saying they were quitting halo. Now Halo 3 was the good old days. I GUARANTEE in 10 years people will talk about how halo 5 was the best game ever and say halo 8 is awful. Screencap this and repost this when halo 8 comes out. Sprint makes halo faster, what is bad about this? I can’t understand why people have a problem with sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > > In case you didn’t notice, people have been saying Halo 3 was “the good old days” for years. So, we’ll see in no more than five years. That doesn’t seem to be working for Reach or Halo 4, so why do you think it will happen for Halo 5? Also, why are you comparing Halo 3’s BR spread to Halo 5’s, sprint, lack of content, server issues, awful campaign, lack of party restrictions, OP automatics? Not to mention how people have been quitting Halo for the last six years, if you didn’t notice.
> > >
> > > You don’t understand why people have a problem with sprint because you didn’t read this topic. If you care to educate yourself, read through it.
> >
> >
> > Haven’t you seen the endless forums of Reach being the last good halo after the MoR DLC?
>
>
> Because most of this forum is casual, it’s pretty obvious that they would enjoy Reach.
>
> Reach only had amazing custom games and a great forge. Thats where my memories are. Other than that everything else sucked.

I know right. I don’t remember anyone at the time saying it was, but memories are pretty hazy.

Yea i agree keep the sprint button!