The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
16686

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> > Keep the sprint thrusters, grab up on, slide, all of that. Add other things too! I mean this makes the game more realistic and easy to move.
>
> “More realistic” doesn’t mean that it plays better. In fact, there are hundreds of posts proving that it doesn’t play better at all and is incredibly damaging to the game. I would argue that the ease of movement is not nearly as good as Halo 1-3’s, as those don’t require players to learn any button combos or press anything other than the right stick plus a few other, minor buttons. I swear I get hand cramps if I play Halo 5 for too long.

I’ll be honest that i did not like that they were automatic. Maybe button combos to activate these things, not like minor things.

16687

> 2533275031935123;16685:
> > 2535425010781404;16684:
> > Keep the sprint thrusters, grab up on, slide, all of that. Add other things too! I mean this makes the game more realistic and easy to move.
>
> “More realistic” doesn’t mean that it plays better. In fact, there are hundreds of posts proving that it doesn’t play better at all and is incredibly damaging to the game.

Do you mind linking a few? I’m going to need actual evidence to be convinced.

> 2533275031935123;16685:
> > 2535425010781404;16684:
> >
>
> I would argue that the ease of movement is not nearly as good as Halo 1-3’s, as those don’t require players to learn any button combos or press anything other than the right stick plus a few other, minor buttons. I swear I get hand cramps if I play Halo 5 for too long.

Yeah, Halo 2 definitely didn’t have button combos. It really isn’t hard to learn the extra buttons. Just tap “jump” again if you want to clamber(which can be set to automatic in setting so that you don’t have to learn that), tap sprint while you are airborne and aiming to stabilize(can also be put to automatic in setting so that you don’t have to learn), and thrust. Thrust shouldn’t be hard to learn because it functions like spartan abilities in H4, HR, and equipment in H3.

16688

I made a separate sprint topic but was told to come here with my post so ill reiterate what i had plus expand a little bit on it based on earlier replies.

Since sprint is a big obstacle for halo to get right ive thought of a way that might seem to work and might appeal to both sides of either having it or not at all.
Personally i grew up with halo and love the classic movement, its so simple and gives the developers an excuse to delve into other things to make gameplay interesting such as map design. There was once a time where precise crouch jumping, grenade boosting, gravity hammer launching and head stepping were a thing and seperated the noobs from the pros. Why take those interesting and innovative ideas away? The player made the maps come alive with how we interacted with them. With advanced movement we have now theres almost no innovation needed! There’s Nothing to separate the crowd or teach, and nothing to figure out and have fun with anymore if its just a simple grapple up and thruster over. Think again on map design, we had simple movements and complex maps with sandbox materials, now we have complex movements with simple wide open maps. You could say we’ve always had wide open maps but no sprint, ah thats where vehicles come to play, dont have a vehicle? better take cover! Need to get across the map? Take a mongoose. See adding full fledge sprint takes all these commodities we once used to now be degraded. I feel like there is so much more to add but ill let others join in because i need to get back to what could be a suggestion to having sprint but appealing to all parties.

Acceleration- This one action of the build up of speed based on how long the forward motion is commaned could be implemented.

This would have to go through quite the testing to get the amount of imput to acceleration ratio right but the fluidity of it could work, from walking to running speed to TOP speed, so there is a limit, based on how long foward is commanded. Most importantly THE WEAPON WILL STAY ACTIVE. There will be no pause between running and stopping even though there will be a difference in starting the run and top speed, this means constant gunplay engagement with constant movement like classic. I’m sure ill have more to add but for now tear this apart .
‐----------------------------
A reply to this brought out the point of halo 5 having complex jumps on certain maps that take skill to utilize effectively using sprint and thrusters. That just raises the question to what we want the focus on. Do these advanced movements really implement innovative movement, or are they just a crutch for what the map design gives us?

16689

Just get rid of spartan charge and do whatever. I’m tired of this awful function as a crutch for lower skills.

16690

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> Just get rid of spartan charge and do whatever. I’m tired of this awful function as a crutch for lower skills.

