The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
16586

> 2533274833081329;16585:
> Except we already know that World Units are consistent across the game and across each engine in the series. You can even check this with Forge, because using those coordinates World Units and Forge Units were interchangeable (except Halo 5 by a factor of 10). If the World Units are a constant, then the player’s movement speed value in X game is also comparable to each other, because all it is is World Units/Time.

The problem I find with this math is that it’s basing it off Chief being 7 ft tall (at least according to the Halo CE link he posted). As far as I’m able to tell, Chief is different sizes in each Halo title, and even in the actual lore he’s actually 7 ft and 2 inches tall. Without the armor, he’s only 6 ft and 10 inches tall. The major problem I find with this is comparing Chief’s height across each Halo title in-game, he’s not the exact same size at all.

Another point is again, the base BMS speed in each Halo title seems to be different as well across identical distances. H3 didn’t have this exact map so I couldn’t make a direct comparison with it, and neither does H4. Might test it with a accurate Forge map later, or just use one of the many other base maps instead like The Pit in H3 and Pitfall in H4.

As I already said though, 0.512/2.25 walking speed/run forward is not the same in H2, as it is in H1 if H1 also has a max of 0.512/2.25 walking speed/run forward. H2 and Reach apparently have identical values though for speed, except in Reach you also have sprint which makes it just that much faster. So, considering H3 has 2.25 for run forward, it should be faster then Reach. Yet, if 2.25 is also the same in H2, then why does H2 and Reach have identical BMS speeds?

> 2533274833081329;16585:
> I’m pretty sure he means this video.

Watched the video, didn’t find anything that said “player expectations” at all. They instead stated this: “Leaving it out of H5 would be ignoring a huge portion of the gaming demographics expectations so the call was made to include it. Additionally, we didn’t want to create another resource to manage, this meant leaning towards infinite sprint, which in turn complemented giant battlegrounds in Warzone, our much hyped new multiplayer mode.” They also discussed and used Sprint in order to balance the other Spartan abilities as well.
I’m pretty sure they’ve also discussed the Sprint ability in other places as well along with explaining it’s balancing properly, like on the Waypoint News post.

Funny enough they were also going to include a “Boost jump” similar to Doom’s 2016 “boost jump”. Imagine if 343 included boost jump, people would’ve been calling Doom 2016 a copy of Halo 5’s gameplay lmfao.

16587

Just chiming in to say that I hope Halo Infinite does not include sprint.

Classic Halo proved that you do not need sprint to make an interesting shooter. Also, the devs having control over the pace of the player allows for better map design (as proved in many of the iconic maps from the original trilogy of games).

Reach proved that Sprint has a negative effect on map design by causing everything to be scaled up, leading to a slower paced game (despite the claims that sprint speeds up the pace of the game).

You cannot shoot while sprinting, so even if the map design is not influenced by it it still does not improve the pace of the game.

If you want to increase the pace of the game buff the base movement speed. EG: DOOM, Quake, Unreal Tourney, HALO MLG SETTINGS.

16588

We know 343 is going to have a hard decision about keeping or removing sprint and they know that they can’t please everyone at once. 343 will do what anyone would do, and that is please the majority. I have looked at a few polls from this website to see who exactly is the “majority”. This probably isn’t accurate since most of the Halo community doesn’t visit the forums.

Poll 1

Poll 2

Poll 3

Poll 4

Poll 5
If you have looked at all the links you can see that keeping sprint is in the majority. That is why I think sprint will be in Infinite. I think it is pointless at this point to continue arguing about it at this point, just let what happens, happen. 343 will obviously do the best they can to please everyone so you can’t blame them. If for some reason you are mad at them just think, what would you do if you were in their shoes? Let me tell you, making a decision like that isn’t easy.

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> 2533275001522797;16588:
> This probably isn’t accurate since most of the Halo community doesn’t visit the forums.

Correct. Communities can have varying results like a competitive community poll for example would very likely be in favor of no sprint so it would be unwise for 343 to use them in any kind of official results.

16590

> 2727626560040591;16589:
> > 2533275001522797;16588:
> > This probably isn’t accurate since most of the Halo community doesn’t visit the forums.
>
> Correct. Communities can have varying results like a competitive community poll for example would very likely be in favor of no sprint so it would be unwise for 343 to use them in any kind of official results.

Of course, we must also remember that the competitive community is still the minority. I do believe 343 said somewhere on a social stream or something that they make up about 30%. Of course that doesn’t mean that all of the more social players want sprint so you are correct. That also means that not all competitive players want sprint removed, so, we shall see in Infinite.

