> 2533274973685362;4:
> didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not. In the event you’re not, it is not at all that simple.
> 2533275001522797;16565:
> I appreciate the try but there ae a few problems. First off you say older Halo games. There is a S after game meaning plural or more than one yet only one Halo game is in the video. Second, that game is Halo 3 which has the slowest movement speed out of every Halo game I think. Third, the examples all don’t start in the same exact place. Fourth, Halo 5’s remade Heretic map isn’t going to have the exact dimensions of the original. I’m pretty sure it’s smaller than the Halo 3 version.
I just want to straighten out a common misconception.
Halo CE, 2 and 3 all have the exact same base movement Speed. Halo Reach had it reduced slightly, I can’t remember what it was for Halo 4, but Halo 5 had it increased beyond the original trilogy.
Halo 3 feels slow because of a low Field of View, which has quite an impact in how fast you seem to be going, not how fast you actually go.
Keep in mind, Halo 5’s increased in BMS happened after its beta, and if I recall, to further decrease the escapability aspect of sprinting. That was despite shields not starting to recharge if you started sprinting.
Truth, Halo 5’s “spiritual remake”, does not have the same dimensions as Heretic or Midship from previous games, it is larger. Nigherlev however chose a 1:1 Forge remake map for his video, the question is, if Truth isn’t a 1:1 remake of Midship, and there aren’t any smaller Maps, why didn’t i343 make it a 1:1 remake? Because the speed at which you travel is a factor when deciding how long it should take to get from one place to another.
Nighterlev’s video shows that we have a higher velocity in Halo 5, but another video in almost the same formatting pre-dating nighterlev’s video by years, Showcase Midship vs Truth and how many seconds it takes to get from one place to another using different settings. Result in that video was that despite an increased movement Speed and sprinting, Halo 5’s time to travel was close to identical to that of Halo 3’s from corresponding places on both maps.
> 2533274887581216;16563:
> > 2533274810128948;16539:
> > I cannot stand sprint. I have played halo since 2002 and I truly believe that it ruined the game. The maps are larger and do not play fluidly like Halo CE-3. Classic halo you always had your gun up, giving you the ability to shoot, grenade, run and jump all at the same time, with sprint the game feels choppy. Sprint simply does not belong in halo.
>
> Halo 5 matches play fluid, incredibly fluid and smooth. The games usually don’t even go past the 10 minute mark unless your playing against a relatively skilled team. Not all Maps are larger, only a couple of them actually are.
>
> Classic Halo did none of this, Melee for one doesn’t allow your gun to be up, neither does throwing grenades. If we’re talking about “true classic halo” that didn’t involve a 4th option (H3 Equipment, HR Armor abilities, H4 Armor abilities, H5 Spartan abilities) then Classic Halo ended in Halo 3, case closed. With Sprint, the game by no means feels choppy at all.
>
> Sprint belongs in Halo just like any other ability does.
So , are you just a fan of sprint in halo , or All armor abilities , spartan abilities , some abilities in other franchises have that aren’t in the game yet , or all of the above ?
> 2533274795123910;16564:
> Older Halo bms speeds weren’t even part of the post your quoting, not even in the part you cut out, only an alternative to increasing speeds other than sprint, if Speed was an issue in the first place.
I was a bit tired when I made that comment and didn’t read your guys original comments to the fullest detail, so I just assumed all of you were talking about Halo 5’s Sprint mechanic and the classic “it doesn’t increase your speed” across maps, even though it does, and the video I posted shows that it does. I included the BMS comparisons just because theirs also people out there who think the BMS is the same, or slower in H5 vs H1-H3.
> 2533274795123910;16564:
> PS, yes, it is known that Halo 5 BMS is the highest default bms of all Halo’s.
Like I said, theirs people out there who don’t think this at all (I’ve met them, and argued with them before about it.) Use my video to prove them wrong.
> 2533274795123910;16564:
> So Halo 5 is only popular because it has sprint? No, Eagle can’t know who the majority is, but you’re not really helping your own case with more loose statements.
I didn’t state Halo 5 was “only popular because it has sprint” I stated it seems to be pretty popular to this day, with the competitive scene even coming back to Halo because of H5. Why exactly? Balanced maps, balanced gameplay, balanced weapon layouts, weapons don’t necessarily over power one another, and the Sprint mechanic in particular just “works” in Halo 5’s sand box for competitive players.
> 2533274795123910;16564:
> What is the “pace of the game” even? Can you define it?
> Some regard Halo CE to be the fastest paced game of all Halo’s, despite lacking sprint.
Fast pace generally means the movement surrounding the game is incredibly quick, lots of things happen all at once, things you can’t even really control. When people talk about Halo CE in terms of “fast pace” they’re actually talking about how long games last, not it being “fast paced”, It’s a common misconception as to what fast paced actually means. Comparing Halo 5 to Halo CE, you have a ton more things happening incredibly quickly all at once in H5 by far.
> 2533274795123910;16564:
> Momentary moments when you can’t use a specific action is far less intrusive than trading Combat and movement capabilities over a long period of time.
Define long period of time. Going from point A to point B in 5 seconds from spawn isn’t really “that” long at all, and can be quickly stopped the moment you see a player in front of you.
