The sprint discussion thread

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> > > > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
> >
> > But his compromise isn’t good enough for you, so what makes you any better?
> >
> > He’s not willing to play a game that has Sprint in it. You’re not willing to play a game that doesn’t have Sprint in it. You’ve literally gone on record and said you will simply not play Halo Infinite if Sprint is removed from the game, and it takes 343i to announce Sprint for you to even pre-order. It’s all or nothing for you just like how it’s all or nothing to him and a lot of other people here, just in the other direction.
>
> I know what I said but you’re taking it out of context and blowing it out of proportion to suit your needs for this debate (not surprised by your actions either).
>
> You literally went out of your way to quote me from another thread to what, try to throw it in my face in this discussion? That other thread was intended to discuss whether or not to pre order Halo Infinite and for me personally I’ll need to see that sprint is in the next Halo title in order to do so. That doesn’t mean that I’m not open to compromise on the issue- I still believe (while I’d rather not give in at all on losing sprint) that a split compromise would satisfy the majority of gamers. So I’m willing to accept sprint to a lesser extent than what I’d personally prefer to see in Infinite, but I’m not going to enjoy the game if it’s wholly without sprint. That is not at all the same all or nothing mentality that you diehard anti sprinters are demonstrating in this thread. For you there is zero room for compromise on this issue, despite what your so called “fellow fans,” think about sprint (if you’d even call us that). Furthermore you’re also demanding that we pro sprinters accept your biased logic trains on this discussion, regardless as to how we view sprint.

I didn’t take anything out of context. You said that “anti-Sprinters” are not one to accept compromise. Not just even the comment I quoted, this isn’t the first time you said that.

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> Nice of you to think to offer something like that.
>
> Generally speaking, anti sprinters have zero ability to accept any form of compromise. They want Halo to be made their way or no way at all with very little thought given to all of us modern Halo fans who prefer that 343i sticks with sprint and modern movement mechanics.

I used your quote because that area of discussion was about modern movement mechanics, and is relevant to this thread, which is about Sprint, a modern movement mechanic. That’s why you not only stopped at “won’t pre-order”, you won’t “buy or play it” without Sprint.

Realistically, there is no compromise between “with Sprint” or “without Sprint”, it’s a binary issue; it exists or doesn’t exist. The only real solution is if 343i makes the equivalent of two separate games to suit both playstyles, which even then isn’t ideal because you’d have two copies of each playlist, one with and one without Sprint.

Notice how I didn’t say there’s no compromise between “faster movement” and “slower movement”, because that’s not the same thing.

That’s why other people offered different solutions that you conveniently ignored when making that bold claim above. That’s why I offered the suggestion: “Make a classic game with one modern playlist with Sprint.” Apparently you and - in your words - “people who think like you” are okay with a “modern game with one classic playlist to appease us”, it shouldn’t be a problem when it’s the other way around, correct?

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> > > > > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
> > >
> > > But his compromise isn’t good enough for you, so what makes you any better?
> > >
> > > He’s not willing to play a game that has Sprint in it. You’re not willing to play a game that doesn’t have Sprint in it. You’ve literally gone on record and said you will simply not play Halo Infinite if Sprint is removed from the game, and it takes 343i to announce Sprint for you to even pre-order. It’s all or nothing for you just like how it’s all or nothing to him and a lot of other people here, just in the other direction.
> >
> > I know what I said but you’re taking it out of context and blowing it out of proportion to suit your needs for this debate (not surprised by your actions either).
> >
> > You literally went out of your way to quote me from another thread to what, try to throw it in my face in this discussion? That other thread was intended to discuss whether or not to pre order Halo Infinite and for me personally I’ll need to see that sprint is in the next Halo title in order to do so. That’s my own personal decision too- I’m not trying to encourage others to join me in that cause or to force my ideations on you like you anti sprinters routinely do here. That doesn’t mean that I’m not open to compromise on the issue- I still believe (while I’d rather not give in at all on losing sprint) that a split compromise would satisfy the majority of gamers. So I’m willing to accept sprint to a lesser extent than what I’d personally prefer to see in Infinite, but I’m not going to enjoy the game if it’s wholly without sprint. That is not the same all or nothing mentality that you diehard anti sprinters are taking with you into this debate. For you there is zero room for compromise on this issue, despite what your so called “fellow fans,” think about sprint (if you’d even call us that).
>
> How do you do a compromise on sprint, without making it worse for both?

