The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
15846

Alright, after some thought and hearing other’s opinions, here’s yet another compromise I’ve thought of.
Campaign:
Removed:

  • Spoortan charge + Grund pund - Thrust - Clamber - Sprint (and AT&T, though they’ve really removed themselves due to a chronic lack of cell service) - ADS (see multiplayer, 6 for full details)These can all be turned back on as skulls, similar to the cowbell skull or the grunt confetti skull. The campaign will be balanced around Halo CE to 3’s BMS, with Legendary having AI similar to that of Reach, where it’s not unfair per se, but is quite advanced and punishing (ex: high rank elites basically won’t take a plasma pistol charge shot; they’ll dodge it). The goal of this is to A. Design the campaign for classic players and bring back a strategic nature of the campaign while B. Giving newer player the option to play with spartan abilities on a legendary campaign that’s still challenging and rewarding to beat, but also appropriately adjusting their score due to enhancements being used.
    Multiplayer:
    Removed:

  • Ground Pound - Spartan Charge - Thrust - Slide - Either: clamber is removed and jump height is restored to H3 values, or jump height remains current and clamber stays current. - Hit scan is gone, and bullet magnetism is significantly lower (especially on sniper weapons). - ADS is overhauled; on any unsighted weapons (AR, Magnum, SMG, Plasma anything) there is no zooming in, but zoom exists on sighted weapons (BR, DMR, Carbine, Lightrifle, any sniper). ADS no longer tightens spread or reduces bloom.Sprint would be tweaked in such a way that 1. You cannot sprint with low/no shields 2. You can aim when sprinting (your reticule appears), but firing “breaks” sprint. 3. Sprint is not unlimited, it will break after a set, short-ish distance (similar to Halo 4). 4. You do not go “0-100” when sprinting, rather you slowly accelerate into a sprint automatically, much like a normal human being does. This “accelerated sprint” would break with sharp turns in direction or collisions with objects. 5. Full sprint is decreased slightly in speed from the H4 variant. 6. Base movement is increased from the HCE-H3 value marginally by 5-10%.
    The goal of this is to A. Fully eliminate sprint in any combat scenario while B. Allowing a movement mechanic that no longer feels like you’re knee deep in water and -Yoink!- in traveling over large maps.

Furthermore, some new mechanics would have to be added to make Halo unique. Here are some ideas, not full proposals:

  • Dual wield returns - Sprint overcharge- the ability to sprint even faster than currently possible (for a very short time) by clicking left stick in, allowing you to catch up to some vehicles like warthogs and ghosts. The penalty would be stiff; your spartan would move at moderately reduced speeds for a significant amount of time (the entire cool down time of the ability). This, I believe, would help nerf the impact of some vehicles like ghosts that can be so annoying in BTB and Warzone - Lock position: By double clicking right stick, you would lock your position on to whatever surface you’re standing on. This would disable movement, but would stabilize your aim slightly and allow for vehicles to be more easily ridden upon (ahem scout warthog). - Block mele- by hitting and holding the mele button, a block animation would occur; this prevents use of weapons (but not grenades) while rendering all mele damage moot. I always wanted to have a real fistfight with a spartan ever since I saw the Chief cutscene and I hate mele spam. Now, if you have a sticky grenade, you can force your opponent to finish you with a gun and stay back, or risk being stuck.This might’ve gotten off topic at the end, but I always hear how “we” want to devolve Halo. I wanted to propose some new abilities to replace the old ones. Of course, tilt and peek would also go a long way to :slight_smile:
15847

> 2533274833081329;15809:
> > 2793974233125388;15807:
> > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.
>
> It was really flawed that an armored super soldier can’t swim in these games (including Halo 5), but no one is complaining about that.

True. But Swimming isn’t as much as an issue as sprint. There also is rarely any water or pond or sea areas in halo 5 arena maps. this is about sprinting. Talk about sprint.