> 2533274795123910;16564:
> You could also technically not bother trying to apply glitches as an argument as those were not intended mechanics by the developers.
Not intended, but still used in the competitive scene, and even banned at times. By this logic, H2 was intended to have sprint by the developers but got cut last minute due to unfinished animations and likely over-all an unfinished balance layout. In my eyes H2’s Coagulation was a map that was actually intended to actually use sprint before it got cut. So was a large majority of Halo 2’s’ campaign missions funny enough.
> 2533274795123910;16564:
> Also, yet again, time to travel is based on Speed and distance. The time to travel is up to the designer.
> 8 seconds to get from A to B is the same in all Halo’s.
I would actually love to dispute this and see whether or not if this is actually true at all. Do you know of any video evidence/proof which shows it’s exactly the same across all Halo’s from Halo 1, 2, 3, Reach, and 4? If not, I’ll probably be doing this myself actually. I remember even seeing some things about how H4’s base speed is “slower”, same with Reach vs the older Halo’s but no proof or evidence was ever shown of it actually being proven at all.
> 2533274795123910;16564:
> Picking an arbitrary number?
That’s how long most matches generally last out of my 5,000+ Arena games in Halo 5 alone. Including Warzone I’d have around 6.5k or so matches in total for Halo 5 in it’s entirety. I’m only basing that 10 minute number off of experience, nothing else.
> 2533274795123910;16564:
> Prone, corner leaning, wall huggning, blind firing, hot potatoing.
Pretty sure corner leaning, wall hugging, blind firing, hot potatoing (what even is this?) were never going to be mechanics in any of the current Halo titles at all to begin with, so I don’t really know how they could’ve been cut content. Correct me if I’m wrong though. This doesn’t mean they can’t appear in future Halo titles.
> 2533274795123910;16564:
> other mechanics have been scrapped, why couldn’t sprint?
What other mechanics? Most mechanics that got scrapped from older Halo titles due to being unfinished or some other reason, generally made a come back in future Halo titles quite often. Sprint is one of these abilites, which made a come back in Reach, and so far is here to stay permanently given how refined it’s gotten since then.
> 2533275001522797;16565:
> I appreciate the try but there ae a few problems. First off you say older Halo games. There is a S after game meaning plural or more than one yet only one Halo game is in the video. Second, that game is Halo 3 which has the slowest movement speed out of every Halo game I think. Third, the examples all don’t start in the same exact place. Fourth, Halo 5’s remade Heretic map isn’t going to have the exact dimensions of the original. I’m pretty sure it’s smaller than the Halo 3 version.
There’s literally no problems with the video, and the remade Heretic map in H5 isn’t smaller then the original at all. In fact I’d argue it’s actually slightly bigger in some area’s of the map then it is in the original. I already stated there could be inconsistencies in the description of the video to, but generally it’s the best 1:1 comparison we have so far. Unless of course you want to start going on comparing Halo 5’s Mercy map to Halo 4’s Haven map, then use the speed from H4’s Haven map to apply to Pitfall, which was a remade Halo 3 map of The Pit. This of course is pretty complex all honestly, especially when trying to compare 2 entirely different maps over-all. Although I wouldn’t be surprsied if it showed the exact same results I showed in the video I made, which shows H5’s BMS is much faster then Halo 3’s, and with Sprint it’s even faster.
2 Halo games are shown in the video, Halo 5 and Halo 3. Not 1. Plus I purposely used the original Xbox 360 version running on the native hardware, that runs at 30fps, instead of the 60fps Halo MCC H3 version. Why did I do this? People would argue H3 MCC/XONE is “faster” then H3 X360. I actually did my own comparisons of this as well, and saw little to no difference, maybe a 5-10 milisecond difference but could be just a point of error at that point when comparing movement. Haven’t done a video on it, but I would post a video showing it if you wanted me to Really shows just how much 60fps improves how you percieve the game itself to.
I stated “Halo games” because generally it’s commonly believed that Halo 1, 2, and 3 have the exact same BMS. I’m not entirely sure how true this is though and I’ll be doing testing of it myself, but if someone else has proof I’d love to see it.
> 2533274795123910;16567:
> Result in that video was that despite an increased movement Speed and sprinting, Halo 5’s time to travel was close to identical to that of Halo 3’s from corresponding places on both maps.
I know exactly which video your talking about, and the video I made is actually a direct response to that video entirely. BTW, the video was made on May 29th, 2017. The whole “120% speed” for the map Truth on Halo 5 is 100% not the way to go in order to mimic H3 on H5.
By increasing the BMS to 120%, not only are you going above and beyond H3’s BMS by a whole lot more (estimate to be like, 30-40% faster?), you’re essentially making a slightly slower Doom/Quake clone at that point. It just doesn’t make any sense at all. Also, the video only showed one location, not the entire map itself at all.
> 2535406126289417;16568:
> So , are you just a fan of sprint in halo , or All armor abilities , spartan abilities , some abilities in other franchises have that aren’t in the game yet , or all of the above ?