Simple- If you’re 343i you listen to your fan base and propose a viable solution to appeal to the majority of players.

In this case you listen by collecting feedback. You could do this qualitatively by analyzing social media and/or posting a Sprint Survey via the community feedback program.

You could also assess player preference on this issue easier and quantitatively by simply implementing both sprint and non sprint playlists in the Halo Infinite Beta and assessing which playlists are more popular. If they want to, they could even further augment this data with a subsequent community feedback survey after the beta.

If 343i does ultimately decide to do a split compromise they could satisfy both sprint and anti sprinters (true to lore) with an explanation by offering different armor suits to don before an “engagement.” Older generation MJOLNIR suits and a newer “Spartan IV,” suits of armor could offer justifiable explanations why there are different movement mechanics available in campaign and/or multiplayer playlists.

These are just me spitballing ideas and I understand these may not be perfect solutions to the issue but it could be a way for 343i to proceed.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
> > > >
> > > > But his compromise isn’t good enough for you, so what makes you any better?
> > > >
> > > > He’s not willing to play a game that has Sprint in it. You’re not willing to play a game that doesn’t have Sprint in it. You’ve literally gone on record and said you will simply not play Halo Infinite if Sprint is removed from the game, and it takes 343i to announce Sprint for you to even pre-order. It’s all or nothing for you just like how it’s all or nothing to him and a lot of other people here, just in the other direction.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > 2533274829213703;16005:
> > > > > > 2535444702990491;16004:
> > > > > > I know what I said but you’re taking it out of context and blowing it out of proportion to suit your needs for this debate (not surprised by your actions either).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You literally went out of your way to quote me from another thread to what, try to throw it in my face in this discussion? That other thread was intended to discuss whether or not to pre order Halo Infinite and for me personally I’ll need to see that sprint is in the next Halo title in order to do so. That’s my own personal decision too- I’m not trying to encourage others to join me in that cause or to force my ideations on you like you anti sprinters routinely do here. That doesn’t mean that I’m not open to compromise on the issue- I still believe (while I’d rather not give in at all on losing sprint) that a split compromise would satisfy the majority of gamers. So I’m willing to accept sprint to a lesser extent than what I’d personally prefer to see in Infinite, but I’m not going to enjoy the game if it’s wholly without sprint. That is not the same all or nothing mentality that you diehard anti sprinters are taking with you into this debate. For you there is zero room for compromise on this issue, despite what your so called “fellow fans,” think about sprint (if you’d even call us that).
> > > > >
> > > > > How do you do a compromise on sprint, without making it worse for both?
> > > >
> > > > Simple- If you’re 343i you listen to your fan base and propose a viable solution to appeal to the majority of players.
> > > >
> > > > In this case you listen by collecting feedback. You could do this qualitatively by analyzing social media and/or posting a Sprint Survey via the community feedback program.
> > > >
> > > > You could also assess player preference on this issue easier and quantitatively by simply implementing both sprint and non sprint playlists in the Halo Infinite Beta and assessing which playlists are more popular. If they want to, they could even further augment this data with a subsequent community feedback survey after the beta.
> > > >
> > > > If 343i does ultimately decide to do a split compromise they could satisfy both sprint and anti sprinters (true to lore) with an explanation by offering different armor suits to don before an “engagement.” Older generation MJOLNIR suits and a newer “Spartan IV,” suits of armor could offer justifiable explanations why there are different movement mechanics available in campaign and/or multiplayer playlists.
>
> These are just me spitballing ideas and I understand these may not be perfect solutions to the issue but it could be a way for 343i to proceed.