Spartan charge is just terrible

16691

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> > 2535421462541368;16689:
> > Just get rid of spartan charge and do whatever. I’m tired of this awful function as a crutch for lower skills.
>
> Spartan charge is just terrible

Do you remember when they made speed boost+spartan charge a 1 hit kill? That was the funniest gameplay ever

16692

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> > 2535425010781404;16690:
> > > 2535421462541368;16689:
> > > Just get rid of spartan charge and do whatever. I’m tired of this awful function as a crutch for lower skills.
> >
> > Spartan charge is just terrible
>
> Do you remember when they made speed boost+spartan charge a 1 hit kill? That was the funniest gameplay ever

lol yes!

16693

> 2533274795123910;16665:
> If you’ve ever claimed Halo need sprint to do good, then you’d better be prepared to answer why other games with no sprint aren’t doing bad, regardless of your own opinion of them.
> Not explaining why CSGO and Doom are doing good, just means you can’t explain wht Halo would do poorly without sprint.

CSGO has sprint, it’s called using a knife. It is a very big part of the game and changes the way people navigate around the map. If you ever think about taking away variable movement speed from CS, the entire community will burn you alive. DOOM’s base movement speed is way too high and the maps are very, very small. The same cannot be said for Halo. DOOM has a variation of sprint and it is called the Haste powerup. Variable movement speed is important for a multiplayer game as it adds an extra layer of skill that people have to master and refine, this separates the unskilled from the skilled. Reaching from point A to B before your enemy is a very valuable asset with the risk that it leaves you vulnerable to enemy fire. It is a fair trade-off and people should use it judiciously. Henceforth, I conclude that Sprint should stay.

16694

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> > Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> > arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitive halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> > Thoughts? :3
>
> A: Since the anti-sprint camp is only a section of the community it would not be the game everyone wants.
> B: There has never been a clear answer as to why people think two geared movement isn’t ‘competitive’. Nor do I consider competitiveness to be the be all and end all of Halo. It has a role, but that isn’t all halo is as h5 has shown to some degree.
> C: You call any position other than yours ‘absurd’ though you fail to demonstrate how.
> D: Loudly proclaiming that sprint has no place in ‘competitive’ halo is a claim, not an argument. You need to back up your claim if it is to be taken seriously.
> E: Halo 5 has map design problems, but they don’t really center around sprint. They center around size, spawning, blind corners, and lack of variety.
> F: As a Halo veteran with no distaste for sprint, this argument form ignorance that the loss of population overtime is due to sprint that has been flooding the forum of late is getting tiresome. You still have nothing to base the claim on. It is still the equivalent of walking into your kitchen in the morning and seeing a plate of French toast and assuming a unicorn with a glittering mane made it for you.

This. And I like sprint, also been playing since 01.

16695

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> DOOM has a variation of sprint and it is called the Haste powerup.

Halo has that too, it’s called Speed Boost. No one wanted to get rid of that, some people forget it even exists despite being here for 3 games now.

> 2535442765997359;16693:
> Reaching from point A to B before your enemy is a very valuable asset with the risk that it leaves you vulnerable to enemy fire. It is a fair trade-off and people should use it judiciously.

Without getting into the discussion of whether this specific trade off needs to exist or not, you just mentioned a game that has variable speed but doesn’t give you a trade off, because Haste allows you to keep shooting. The only ability that removes your ability to shoot is Rage, which is the equivalent of finding a sword or something.

So realistically, removing Sprint still leaves you with variable movement speed in the same vein as DOOM.

16696

> 2533274833081329;16695:
> > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > DOOM has a variation of sprint and it is called the Haste powerup.
>
> Halo has that too, it’s called Speed Boost. No one wanted to get rid of that, some people forget it even exists despite being here for 3 games now.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > Reaching from point A to B before your enemy is a very valuable asset with the risk that it leaves you vulnerable to enemy fire. It is a fair trade-off and people should use it judiciously.
>
> Without getting into the discussion of whether this specific trade off needs to exist or not, you just mentioned a game that has variable speed but doesn’t give you a trade off, because Haste allows you to keep shooting. The only ability that removes your ability to shoot is Rage, which is the equivalent of finding a sword or something.
>
> So realistically, removing Sprint still leaves you with variable movement speed in the same vein as DOOM.

