> 2535447612273772;15984:
> Community made the new hcs maps no problems there they made slayer maps the only bad one was Orion
To free up resources, i343 should only make forge for multiplayer, then a few base forge maps which ship with the game.
After that the community makes the rest of the maps.
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> > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
>
> No your not paying 60$ plus tax for one playlist you would be paying for old gameplay, new gameplay, the campaign, warzone, forge, and ect you know the halo package.
>
> Anyways now to get back to my point why I was saying there needs to be a compromise. To let the community see what it wants. (We all know the new halo isn’t going anywhere). But if there was a compromise and the old fans weren’t so selfish as to only hearing what they want and not everyone else wanted halo would be a better place. Would the community be split no why because classic fans would have there style while newer fans would have their. YOu can’t make halo go back because of the fan base halo 5 has brought the community will then still be divided this is why I’m saying they need to return halo 3 throwback a permanent playlist but let community make maps for it to keep the game fresh and not stale
>
> heck you might end realizing you didn’t even want the old style of play like I did ended up doing you might just want to rant and complain until you can play it again then you might not like it compared to the newer style
>
> but this is what I did I complained till they brought it back now I don’t like it I will still play it but I don’t like it you guys might be the same way maybe or maybe not
>
> but I’m saying the compromise is needed to see what the community really wants does this make sense to you now. Getting the best of both worlds ( besides 343 already said they wasn’t going back to the old way of playing when everything was easy) so you can either fight for a compromise or just not play halo because they already released a halo3 throw back playlist in halo 5
Why should I? I don’t want E.M. anymore, because it influences every other aspect of the game in a negative way. I’m not interested in a fake compromise, because it would not solve any problem. There is a word called resources, no matter what you do, you have to sacrifice another thing for it.
So why should I be happy to have just a handful of maps, a handful of weapons? (because every other weapon wouldn’t even work with the real movement system)
What people always forget is the campaign. Halo is not a Multiplayer only Game. The campaign plays a huge role in it and there is a big difference between Run’n’Gun Campaigns and E.M. Campaigns. I’ve literraly told you like 5 times, why it wouldn’t work and what elements in terms of gameplay had to be changed.
People still to this date enjoy the campaign of CE & 3 over and over again, because of the replayibility. These games are packed with an intense campaign experience, because everything is designed for your movement system. The covenant, the brutes and especially the flood are from the ground up not designed for E.M. combat. This is why they are not represented in the games anymore (or less, like the covenant). This is why they try to push the prometheans so much. (Teleport abilities / quick movement system) and the majority of the Halo Fans simply do no like this random stuff. And there’s no lore excuse for this, because the gameplay has affected lore this time.
And again, your suggestion is not a compromise, it would hurt the experience for everyone. People act like they’re willing to make compromises, but they aren’t (I’m not talking about you) - exactly like Vegeto30294 said: “So every time I see someone suggest having one classic playlist in a modern game, I retort, why not a classic game with one modern playlist in it? You still have your modern mechanics so you should be totally happy with that compromise.” The only thing I would have to throw in: I don’t consider this as modern anymore, because the E.M. trend is already dead, but that’ts another topic ^.^
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> > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
>
> Your suggestion is not a compromise, it would hurt the experience for everyone. People act like they’re willing to make compromises, but they aren’t (I’m not talking about you)
Correction. It would hurt the experience for you and those who think like you. It would absolutely not hurt the experience for everyone. And his suggestion is indeed a compromise, it’s just (apparently) not good enough for you. I guarantee you most casual gamers, fans who are neutral on this issue, and pretty much all pro sprinters would be good with some sort of split compromise (like the one he suggested), as long as sprint isn’t just cut out from the heart of Halo.
I’m not implying that his suggestion is perfect either, but it’s born of a mindset that’s a heck of a lot better than your “No, why should I? / you can’t make me” attitude when it comes to compromising on this issue.
> 2533274833081329;15983:
> > 2793974233125388;15957:
> > Can I Make a point? how does a short boost (maybe 25 per cent) to the player’s speed by holding down the movement button can break the game? Also how does it break the game if all players are capable. I cant prove my point because its obvious what sprint does. You know what it can do and your forcing me to tell you something which is easy to grasp. Consider this In Halo CE the pistol was OP wasn’t it? it outclassed the assault rifle as a starting weapon its the main reason its famous. in Halo 2 Button Combos broke the game because not everyone could preform them in game. the game. And some people who say sprint is bad say that Halo 2 wasn’t broken. It was. Halo Reach armour lock. The players worst nightmare. Sprint only increases movement speed by 25 per cent. if you could shoot while sprinting everyone would be sprinting and it would make long range weapons feel more useless. And if you increased base movement to the same speed as sprint it wouldn’t be halo it would feel more Doom. Again im considering sprint I wouldn’t care too much if it isn’t in Halo: Infinite.
>
> Because that 25% speed boost prevents you from doing anything else until you stop boosting. Meanwhile everything else in the game treats you as if you are boosting, when you’re not. The game is basically telling you to Sprint, but at the same time punishing you for listening and using it. But it’ll also punish you if you don’t use it because everyone else can use it.
