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> > > > > > > > > > > 4. Well then what’ve you accomplished? All you have then is a slightly faster Halo 2/3, which doesn’t make a good compromise.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Isn’t that exactly what people wanted in the first place? To move faster than Halo 2 & Halo 3 because they felt so slow? That’s basically the main complaint (both satirical and legitimate) in this thread about those two.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Like there’s the solution, it solved the problem that everyone was having. The game is not (as) slow anymore, and there’s no Sprint animation anymore. What’s the problem here?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The weapons sucked? That’s a sandbox problem. Maps are too large? That’s a map design problem. Sprint never made any of them better (more people argue it made them worse).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That’s the main complaint for a lot of people, but my main complaint is in that H1-3 felt restricted. A slow game can be serviced by map design, but a feeling of restriction boils down to the fundamental classic movement system itself. That’s why I’d rather keep sprint. Illusion or not, it definitely feels more free than the one geared system. I also prefer it because 2 geared caters to my flanking playstyle a lot more than a universal max speed.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Also, remark No.4 was a lot more about the increase proposed rather than the idea of increase in BMS itself. If I’m going to tolerate a classic movement system, I’d expect bigger maps to lessen nade spamming and a bigger bump than 15%. My big problems with classic movement were the terrible nade spam and the limiting feeling.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s a lot of use of the word feel.
> > >
> > > .
> >
> >
> >
> > > tactical shooters "are about caution, care, cooperation, coordination, planning, and pacing. In these games, making decisive pushes, quick moves for cover, strategic retreats, and last ditch grabs at the gold are not only important to success, but balanced in such a way that they become enjoyable activities in play
> >
> > That sounds a hellva lot more like Classic Halo to me. Classic Halo was far more tactical than Halo 5.
>
> 1) That’s still extremely easy to mitigate. The default setup can simply be changed to the Helljumper setup, and that setup’s been proven time and time again to be objectively superior to the default, and not just in the sprint aspect. What is now the “default” setup can be renamed to “H5”, and Helljumper can become the default.
>
> 2) What that boils down to is the way you define freedom. The way I see freedom in a video game (and how I think some others see it too, but that’s just my interpretation of pro EM responses) is how many options you have available to you all in all. In that sense, Classic is extremely restrictive because you’re limited to “walk, jump, crouch” in one gear.
>
> 2b) Grenade spamming is incredibly relevant to sprint, or should I say, the removal of sprint. The removal is sprint would bring about the shrinking of maps, meaning that splash damage would be infinitely more effective, thus incentivizing frequent grenade use. If it’s already bad in H5, it shouldn’t be exacerbated by returning to classic thus tightening maps and reducing movement speed.
>
> 3) Sprint is still a great interception tool. You don’t use sprint to get all up in their grill. Sprint is often used to take the long way and catch them before their destination by using the speed imbalance provided by sprinting. In that sense, it works wonders for games like CTF. And with that, it still holds that great flanking value that I’ve touched on before.
>
> Also, I find that classic Halo caters even more to lone wolf gameplay. That example you brought up with the “free kills” and the guy who defended his position is a classic example of punishment for lone wolfing. Sprint is used to prey on that kind of mistake of leaving your team’s territory and getting into a 1v1 with no backup. On the other hand, Classic Halo’s universal speed for everyone gives the other guy ample time to recharge his shields and probably even hide only to come back out and engage solo again. H5’s increased pace punishes this kind of soloing with sprint, which is why full fireteams happen to be so deadly in H5.
>
> 4) These traits can still easily be found in H5. As a matter of fact, with the lone wolf punishing aspect of sprint I touched on earlier in play here, they might even be found more than in Classic Halo.
Hope you don’t mind my throwing my .02 in here, but this particular response caught my attention.
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I don’t really disagree with the ‘you can customize your controller’s scheme to compensate for discomfort’.
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I’ve touched on this before in this thread… many… many… pages ago. It has to do with my feeling on depth vs complexity. I find little ‘freedom’ using Sprint, in addition to the other added mechanics like ground pound and spartan charge, etc. In fact, I often feel like Halo has become about as close to a ‘button masher’ as a FPS can get. Your opponent uses ability X, you counter with ability Y. And while I get that you don’t have to use a particular countering ability in any given situation, people will always gravitate towards a particular set of options that work well for their skills and play styles, regardless of how many are available. This just naturally leads to situations like ‘when he uses X, I counter with Y’. Not because Y is the only option, but because it’s the one that works best for me. This, to me, makes the game play feel repetitive… a pre-programmed set of button pushes for most given situations if that makes sense. It shows off the innovation of the game devs at the expense of asking the people who play it to be innovative with their tactics and thinking.
That doesn’t feel like freedom to me. It feels more like being coerced to commit to a specific set of button pushes for given situations and ends up feeling like the majority of the overall game play is pre-programmed. I’m not sure if that’s the best way I can explain it, but it’s the best I can come up with. With the first Halo games, I never once felt “limited to walk, jump, crouch. In one gear.” My thinking had to be in 3 gears. Out-plan, outwit, out-perform. And while newer Halo games retain that methodology somewhat, they just feel like it’s buried in a layer of fluff mechanics that make the game play feel more [singly] geared towards out-react[ionary button push], out-perform (because yes, skills are still required), outrun.
2b) You talk about grenade spamming as if it’s a fixed value and can’t be assuaged, based upon other variables like decreased movement speed and map design. Or at least that’s how it comes across. But that really isn’t the case at all. grenades are just as adjustable as map size and movement speed, in order to achieve a desired balance. Explosion radius, damage radius, damage falloff… all can be adjusted to compensate for map sizing and potential movement speed, no matter how much slower or faster that movement is.
3 [and 4]) Just because you don’t use sprint to ‘get all up in their grill’ doesn’t mean others won’t/don’t. YMMV. IMO sprint’s advantage as a “great interception tool” is limited to a few rare situations when your intended target doesn’t have access to it. Otherwise, it’s just a gamble taken when you take the long way and you hope they decided not to sprint. Also, I find full fireteams are pretty deadly no matter what game you’re playing. I’ve also found that lone wolf types will either be exceptionally lethal or exceptionally well acquainted with the death lobby no matter what game you’re playing and that is more dependent upon their skills / lack of skills than any game mechanic.