I find it very interesting how you casually managed to ignore what I wrote about csgo and variable movement speed being an integral part of the game. You used my statement regarding Doom which is, for all intents and purposes, a backwater game with a nearly extinct community and chose to ignore the greatest FPS e-sport of all times, unmatched in quality and still going strong with an active and virile community. This reminds me of something, when CSGO first came out, the old guard absolutely hated the changes and started screeching how CSGO will die and how 1.6, the absolute meme of a game was the best CS ever. Fortunately, for the community of CS, the developers didn’t give a -Yoink- about the ramblings of players who had no idea how to design a video game and stuck to their guns. CSGO is now the most famous iteration of the game and the most successful competitive FPS of all times. I hope 343 does the same. I remember when the AWP scope speed was nerfed in CS, everyone was salty about how it would kill the game because up until that time, everyone would just buy the magnum sniper rifle and jump around the map memeing everyone with one hit body–Yoink- kills. So yes, change is good. If an old mechanic becomes stale, it deserves to be replaced with something better.

16697

> 2535442765997359;16696:
> > 2533274833081329;16695:
> > > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > > DOOM has a variation of sprint and it is called the Haste powerup.
> >
> > Halo has that too, it’s called Speed Boost. No one wanted to get rid of that, some people forget it even exists despite being here for 3 games now.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > > Reaching from point A to B before your enemy is a very valuable asset with the risk that it leaves you vulnerable to enemy fire. It is a fair trade-off and people should use it judiciously.
> >
> > Without getting into the discussion of whether this specific trade off needs to exist or not, you just mentioned a game that has variable speed but doesn’t give you a trade off, because Haste allows you to keep shooting. The only ability that removes your ability to shoot is Rage, which is the equivalent of finding a sword or something.
> >
> > So realistically, removing Sprint still leaves you with variable movement speed in the same vein as DOOM.
>
> I find it very interesting how you casually managed to ignore what I wrote about csgo and variable movement speed being an integral part of the game. You used my statement regarding Doom which is, for all intents and purposes, a backwater game with a nearly extinct community and chose to ignore the greatest FPS e-sport of all times, unmatched in quality and still going strong with an active and virile community. This reminds me of something, when CSGO first came out, the old guard absolutely hated the changes and started screeching how CSGO will die and how 1.6, the absolute meme of a game was the best CS ever. Fortunately, for the community of CS, the developers didn’t give a -Yoink- about the ramblings of players who had no idea how to design a video game and stuck to their guns. CSGO is now the most famous iteration of the game and the most successful competitive FPS of all times. I hope 343 does the same. I remember when the AWP scope speed was nerfed in CS, everyone was salty about how it would kill the game because up until that time, everyone would just buy the magnum sniper rifle and jump around the map memeing everyone with one hit body–Yoink- kills. So yes, change is good. If an old mechanic becomes stale, it deserves to be replaced with something better.

Because I’m not Naqser, and I don’t really care about CS GO. DOOM was one of your (and his) examples that I’m more familiar with playing, therefore I used it.

You’re going from “this is how it affects gameplay” to “something something popularity, change is good, old guard hate change” in just one comment, which is more telling than anything else. Unfortunately I really don’t care how popular X change makes a game, and if we want to say change is good at face value, Halo 4 is the best game in the series and Halo 5 regressed from that.