>
> “Consider this In Halo CE the pistol was OP wasn’t it? it outclassed the assault rifle as a starting weapon its the main reason its famous.”
> Not really? I mean it was OP against Hunters, but there was also plenty of ammo to abuse that. It wasn’t more powerful than the Assault Rifle, it had a different role than the Assault Rifle, which gave it more use in average situations. Not even pros can reliably get a 3 shot kill every time. There are even times where you see people drop the Magnum for the sniper and keep the AR, because the AR is the best tool for clean up kills.
>
> “Sprint only increases movement speed by 25 per cent. if you could shoot while sprinting everyone would be sprinting and it would make long range weapons feel more useless. And if you increased base movement to the same speed as sprint it wouldn’t be halo it would feel more Doom.”
> But you just said Sprint is very minimal, increasing speed by only 25%. Not much with the sandbox would realistically change because they’re already meant to hit Sprinting targets, so long range weapons wouldn’t be any more useless than you see them now.
>
> And for the DOOM comment, that still plays noticeably different from Halo, and it’s mainly the FOV that makes it look faster than it is.
I’ve seen different to what you say on MCC. Besides the game shouldn’t encourage you to sprint because you could make yourself a target if you constantly sprint because you can shoot or throw grenades. You could only sprint to retrieve a power weapon or assume a position on larger maps or to reach an area quickly. Also if you claim that sprint makes long range weapons just as useless as armour abilities now that is false. It doesn’t. I have friends who agree that thrusting and dashing about is bad. and it turns halo 5 more into a fast paced CQC type game. doesn’t mean to say they are not useful. if you could shoot while sprinting everyone would be sprinting.
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> > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
> >
> > Your suggestion is not a compromise, it would hurt the experience for everyone. People act like they’re willing to make compromises, but they aren’t (I’m not talking about you)
>
> Correction. It would hurt the experience for you and those who think like you. It would absolutely not hurt the experience for everyone. And his suggestion is indeed a compromise, it’s just (apparently) not good enough for you. I guarantee you most casual gamers, fans who are neutral on this issue, and pretty much all pro sprinters would be good with some sort of split compromise, as long as sprint isn’t completely cut out from the heart of Halo.
Believe it or not, I am a casual player. But beeing casual doesn’t mean, that I don’t care about a balanced game. If you really think, that 2 entirely different styles of movement can work within the same sandbox - have fun with that opinion, I’m not trying to convince people who don’t understand the simplest things about gunplay. The massive decline in sales and population speaks for itself, so…I don’t think that I’m the only one, who isn’t enjoying this direction.
Guardians already had multiple “classic” Gamemodes and it didn’t help to boost the popularity in any way.
I’ve already made a suggestion. The best way to go is to split the community entirely. Infinite should be centered around Run’n’Gun and the next spinoff can be a E.M. game.
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> > > > > > Sprint doesn’t slow the pace of the game That’s utter rubbish.
> > >
> > > Again. We have proven that Sprint heavily breaks the game.
> >
> > Absolutely, positively false. The only thing you’ve effectively accomplished here is to endlessly complain about why you personally don’t think sprint is good for the game. You’ve proven nothing about breaking the game- sprint works just fine in Reach, H4, and H5. Aside from your own griping, there’s nothing “broken,” about those games; nor would Infinite be any worse for the wear with sprint’s inclusion.
>
> And how is this any different from you harassing other people about them wanting Sprint?
>
> You seem to want Sprint so much, yet you never gave a reason, aside from being sarcastic and borderline trolling.
>
> But you’re more than willing to falsify information and exaggerate if it helps you believe Sprint is better.
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> > > > > > > > Sprint doesn’t slow the pace of the game That’s utter rubbish.