This matters because…? I’m only stating what’s obvious, with test to back up what I’m saying. Being a fan of Sprint, or not a fan doesn’t really matter at all in this discussion and me showing this information would expose the classical “well your biased so ur results are false” argument. Same goes for Spartan Abilites/Armor abilites. I’ve seen it happen way to many times.
> 2533274887581216;16570:
> > 2533274795123910;16567:
> > Result in that video was that despite an increased movement Speed and sprinting, Halo 5’s time to travel was close to identical to that of Halo 3’s from corresponding places on both maps.
>
> I know exactly which video your talking about, and the video I made is actually a direct response to that video entirely. BTW, the video was made on May 29th, 2017. The whole “120% speed” for the map Truth on Halo 5 is 100% not the way to go in order to mimic H3 on H5.
>
> By increasing the BMS to 120%, not only are you going above and beyond H3’s BMS by a whole lot more (estimate to be like, 30-40% faster?), you’re essentially making a slightly slower Doom/Quake clone at that point. It just doesn’t make any sense at all. Also, the video only showed one location, not the entire map itself at all.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535406126289417;16568:
> > So , are you just a fan of sprint in halo , or All armor abilities , spartan abilities , some abilities in other franchises have that aren’t in the game yet , or all of the above ?
>
> This matters because…? I’m only stating what’s obvious, with test to back up what I’m saying. Being a fan of Sprint, or not a fan doesn’t really matter at all in this discussion and me showing this information would expose the classical “well your biased so ur results are false” argument. Same goes for Spartan Abilites/Armor abilites. I’ve seen it happen way to many times.
Seen it all before, I don’t buy into it one way or another. These video don’t prove or disprove anything. there’s plenty of data out there on bms, Spartan abilities, maps time to kill, I’ve played shooters enough to know how a game feels and if it’s fun thats the only metric that’s important to me
> 2535406126289417;16571:
> Seen it all before, I don’t buy into it one way or another. These video don’t prove or disprove anything. there’s plenty of data out there on bms, Spartan abilities, maps time to kill, I’ve played shooters enough to know how a game feels and if it’s fun thats the only metric that’s important to me
I honestly have no idea what your replying to here now. These videos prove quite a lot actually. Yes, the data I just provided shows H5’s BMS is much faster then Halo 3’s. Even Naqser knows this.
Time to kill has remained relatively unchanged, you know that right? In fact Halo 5 generally has a higher TTK due to everyone using the pistol, rather then the BR, DMR, or LR. LR has the fastest TTK btw, yet barely anyone uses it due to difficulty when using it properly.
If the only thing that matters to you is whether or not a game is fun, then why are you here? This is the Sprint discussion thread after all.
> 2533274887581216;16572:
> > 2535406126289417;16571:
> > Seen it all before, I don’t buy into it one way or another. These video don’t prove or disprove anything. there’s plenty of data out there on bms, Spartan abilities, maps time to kill, I’ve played shooters enough to know how a game feels and if it’s fun thats the only metric that’s important to me
>
> I honestly have no idea what your replying to here now. These videos prove quite a lot actually. Yes, the data I just provided shows H5’s BMS is much faster then Halo 3’s. Even Naqser knows this.
>
> Time to kill has remained relatively unchanged, you know that right? In fact Halo 5 generally has a higher TTK due to everyone using the pistol, rather then the BR, DMR, or LR. LR has the fastest TTK btw, yet barely anyone uses it due to difficulty when using it properly.
>
> If the only thing that matters to you is whether or not a game is fun, then why are you here? This is the Sprint discussion thread after all.
I don’t need a video to confirm h5 bms is quicker, play the game for 2 mins it’s obvious . Sprint and the various spartan abilities contribute to weather the game is fun, because I don’t geek out on trying to one up people with videos to prove I’m right doesn’t mean I don’t have a right to be involved in a forum. And yes I’m very aware of the time to kill in all shooters and how it interacts with the combat loop as well mechanics like sprint. I don’t need a video essay for that I can critically think for myself.
[deleted]
> 2533274887581216;16569:
> > 2533274795123910;16564:
> >
>
>
>
> > 2533275001522797;16565:
> > I appreciate the try but there ae a few problems. First off you say older Halo games. There is a S after game meaning plural or more than one yet only one Halo game is in the video. Second, that game is Halo 3 which has the slowest movement speed out of every Halo game I think. Third, the examples all don’t start in the same exact place. Fourth, Halo 5’s remade Heretic map isn’t going to have the exact dimensions of the original. I’m pretty sure it’s smaller than the Halo 3 version.
>
> There’s literally no problems with the video, and the remade Heretic map in H5 isn’t smaller then the original at all.
So, where is the proof? Am I just supposed to take your word for it? Have you actually measured it?
> 2533274887581216;16569:
> > 2533274795123910;16564:
> >
>
>
>
> > 2533275001522797;16565:
> >
>
> In fact I’d argue it’s actually slightly bigger in some area’s of the map then it is in the original.
Did you use those parts in the video?
> 2535429841057677;16574:
> That’s because the majority of players actually left a while ago. Sprint being one of the main reasons why. I won’t bother arguing with you about money. What was done with the advertising leading up to Halo 5 was borderline illegal. The story speaks for itself.