16591

> 2533275001522797;16590:
> Of course, we must also remember that the competitive community is still the minority. I do believe 343 said somewhere on a social stream or something that they make up about 30%. Of course that doesn’t mean that all of the more social players want sprint so you are correct. That also means that not all competitive players want sprint removed, so, we shall see in Infinite.

If you want to see a bigger survey which polled multiple communities, then you should check this out. In reddit’s poll which had almost a thousand participants, 43% said sprint didn’t have a place in Halo while 29% said it does and 25% were a maybe. It’s not anything official like I mentioned previously, but I think reddit is more of a mix of casual and competitive players.

16592

> 2533275001522797;16588:
> If for some reason you are mad at them just think, what would you do if you were in their shoes?

Not put sprint in Halo.

> 2533275001522797;16588:
> Let me tell you, making a decision like that isn’t easy.

On the contrary, it’s ridiculously easy.
Not only were they hired to make Halo games, a franchise that traditionally doesn’t have sprint, but they specifically decided to make their first game Halo 4, as in, a direct sequel to Halo 3.
Ergo, the correct decision would have been to actually base the game on Halo 3.
This really should have been a no-brainer.

As for after-the-fact… given that ever since sprint was introduced to the franchise, the online population plummeted (then followed by the sales), the logical thing is to remove it for the next game.
And I’m not saying that this is necessarily the case because of sprint, but the only way to actually find out is by releasing a game without gimmick advanced movement mechanics and see if the trend stops or even reverts.

It certainly doesn’t help that every iteration of sprint has been consecutively worse than the last one.
“Hey, sprint in Reach broke the pacing of the game by allowing some players to just disengage from combat and punishes players who were about to win. It also breaks the synergy of movement and combat that Halo is based on. How do we fix that?”
“I know! Let’s make sprint a default ability that everybody has! That’ll surely take care of the problem…”
“Hmm… nope. Actually it got worse because now all the players are escaping at the push of a button and running around the map like headless chicken instead of fighting. We need a better idea.”
“I’ve got it: Let’s make sprint infinite so players will never have to stop and fight again!”
“…”

16593

This is a ridiculous discussion. At this point it’s pretty much mandatory that an fps game has sprint. There are a few exceptions but those are very rare cases and it depends on the game. Halo would be taking a huge step back and it clearly isn’t going to happen 343 would be insane to remove sprint for halo infinite

The only compromise I could see potentially would be a game mode or playlist that doesn’t have sprint to appease the minority. But there is 0% chance the base game and core modes have sprint disabled they would be setting themselves back a decade

16594

> 2533274933944980;16593:
> This is a ridiculous discussion. At this point it’s pretty much mandatory that an fps game has sprint. There are a few exceptions but those are very rare cases and it depends on the game. Halo would be taking a huge step back and it clearly isn’t going to happen 343 would be insane to remove sprint for halo infinite
>
> The only compromise I could see potentially would be a game mode or playlist that doesn’t have sprint to appease the minority. But there is 0% chance the base game and core modes have sprint disabled they would be setting themselves back a decade

I don’t agree with you.
Mimicking the same mechanic as other fps make Halo a basic FPS like any others.
Not being able to run as been the core element of gameplay and a part of what makes Halo well Halo.

16595

> 2533274801176260;16592:
> > 2533275001522797;16588:
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> Not put sprint in Halo.

Like I said earlier just in case you didn’t see it, they would want to please as many people a possible.

> 2533274801176260;16592:
> > 2533275001522797;16588:
> >
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> On the contrary, it’s ridiculously easy.

Maybe for someone who doesn’t own a franchise that is on the line, this decision would be easy.

> 2533274801176260;16592:
> > 2533275001522797;16588:
> >
>
> As for after-the-fact… given that ever since sprint was introduced to the franchise, the online population plummeted (then followed by the sales), the logical thing is to remove it for the next game.
> And I’m not saying that this is necessarily the case because of sprint, but the only way to actually find out is by releasing a game without gimmick advanced movement mechanics and see if the trend stops or even reverts.

At this point I think the online population might plummet even more because of how many new players there are, but that’s just my speculation.