Surveys have already been done: https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2qpdbm/surprising_poll_results_sprint_halo_does_the/

In making two betas they would need different maps, guns, vehicles, aim assist, health, and so forth for the sprint and non sprint playlists to properly get it done, seeing as Halo 5 tried a no sprint playlist, but that didn’t work too well because all they did was remove sprint. I highly doubt they would do all the work and testing to get both to beta, let alone have the time to get the campaign, warzone, firefight, or whatever other modes they will include to be one or the other. BUT, this is a really good idea and I wish they would just have Halo 5 reskinned to have the community test both ways.

They issues with having both is that non sprinters would need something to make them equal in maneuvering to the sprinters, or the maps have to focus on the non-sprinters, thus giving the fast players an edge.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
>
> - I didn’t take anything out of context. You said that “anti-Sprinters” are not one to accept compromise. Not just even the comment I quoted, this isn’t the first time you said that.You absolutely took it out of context. You quoted me from a different thread about a separate discussion in an attempt to undermine my argument in this thread. You’re trying to utilize that quote to assert that I’m unwilling to compromise but that’s completely untrue. If the roles were reversed I’d either 1) try to ask you more about your reasons for not wanting to preorder the next Halo title and/or 2) accept that it’s your decision to make.
>
> > 2535444702990491;15794:
> > Generally speaking, anti sprinters have zero ability to accept any form of compromise. They want Halo to be made their way or no way at all with very little thought given to all of us modern Halo fans who prefer that 343i sticks with sprint and modern movement mechanics.
>
> - I used your quote because that area of discussion was about modern movement mechanics, and is relevant to this thread, which is about Sprint, a modern movement mechanic. That’s why you not only stopped at “won’t pre-order”, you won’t “buy or play it” without Sprint.You actually used my quote because it was convenient for you to toss it back at me to try to undermine my argument in this thread. Either way that’s my decision which was relevant to a completely different discussion and that still doesn’t mean that I’m not open to a split compromise; nor am I trying to force you to accept my ideas on the issue like you’re doing here in this thread. - Realistically, there is no compromise between “with Sprint” or “without Sprint”, it’s a binary issue; it exists or doesn’t exist.Maybe to you there’s “no [acceptable] compromise,” but for many others a split compromise could work for the next Halo title. Either way there are compromises that could be implemented which would include sprint; whether or not they live up to your standard is another issue. - Notice how I didn’t say there’s no compromise between “faster movement” and “slower movement”, because that’s not the same thing.Obviously, but this is not we’ve been discussing. - That’s why other people offered different solutions that you conveniently ignored when making that bold claim above. That’s why I offered the suggestion: “Make a classic game with one modern playlist with Sprint.” Apparently you and - in your words - “people who think like you” are okay with a “modern game with one classic playlist to appease us”, it shouldn’t be a problem when it’s the other way around, correct?I’ve heard you make this argument before and it’s just your satirical attempt to interject reverse logic into the debate. It’s not very clever either and I’m not amusing your sense of humor. Instead I’ll just back TBE Reek’s previous response to you on this one.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
> > > > >
> > > > > But his compromise isn’t good enough for you, so what makes you any better?
> > > > >
> > > > > He’s not willing to play a game that has Sprint in it. You’re not willing to play a game that doesn’t have Sprint in it. You’ve literally gone on record and said you will simply not play Halo Infinite if Sprint is removed from the game, and it takes 343i to announce Sprint for you to even pre-order. It’s all or nothing for you just like how it’s all or nothing to him and a lot of other people here, just in the other direction.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > > > > > I know what I said but you’re taking it out of context and blowing it out of proportion to suit your needs for this debate (not surprised by your actions either).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You literally went out of your way to quote me from another thread to what, try to throw it in my face in this discussion? That other thread was intended to discuss whether or not to pre order Halo Infinite and for me personally I’ll need to see that sprint is in the next Halo title in order to do so. That’s my own personal decision too- I’m not trying to encourage others to join me in that cause or to force my ideations on you like you anti sprinters routinely do here. That doesn’t mean that I’m not open to compromise on the issue- I still believe (while I’d rather not give in at all on losing sprint) that a split compromise would satisfy the majority of gamers. So I’m willing to accept sprint to a lesser extent than what I’d personally prefer to see in Infinite, but I’m not going to enjoy the game if it’s wholly without sprint. That is not the same all or nothing mentality that you diehard anti sprinters are taking with you into this debate. For you there is zero room for compromise on this issue, despite what your so called “fellow fans,” think about sprint (if you’d even call us that).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How do you do a compromise on sprint, without making it worse for both?
> > > > >
> > > > > Simple- If you’re 343i you listen to your fan base and propose a viable solution to appeal to the majority of players.
> > > > >
> > > > > In this case you listen by collecting feedback. You could do this qualitatively by analyzing social media and/or posting a Sprint Survey via the community feedback program.
> > > > >
> > > > > You could also assess player preference on this issue easier and quantitatively by simply implementing both sprint and non sprint playlists in the Halo Infinite Beta and assessing which playlists are more popular. If they want to, they could even further augment this data with a subsequent community feedback survey after the beta.
> > > > >
> > > > > If 343i does ultimately decide to do a split compromise they could satisfy both sprint and anti sprinters (true to lore) with an explanation by offering different armor suits to don before an “engagement.” Older generation MJOLNIR suits and a newer “Spartan IV,” suits of armor could offer justifiable explanations why there are different movement mechanics available in campaign and/or multiplayer playlists.
>
> Surveys have already been done.