> > >
> > > - 1) Time to re-enter the fight. There’s a careful balance, especially with objective games, where killing a member of the other team doesn’t just give you a point or a new vid to plaster on your youtube. It’s about freeing up the battlefield. Kill this guy and he has to respawn, putting his team at a disadvantage while you play the objective or mop up his team. By giving players an automatic button that enables faster movement you reduce the time it takes that player to re-enter the fight. This can cause chaos and reduce the skill gap. Rather than players taking control and making pushes when they see a good opportunity, it’s likely that the team will respawn and be back on you before you’ve reloaded. The only way to mitigate against that is through map design. This takes us in to number 2.Spawn points are the real issue. I played CTF midship on H2C the other night and our team got spawn camped like crazy. Sprint wasn’t even involved and yet the map design didn’t magically save any of us from spawning facing the other direction and getting camped out like crazy. Sprint does not impact the time to reenter the fight as long as there’s enough time and space to spawn and react to the opposition. - 2a) Map design.Disagree completely. Those of you pushing to up one BMS in leu of sprint should know better than to push this argument. If the overall speed is the same regardless then sprint wouldn’t impact map design nearly as much as you’re suggesting (if at all). - 2b) Map control.There’s a delicate line between map control and spawn trapping. Either way from what I’ve seen map control can be attained with or without sprint by holding the high ground and using team shot effectively. The best example I can give is from playing mid ship on MCC then playing the remake on H5. No matter what this map is controlled in quite the same fashion, whether it be played on H2 (no sprint), H3 (no sprint), or H5 (with sprint). - 3a) Combat readiness.Sprint is completely equal in H4 and H5. You’re no more combat ready then your opposition when you both choose to use sprint. The difference is that sprint can help you reach your destination faster, but there’s clearly a risk/reward aspect involved with lowering one’s weapon to accomplish this feat. - 3b) Combat distances. Because of those increased map and corridor sizes, instead of fighting a guy at close to mid range with ARs and BRs, you fighting at mid to long ranges. This throws off the balance and roles for the weapons. But since all that has gone right out of the window, the way individual combat unfolds.Mid to long range weapons have been favored since Halo CE, with its OP pistol and (potentially) one shot kill sniper rifle. If anything H5 took its best shot at making AR’s more relevant, and sprint just helps accomplish this objective by (occasionally) being able to close distances faster. - 4) Weapon roles. So along with increased grenade radius because of the increased movement options, you also have shotguns, SMGs and ARs that can zoom and since you are most likely fighting one enemy who is sprinting all over the place the weapon damage has to be increased in order to make sure getting a kill is possible at all.Okay, sure- more skill is required to headshot faster moving opponents- but how is this any different then the notion of increasing one BMS?? The pace of Halo was too slow in H3 so Halo is (most likely) never, ever going back to that slower speed. Therefore how do you expect to slow down the gameplay enough to accomplish this desire of yours (to be able to slow down players enough that you can more accurately hit them with SMGs and AR’s)? - 5) and lastly. Complexity vs depth.I agree with your train of thought but the complexity that advanced movement provides is indeed depth to those who master and/or appreciate what these newer age mechanics bring to the table. No longer will crouch jumping and/or strafing be enough (though those elements are still important, particularly in mid to long range 1v1’s), but you now have to be aware of many more movement techniques potentially coming your way during a firefight. This leads to more unpredictability which is good for replayability in FPS shooters. Being able to predict exactly how long it takes for your opponents to spawn and traverse across the map becomes repetitive and boring. - Sure, some players might find Halo 4 and 5 fun, but also look at the fact that Bungie looked at putting sprint in Halo 2, but it didn’t work, and the mechanic still didn’t get it Halo 3. It wasn’t until Reach that Bungie finally put Sprint in Halo, but only in a very limited form. You have to ask yourself, “If they wanted sprint in Halo since Halo 2, why did it take so long, and why did it only really half get in there under Bungie’s watch?”. Maybe because Bungie realised early on that sprint broke the very core design that had set out for Halo.I don’t agree with that at all. Bungie did create and implement sprint in Halo. They created sprint as early as their development cycle for Halo 2 (which admittedly didn’t make it into the final game for reasons we’ll never know)… Two AAA games later Bungie implemented sprint with their final installment to the Halo franchise; clearly demonstrating that they did believe that sprint would enhance and improve Halo’s gameplay. Sprint has been in every single AAA Halo title since then and continues to enhance and improve Halo’s gameplay to this day.
>
> You are aware that Bungie openly referred to Reach as both an experiment and the game for them to implement ideas they never got the chance to implement in games prior to it, correct?
>
> I wouldn’t say that them putting Sprint into Reach is any sort of golden stamp for the syst
> Delta Sprint doesn’t break halo. But im not for sprint nor am I against it im wanting to say that I like the concept of sprint.
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> > > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
> > >
> > > Your suggestion is not a compromise, it would hurt the experience for everyone. People act like they’re willing to make compromises, but they aren’t (I’m not talking about you)
> >
> > Correction. It would hurt the experience for you and those who think like you. It would absolutely not hurt the experience for everyone. And his suggestion is indeed a compromise, it’s just (apparently) not good enough for you. I guarantee you most casual gamers, fans who are neutral on this issue, and pretty much all pro sprinters would be good with some sort of split compromise, as long as sprint isn’t completely cut out from the heart of Halo.
>
> Believe it or not, I am a casual player. But beeing casual doesn’t mean, that I don’t care about a balanced game. If you really think, that 2 entirely different styles of gameplay can work within the same sandbox - have fun with that opinion, I’m not trying to convince people who don’t understand the simplest things about gunplay.
I understand the concept and I’ve read plenty of your posts in this thread so I believe that I have a good idea behind what is driving your arguments. I just don’t believe that a slight increase to the size of map is as game breaking as you do. Under that logic you should have thrown down your controller and left the franchise when you first played BTB on H3. It’s not like you can’t play modern Halo at all with a slower BMS in a classic playlist in a slightly elongated map; granted I do understand that you don’t prefer such a compromise. I’m not saying you have to agree to a compromise either, which I’m certain that you wouldn’t… But a compromise is still a compromise.
BTW a decline in sales can be attributed to a wide array of factors; both internally and externally when it comes to what game designers can even control. To try and pin every perceived failure you have with the franchise against one single movement mechanic that you don’t like (but many other of your fellow Halo gamers do enjoy) just doesn’t hold a lot of merit IMO. (I’ll acknowledge that I can’t definitely prove your theory wrong either but I think it’s false and certainly can’t be proven as accurate either).