> 2533274801176260;16592:
> > 2533275001522797;16588:
> >
>
> It certainly doesn’t help that every iteration of sprint has been consecutively worse than the last one.
> “Hey, sprint in Reach broke the pacing of the game by allowing some players to just disengage from combat and punishes players who were about to win. It also breaks the synergy of movement and combat that Halo is based on. How do we fix that?”
> “I know! Let’s make sprint a default ability that everybody has! That’ll surely take care of the problem…”
> “Hmm… nope. Actually it got worse because now all the players are escaping at the push of a button and running around the map like headless chicken instead of fighting. We need a better idea.”
> “I’ve got it: Let’s make sprint infinite so players will never have to stop and fight again!”
> “…”

For Reach sprint was not in MLG the competitive playlist so it didn’t matter and wasn’t a real problem compared to armor lock. You also must have forgot that even though you have infinite sprint in H4 you could see through walls! Not to mention a tracker on the player that killed you last. So, once again sprint wasn’t really a big problem in my eyes. And what about H5? Was it worse because you could shoot the player to stop them from sprinting?

I just posted my opinion why I think 343 might put sprint in Infinite, I’m not trying to argue with you.

16596

> 2533275001522797;16595:
> Like I said earlier just in case you didn’t see it, they would want to please as many people a possible.

Sprint doesn’t seem to do that. Even if it wasn’t responsible for Halo’s decline, it certainly didn’t stop it. All it did was alienate a huge part of their fanbase.

> 2533275001522797;16595:
> Maybe for someone who doesn’t own a franchise that is on the line, this decision would be easy.

No, the decision should be even easier when you own a franchise that is in decline: You revert to the last iteration when the franchise was healthy.

> 2533275001522797;16595:
> At this point I think the online population might plummet even more because of how many new players there are, but that’s just my speculation.

How many “new players” are there exactly? And where are they? Because by numbers, we can tell that they aren’t playing Halo…

Would it upset the people that enjoy NuHalo? Sure.
But at this point, they got way more to gain by trying to win back the people that they lost over the last decade.

> 2533275001522797;16595:
> For Reach sprint was not in MLG the competitive playlist so it didn’t matter and wasn’t a real problem compared to armor lock.

Armor Lock wasn’t in the competitive settings either, so I don’t see the connection.
Besides, I don’t care about MLG.

> 2533275001522797;16595:
> You also must have forgot that even though you have infinite sprint in H4 you could see through walls! Not to mention a tracker on the player that killed you last.

Just because there were other -Yoink- mechanics doesn’t make this one less -Yoink-. That’s whataboutism at its finest.

> 2533275001522797;16595:
> And what about H5? Was it worse because you could shoot the player to stop them from sprinting?

No, it was worse in spite of desprint.
Also, desprint doesn’t even work 99% of the time because the game also adds thursters, allowing you to get behind cover instantaneously, then run away.

> 2533275001522797;16595:
> I just posted my opinion why I think 343 might put sprint in Infinite, I’m not trying to argue with you.

You also asked a question, which I answered.
And for somebody who doesn’t want to argue with me, you certainly went to great lenghts trying to pick apart my reply.

16597

> 2533274958836218;16594:
> Not being able to run as been the core element of gameplay and a part of what makes Halo well Halo.

I don’t like the wording in this.
You were always able to run in Halo. You did it by pushing the stick all the way forward.
If you didn’t want to run (for whatever reason) you just pushed it forward halfway.
The difference compared to sprint is that you don’t need to arbitrarily lower you weapon and sacrifice combat readiness in order to reach your top speed.
This is also consistent with Halo lore, as Spartans are able to run and shoot at the same time.
The sprint mechanic, as it is currently implemented in the 343-games, is completely contradictory not only to Halo’s basic gameplay foundation (run’n’gun) but also to the overall story.

16598

> 2533274801176260;16596:
> > 2533275001522797;16595:
> >
>
> Sprint doesn’t seem to do that. Even if it wasn’t responsible for Halo’s decline, it certainly didn’t stop it. All it did was alienate a huge part of their fanbase.

Who said Halo is declining I’m pretty sure H5 was an incline from H4.

> 2533274801176260;16596:
> > 2533275001522797;16595:
> >
>
> No, the decision should be even easier when you own a franchise that is in decline: You revert to the last iteration when the franchise was healthy.

So that people would complain about it feeling the exact same as a previous game, ok.

> 2533274801176260;16596:
> > 2533275001522797;16595:
> >
>
>
>
> > 2533275001522797;16595:
> > At this point I think the online population might plummet even more because of how many new players there are, but that’s just my speculation.
>
> How many “new players” are there exactly? I hardly see any…
>
> Would it upset the people that enjoy NuHalo? Sure.
> But at this point, they got way more to gain by trying to win back the people that they lost over the last decade.