No true acceptable surveys have been completed though. There have been countless surveys about sprint over the years (many of them indicate players want sprint, some do not); but they are completely inconclusive; often set up with biased questions in biased forums, and none of them have polled a proper representation of the entire community. If 343i wants to collect proper data then they should manage surveys on their own terms.

Also I think your idea for testing Halo 5 is interesting and would definitely produce useful feedback. They could do that and test the Infinite Beta IMO. It’s just a beta, I mean game mechanics and map design are almost always going to change in the final game so it doesn’t seem like an unreasonable feat for them. This is a highly controversial issue in the community so wouldn’t it be beneficial for them to use the beta as an opportunity to show they’re making a concerted effort to resolve this issue on their terms in a fair and consistent manner?

> 2535444702990491;16009:
> You absolutely took it out of context. You quoted me from a different thread about a separate discussion in an attempt to undermine my argument in this thread. You’re trying to utilize that quote to assert that I’m unwilling to compromise but that’s completely untrue. If the roles were reversed I’d either 1) try to ask you more about your reasons for not wanting to preorder the next Halo title and/or 2) accept that it’s your decision to make.
> That’s my decision to do so. But that still doesn’t mean that I’m not open to a split compromise; nor am I trying to force you to accept my ideas on the issue like you’re doing here in this thread.
>
> Maybe to you there’s “no [acceptable] compromise,” but for many others a split compromise could work for the next Halo title. Either way there are compromises that could be implemented; whether or not they live up to your standard is another issue.
>
> I’ve heard you make this argument before and it’s just your satirical way to interject reverse logic in the discussion. It’s not clever either and I’m not amusing your sense of humor. I’ll back TBE Reek’s previous response to you on this one.

Had to shorten that because quoting the whole thing is a mess.

The context of that discussion is people arguing why not to pre-order the next Halo game because of movement mechanics, false advertising, art, etc. etc. You said you wouldn’t buy because of a specific movement mechanics. Other people replied to you and you replied to them about movement mechanics, almost detracting from the pre-order side of the topic in the first place.

The other major reason why I bring up that quote because I continously ask you that question about Sprint, which you never answer:

> 2533274833081329;15917:
> <strong>“What makes Sprint this magical force that can never be removed or replaced? What makes it so important that you would straight up not buy the game if this one mechanic is missing?”</strong>

If I wanted to just ignore you and undermine your argument, I would go back to where you falsified and exaggerated claims about previous Halo games in this thread.

I’m not trying to force you to accept anything. At worst, I’m showing the hypocrisy of statements of some people here with trying to “appease” the anti-Sprinter side. At best, I’m trying to find out what makes Sprint so worth it, and how to re-create that without having to use the Sprint animation to do that, which also - to a point- shows people’s hypocrisy about how people want speed, but only when it’s in Sprint and nowhere else despite wanting a faster game. Hence, again, my quoted comment.