Just so you know, if you click the box in the top right corner, you can delete everyone elses replies/names and just reply to me solely rather then everyone I replied to at once. A majority of Halo players actually returned to H5’s competitive MP, and are pretty much here to stay to this very day.
What was done with advertising H5 wasn’t borderline illegal at all, not even sure why you’re trying to state that it is.
> 2533274887581216;16569:
> I was a bit tired when I made that comment and didn’t read your guys original comments to the fullest detail, so I just assumed all of you were talking about Halo 5’s Sprint mechanic and the classic “it doesn’t increase your speed” across maps, even though it does, and the video I posted shows that it does. I included the BMS comparisons just because theirs also people out there who think the BMS is the same, or slower in H5 vs H1-H3.
>
> Like I said, theirs people out there who don’t think this at all (I’ve met them, and argued with them before about it.) Use my video to prove them wrong.
Fair enough, as there are some people who believe so.
Bolded, but this is pretty much semantics.
Yes, you do have a higher velocity, but as has been stated, time is a metric used, as such, in terms of getting anywhere quicker or slower, the speed at which you travel is the deciding factor on how long you have to travel.
If we were to take the hypothetical scenario that both bms and sprint was actually slower than the original trilogy’s bms, you wouldn’t get anywhere slower in terms of time. In velocity? Yes, in time, if current metric map design philosophies would be used for that map design scenario, no. Would it make for good gameplay with really slow bms and sprint? Most likely not but quality of gameplay isn’t part of the discussion for that particular scenario.
> 2533274887581216;16569:
> I didn’t state Halo 5 was “only popular because it has sprint” I stated it seems to be pretty popular to this day, with the competitive scene even coming back to Halo because of H5. Why exactly? Balanced maps, balanced gameplay, balanced weapon layouts, weapons don’t necessarily over power one another, and the Sprint mechanic in particular just “works” in Halo 5’s sand box for competitive players.
No, not directly, but one can certainly easily interpret your statements in that manner though.
If we want to ponder about the competitive scene coming back, which time frame are we talking about? I’ve never followed competitive Halo, but I have read atleast the headlines when such articles have popped up. So, my encounters with such headlines has been this, when Halo 5 released, there were some headlines regarding Halo 5’s tournaments, however as of late, I haven’t seen any tournament articles regarding Halo 5, however Halo 3 has seen a comeback, to my surprise.
I’m pretty sure sprint in Halo 5 works for Halo 5’s sandbox as it was there when the game was designed, and had to be taken into consideration, and as such “works” in a competitive spectrum. As I haven’t followed any competitive scene, I’m not aware of which big old competitive players still are present. I do remember some bigger names did comment on it, not being that impressed with sprint, back in the day.
> 2533274887581216;16569:
> Fast pace generally means the movement surrounding the game is incredibly quick, lots of things happen all at once, things you can’t even really control. When people talk about Halo CE in terms of “fast pace” they’re actually talking about how long games last, not it being “fast paced”, It’s a common misconception as to what fast paced actually means. Comparing Halo 5 to Halo CE, you have a ton more things happening incredibly quickly all at once in H5 by far.
So any game which has a lot of stuff going on at once, what kind of stuff exactly?
A Halo CE 4v4 Slayer match on Rat’s Nest with first to 50 kills ending faster than a Halo 5’s Slayer Match on Empire doesn’t mean Halo CE would be faster paced because there’s still more actions happening per minute and mechanics going off in Halo 5?
Are different definitions of “fast paced” used for Halo CE and Halo 5? Why?
> 2533274887581216;16569:
> Define long period of time. Going from point A to point B in 5 seconds from spawn isn’t really “that” long at all, and can be quickly stopped the moment you see a player in front of you.
How long does melee generally disable shooting? 0,5? 0,75 seconds? A grenade toss is quite quick as well.
Perhaps long time is poorly worded, so let’s change it to something more usable.
The longer you sprint the more value you get out of it, but that means sprinting for a considerable amount of time. As you won’t get much out of it sprinting for 1 second or 2 as the distance difference between bms and sprint at that short of a usage is barely noticeable. The more value you want from it the more you need to disable your other abilities and sacrifice part of your mobility in exchange for a forward speed boost. Neither of the other abilities affect movement in any other way, and only disrupt the other abilities for a split second, while netting you value if it connects, but there is not much value lost if you fail.
Being able to quickly stop if you see an enemy infront of you is hardly anything to put in the christmas tree for sprint.
> 2533274887581216;16569:
> Not intended, but still used in the competitive scene, and even banned at times. By this logic, H2 was intended to have sprint by the developers but got cut last minute due to unfinished animations and likely over-all an unfinished balance layout. In my eyes H2’s Coagulation was a map that was actually intended to actually use sprint before it got cut. So was a large majority of Halo 2’s’ campaign missions funny enough.
Oh please, a glitch is an unforseen issue in the game which by definition was never intended to be there. Button combos and super jumping were glitches, doesn’t matter what the competitive scene did with them.
Yes, Halo 2 does lack sprinting animations for most weapons, could be though that the work on those animations wasn’t continued as sprint was cut due to “pacing issues”, never reaching further than prototyping. So, you think that an integral part of the game, sprinting, was cut when the Map design teams for MP and SP were told that sprint would definately be there, with some very specific metrics for how it’d work?