Maybe not on the forums but, the new players are everywhere, it’s time to open you eyes. Also, just in case you didn’t see the last part I put it in italics and bold hopefully that will help. If not you may want to see an eye doctor and get some glasses or contacts. I like glasses because they look better but, that is your decision.

> 2533274801176260;16596:
> > 2533275001522797;16595:
> >
>
>
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> > 2533275001522797;16595:
> > For Reach sprint was not in MLG the competitive playlist so it didn’t matter and wasn’t a real problem compared to armor lock.
>
> Armor Lock wasn’t in the competitive settings either, so I don’t see the connection.
> Besides, I don’t care about MLG.

*sigh I’m saying sprint isn’t big compared to armor lock. You made it see like the only reason people escaped death was because of sprint.

> 2533274801176260;16596:
> > 2533275001522797;16595:
> >
>
> Just because there were other -Yoink- mechanics doesn’t make this one less -Yoink-. That’s whataboutism at its finest.

Oh, did I hit a sore spot? I’m sorry, do you want to talk about it?

> 2533274801176260;16596:
> No, it was worse in spite of desprint.
> Also, desprint doesn’t even work 99% of the time because the game also adds thursters, allowing you to get behind cover instantaneously, then run away.

Desprint works all the time for me. Of course I do play smart and expect them to sprint away.

> 2533274801176260;16596:
> > 2533275001522797;16595:
> >
>
> You also asked a question, which I answered.
> And for somebody who doesn’t want to argue with me, you went to great lenghts trying to pick apart my reply.

Ok, you answered the question, what about the rest? What is a lenghts? Oh, you meant lengths haha. Well, for you it might take great lengths but, to me it is effortless all I’m doing is typing.

16599

> 2533275001522797;16598:
> Who said Halo is declining I’m pretty sure H5 was an incline from H4.

H5G sold less than even Halo 3, even though both games released at the same time in the life cycle of their respective console and the XBone had more units sold (15M compared to the 360’s 13M)
H5G consistently had almost half the amount of players (according to Xbox’s own “most played” chart) than Halo 4 at the same time after release, which already had significantly less than Reach.

> 2533275001522797;16598:
> So that people would complain about it feeling the exact same as a previous game, ok.

Given how many people bought the Master Chief Collection, which is the exact same previous game (and was horrendously broken for years) I don’t consider that an issue.

> 2533275001522797;16598:
> Maybe not on the forums but, the new players are everywhere

Just not playing the games, apparently.

> 2533275001522797;16598:
> Also, just in case you didn’t see the last part I put it in italics and bold hopefully that will help. If not you may want to see an eye doctor and get some glasses or contacts. I like glasses because they look better but, that is your decision.

What? That you’re speculating? Yeah, I saw that part. Even if I hadn’t, it’s blatantly obvious. So what?

> 2533275001522797;16598:
> *sigh I’m saying sprint isn’t big compared to armor lock. You made it see like the only reason people escaped death was because of sprint.

No, I never said that. The difference is, the developers realized how atrocious armor lock is, so it was cut from all games afterwards.
Sprint on the other hand is just as bad (maybe even worse, because with armor lock, at least you’re forced to stay in one place, so your opponent can still kill you after it’s run out) but was expanded in each subsequent release.

> 2533275001522797;16598:
> Oh, did I hit a sore spot? I’m sorry, do you want to talk about it?

No, as long as you’re sorry for strawmanning, I’m good.

> 2533275001522797;16598:
> Desprint works all the time for me. Of course I do play smart and expect them to sprint away.

Good for you. Guess you’re the 1%, then.

> 2533275001522797;16598:
> Ok, you answered the question, what about the rest?

What rest?

16600

> 2533274801176260;16597:
> > 2533274958836218;16594:
> > Not being able to run as been the core element of gameplay and a part of what makes Halo well Halo.
>
> I don’t like the wording in this.
> You were always able to run in Halo. You did it by pushing the stick all the way forward.
> If you didn’t want to run (for whatever reason) you just pushed it forward halfway.
> The difference compared to sprint is that you don’t need to arbitrarily lower you weapon and sacrifice combat readiness in order to reach your top speed.
> This is also consistent with Halo lore, as Spartans are able to run and shoot at the same time.
> The sprint mechanic, as it is currently implemented in the 343-games, is completely contradictory not only to Halo’s basic gameplay foundation (run’n’gun) but also to the overall story.