Halo 4 and Halo 5 are the epitome of “Trying to please everyone but end up pleasing no one.” It’s not even about Sprint vs No Sprint. It’s the same thing about Ranked vs Social matchmaking, Casual vs Competitive Community, Halo mechanics vs Call of Duty mechanics, really the list goes on. More often than not, trying to compromise makes things worse.

Again, Sprint is a binary issue; it exists or doesn’t exist. There’s no “it’s slightly there but not really”, because that contradicts the point of adding Sprint in the first place.

Every compromise that I’ve seen from anti-Sprinters here is either the equivalent of “Make 2 Halo games at the same time”, a subtle attempt to alienate “anti-Sprinters” more, or make a change to Sprint that doesn’t address the problem in the first place.

You’re right, my “classic game with one modern playlist” is a satirical argument. That’s why I offer it to those who offer the reverse. That’s why I responded to TBE Reek’s response, and chose to back Richnj’s response.

My real argument is again, my quoted comment. If there’s an answer to that, then we’re closer to a solution that determines why Sprint to say other than “the heart of Halo.”

I hate this idea, but what about a “sprint button” that makes you go into a sprint, BUT, your gun stays up. Much like the gung-ho perk in Call Of Duty. I’m sorry for referencing COD guys but it’s the only one I know that’s done it. Seems pretty good?? You can still aim and shoot while in it…

> 2533275025909973;16012:
> I hate this idea, but what about a “sprint button” that makes you go into a sprint, BUT, your gun stays up. Much like the gung-ho perk in Call Of Duty. I’m sorry for referencing COD guys but it’s the only one I know that’s done it. Seems pretty good?? You can still aim and shoot while in it…

I mean, if you can do everything in Sprint that you can do when not using Sprint, then why would you ever not Sprint? And at that point, why even need a Sprint button when you can just always move that speed?

xBalancedForcex
Tagging you since quoting fills the character cap.

I’ll give you that. Surveys rarely ever are everyone.

I really wish they would just do a really early alpha of sorts to allow both modes properly played and tested, since Halo 5 style maps and gameplay wouldn’t work well in Halo 3 and the other way around.

I still really think a compromise would not work because the “anti-sprinters” just don’t want sprint as an innate ability and the “pro-sprinters” do. Only other options I can see are having sprint be a pick up, or making two different games. The two games seems like the much better choice since more money for -Yoink!-, because some will buy both, and both sides get what they want. Sprint just affects too many aspects of the game.

Either way, I’d rather see sprint stay and end up not getting the game, than it try to please both and end up being completely retarded.

> 2533275025909973;16012:
> I hate this idea, but what about a “sprint button” that makes you go into a sprint, BUT, your gun stays up. Much like the gung-ho perk in Call Of Duty. I’m sorry for referencing COD guys but it’s the only one I know that’s done it. Seems pretty good?? You can still aim and shoot while in it…

I think just increasing the game speed and using the analog stick half way or all the way would accomplish this.

[deleted]

> 2535444702990491;16010:
> No true acceptable surveys have been completed though. There have been countless surveys about sprint over the years (many of them indicate players want sprint, some do not); but they are completely inconclusive; often set up with biased questions in biased forums, and none of them have polled a proper representation of the entire community. If 343i wants to collect proper data then they should manage surveys on their own terms.

343 already did a community feedback survey with sprint questions in it a long time ago, but I wouldn’t mind if they did another one. This is the only recent survey that I know of which polled four of the more known Halo communities including Waypoint and the sprint question was straightforward. Granted, the sample size isn’t huge and only represents a tiny fraction of the entire community, but that’s to be expected since most Halo forums aren’t huge to begin with and you’ll have people who don’t participate. Shockingly, Waypoint was the only forum out of the four which favored sprint.

When they reveil sprint or abilities in halo infinite in a couple of months.
Everybody who is a classic fan are done , taking there briefcase and leaving halo.

That’s why there fixing MCC because halo infinite is going to neglect all the classic fans somehow,and everyone will stroke over to the MCC.