Not as drastical but it’d kind of be like testing prone, having map designers design maps with prone specific things, and then cutting prone out entirely.
> 2533274795123910;16564:
> Also, yet again, time to travel is based on Speed and distance. The time to travel is up to the designer.
> 8 seconds to get from A to B is the same in all Halo’s.
> 2533274887581216;16569:
> I would actually love to dispute this and see whether or not if this is actually true at all.
Your time to travel a specific distance: Time = Distance / Speed
Who exactly if not the designer(s) of the maps decide how long it has to take to get from one place on a map to another?
Well, while I can’t really prove that 8 seconds in Halo CE, is as long as 8 seconds in any other Halo, I do believe that’d fall under the realm of some Quantum Mechanics, and I do find it hard to believe that anyone, ever, has been able to program something which alter the actual laws of physics, let alone Quantum Physics.
So, that assumption does lead me to believe, that 8 seconds in Halo CE, is infact, 8 seconds in any other Halo in existance.
> 2533274887581216;16569:
> Do you know of any video evidence/proof which shows it’s exactly the same across all Halo’s from Halo 1, 2, 3, Reach, and 4?
Video.
Halo CE picture.
Halo 3 Picture.
Halo Reach Picture.
I’ve lost the Halo 2 one but I’m sure it’s circulating somewhere.
> 2533274887581216;16569:
> That’s how long most matches generally last out of my 5,000+ Arena games in Halo 5 alone. Including Warzone I’d have around 6.5k or so matches in total for Halo 5 in it’s entirety. I’m only basing that 10 minute number off of experience, nothing else.
And that number signifies, what exactly?
> 2533274887581216;16569:
> Pretty sure corner leaning, wall hugging, blind firing, hot potatoing (what even is this?) were never going to be mechanics in any of the current Halo titles at all to begin with, so I don’t really know how they could’ve been cut content. Correct me if I’m wrong though. This doesn’t mean they can’t appear in future Halo titles.
Sprint belonging in Halo, “just like any other ability does”, pretty much means that any other ability belongs in Halo, which happens to include all the ones I listed.
Any and all of those mechanics could very well have been on the drawing table for any Halo, as far as I’m concerned, it was never about “cut content”.
> 2533274887581216;16570:
> What other mechanics? Most mechanics that got scrapped from older Halo titles due to being unfinished or some other reason, generally made a come back in future Halo titles quite often. Sprint is one of these abilites, which made a come back in Reach, and so far is here to stay permanently given how refined it’s gotten since then.
Hello dual wielding, flinching, greande indicators, armor abilities, equipment, plenty of game modes.
Redefined? It’s been nerfed again and again, it’s usability in some of its areas driven down, and the major driving point for its inclusion from i343 was “player expectations”.
“Permanently” is quite a strong word to use, considering the many different things that have been said to be here to stay, only to get axed later.
> 2533274887581216;16570:
> I know exactly which video your talking about, and the video I made is actually a direct response to that video entirely. BTW, the video was made on May 29th, 2017. The whole “120% speed” for the map Truth on Halo 5 is 100% not the way to go in order to mimic H3 on H5.
By increasing the BMS to 120%, not only are you going above and beyond H3’s BMS by a whole lot more (estimate to be like, 30-40% faster?), you’re essentially making a slightly slower Doom/Quake clone at that point. It just doesn’t make any sense at all. Also, the video only showed one location, not the entire map itself at all.
You do realise that increasing Halo 5’s bms speed to 120% was not to mimic Halo 3? But to showcase that with an increased bms speed on Halo 5, you can, without sprint, reach the samish times to travel over a map similar to that of Halo 3’s midship.
Slightly slower Doom / Quake clone?
Pardon me but I do think that there are some more factors on how a game plays other than the basic movement speed, so no, that part of yours does not make any sense at all.
Well I guess that if you don’t trust the video you could test out the entire map?
[deleted]
> 2533274887581216;16562:
> > 2533274833081329;16547:
> > IMO because some people see it from a different perspective, and sees the opposite…
>
> Anyone who see’s it in a different perspective or attempts to say that older Halo games had faster base movement speed, are wrong. The video shown here proves why:
Trust me, I am very aware of the exact base movement speeds in each Halo game.
There’s already a video about CE-Reach. Tsassi did one for Halo 4 and Halo 5. No comparisons to other games either - literally an objective number.
I even use those figures and compare them to real life scenarios explicitly to counter the “lore” argument and the belief that Chief walks no faster than a real life human.
Just gonna throw some numbers.
In Halo 3, one world unit is 10 feet, or about 3 meters.
In Halo 3, the player moves at 2.25 units per second, or 22.5 feet per second, or 6.858 meters per second.
The average person’s running speed is about 10-15 miles per hour, or a maximum 6.7056 meters per second.
So Chief is moving pretty much 24/7 at a person’s top speed at peak performance, just not anywhere near Olympic sprinters. If he was running the Boston Marathon, he’d beat the world record time by like 20 minutes…
…while holding a gun…
…going backwards.
Unfortunately, my comment had nothing to do with that (as Naqser said). It was only about the claim that this one mechanic named “Sprint” is the only way to increase speed and mobility, ignoring the half dozen other ways the Halo series has done it.