16698

> 2533274833081329;16697:
> > 2535442765997359;16696:
> > > 2533274833081329;16695:
> > > > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > > > DOOM has a variation of sprint and it is called the Haste powerup.
> > >
> > > Halo has that too, it’s called Speed Boost. No one wanted to get rid of that, some people forget it even exists despite being here for 3 games now.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > > > Reaching from point A to B before your enemy is a very valuable asset with the risk that it leaves you vulnerable to enemy fire. It is a fair trade-off and people should use it judiciously.
> > >
> > > Without getting into the discussion of whether this specific trade off needs to exist or not, you just mentioned a game that has variable speed but doesn’t give you a trade off, because Haste allows you to keep shooting. The only ability that removes your ability to shoot is Rage, which is the equivalent of finding a sword or something.
> > >
> > > So realistically, removing Sprint still leaves you with variable movement speed in the same vein as DOOM.
> >
> > I find it very interesting how you casually managed to ignore what I wrote about csgo and variable movement speed being an integral part of the game. You used my statement regarding Doom which is, for all intents and purposes, a backwater game with a nearly extinct community and chose to ignore the greatest FPS e-sport of all times, unmatched in quality and still going strong with an active and virile community. This reminds me of something, when CSGO first came out, the old guard absolutely hated the changes and started screeching how CSGO will die and how 1.6, the absolute meme of a game was the best CS ever. Fortunately, for the community of CS, the developers didn’t give a -Yoink- about the ramblings of players who had no idea how to design a video game and stuck to their guns. CSGO is now the most famous iteration of the game and the most successful competitive FPS of all times. I hope 343 does the same. I remember when the AWP scope speed was nerfed in CS, everyone was salty about how it would kill the game because up until that time, everyone would just buy the magnum sniper rifle and jump around the map memeing everyone with one hit body–Yoink- kills. So yes, change is good. If an old mechanic becomes stale, it deserves to be replaced with something better.
>
> Because I’m not Naqser, and I don’t really care about CS GO. DOOM was one of your (and his) examples that I’m more familiar with playing, therefore I used it.
>
> You’re going from “this is how it affects gameplay” to “something something popularity, change is good, old guard hate change” in just one comment, which is more telling than anything else. Unfortunately I really don’t care how popular X change makes a game, and if we want to say change is good at face value, Halo 4 is the best game in the series and Halo 5 regressed from that.

Well, popularity is an indicator of how well a change is received in the long run, think of it as a medicine. You know you will hate it, but it will be beneficial for you in the long run. It is perfectly reasonable to use popularity as a factor when discussing mechanics. What is the point of having a game when it turns out it be unbalanced, boring and people figure it out to eventually leave it? I welcome the changes H5 made to the multiplayer, hence the fact that we are here, standing on opposite ends of an argument. I feel the best option at this point will be to have two modes, one the usual, simple no advanced mechanics mode and the other more H5 oriented multiplayer. Then, we let the community decide. Soon enough, the playerbases will resolve themselves and everything will be fine. The older halos and their style were prevalent during their times but that style is dying, part of it is because those mechanics and the exclusive platform never really allowed halo to take off as a major player in the FPS arena. Halo needs to adapt to survive or it will end up like doom, a backwater game with a nearly extinct community that people will play once and shelf forever. Everyone loves doom but the multiplayer is dead, why do you think that is? Love and sustainability are not always one and the same.

Still, I respect your views and hope you have a nice day. Let’s not kill each other over disagreements in game-mechanics.