Note: I do understand that speed of movement does impact map design. I just don’t agree that sprint flat out breaks it, especially for those of you trying to push just one faster BMS in lieu of sprint (How different would those maps even be in terms of their design???)
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> > > > > > > Sprint doesn’t slow the pace of the game That’s utter rubbish.
> > > >
> > > > Again. We have proven that Sprint heavily breaks the game.
> > >
> > > Absolutely, positively false. The only thing you’ve effectively accomplished here is to endlessly complain about why you personally don’t think sprint is good for the game. You’ve proven nothing about breaking the game- sprint works just fine in Reach, H4, and H5. Aside from your own griping, there’s nothing “broken,” about those games; nor would Infinite be any worse for the wear with sprint’s inclusion.
> >
> > And how is this any different from you harassing other people about them wanting Sprint?
> >
> > You seem to want Sprint so much, yet you never gave a reason, aside from being sarcastic and borderline trolling.
> >
> > But you’re more than willing to falsify information and exaggerate if it helps you believe Sprint is better.
>
>
>
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> > > > > > > > > Sprint doesn’t slow the pace of the game That’s utter rubbish.
> > > >
> > > > - 1) Time to re-enter the fight. There’s a careful balance, especially with objective games, where killing a member of the other team doesn’t just give you a point or a new vid to plaster on your youtube. It’s about freeing up the battlefield. Kill this guy and he has to respawn, putting his team at a disadvantage while you play the objective or mop up his team. By giving players an automatic button that enables faster movement you reduce the time it takes that player to re-enter the fight. This can cause chaos and reduce the skill gap. Rather than players taking control and making pushes when they see a good opportunity, it’s likely that the team will respawn and be back on you before you’ve reloaded. The only way to mitigate against that is through map design. This takes us in to number 2.Spawn points are the real issue. I played CTF midship on H2C the other night and our team got spawn camped like crazy. Sprint wasn’t even involved and yet the map design didn’t magically save any of us from spawning facing the other direction and getting camped out like crazy. Sprint does not impact the time to reenter the fight as long as there’s enough time and space to spawn and react to the opposition. - 2a) Map design.Disagree completely. Those of you pushing to up one BMS in leu of sprint should know better than to push this argument. If the overall speed is the same regardless then sprint wouldn’t impact map design nearly as much as you’re suggesting (if at all). - 2b) Map control.There’s a delicate line between map control and spawn trapping. Either way from what I’ve seen map control can be attained with or without sprint by holding the high ground and using team shot effectively. The best example I can give is from playing mid ship on MCC then playing the remake on H5. No matter what this map is controlled in quite the same fashion, whether it be played on H2 (no sprint), H3 (no sprint), or H5 (with sprint). - 3a) Combat readiness.Sprint is completely equal in H4 and H5. You’re no more combat ready then your opposition when you both choose to use sprint. The difference is that sprint can help you reach your destination faster, but there’s clearly a risk/reward aspect involved with lowering one’s weapon to accomplish this feat. - 3b) Combat distances. Because of those increased map and corridor sizes, instead of fighting a guy at close to mid range with ARs and BRs, you fighting at mid to long ranges. This throws off the balance and roles for the weapons. But since all that has gone right out of the window, the way individual combat unfolds.Mid to long range weapons have been favored since Halo CE, with its OP pistol and (potentially) one shot kill sniper rifle. If anything H5 took its best shot at making AR’s more relevant, and sprint just helps accomplish this objective by (occasionally) being able to close distances faster. - 4) Weapon roles. So along with increased grenade radius because of the increased movement options, you also have shotguns, SMGs and ARs that can zoom and since you are most likely fighting one enemy who is sprinting all over the place the weapon damage has to be increased in order to make sure getting a kill is possible at all.Okay, sure- more skill is required to headshot faster moving opponents- but how is this any different then the notion of increasing one BMS?? The pace of Halo was too slow in H3 so Halo is (most likely) never, ever going back to that slower speed. Therefore how do you expect to slow down the gameplay enough to accomplish this desire of yours (to be able to slow down players enough that you can more accurately hit them with SMGs and AR’s)? - 5) and lastly. Complexity vs depth.I agree with your train of thought but the complexity that advanced movement provides is indeed depth to those who master and/or appreciate what these newer age mechanics bring to the table. No longer will crouch jumping and/or strafing be enough (though those elements are still important, particularly in mid to long range 1v1’s), but you now have to be aware of many more movement techniques potentially coming your way during a firefight. This leads to more unpredictability which is good for replayability in FPS shooters. Being able to predict exactly how long it takes for your opponents to spawn and traverse across the map becomes repetitive and boring. - Sure, some players might find Halo 4 and 5 fun, but also look at the fact that Bungie looked at putting sprint in Halo 2, but it didn’t work, and the mechanic still didn’t get it Halo 3. It wasn’t until Reach that Bungie finally put Sprint in Halo, but only in a very limited form. You have to ask yourself, “If they wanted sprint in Halo since Halo 2, why did it take so long, and why did it only really half get in there under Bungie’s watch?”. Maybe because Bungie realised early on that sprint broke the very core design that had set out for Halo.I don’t agree with that at all. Bungie did create and implement sprint in Halo. They created sprint as early as their development cycle for Halo 2 (which admittedly didn’t make it into the final game for reasons we’ll never know)… Two AAA games later Bungie implemented sprint with their final installment to the Halo franchise; clearly demonstrating that they did believe that sprint would enhance and improve Halo’s gameplay. Sprint has been in every single AAA Halo title since then and continues to enhance and improve Halo’s gameplay to this day.