But to go with your comment, it would actually be more correct to say “older Halo games had faster base movement speed.” Comparing the 3 older games (CE, 2, & 3) to the 3 newer games (Reach, 4, and 5), two out of the three newer Halo games have a slower base movement speed than the original trilogy. Only Halo 5 has a faster Base Movement speed than the original series, and therefore the fastest in the entire series.
> 2533274795123910;16577:
> If we were to take the hypothetical scenario that both bms and sprint was actually slower than the original trilogy’s bms, you wouldn’t get anywhere slower in terms of time.
If you were to make the bms, and sprint slower, but play on the exact H5 maps we have today. It’d take much more time to travel, and games would probably last longer. Not entirely sure what you meant by velocity, because if both sprint and bms speed is slower, velocity would also be slower. It’d change the gameplay quite a lot, and certain map strategies would no longer work either.
> 2533274795123910;16577:
> If we want to ponder about the competitive scene coming back, which time frame are we talking about?
Technically speaking the “competitive scene” has always existed, it was even there during H4. When people talk about the competitive scene coming back, they’re talking about it getting massively popular again. During both Reach, and 4, the competitive scene may as well been dead in terms of actual popularity. (think of this as more of an understatement, because it really wasn’t as bad as people make it out to be).
> 2533274795123910;16577:
> So, my encounters with such headlines has been this, when Halo 5 released, there were some headlines regarding Halo 5’s tournaments, however as of late, I haven’t seen any tournament articles regarding Halo 5, however Halo 3 has seen a comeback, to my surprise.
Not really sure how you’ve missed all the headlines, because 343 post about them quite often. They also pop up all the time on the main HCS Twitter account to. Plenty of other places as well.
The main HCS events for H5 just ended at the end of last year to and was quite a big thing for a lot of people as well. To 343, H5 is now considered a legacy competitive title (just like all the other Halo titles) and it’s competitive tournaments are now funded by the Halo: Grassroots stuff. H5 tournaments are still going on to this day even as well under the Grassroots program, and many of those H1-3 tournaments you hear about are also done under Grassroots.
> 2533274795123910;16577:
> I do remember some bigger names did comment on it, not being that impressed with sprint, back in the day.
Most teams hated Reach’s implementation of it, along with Reach’s gun design, map layouts, bloom, and more. That’s kinda where all the hate for Sprint even comes from in the 1st place.
> 2533274795123910;16577:
> So any game which has a lot of stuff going on at once, what kind of stuff exactly?
> A Halo CE 4v4 Slayer match on Rat’s Nest with first to 50 kills ending faster than a Halo 5’s Slayer Match on Empire doesn’t mean Halo CE would be faster paced because there’s still more actions happening per minute and mechanics going off in Halo 5?
Fast-Paced generally applies to the entire game, not game time. Fast-Paced involves every single object, weapon, bullet, spartans moving, etc.
**Fast paced = including a lot of different things happening quickly. **Rats nest doesn’t even exist in Halo CE, it’s only in Halo 3, so not entirely sure why you brought that map up. Also, 4v4’s? Isn’t that an 8v8 map? I can’t help but wonder if you meant Rat Race instead.
BTW, match length time is not a valid argument to base something on at all, as match length time can vary widely and is highly dependent on each individuals players skill, how much they hide behind cover, spawn system, and more. It’s just way to many variables to consider when determining match length time as a candidate for “fast-paced”. Doom and Quake for example is known to be extremely fast-paced, but competitive matches can vary anywhere from 8 minutes, to 15 minutes, and even above this. Something like Tribes matches can last hours even, but is considered to be the fastest paced one of them all.
Why would something that has competitive matches which go way above the 30 minute mark, be considered the god of fast paced titles? Wouldn’t make sense if game time determined whether a game was fast paced or not.
> 2533274795123910;16577:
> The longer you sprint the more value you get out of it, but that means sprinting for a considerable amount of time. As you won’t get much out of it sprinting for 1 second or 2 as the distance difference between bms and sprint at that short of a usage is barely noticeable.
1 second in a fast paced competitive shooter is huge, like, really huge. That’s quite a long difference, as positions on the maps can be changed in as little as 3-5 seconds. a 1-2 second difference is a pretty drastic change when including sprint, aka a huge value, so not entirely sure what you were going on about here.
> 2533274795123910;16577:
> Yes, Halo 2 does lack sprinting animations for most weapons, could be though that the work on those animations wasn’t continued as sprint was cut due to “pacing issues”, never reaching further than prototyping.
Technically speaking it was already past prototyping, the animations were the last things that needed proper testing (you can tell because most of the animations are pretty awful). The animator himself even mentions that none of the animations got past said “testing phase” at all.As for the so called pacing issues stuff, honestly I can’t find anything on that subject or with Marcus Lehto even stating it. Not even in the reddit source Gamecheat listed off in his video, it’s just not there. I’d love to see where this was actually mentioned by one of the MP designers of H2 and the over-all balancing of the game*, rather then a person who just did the animations and may of heard a thing or 2 about it. .*
> 2533274795123910;16577:
> So, you think that an integral part of the game, sprinting, was cut when the Map design teams for MP and SP were told that sprint would definately be there, with some very specific metrics for how it’d work?