15848

> 2793974233125388;15847:
> > 2533274833081329;15809:
> > > 2793974233125388;15807:
> > > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.
> >
> > It was really flawed that an armored super soldier can’t swim in these games (including Halo 5), but no one is complaining about that.
>
> True. But Swimming isn’t as much as an issue as sprint. There also is rarely any water or pond or sea areas in halo 5 arena maps. this is about sprinting. Talk about sprint.

Lol? You try to justify a gameplay mechanic with lore and then it makes you wonder, that someone else does the same thing to turn your own argument against you.
Lore should not effect gameplay. It doesn’t even increase pace, in fact it slows the game down. You were able to travel way faster with teleporters & man cannons. It doesn’t allow more combat oppurtunies, in fact it just restricts you. Movement + Shooting part get seperated. In the real formular you were able to shoot, run, crouch jump, dodge all at once without letting your gun for 1 sec. down.
In order to implement sprint in Halo, every other element of the game had to change and still to this day it doesn’t fit in Halos Sandbox.

<p></p>

15849

> 2533274795123910;15808:
> > 2793974233125388;15807:
> > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.
>
> There were built in protections in the armor preventing the user from reaching speeds which would harm themselves.
> In Reach the sprint AA is a module created by Kat to temporarily disable said protection. Halsey was not happy with that.
>
> Could you elaborate on how it actually increases the pace? Or should I just say “Nah it doesn’t increase the pace”.
>
> What kind of new combat opportunities does sprint enable?
>
> Why shouldn’t an advanced augmented super soldier in a high tech exoskeleton armor not be able to dash and thrust?

Allow me to explain. Firstly it increases the pace and flow of combat which I see as new and familiar at the same time. All Players would be capable of preforming Sprint which means faster movement. Sprint opens up combat opportunities such as Being able to take cover faster, allow players to avoid threats like grenades and travel faster while not breaking concept or moving at ridiculous speeds like thrust or dash. And to your Third point, Spartan Abilities are a step too far for halo. The MK V Armour didn’t have thrusters requiring a EVA ascension pack to match the thrusting capability of the previous MK IV. A soldier shouldn’t be able to dash because it is similar to what you said about protection (it could cause collateral damage). Call of duty had the same problem with rapid pace combat (that’s titan fall’s thing). Spartan Charge Breaks the element of CQB. It also makes weapons like the Sniper Rifle and Rail gun and other long range weapons harder to use for less skilled players because everyone is dashing about. To add on I respect you talking about the lore but there are instances where Spartans have been able to run. And Noble Two’s Module increased the speed capability temporarily which is similar (Not Exactly) to a stimulant boost from other games. Though I care for the Lore of halo (as I read halo books.) Were talking about the movement system in halo not the lore.

15850

> 2535473481267884;15848:
> > 2793974233125388;15847:
> > > 2533274833081329;15809:
> > > > 2793974233125388;15807:
> > > > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.
> > >
> > > It was really flawed that an armored super soldier can’t swim in these games (including Halo 5), but no one is complaining about that.
> >
> > True. But Swimming isn’t as much as an issue as sprint. There also is rarely any water or pond or sea areas in halo 5 arena maps. this is about sprinting. Talk about sprint.
>
> Lol? You try to justify a gameplay mechanic with lore and then it makes you wonder, that someone else does the same thing to turn your own argument against you.
> Lore should not effect gameplay. It doesn’t even increase pace, in fact it slows the game down. You were able to travel way faster with teleporters & man cannons. It doesn’t allow more combat oppurtunies, in fact it just restricts you. Movement + Shooting part get seperated. In the real formular you were able to shoot, run, crouch jump, dodge all at once without letting your gun for 1 sec. down.
> In order to implement sprint in Halo, every other element of the game had to change and still to this day it doesn’t fit in Halos Sandbox.
>
> <p></p>

I’m not talking about the lore (Read the actual thing I am talking about) I am expressing my opinion on the movement system in halo (Sprint) though I respect the idea of swimming and I would like it, We are not talking about swimming we are talking about sprinting. Also I explained why Swimming doesn’t really apply much to halo 5 arena and warzone.