> >
> > Sprint doesn’t break halo. That’s just plain stupid because the games halo reach 4 and 5 still appear balanced. But im not for sprint nor am I against it im wanting to say that I like the concept of sprint. Every Halo game has the potential to be my favourite sprint or no sprint. but sprint doesn’t break the game. I think your concept of “broken” is a different feel.
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> > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
> >
> > Your suggestion is not a compromise, it would hurt the experience for everyone. People act like they’re willing to make compromises, but they aren’t (I’m not talking about you)
>
> Correction. It would hurt the experience for you and those who think like you. It would absolutely not hurt the experience for everyone. And his suggestion is indeed a compromise, it’s just (apparently) not good enough for you. I guarantee you most casual gamers, fans who are neutral on this issue, and pretty much all pro sprinters would be good with some sort of split compromise (like the one he suggested), as long as sprint isn’t just cut out from the heart of Halo.
>
> I’m not implying that his suggestion is perfect either, but it’s born of a mindset that’s a heck of a lot better than your “No, why should I? / you can’t make me” attitude when it comes to compromising on this issue.
Except we’ve proven time and time again that Sprint has a detrimental effect on both map design and gameplay, while you have done nothing of the sort. What’s your arguement for the inclusion of Sprint? It’s immersive?
Immersion does not matter. Good gameplay does. Of course, you’re going to fail to address any of this and just ignore it because you know you can’t address it.
I’m done with this thread. We’ve discussed the same issues over and over again. 343 knows what it needs to do to make a game that plays well. Likewise, they know what to do to make an immersive game. It’s up to them to choose what to do.
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> > > > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
> > > >
> > > > Your suggestion is not a compromise, it would hurt the experience for everyone. People act like they’re willing to make compromises, but they aren’t (I’m not talking about you)
> > >
> > > Correction. It would hurt the experience for you and those who think like you. It would absolutely not hurt the experience for everyone. And his suggestion is indeed a compromise, it’s just (apparently) not good enough for you. I guarantee you most casual gamers, fans who are neutral on this issue, and pretty much all pro sprinters would be good with some sort of split compromise, as long as sprint isn’t completely cut out from the heart of Halo.
> >
> > Believe it or not, I am a casual player. But beeing casual doesn’t mean, that I don’t care about a balanced game. If you really think, that 2 entirely different styles of gameplay can work within the same sandbox - have fun with that opinion, I’m not trying to convince people who don’t understand the simplest things about gunplay.
>
> I understand the concept and I’ve read plenty of your posts in this thread so I believe that I have a good idea behind what is driving your arguments. I just don’t believe that a slight increase to the size of map is as game breaking as you do. Under that logic you should have thrown down your controller and left the franchise when you first played BTB on H3. It’s not like you can’t play modern Halo at all with a slower BMS in a classic playlist in a slightly elongated map; granted I do understand that you don’t prefer such a compromise. I’m not saying you have to agree to a compromise either, which I’m certain that you wouldn’t… But a compromise is still a compromise.
>
> BTW a decline in sales can be attributed to a wide array of factors; both internally and externally when it comes to what game designers can even control. To try and pin every perceived failure you have with the franchise against one single movement mechanic that you don’t like (but many other of your fellow Halo gamers do enjoy) just doesn’t hold a lot of merit IMO. (I’ll acknowledge that I can’t definitely prove your theory wrong either but I think it’s false and certainly can’t be proven as accurate either).
>
> Note: I do understand that speed of movement does impact map design. I just don’t agree that sprint flat out breaks it, especially for those of you trying to push just one faster BMS in lieu of sprint (How different would those maps even be in terms of their design???)
You’ve stated that you’ve seen my posts but you still are not able to bring any valuable argument against them. (Gunplay, Maps ((I’m not just talking about map scaling)), Campaign, Enemy AI, unique elements of Halos Sandbox completly thrown away or became useless) And you wan’t to tell me, that it’s just about “one mechanic”. Everything had to change, in order to implement sprint. (combined with the other S.A.) And it still doesn’t fit into Halo’s Sandbox. At this point it’s becoming very repetitive.
Why should I’ve thrown my controller away? To be honest, it seems like we are way more open to improvements, than you. H2 plays way different, than CE, 3 added a lot of things / built the gunplay from the ground up again and guess what - the population still grew more and more. You’ve said it time and time again: “I won’t buy Infinite if it has no sprint” - and you tell me, that I’m not willing to compromise? So you’re willing to give Halo up, just because of -let me quote you- “One movement mechanic?”