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> > I’ve seen different to what you say on MCC.
>
> If you’re referring to CE, it’s not the same as the original with the most noticeable difference being the pistol is hitscan instead of projectile.
>
>
> > 2547348539238747;15999:
> > What we are trying to determine when we ask ‘what does Sprint provide that increased BMS doesn’t?’
>
> Only thing I can think of is they want to feel like they’re actually moving faster which sprinting accomplishes when the BMS is slower. Maybe they need some kind of visual representation of that or else they can’t connect the dots that they’re moving at similar speeds if the BMS was raised, but there’s only one speed. Of course, a simple animation could fix most of that.

whether its hit scan or projectile it doesn’t matter

> 2533274829213703;16015:
> > 2533275025909973;16012:
> > I hate this idea, but what about a “sprint button” that makes you go into a sprint, BUT, your gun stays up. Much like the gung-ho perk in Call Of Duty. I’m sorry for referencing COD guys but it’s the only one I know that’s done it. Seems pretty good?? You can still aim and shoot while in it…
>
> I think just increasing the game speed and using the analog stick half way or all the way would accomplish this.

if your gun stays up while sprinting what’s the point in sniping or not running?

Increasing movement speed is the solution.
Like halo 3 but movement increasment by 20-30%
"There your fast without being fast "
That’s why halo 3 was the best

> 2533274830420921;16018:
> When they reveil sprint or abilities in halo infinite in a couple of months.
> Everybody who is a classic fan are done , taking there briefcase and leaving halo.

Yeah, yeah - anti sprinters said the same thing before Halo 5 and yet they still played it and they’re still here…

> 2535444702990491;16022:
> > 2533274830420921;16018:
> > When they reveil sprint or abilities in halo infinite in a couple of months.
> > Everybody who is a classic fan are done , taking there briefcase and leaving halo.
>
> Yeah, yeah - anti sprinters said the same thing before Halo 5 and yet they still played it and they’re still here…

1.That’s not true,halo 5 has 5-6 million players, halo 3 had 13 million.

2.People who are playing halo 5 ( like myself) are playing because MCC doesn’t work at all.

3.When MCC gets fixed ,everybody from h5 are migrating to MCC.

  1. Anti- sprinters are not here there gone. Halo 5 is dead, can’t find any games anymore online except infection.

> 2533274830420921;16021:
> Increasing movement speed is the solution.
> Like halo 3 but movement increasment by 20-30%
> "There your fast without being fast "
> That’s why halo 3 was the best

“Halo 3 was the best”

Aside from that being a ridiculously subjective statement, Halo 3 had a ridiculous amount of issues like the supreme dominance of the BR (the H3BR was and is still the worst iteration of the BR) and ridiculous nade spamming.

Also, increasing BMS isn’t a good compromise with modern fans. We like EM because it feels more free and fluid, and increasing BMS only makes movement feel twitchier and would have detrimental effects on strafing (longer strafes), all that and still feeling limiting because of being one-geared.

Not only that, but an increase in BMS will likely call for the map elongation so many classic guys here dread.

> 2535444702990491;16022:
> > 2533274830420921;16018:
> > When they reveil sprint or abilities in halo infinite in a couple of months.
> > Everybody who is a classic fan are done , taking there briefcase and leaving halo.
>
> Yeah, yeah - anti sprinters said the same thing before Halo 5 and yet they still played it and they’re still here…

I don’t think you’ll see Halo Infinite have longterm success if they can’t get back to having iconic maps that keep people coming back for more. H5 doesn’t really have any of those (IMO, but multiple surveys seem to show that others share that opinion) and I don’t see people sticking with the title for long. If MCC runs even 80% of expectations, I think you’ll see a split community.

The best solution I can think of is creating a simple core with No sprint/Clamber/thruster and building your maps around that. BUT include sprinting animations and Spartan abilities into the sandbox so these can be turned on/off in custom games and playlists.

Why do it this way? Maps designed with a simple core can work just fine with sprint added to it. But if sprint is included in the core design, then map design is affected.

TLDR - keep it simple, but give us options.