16699

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> > 2533274833081329;16697:
> > > 2535442765997359;16696:
> > > > 2533274833081329;16695:
> > > > > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > > > > DOOM has a variation of sprint and it is called the Haste powerup.
> > > >
> > > > Halo has that too, it’s called Speed Boost. No one wanted to get rid of that, some people forget it even exists despite being here for 3 games now.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > > > > Reaching from point A to B before your enemy is a very valuable asset with the risk that it leaves you vulnerable to enemy fire. It is a fair trade-off and people should use it judiciously.
> > > >
> > > > Without getting into the discussion of whether this specific trade off needs to exist or not, you just mentioned a game that has variable speed but doesn’t give you a trade off, because Haste allows you to keep shooting. The only ability that removes your ability to shoot is Rage, which is the equivalent of finding a sword or something.
> > > >
> > > > So realistically, removing Sprint still leaves you with variable movement speed in the same vein as DOOM.
> > >
> > > I find it very interesting how you casually managed to ignore what I wrote about csgo and variable movement speed being an integral part of the game. You used my statement regarding Doom which is, for all intents and purposes, a backwater game with a nearly extinct community and chose to ignore the greatest FPS e-sport of all times, unmatched in quality and still going strong with an active and virile community. This reminds me of something, when CSGO first came out, the old guard absolutely hated the changes and started screeching how CSGO will die and how 1.6, the absolute meme of a game was the best CS ever. Fortunately, for the community of CS, the developers didn’t give a -Yoink- about the ramblings of players who had no idea how to design a video game and stuck to their guns. CSGO is now the most famous iteration of the game and the most successful competitive FPS of all times. I hope 343 does the same. I remember when the AWP scope speed was nerfed in CS, everyone was salty about how it would kill the game because up until that time, everyone would just buy the magnum sniper rifle and jump around the map memeing everyone with one hit body–Yoink- kills. So yes, change is good. If an old mechanic becomes stale, it deserves to be replaced with something better.
> >
> > Because I’m not Naqser, and I don’t really care about CS GO. DOOM was one of your (and his) examples that I’m more familiar with playing, therefore I used it.
> >
> > You’re going from “this is how it affects gameplay” to “something something popularity, change is good, old guard hate change” in just one comment, which is more telling than anything else. Unfortunately I really don’t care how popular X change makes a game, and if we want to say change is good at face value, Halo 4 is the best game in the series and Halo 5 regressed from that.
>
> Well, popularity is an indicator of how well a change is received in the long run, think of it as a medicine. You know you will hate it, but it will be beneficial for you in the long run. It is perfectly reasonable to use popularity as a factor when discussing mechanics. What is the point of having a game when it turns out it be unbalanced, boring and people figure it out to eventually leave it? I welcome the changes H5 made to the multiplayer, hence the fact that we are here, standing on opposite ends of an argument. I feel the best option at this point will be to have two modes, one the usual, simple no advanced mechanics mode and the other more H5 oriented multiplayer. Then, we let the community decide. Soon enough, the playerbases will resolve themselves and everything will be fine. The older halos and their style were prevalent during their times but that style is dying, part of it is because those mechanics and the exclusive platform never really allowed halo to take off as a major player in the FPS arena. Halo needs to adapt to survive or it will end up like doom, a backwater game with a nearly extinct community that people will play once and shelf forever. Everyone loves doom but the multiplayer is dead, why do you think that is? Love and sustainability are not always one and the same.
>
> Still, I respect your views and hope you have a nice day. Let’s not kill each other over disagreements in game-mechanics.

But I play a game for entertainment, not for beneficial effects like medicine. I have to take the medicine but I don’t have to play or support the game.

If the changes are good for the simple fact that they are changes, then again Halo 4 would be the best. Halo 5 spent half of it’s development just reversing all the stuff in Halo 4 (sometimes doing too much). Halo 5’s very existence and relative success proves that not every change is a good change, and in at least one mechanic, the “old guard” can be right.

I don’t use popularity as an absolute factor because a different game can have more than one change, and people have polarizing opinions inside of one game. An easy example is Halo 5’s Campaign vs Multiplayer.

“Halo needs to adapt to survive” - we’ve spent a solid decade trying to adapt, so why isn’t Halo at the top? More importantly, why do we need to adapt to a 20+ year old mechanic and somehow that isn’t stale?

16700

> 2535442765997359;16693:
> CSGO has sprint, it’s called using a knife. It is a very big part of the game and changes the way people navigate around the map.

Pretty sure that if you ask CSGO players if sprint is in CSGO, they’ll say no.
And tell you that the closest you can get is with the knife.
Or are we sprinting with the Energy Swords too? When not activating the sprint function?

> 2535442765997359;16693:
> DOOM’s base movement speed is way too high and the maps are very, very small.

Way too high? I’m not really certain what that’s supposed to mean.
From what I recall, they felt quite suitable for the speed at which you moved.

> 2535442765997359;16693:
> DOOM has a variation of sprint and it is called the Haste powerup.

That’s literally a map pick up which increases your base movement speed.
I could easily tell you that any Halo which let you increase the default speed in the customs menu’s also “had a variation of sprint”.
As was also noted, Halo also features those.

> 2535442765997359;16693:
> Variable movement speed is important for a multiplayer game as it adds an extra layer of skill that people have to master and refine, this separates the unskilled from the skilled.

Yeah, and since Halo CE have you been able to change your movement speed rather easily.
Unless of course you’re refering to “knowing when to sprint”, in which case, what new / other type of information do you need when you decide to start sprinting, as opposed to games lacking sprint?

> 2535442765997359;16693:
> Reaching from point A to B before your enemy is a very valuable asset with the risk that it leaves you vulnerable to enemy fire. It is a fair trade-off and people should use it judiciously. Henceforth, I conclude that Sprint should stay.