If you wan’to make a compromise, you have to do it in the right way. I’ve even mentioned it in my last post. In my opinion, it’s the best solution. Supporters of every gameplay-style would benefit from their purchase. You wouldn’t have to make compromises within the game, in fact, you will be able to optimize the wishes for both sides.
> 2535444702990491;15992:
> I understand the concept and I’ve read plenty of your posts in this thread so I believe that I have a good idea behind what is driving your arguments. I just don’t believe that a slight increase to the size of map is as game breaking as you do. Under that logic you should have thrown down your controller and left the franchise when you first played BTB on H3. It’s not like you can’t play modern Halo at all with a slower BMS in a classic playlist in a slightly elongated map; granted I do understand that you don’t prefer such a compromise. I’m not saying you have to agree to a compromise either, which I’m certain that you wouldn’t… But a compromise is still a compromise.
You’re ignoring the differences between BTB and standard 4v4 as gametypes here. Most obviously, BTB has vehicles as well as double the amount of players, both of which require a larger map to not be crowded. BTB is also intended to play quite differently from standard 4v4, and players are able to adjust their expectations towards in accordingly, in particular regarding pace of gameplay, which is indeed usually slower than in 4v4. Not just that, players go to BTB to have a gameplay experience that differs from the standard 4v4. However, just because people enjoy BTB, they don’t necessarily want its attributes in smaller scale gametypes.
> 2535444702990491;15992:
> Note: I do understand that speed of movement does impact map design. I just don’t agree that sprint flat out breaks it, especially for those of you trying to push just one faster BMS in lieu of sprint (How different would those maps even be in terms of their design???)
With, say, a Halo 5 BMS and no sprint the typical map would likely be slightly larger than in the original trilogy, but not nearly as large as the typical map in Halo 5. More concretely, the length scales would be around 1.15x larger compared to the original trilogy in contrast to 1.5x in Halo 5. This is a rough heuristic based on the assumption that we want to retain the same travel times as in Halo 5. Even though the travel times would remain the same, the gameplay would be drastically different. With players being able to shoot while transiting at maximum speed as well as being able to make all the jumps forwards, backwards, sideways, while shooting or not shooting, the gameplay woulld be significantly more dynamic. It would also be somewhat faster, since part of the time spent in transit would now also be used for participating in combat.
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> > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
> >
> > Your suggestion is not a compromise, it would hurt the experience for everyone. People act like they’re willing to make compromises, but they aren’t (I’m not talking about you)
>
> Correction. It would hurt the experience for you and those who think like you. It would absolutely not hurt the experience for everyone. And his suggestion is indeed a compromise, it’s just (apparently) not good enough for you. **I guarantee you most casual gamers, fans who are neutral on this issue, and pretty much all pro sprinters would be good with some sort of split compromise (like the one he suggested), as long as sprint isn’t just cut out from the heart of Halo.**I’m not implying that his suggestion is perfect either, but it’s born of a mindset that’s a heck of a lot better than your “No, why should I? / you can’t make me” attitude when it comes to compromising on this issue.
But his compromise isn’t good enough for you, so what makes you any better?
He’s not willing to play a game that has Sprint in it. You’re not willing to play a game that doesn’t have Sprint in it. You’ve literally gone on record and said you will simply not play Halo Infinite if Sprint is removed from the game, and it takes 343i to announce Sprint for you to even pre-order. It’s all or nothing for you just like how it’s all or nothing to him and a lot of other people here, just in the other direction.
Most casual gamers don’t care about Sprint in one way or the other. They won’t take the time to delve in why Sprint is good or not. If a game is fun, it’s fun. No one mechanic will decide that for them. Of course “pro-Sprinters” would be happy with Sprint because that’s what they want and nothing less. But don’t worry, that’s why we’ll make a classic game and put in one Sprint playlist to appease you, since you know, it wouldn’t hurt your experience or anything.
> 2535444702990491;15969:
> > 2533274802441922;15961:
> > IMO is easier to spawn trap in H5 than previous Halos because the addition of sprint has caused maps and sight lines to be elongated.
>
> With all due respect, I disagree with this entirely. As someone who has been a part of each and every online Halo experience I’ll tell you that sprint truly helps gamers escape the spawn trap. Clearly you can get spawn trapped for a variety of reasons, including overall skill of your team (specifically when it comes to understanding the spawn placements, team shot, communication, and map placement/control), spawn placement, game type, and (yes), map design (But overall team skill and spawn placement are the two quintessential contributing factors to spawn trapping).
>
> In lieu of favorable spawns and team skill, what else do you really need to escape the spawn trap?
>
> You really require: distance and space, power weapons and/or OS/invisibility (if available), and/or vehicles (if present on the map and/or available). Since everything but the former are generally outside of your control (especially if you’re being spawn trapped) then you revert back to what you can control… Distance and space. Larger maps innately provide additional space and sprint empowers the player with another tool to create more distance. That’s not saying that sprint alone will save you from becoming spawn trapped, but it certainly provides the player with another way to potentially escape the situation (that otherwise did not exist without sprint).