15851

> 2793974233125388;15847:
> > 2533274833081329;15809:
> > > 2793974233125388;15807:
> > > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.
> >
> > It was really flawed that an armored super soldier can’t swim in these games (including Halo 5), but no one is complaining about that.
>
> True. But Swimming isn’t as much as an issue as sprint. There also is rarely any water or pond or sea areas in halo 5 arena maps. this is about sprinting. Talk about sprint.

Swimming isn’t an issue because not many people here are desperately asking for swim mechanics due to realism. For some reason that only applies to sprint. Which begs the question, why is specifically sprint the one that should be included because of realism and barely because of gameplay?

Halo 5’s Battle of Sunion takes place…on the sea. “Realistically” if we Spartans couldn’t swim, that would be the worst place to be due to all the rushing water. Arena maps don’t have water because we don’t have swimming mechanics.

That’s why I bring up swimming. It’s something that happens in the lore, something that happens directly in cutscenes, adds realism, and doesn’t “harm the game.” But no one says we need swimming for the immersion or they feel like a walking tank without it.

> 2793974233125388;15849:
> Allow me to explain. Firstly it increases the pace and flow of combat which I see as new and familiar at the same time. All Players would be capable of preforming Sprint which means faster movement. Sprint opens up combat opportunities such as Being able to take cover faster, allow players to avoid threats like grenades and travel faster while not breaking concept or moving at ridiculous speeds like thrust or dash. And to your Third point, Spartan Abilities are a step too far for halo. The MK V Armour didn’t have thrusters requiring a EVA ascension pack to match the thrusting capability of the previous MK IV. A soldier shouldn’t be able to dash because it is similar to what you said about protection (it could cause collateral damage). Call of duty had the same problem with rapid pace combat (that’s titan fall’s thing). Spartan Charge Breaks the element of CQB. It also makes weapons like the Sniper Rifle and Rail gun and other long range weapons harder to use for less skilled players because everyone is dashing about. To add on I respect you talking about the lore but there are instances where Spartans have been able to run. And Noble Two’s Module increased the speed capability temporarily which is similar (Not Exactly) to a stimulant boost from other games. Though I care for the Lore of halo (as I read halo books.) Were talking about the movement system in halo not the lore.

Faster Movement isn’t something we needed Sprint to do. All we have to do is increase the Base movement speed and now everyone is going faster while still going the same speed. Allowing people to take cover faster just turns it into a crutch to avoid a death one logically deserved, and now the attacker can’t obtain the kill unless he stops shooting and starts sprinting after him, creating a stop-and-shoot level of gameplay, reminiscent of Call of Duty.

Spartan Charge is almost entirely created around Sprint and the problem it brought since Halo Reach. It’s there to prevent you from going from Sprint to an immediate melee and pull off the second melee before the opponent can even realize what’s going on and react. It’s a visual way of saying “Here is a melee that’s not like your regular melee because it has a longer cooldown.”

15852

> 2793974233125388;15850:
> > 2535473481267884;15848:
> > > 2793974233125388;15847:
> > > > 2533274833081329;15809:
> > > > > 2793974233125388;15807:
> > > > > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.
> > > >
> > > > It was really flawed that an armored super soldier can’t swim in these games (including Halo 5), but no one is complaining about that.
> > >
> > > True. But Swimming isn’t as much as an issue as sprint. There also is rarely any water or pond or sea areas in halo 5 arena maps. this is about sprinting. Talk about sprint.
> >
> > Lol? You try to justify a gameplay mechanic with lore and then it makes you wonder, that someone else does the same thing to turn your own argument against you.
> > Lore should not effect gameplay. It doesn’t even increase pace, in fact it slows the game down. You were able to travel way faster with teleporters & man cannons. It doesn’t allow more combat oppurtunies, in fact it just restricts you. Movement + Shooting part get seperated. In the real formular you were able to shoot, run, crouch jump, dodge all at once without letting your gun for 1 sec. down.
> > In order to implement sprint in Halo, every other element of the game had to change and still to this day it doesn’t fit in Halos Sandbox.
> >
> > <p></p>
>
> I’m not talking about the lore (Read the actual thing I am talking about) I am expressing my opinion on the movement system in halo (Sprint) though I respect the idea of swimming and I would like it, We are not talking about swimming we are talking about sprinting. Also I explained why Swimming doesn’t really apply much to halo 5 arena and warzone.