And without sprint, it isn’t a “very valuable asset” to reach point B before the enemy?

> 2535442765997359;16696:
> I find it very interesting how you casually managed to ignore what I wrote about csgo and variable movement speed being an integral part of the game.

And sprint isn’t the only way of adding that variable movement speed.

> 2535442765997359;16696:
> You used my statement regarding Doom which is, for all intents and purposes, a backwater game with a nearly extinct community

Yet here we are in 2020 with Doom: Eternal soon to be released, with quite the marketing behind it.
One of the more interesting things regarding Doom 2016, is that it got good scores and reviews, for the game that it was.

> 2535442765997359;16696:
> and chose to ignore the greatest FPS e-sport of all times, unmatched in quality and still going strong with an active and virile community. This reminds me of something, when CSGO first came out, the old guard absolutely hated the changes and started screeching how CSGO will die and how 1.6, the absolute meme of a game was the best CS ever. Fortunately, for the community of CS, the developers didn’t give a -Yoink- about the ramblings of players who had no idea how to design a video game and stuck to their guns.

Wasn’t it Valve who changed the spray patterns of the guns to be like 1.6, because of CS-fan feedback?
Then again, what kind of massive gameplay changes were made? I’m not seeing the Halo CE to Halo 2 changes, or Halo 3 to Reach, or Reach to Halo 4, or Halo 4 to Halo 5 changes being made between CS 1.6, CS:S and CS:Go.

> 2535442765997359;16696:
> I hope 343 does the same.

Stick to their guns? I’d say they did, and that got you Halo 4 and Halo 5.

> 2535442765997359;16696:
> So yes, change is good. If an old mechanic becomes stale, it deserves to be replaced with something better.

Change is good, untill you don’t think it is anymore. That’s all there is to it.
Just using “change” like that means everything which changes. At some point, you’ll dislike something which changed.

Of course it deserves to be replaced with something better, but let me guess, not if it’s sprint.

> 2535442765997359;16698:
> Well, popularity is an indicator of how well a change is received in the long run

Okay, how popular was Halo 4?
How did Halo 5 do in the long run?

> 2535442765997359;16698:
> Think of it as a medicine. You know you will hate it, but it will be beneficial for you in the long run.

With the difference here that with medicine, I’m improving my own health, but with a game, I can go do something else without it affecting my physical well-being in a negative manner.

> 2535442765997359;16698:
> I feel the best option at this point will be to have two modes, one the usual, simple no advanced mechanics mode and the other more H5 oriented multiplayer. Then, we let the community decide.

I think not two pages back, was this discussed.

> 2535442765997359;16698:
> The older halos and their style were prevalent during their times but that style is dying, part of it is because those mechanics and the exclusive platform never really allowed halo to take off as a major player in the FPS arena.

So, how’s this “new style” doing?
Proclaim the old style is dying, when there’s really been no attempt at it in current years.
I recall MLG picking up Halo 2 and Halo 3 for even TV aired competitions. Also being big enough to get their own playlists.
Then having issues with Reach and ending up dropping Halo with 4.
Feels like it was quite big back then, and being a major player in the FPS arena, being as influential as it was on FPS games.

> 2535442765997359;16698:
> Halo needs to adapt to survive or it will end up like doom, a backwater game with a nearly extinct community that people will play once and shelf forever.

And adapting in this context means?
Where do you think Doom would be now if they had gone ahead with the build the developers at one point called “Call of Doom”?
I.e, a one in a dozen games.

> 2535442765997359;16698:
> Everyone loves doom but the multiplayer is dead, why do you think that is? Love and sustainability are not always one and the same.

Because Doom multiplayer went ahead with 2 weapon slots and loadouts, along with crazy demon powers on the map. Doom 2016 MP never took off because it relied on features and mechanics that didn’t sit well with the community, which is why the Single Player got good scores, but the MP didn’t.