>
> In the classic Halos your only recourse if all else fails in a spawn trap was to try and lumber away from the situation like some gigantic, slow moving statue versus applying the agility and speed that sprint (combined with the other advanced movement mechanics) brings to the table in Halo 5.
Hmm - Interesting perspective.
I guess another thing that I should have mentioned was that sprint also allows people to maintain a spawn trap easier. Maps like Echoes and Port authority are good examples of this.
#anecdote time - I had a friend try H5 the other day. He hadn’t played a halo since Halo Reach. His first reaction (He played from SR1 to SR10) was how much trading Halo 5 has in terms gameplay. He described it as a race to 1.0 KD - Go one for one as best you can and if you can get that double, you come out ahead. Map control was very difficult for him to get a handle on since Map control in H5 is a much different concept than in classic halos.
Whatever 343 decides for the future of Halo, I just hope it’s fun and has some iconic maps that get me excited to play. Also…#RemoveSpartanCharge
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> > > > > > > > > > 2535464451695009;15950:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535447612273772;15941:
> > > > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
> > > >
> > > > Your suggestion is not a compromise, it would hurt the experience for everyone. People act like they’re willing to make compromises, but they aren’t (I’m not talking about you)
>
> Note: I do understand that speed of movement does impact map design. I just don’t agree that sprint flat out breaks it, especially for those of you trying to push just one faster BMS in lieu of sprint (How different would those maps even be in terms of their design???)
Can I just point out, that I personally do NOT want an increase of BMS. Though I have used the increase BMS in my arguments. The reason I bring it up is to illustrate the failure in the logic for pro-sprinters. Specifically when players like Sarge221 are adamant that sprint helps them move faster and get in to battle faster, and that they like the faster speeds, and that Halo 3 is too slow.
So we use increased BMS as a measure. Problem: Classic Halo is too slow. Solution: Increase movement speed. Except, you guys don’t want increased movement speed, you want sprint. Why is that?. What we are trying to determine when we ask ‘what does Sprint provide that increased BMS doesn’t?’ is what it actually is about sprint the pro-sprinters like. Unfortunately, in nearly every case, the question is dodged, and in the cases it is answered, it either provides no benefits that Increased BMS doesn’t, or it’s just the way sprint feels, or some made up nonsense about being “modern” and needing to have sprint to be just like the other “modern” games.
> 2793974233125388;15989:
> I’ve seen different to what you say on MCC.
If you’re referring to CE, it’s not the same as the original with the most noticeable difference being the pistol is hitscan instead of projectile.
> 2547348539238747;15999:
> What we are trying to determine when we ask ‘what does Sprint provide that increased BMS doesn’t?’
Only thing I can think of is they want to feel like they’re actually moving faster which sprinting accomplishes when the BMS is slower. Maybe they need some kind of visual representation of that or else they can’t connect the dots that they’re moving at similar speeds if the BMS was raised, but there’s only one speed. Of course, a simple animation could fix most of that.
[deleted]
> 2727626560040591;16000:
> > 2793974233125388;15989:
> >
>
>
>
> > 2547348539238747;15999:
> > What we are trying to determine when we ask ‘what does Sprint provide that increased BMS doesn’t?’
>
> Only thing I can think of is they want to feel like they’re actually moving faster which sprinting accomplishes when the BMS is slower. Maybe they need some kind of visual representation of that or else they can’t connect the dots that they’re moving at similar speeds if the BMS was raised, but there’s only one speed. Of course, a simple animation could fix most of that.
Which is why I ask that question.
But if “feels faster” and “immersion” end up being the only reason, then when players press the sprint button you could increase FOV and shake the camera but keep the speed the same. It would provide the same feeling.
> 2535464451695009;16001:
> Why not take a risk and suggest something new that blends old and new in a way that makes sense for Halo? Being an “easy to learn but hard to master” Arena Shooter is part of Halo’s soul, so suggest something around that instead of trying to split the population
Thinking of something like that is not easy and it’s likely one reason why a lot of people aren’t game devs. I could probably think of some idea for a sprint hybrid given some time, but it will probably be terrible. The one idea that I agree with so far is making them pickup items although I doubt it’s much better than splitting the population idea.
> 2533274833081329;15997:
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> > > 2535473481267884;15987:
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> > > > > > > > > 2535464451695009;15950:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535447612273772;15941:
> > > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
>
> But his compromise isn’t good enough for you, so what makes you any better?
>
> He’s not willing to play a game that has Sprint in it. You’re not willing to play a game that doesn’t have Sprint in it. You’ve literally gone on record and said you will simply not play Halo Infinite if Sprint is removed from the game, and it takes 343i to announce Sprint for you to even pre-order. It’s all or nothing for you just like how it’s all or nothing to him and a lot of other people here, just in the other direction.
I know what I said but you’re taking it out of context and blowing it out of proportion to suit your needs for this debate (not surprised by your actions either).