His point was not the implementation of swimming in Halo, his point is that this lore argument for justifying gameplay mechanics is not worth to be called an good argument.
Of course you do, let me quote you: **“I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games”**You will run into 1000 plotholes, if you try to defend gameplay mechanics with arguments like these.

Let me quote your other points, I’ve allready applied to this, but here I go again

"Firstly it increases the pace and flow of combat which I see as new and familiar at the same time. All Players would be capable of preforming Sprint which means faster movement." - No, it doesn’t. In fact, sprint slows the gameplay down. Instead of beeing able to shoot, run (at your maximum speed), crouch jump, dodge all at the same time, without letting your gun down for 1 second with the Run’N’Gun Formular, you’ll be forced to seperate your movement and the moments you engage your enemys. In fact, clambering made it even worse, introducing another ability where you have to let your gun down + making power positions, unique things like the wheel on Zanzibar completly useless.TTK, Map Design, the range of your weapons, your Map Layout (Sightlines etc), vehicles, Man Cannons, Teleporters, Projectile / Hitscan based Weapons, all of these things are way more important for the pace of the game.

"Sprint opens up combat opportunities such as Being able to take cover faster, allow players to avoid threats like grenades and travel faster while not breaking concept or moving at ridiculous speeds like thrust or dash" - As I’ve already said, it brings more restriction with it, nothing else. In order to implement Sprint in Halos Sandbox, you have to change the whole game. And they did - vehicles are becoming less and less desireable (unless you sit in a tank / banshee), Man Cannons / Teleporters had been completty tossed aside, TTK has decreased, bullet magnetism has increased, the grenades have become way more powerful, the maps had been stretched out (which led to useless dead zones in multiplayer & campaign) - You’re not to supposed to sprint away from a grenade. Why should this game reward you for bad positioning? In the real Halo Formular, you’re supposed to engage your opponent, if you’re not able to take cover while you’re firing at him, it’s your own fault. I mean that’s the point of a shooter. How does it make your game more faster, when you have to stop engaging your enemy, to turn your back on him and just sprint away? Combined with the slower TTk, it just becomes frustating.“Spartan Charge Breaks the element of CQB. It also makes weapons like the Sniper Rifle and Rail gun and other long range weapons harder to use for less skilled players because everyone is dashing about.” - The spartan charge is indeed an annoying ability, you’re right. But that doesn’t change the fact, that the Sniper Rifle has heavily increased Bullet Magnetism now, it’s the easiest sniper rifle to use in any of the Halo games. And the railgun? Of all the weapons in the history of Halo, there is no other power weapon (Upgraded versions in Warzone not included), which is easier to use. A one hit Hitscan Kill weapon with a lot of range.I mean, at least you try to bring arguments (unlike other people).

15853

I suppose you have a valid point. Sprint however wasn’t an issue in halo reach and halo 4. Let me quote you. “Why should the game reward you from running from a grenade?” The Grenades have a very short timer before exploding it should be able to be dodged easier. I think in halo that almost everything should have a counter also it’s quite often in my game there’s a loose grenade. I’d want to have a chance to surrviving it. There are chances of players surviving ambushes even if they are low. Why can’t this be so for halo 5? Also your talking about game change which I can agree with. I think that every play style should have a strength and a weakness and sprint shouldn’t be like ice skating I think the best way to counteract sprint would be to make vechicle’s more ramped up maybe increase the speed and decrease the board range