16701

honestly, i have played all the halo games, and i prefer the sprint and spartan charge as tactical tools.
1.the sprint function allows you to get away from hopeless situations with at least a small chance of success, also, you NEED to sprint to not get sniped in most game modes
2.spartan charge is a move that i use to push people back when i first encounter them at close range, so i can pop them with a headshot. its also really handy if i’m trailing a person and i don’t want to be too vulnerable
3. I’ve always wanted games to be a bit faster paced, I just prefer more action
but that’s just my opinion, and my playstyle

16702

> 2533275001855290;16701:
> honestly, i have played all the halo games, and i prefer the sprint and spartan charge as tactical tools.
> 1.the sprint function allows you to get away from hopeless situations with at least a small chance of success, also, you NEED to sprint to not get sniped in most game modes
> 2.spartan charge is a move that i use to push people back when i first encounter them at close range, so i can pop them with a headshot. its also really handy if i’m trailing a person and i don’t want to be too vulnerable

Fair enough. For a lot of people, these are negatives, but tastes differ, so your opinion is as valid as anybody elses.

However…

> 2533275001855290;16701:
> 3. I’ve always wanted games to be a bit faster paced, I just prefer more action

This is not a valid argument. Sprint actually makes the game slower because it repeatedly interrupts combat and the elongated maps force players to run around like headless chicken before finding an enemy. This was also timed on high-level play, wherein games with sprint, less kills were done in a longer period of time than in Halo titles without sprint. Halo CE to this day is still the fastest game in the franchise.

16703

> 2533274795123910;16700:
> > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > CSGO has sprint, it’s called using a knife. It is a very big part of the game and changes the way people navigate around the map.
>
> Pretty sure that if you ask CSGO players if sprint is in CSGO, they’ll say no.
> And tell you that the closest you can get is with the knife.
> Or are we sprinting with the Energy Swords too? When not activating the sprint function?
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > DOOM’s base movement speed is way too high and the maps are very, very small.
>
> Way too high? I’m not really certain what that’s supposed to mean.
> From what I recall, they felt quite suitable for the speed at which you moved.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > DOOM has a variation of sprint and it is called the Haste powerup.
>
> That’s literally a map pick up which increases your base movement speed.
> I could easily tell you that any Halo which let you increase the default speed in the customs menu’s also “had a variation of sprint”.
> As was also noted, Halo also features those.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > Variable movement speed is important for a multiplayer game as it adds an extra layer of skill that people have to master and refine, this separates the unskilled from the skilled.
>
> Yeah, and since Halo CE have you been able to change your movement speed rather easily.
> Unless of course you’re refering to “knowing when to sprint”, in which case, what new / other type of information do you need when you decide to start sprinting, as opposed to games lacking sprint?
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > Reaching from point A to B before your enemy is a very valuable asset with the risk that it leaves you vulnerable to enemy fire. It is a fair trade-off and people should use it judiciously. Henceforth, I conclude that Sprint should stay.
>
> And without sprint, it isn’t a “very valuable asset” to reach point B before the enemy?
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16696:
> > I find it very interesting how you casually managed to ignore what I wrote about csgo and variable movement speed being an integral part of the game.
>
> And sprint isn’t the only way of adding that variable movement speed.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16696:
> > You used my statement regarding Doom which is, for all intents and purposes, a backwater game with a nearly extinct community
>
> Yet here we are in 2020 with Doom: Eternal soon to be released, with quite the marketing behind it.
> One of the more interesting things regarding Doom 2016, is that it got good scores and reviews, for the game that it was.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16696:
> > and chose to ignore the greatest FPS e-sport of all times, unmatched in quality and still going strong with an active and virile community. This reminds me of something, when CSGO first came out, the old guard absolutely hated the changes and started screeching how CSGO will die and how 1.6, the absolute meme of a game was the best CS ever. Fortunately, for the community of CS, the developers didn’t give a -Yoink- about the ramblings of players who had no idea how to design a video game and stuck to their guns.
>
> Wasn’t it Valve who changed the spray patterns of the guns to be like 1.6, because of CS-fan feedback?
> Then again, what kind of massive gameplay changes were made? I’m not seeing the Halo CE to Halo 2 changes, or Halo 3 to Reach, or Reach to Halo 4, or Halo 4 to Halo 5 changes being made between CS 1.6, CS:S and CS:Go.
>
>
>
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> > 2535442765997359;16696:
> > I hope 343 does the same.
>
> Stick to their guns? I’d say they did, and that got you Halo 4 and Halo 5.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16696:
> > So yes, change is good. If an old mechanic becomes stale, it deserves to be replaced with something better.
>
> Change is good, untill you don’t think it is anymore. That’s all there is to it.
> Just using “change” like that means everything which changes. At some point, you’ll dislike something which changed.
>
> Of course it deserves to be replaced with something better, but let me guess, not if it’s sprint.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16698:
> > Well, popularity is an indicator of how well a change is received in the long run
>
> Okay, how popular was Halo 4?
> How did Halo 5 do in the long run?
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16698:
> > Think of it as a medicine. You know you will hate it, but it will be beneficial for you in the long run.
>
> With the difference here that with medicine, I’m improving my own health, but with a game, I can go do something else without it affecting my physical well-being in a negative manner.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16698:
> > I feel the best option at this point will be to have two modes, one the usual, simple no advanced mechanics mode and the other more H5 oriented multiplayer. Then, we let the community decide.
>
> I think not two pages back, was this discussed.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16698:
> > The older halos and their style were prevalent during their times but that style is dying, part of it is because those mechanics and the exclusive platform never really allowed halo to take off as a major player in the FPS arena.
>
> So, how’s this “new style” doing?
> Proclaim the old style is dying, when there’s really been no attempt at it in current years.
> I recall MLG picking up Halo 2 and Halo 3 for even TV aired competitions. Also being big enough to get their own playlists.
> Then having issues with Reach and ending up dropping Halo with 4.
> Feels like it was quite big back then, and being a major player in the FPS arena, being as influential as it was on FPS games.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16698:
> > Halo needs to adapt to survive or it will end up like doom, a backwater game with a nearly extinct community that people will play once and shelf forever.
>
> And adapting in this context means?
> Where do you think Doom would be now if they had gone ahead with the build the developers at one point called “Call of Doom”?
> I.e, a one in a dozen games.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16698:
> > Everyone loves doom but the multiplayer is dead, why do you think that is? Love and sustainability are not always one and the same.
>
> Because Doom multiplayer went ahead with 2 weapon slots and loadouts, along with crazy demon powers on the map. Doom 2016 MP never took off because it relied on features and mechanics that didn’t sit well with the community, which is why the Single Player got good scores, but the MP didn’t.