Halo 2’s development was generally really bad. 18 months from release they literally cut the entire engine, and started from scratch practically. The guy even says it was basically madness. Other ex-H2 dev’s have been quoted saying the same thing as well about H2’s development just being a chaotic mess.
Halo 3’s development also apparently consisted of them being slammed for time (they had way to many ideas that never appeared in the full release that they already developed on, and had animations for and everything. Even entire missions, scrapped and gutted. I’m sure you know of this though if you’ve seen any of the H3 documentaries.)
> 2533274795123910;16578:
> So, that assumption does lead me to believe, that 8 seconds in Halo CE, is infact, 8 seconds in any other Halo in existance.
I was under the impression that you were stating the base movement speed was identical from Halo 1, to 3. If this is truly the case, it’d take exactly 8 seconds (in the real world) to travel identical distances in Halo 1-3.
Let’s say it only took me 5 seconds to travel 5 feet in Halo 1, if the base movement speed was identical in Halo 2, 3, and Reach, it should also only take me 5 seconds to travel 5 feet. If it takes me more time to travel the same distance, this would mean the BMS is slower. I’ve also seen other people state Reach’s BMS is actually slightly slower even to, but I made another video which disproves this entirely.
> 2533274795123910;16578:
> Video.
> Halo CE picture.
> Halo 3 Picture.
> Halo Reach Picture.
Taking a look at the values in each game and seeing they are the same doesn’t really prove anything, as 0.512 walking speed in Halo 1 could be 0.700 walking speed in Halo 3 due to how different the engines are. **Here’s the video I was talking about earlier which more or less proves just this, and BMS in H2 is actually identical to Reach’s (despite everyone claiming it’s actually slower), but H1’s BMS is actually faster by 6-7 milliseconds give or take. **The H1 test shown in the video was done on H1 MCC, but I did a comparison with H1 OG to and the time frame was also identical in time, down to the millisecond. I just didn’t include the H1 OG comparison because I couldn’t be bothered with editing out the splitscreen stuff/making it look nice in the video. (you can’t start a H1 MP match without a second player being there as well, by LAN or by split screen.)
As for the video you show, the video I made doesn’t really seem to agree with it at all. Either that, or the guy doing that test didn’t account for the millisecond differences, because it’s very obvious.
> 2533274795123910;16578:
> Sprint belonging in Halo, “just like any other ability does”, pretty much means that any other ability belongs in Halo, which happens to include all the ones I listed.
> Any and all of those mechanics could very well have been on the drawing table for any Halo, as far as I’m concerned, it was never about “cut content”.
Yes, any other ability that works in Halo’s play style belongs in it for each specific title. People can claim “this ability doesn’t belong in Halo” all they want, but it’s not going to stop them from appearing in future Halo titles. I was referring to past abilities that were in Halo at one point, such as Equipment in H3, Armor abilities in Reach and 4, and finally the new Spartan Abilities in Halo 5. They all belong in Halo.
> 2533274795123910;16578:
> Hello dual wielding, flinching, greande indicators, armor abilities, equipment, plenty of game modes.
Dual wielding wasn’t scrapped, it was in H2, and H3. It never made the drawing board for Reach, and 343 hasn’t seen any reason to add it back in since. Not only that, you said ability as in: armor abilities, etc, and dual wielding isn’t exactly an “ability” more so a game mechanic. The same goes for grenade indicators.
Equipment was again, not scrapped, it simply got replaced with Armor abilities (in fact it’s even called a alteration of equipment on the Halopedia page), and as far as I’m aware to Bungie, armor abilities are the upgraded version of equipment.
Not really sure what you were going on about with the “game mode” part, as many different game modes have existed in each Halo title, but the dominant one of them all is Slayer.
> 2533274795123910;16578:
> Redefined? It’s been nerfed again and again
Sprint hasn’t gotten a single nerf in any of the Halo titles, what? How fast it is has changed from title to title yes, but the ability itself has never been nerfed in each specific title. It’s movement speed has remained identical since launch in each title. This by definition does not qualify as a nerf.
> 2533274795123910;16578:
> it’s usability in some of its areas driven down
Usability has remained largely the same, if anything it’s more useful in H5 then ever because it allows you to do certain jumps that would otherwise not be possible at all in the classic Halo design. I’ve seen long paths in H3 that could’ve easily been jumped over if Sprint was a thing. Sprint’s usability involves jumping larger distances, and moving from point A to point B much faster. This hasn’t changed, so how has the usability gone down?
> 2533274795123910;16578:
> the major driving point for its inclusion from i343 was “player expectations”.
Can I get a source for this?
> 2533274795123910;16578:
> “Permanently” is quite a strong word to use, considering the many different things that have been said to be here to stay, only to get axed later.
By axed, you mean it doesn’t show up in a new Halo title yes?
So far, Sprint has been in 3 different Halo First person shooter titles. That’s basically as far as permanent goes when it comes to Halo. The BR has appeared in 4 different Halo First person shooter titles. Like Sprint, it’s basically expected to appear in the next Halo title, and may as well be permanent.