15854

> 2793974233125388;15853:
> I suppose you have a valid point. Sprint however wasn’t an issue in halo reach and halo 4. Let me quote you. “Why should the game reward you from running from a grenade?” The Grenades have a very short timer before exploding it should be able to be dodged easier. I think in halo that almost everything should have a counter also it’s quite often in my game there’s a loose grenade. I’d want to have a chance to surrviving it. There are chances of players surviving ambushes even if they are low. Why can’t this be so for halo 5? Also your talking about game change which I can agree with. I think that every play style should have a strength and a weakness and sprint shouldn’t be like ice skating I think the best way to counteract sprint would be to make vechicle’s more ramped up maybe increase the speed and decrease the board range

Also said plot holes were filled sprinting has happened in the books whilst spartans were wearing MK IV MK V and MK VI the module created by Kat disabled the speed restrictions allowing a spartan to run faster. Similar to a stim boost

15855

> 2533274833081329;15851:
> > 2793974233125388;15847:
> > > 2533274833081329;15809:
> > > > 2793974233125388;15807:
> > > > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.
> > >
> > > It was really flawed that an armored super soldier can’t swim in these games (including Halo 5), but no one is complaining about that.
> >
> > True. But Swimming isn’t as much as an issue as sprint. There also is rarely any water or pond or sea areas in halo 5 arena maps. this is about sprinting. Talk about sprint.
>
> Swimming isn’t an issue because not many people here are desperately asking for swim mechanics due to realism. For some reason that only applies to sprint. Which begs the question, why is specifically sprint the one that should be included because of realism and barely because of gameplay?
>
> Halo 5’s Battle of Sunion takes place…on the sea. “Realistically” if we Spartans couldn’t swim, that would be the worst place to be due to all the rushing water. Arena maps don’t have water because we don’t have swimming mechanics.
>
> That’s why I bring up swimming. It’s something that happens in the lore, something that happens directly in cutscenes, adds realism, and doesn’t “harm the game.” But no one says we need swimming for the immersion or they feel like a walking tank without it.
>
>
>
>
> > 2793974233125388;15849:
> > Allow me to explain. Firstly it increases the pace and flow of combat which I see as new and familiar at the same time. All Players would be capable of preforming Sprint which means faster movement. Sprint opens up combat opportunities such as Being able to take cover faster, allow players to avoid threats like grenades and travel faster while not breaking concept or moving at ridiculous speeds like thrust or dash. And to your Third point, Spartan Abilities are a step too far for halo. The MK V Armour didn’t have thrusters requiring a EVA ascension pack to match the thrusting capability of the previous MK IV. A soldier shouldn’t be able to dash because it is similar to what you said about protection (it could cause collateral damage). Call of duty had the same problem with rapid pace combat (that’s titan fall’s thing). Spartan Charge Breaks the element of CQB. It also makes weapons like the Sniper Rifle and Rail gun and other long range weapons harder to use for less skilled players because everyone is dashing about. To add on I respect you talking about the lore but there are instances where Spartans have been able to run. And Noble Two’s Module increased the speed capability temporarily which is similar (Not Exactly) to a stimulant boost from other games. Though I care for the Lore of halo (as I read halo books.) Were talking about the movement system in halo not the lore.
>
> Faster Movement isn’t something we needed Sprint to do. All we have to do is increase the Base movement speed and now everyone is going faster while still going the same speed. Allowing people to take cover faster just turns it into a crutch to avoid a death one logically deserved, and now the attacker can’t obtain the kill unless he stops shooting and starts sprinting after him, creating a stop-and-shoot level of gameplay, reminiscent of Call of Duty.
>
> Spartan Charge is almost entirely created around Sprint and the problem it brought since Halo Reach. It’s there to prevent you from going from Sprint to an immediate melee and pull off the second melee before the opponent can even realize what’s going on and react. It’s a visual way of saying “Here is a melee that’s not like your regular melee because it has a longer cooldown.”

Regardless if it has a cooldown spartan charge is an issue unlike call of duty there are other paths which lead into an area you could toss a frag in the entrance in front and flank him. But you have a good point I’ll give you that.