Sorry didn’t knew how to put it into words but yeah Halo was more like how you move in Doom always running but at the same time keeping your gun pointed to you’re ennemy unlike in other fps were you drop your gun (not literally, sorry can’t find my word easily, I’m french) to run(or sprint).

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> 2533274801176260;16599:
> > 2533275001522797;16598:
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Ok, like I said I didn’t want to argue so we will see when Infinite is released. I’m just gonna leave this here.

16602

I think this is fine! The recent MYTHIC PLAYLIST that was tested in Ranked Halo 5 this season was PERFECT! I loved it and I got champ right away. I would die to have that be how Halo 6 plays. My personal opinion is that competitive Halo should NOT have sprint at all. Up the base move speed and if thrust must stay then minimize it’s effectiveness. Spartan Charge and Ground Pound should die and be forgotten… I really think those two mechanics are nothing but detractors.

Customs and social should be a no holds barred fun experience with alternating gametypes.

16603

> 2533274801176260;16599:
> > 2533275001522797;16598:
> > Who said Halo is declining I’m pretty sure H5 was an incline from H4.
>
> H5G sold less than even Halo 3, even though both games released at the same time in the life cycle of their respective console and the XBone had more units sold (15M compared to the 360’s 13M)

who care’s that halo 5 sold less then halo 3 its more normal with game’s that have a long life cycle that at some point there are sold less then before.
other game’s that have a long life cycle also have the same problem like halo has now.
that older game’s from back then are selling better then now.

and what most off you all forget is that staying in the old good time’s only is ending only worse for the game’s cycle.

what the core off Halo is the long story and campaing missions you can play thats the core off the Halo game’s and most players buy then only for the campaing missions.

and still if the developers like 343 wane see new players play the halo game’s then there need to chance things here and there and if its adding sprint in the game and keep it in the halo game’s to let new generation off players trying to play it then its a good thing then keep the old stuff and not adding new things in the game.

16604

> 2533274823394867;16603:
> who care’s that halo 5 sold less then halo 3

Well, he was asking me how I knew that Halo was in decline and I responded.

> 2533274823394867;16603:
> what the core off Halo is the long story and campaing missions you can play thats the core off the Halo game’s and most players buy then only for the campaing missions.

So did I. The problem is, if I hate the gameplay, I have no reason to actually buy and play the game. In order to experience the story, I could just as well watch a Let’s Play on YouTube.

> 2533274823394867;16603:
> and still if the developers like 343 wane see new players play the halo game’s then there need to chance things here and there and if its adding sprint in the game and keep it in the halo game’s to let new generation off players trying to play it then its a good thing then keep the old stuff and not adding new things in the game.

All of this assuming that new players actually refuse to play a game without sprint, which is a baseless assumption and was never proven.
Also, nobody ever said that adding new things is bad. You can add plenty of stuff without mutating the franchise beyond the point of recognisability.

16605

> 2533274801176260;16604:
> Well, he was asking me how I knew that Halo was in decline and I responded.

sure but you know also there is a gaming pass that xbox has and since that not counts as a sale like you buy in the game that are also a reason why its not selling good more since most are playing halo maybe with there gaming pass that is much cheaper then a disc version and also not forget the digital download’s.

> 2533274801176260;16604:
> So did I. The problem is, if I hate the gameplay, I have no reason to actually buy and play the game. In order to experience the story, I could just as well watch a Let’s Play on YouTube.

is true but most players not wane watch the campaing there wane play it and feel the experience on there own.

> 2533274801176260;16604:
> All of this assuming that new players actually refuse to play a game without sprint, which is a baseless assumption and was never proven.
> Also, nobody ever said that adding new things is bad. You can add plenty of stuff without mutating the franchise beyond the point of recognisability.

adding new things there can but at some point you need to make a big chance with some off the systems in the halo franchise.
and who knows the reason there have adding sprint in the game was to make the game look more real.
i remember some off the old cod titels where if you go in to a river you are death.
there have chance that if you go now in the a river you swimming now and can dive in the water and not go death automatic.
its the same with sprint do you also walk with you gun up that way like in halo 3 or is it more that you sprint more and keep you gun in a diffrend way.
thats how game’s have become now more that you can swim and dive with a gun now and sprint with a gun then only walking.

that are things we all most accept same if we not like to see it in some off the game’s then we still all most accept it that its happing.

the same thing we wane see in the grafic’s off the game that a tree is more looking like a real tree in game’s now.
and there are lot off things in grafic’s more we wane see like it was the same in real life then its also counts for the other things like sprint.