> 2533274795123910;16578:
> You do realise that increasing Halo 5’s bms speed to 120% was not to mimic Halo 3? But to showcase that with an increased bms speed on Halo 5, you can, without sprint, reach the samish times to travel over a map similar to that of Halo 3’s midship.
Samish times to travel? With 120% BMS in H5, your traveling over a much larger distance in a shorter amount of time, which just so happens to some-what match Halo 3’s time to travel across Midship at it’s base BMS speed.
By this logic, changing my BMS speed in H5 to 200%, the time to cross Glacier, just so happens to match the amount of time required to travel the map Valhalla in Halo 3 at 150%. Keep in mind these numbers I just made up don’t actually mean anything. See how this just doesn’t make any sense to do now? It’s illogical at best, and doesn’t show anything of the sort at all. This video shows the correct way to do it on the other hand.
> 2533274833081329;16580:
> Trust me, I am very aware of the exact base movement speeds in each Halo game.
**This video shouldn’t surprise you at all then. **Nor should the 6-7 milisecond difference between Reach’s BMS and Halo 1’s BMS also surprise you. In fact, Halo 2’s BMS seems to be identical/match that of Reach’s entirely despite the common belief that Reach’s BMS is somehow “slower” but it’s not. Haven’t managed to do the test with Halo 3 though, because I don’t know of any proper Forged remakes of it in H3.
> 2533274833081329;16580:
> I even use those figures and compare them to real life scenarios explicitly to counter the “lore” argument and the belief that Chief walks no faster than a real life human.
Chief can walk faster then a real life Human if he chose to do so, but will purposely limit himself to walk slower depending on the situation so regular normal humans can keep up with him. You can see him doing this quite a lot in just about every instance he’s seen walking alongside a “normal” human.
Using in-game figures to explain the “lore” though isn’t exactly the smartest of ideas, because usually in-game stuff doesn’t apply to the actual lore at all unless it’s seen in a cut scene, or the books. This is getting off topic though, so either just don’t reply to this part of the comment, or keep it simple honestly.
> 2533274833081329;16580:
> But to go with your comment, it would actually be more correct to say “older Halo games had faster base movement speed.” Comparing the 3 older games (CE, 2, & 3) to the 3 newer games (Reach, 4, and 5), two out of the three newer Halo games have a slower base movement speed than the original trilogy.
Which of these Halo titles have a slower BMS? I just proved that CE’s BMS is faster then H2’s, and H2’s BMS is identical to Reach’s. Not sure on H4’s yet (haven’t done any test on it), but I have heard that H4’s BMS is apparently identical to either H3’s, or Reach’s. Your wording here is still incorrect though, because it doesn’t matter how many of the classic Halo titles there is which has a specifc BMS speed. If it’s slower, then it’s slower. Older Halo games have a slower base movement speed then H5 does.
Sprint is here to stay. I’d make no sense if we had a feature that regular soldiers do every day in war for almost a decade and go back to being overly nostalgic. If regular soldiers can run, so can genetically enhanced supersoldiers.
> 2533275016441431;16583:
> Sprint is here to stay. I’d make no sense if we had a feature that regular soldiers do every day in war for almost a decade and go back to being overly nostalgic. If regular soldiers can run, so can genetically enhanced supersoldiers.
It’s a video game , in game mechanics don’t need to make sense from a lore perspective as any narrative can be applied either in game or from outside sources , or in some cases not at all . So now we debunked that urban myth , sprint may or may not be here to stay as it’s a game mechanic and the devs can add or take mechanics as they please , mechanics need to fit the sandbox and combat loop not the lore arguement
> 2533274887581216;16582:
> Taking a look at the values in each game and seeing they are the same doesn’t really prove anything, as 0.512 walking speed in Halo 1 could be 0.700 walking speed in Halo 3 due to how different the engines are.
Except we already know that World Units are consistent across the game and across each engine in the series. You can even check this with Forge, because using those coordinates World Units and Forge Units were interchangeable (except Halo 5 by a factor of 10). If the World Units are a constant, then the player’s movement speed value in X game is also comparable to each other, because all it is is World Units/Time.
Which is what the video did and how the results match (within reason) to the values found in the game’s files and showed in Naqser’s pictures. Otherwise comparing Halo CE’s 2.25 to Halo 5’s 2.6 is useless because they represent two different incomparable units.
> 2533274887581216;16582:
> > 2533274795123910;16578:
> > the major driving point for its inclusion from i343 was “player expectations”.
>
> Can I get a source for this?
I’m pretty sure he means this video.
> 2533274887581216;16582:
> > 2533274833081329;16580:
> > But to go with your comment, it would actually be more correct to say “older Halo games had faster base movement speed.” Comparing the 3 older games (CE, 2, & 3) to the 3 newer games (Reach, 4, and 5), two out of the three newer Halo games have a slower base movement speed than the original trilogy.
>
> If it’s slower, then it’s slower. Older Halo games have a slower base movement speed then H5 does.
You didn’t have to bold that statement as if I was against it. No was was (directly) arguing against that. 2.6 > 2.25. Even the comment you quoted (and left out for some reason) said “Only Halo 5 has a faster Base Movement speed than the original series, and therefore the fastest in the entire series.”