You literally went out of your way to quote me from another thread to what, try to throw it in my face in this discussion? That other thread was intended to discuss whether or not to pre order Halo Infinite and for me personally I’ll need to see that sprint is in the next Halo title in order to do so. That’s my own personal decision too- I’m not trying to encourage others to join me in that cause or to force my ideations on you like you anti sprinters routinely do here. That doesn’t mean that I’m not open to compromise on the issue- I still believe (while I’d rather not give in at all on losing sprint) that a split compromise would satisfy the majority of gamers. So I’m willing to accept sprint to a lesser extent than what I’d personally prefer to see in Infinite, but I’m not going to enjoy the game if it’s wholly without sprint. That is not the same all or nothing mentality that you diehard anti sprinters are taking with you into this debate. For you there is zero room for compromise on this issue, despite what your so called “fellow fans,” think about sprint (if you’d even call us that).
> 2535444702990491;16004:
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> > > 2535444702990491;15988:
> > > > 2535473481267884;15987:
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> > > > > > > > > > 2535464451695009;15950:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535447612273772;15941:
> > > > > > > > > > > Being good at any halo required you to know how to move around the map well I don’t know what game you are playing but halo 5 doesn’t distrup the golden triangle shooting, nades, and melee that is the original formula if you didn’t know but knowing how to move around the map without any advantages was what halo is and was that’s what made a good player good and a bad player bad so is halo 5 basing its entire gameplay around sprint no it’s basing its gameplay around thrust and extra movement machanics you probably never took the time to actually hone your skills with them
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This is a side note, but you should proof read your posts before clicking submit. I’m honestly having trouble having a deeper understanding of your post.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Who said anything about a Golden Triangle? I know it’s a thing Bungie started, but that’s irrelevant to my point, since it only covers each players’ offensive options. Any game that is played at a high level is about all about map movement and map control. That isn’t unique to Halo. Does it matter if someone is good or bad at a game to criticize it? I could be the worst player in Overwatch, and know when something is or isn’t fair based on my experiences playing the game and watching others better than me play the game. I’m aware Halo 5 is built around Spartan Abilities, so what are you trying to say?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > plus wasn’t sprint a armor ability so shouldn’t you be on my side of the argument or isn’t just you want to have an advantage over someone like other games such as CoD
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > No, because introducing a new mechanic, that is mandatory to use to play competitively, completely changes the design of the game and what it’s previous iterations were meant to be. You can introduce as many band--Yoink!- as possible to rectify those changes, just like 343 did in Halo 5, but in the end, the core design of the multiplayer gameplay has changed a lot compared to previous games. Just look at the map design and how players fight and look for each other in Arena matchmaking. Compared to Halo CE and Halo 2, Halo 5 is pretty passive and claustrophobic because of the introduction of Spartan Abilities. You could even see some changes in Halo: Reach’s map design compared to previous titles because of Loadouts and on-spawn Armor Abilities.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > staying true to fair abilities was andnis what halo is if I’m able to use a jet pack so should you when you spawn other than that it’s just weapons that’s what halos original formula is and was
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What? Is this about equal spawns? Equal spawns aren’t unique to Halo. The games that Halo was influenced by, like Quake and Unreal, had equal starts as well. If it’s about the introduction of Armor Abilities as map pickups, they’re the same as every other pick-up, except when you pick them up, you gain something temporarily, just like the original trilogy’s power-ups. You may be overpowered for a little bit, but that power is going to run out eventually, unlike with Spartan Abilities where you always have that power.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I’m sorry, but we can’t have a proper discussion if I can’t completely understand why you think the inclusion of sprint, and Spartan Abilities in general, is good for Halo. Saying you like sprint and Spartan Abilities is fine and I’ll let you have that opinion, but you need to back it up if we’re to discuss this. I want to understand you, and you should want to understand me. It’s only fair. A lot of your post was defining what Halo is and Halo 5’s mechanics are, which we already know what they are.
> >
> > But his compromise isn’t good enough for you, so what makes you any better?
> >
> > He’s not willing to play a game that has Sprint in it. You’re not willing to play a game that doesn’t have Sprint in it. You’ve literally gone on record and said you will simply not play Halo Infinite if Sprint is removed from the game, and it takes 343i to announce Sprint for you to even pre-order. It’s all or nothing for you just like how it’s all or nothing to him and a lot of other people here, just in the other direction.
>
> I know what I said but you’re taking it out of context and blowing it out of proportion to suit your needs for this debate (not surprised by your actions either).
>
> You literally went out of your way to quote me from another thread to what, try to throw it in my face in this discussion? That other thread was intended to discuss whether or not to pre order Halo Infinite and for me personally I’ll need to see that sprint is in the next Halo title in order to do so. That’s my own personal decision too- I’m not trying to encourage others to join me in that cause or to force my ideations on you like you anti sprinters routinely do here. That doesn’t mean that I’m not open to compromise on the issue- I still believe (while I’d rather not give in at all on losing sprint) that a split compromise would satisfy the majority of gamers. So I’m willing to accept sprint to a lesser extent than what I’d personally prefer to see in Infinite, but I’m not going to enjoy the game if it’s wholly without sprint. That is not the same all or nothing mentality that you diehard anti sprinters are taking with you into this debate. For you there is zero room for compromise on this issue, despite what your so called “fellow fans,” think about sprint (if you’d even call us that).
How do you do a compromise on sprint, without making it worse for both?