I believe the topic that is being argued is the existence of varia8 movement speed, something that sprint offers. Knife functions the same way as sprint, you lose your ability to shoot for an increase in movement speed. As someone who plays CSGO regularly, I can assure you I think of this mechanic as a replacement for sprint. If it makes you happy, ditch the “sprint” animation but keep the variable movement mechanic in the game. I feel you are miffed at the sprint animation and not the mechanic itself, which is telling a lot.

I believe I was discussing csgo and not 1.6. I criticized 1.6 and called it a “meme of a game”, thereby proving my point that players don’t understand anything about game design.

I could counter-argue you by saying doom stuck to its old ways and now, we all see what happened to the MP.

You seem to be missing the point. I quite like halo 5 and the community is very much active. Your assertion that it is not without any fact doesn’t change it.

Moving from a point a to b before you enemy while having control of your movement speed introduces a semblance of mind-games in high rush combat where you need to balance risk and reward delicately. You could run to your cover and noob won’t be able to hit a running target, a competent player would. This introduces a level of sophistication to the otherwise bland gunplay where everyone can hit a shot owing to the constant moving speed.

16704

The Spartan Charge is toxic I prefer the Sprint same see on Halo 4 and Halo 5
hope to see in Halo Infinite

16705

> 2533274833081329;16695:
> > 2535442765997359;16693:
> >
>
>
>
> > 2535442765997359;16693:
> > Reaching from point A to B before your enemy is a very valuable asset with the risk that it leaves you vulnerable to enemy fire. It is a fair trade-off and people should use it judiciously.
>
> Without getting into the discussion of whether this specific trade off needs to exist or not, you just mentioned a game that has variable speed but doesn’t give you a trade off, because Haste allows you to keep shooting.

It really must be hard for many people to learn when to and when not to sprint. People are always complaining that you can’t shoot while sprinting. If you learned to use the mechanic right, you wouldn’t have any problems.