15856

> 2533274833081329;15851:
> > 2793974233125388;15847:
> > > 2533274833081329;15809:
> > > > 2793974233125388;15807:
> > > > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.
> > >
> > > It was really flawed that an armored super soldier can’t swim in these games (including Halo 5), but no one is complaining about that.
> >
> > True. But Swimming isn’t as much as an issue as sprint. There also is rarely any water or pond or sea areas in halo 5 arena maps. this is about sprinting. Talk about sprint.
>
> Swimming isn’t an issue because not many people here are desperately asking for swim mechanics due to realism. For some reason that only applies to sprint. Which begs the question, why is specifically sprint the one that should be included because of realism and barely because of gameplay?
>
> Halo 5’s Battle of Sunion takes place…on the sea. “Realistically” if we Spartans couldn’t swim, that would be the worst place to be due to all the rushing water. Arena maps don’t have water because we don’t have swimming mechanics.
>
> That’s why I bring up swimming. It’s something that happens in the lore, something that happens directly in cutscenes, adds realism, and doesn’t “harm the game.” But no one says we need swimming for the immersion or they feel like a walking tank without it.
>
>
>
>
> > 2793974233125388;15849:
> > Allow me to explain. Firstly it increases the pace and flow of combat which I see as new and familiar at the same time. All Players would be capable of preforming Sprint which means faster movement. Sprint opens up combat opportunities such as Being able to take cover faster, allow players to avoid threats like grenades and travel faster while not breaking concept or moving at ridiculous speeds like thrust or dash. And to your Third point, Spartan Abilities are a step too far for halo. The MK V Armour didn’t have thrusters requiring a EVA ascension pack to match the thrusting capability of the previous MK IV. A soldier shouldn’t be able to dash because it is similar to what you said about protection (it could cause collateral damage). Call of duty had the same problem with rapid pace combat (that’s titan fall’s thing). Spartan Charge Breaks the element of CQB. It also makes weapons like the Sniper Rifle and Rail gun and other long range weapons harder to use for less skilled players because everyone is dashing about. To add on I respect you talking about the lore but there are instances where Spartans have been able to run. And Noble Two’s Module increased the speed capability temporarily which is similar (Not Exactly) to a stimulant boost from other games. Though I care for the Lore of halo (as I read halo books.) Were talking about the movement system in halo not the lore.
>
> Faster Movement isn’t something we needed Sprint to do. All we have to do is increase the Base movement speed and now everyone is going faster while still going the same speed. Allowing people to take cover faster just turns it into a crutch to avoid a death one logically deserved, and now the attacker can’t obtain the kill unless he stops shooting and starts sprinting after him, creating a stop-and-shoot level of gameplay, reminiscent of Call of Duty.
>
> Spartan Charge is almost entirely created around Sprint and the problem it brought since Halo Reach. It’s there to prevent you from going from Sprint to an immediate melee and pull off the second melee before the opponent can even realize what’s going on and react. It’s a visual way of saying “Here is a melee that’s not like your regular melee because it has a longer cooldown.”

We are talking about sprinting btw though I like the concept of swimming

15857

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2793974233125388;15856:
> > 2533274833081329;15851:
> > > 2793974233125388;15847:
> > > > 2533274833081329;15809:
> > > > > 2793974233125388;15807:
> > > > > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.
> > > >
> > > > It was really flawed that an armored super soldier can’t swim in these games (including Halo 5), but no one is complaining about that.
> > >
> > > True. But Swimming isn’t as much as an issue as sprint. There also is rarely any water or pond or sea areas in halo 5 arena maps. this is about sprinting. Talk about sprint.
> >
> > Swimming isn’t an issue because not many people here are desperately asking for swim mechanics due to realism. For some reason that only applies to sprint. Which begs the question, why is specifically sprint the one that should be included because of realism and barely because of gameplay?
> >
> > Halo 5’s Battle of Sunion takes place…on the sea. “Realistically” if we Spartans couldn’t swim, that would be the worst place to be due to all the rushing water. Arena maps don’t have water because we don’t have swimming mechanics.
> >
> > That’s why I bring up swimming. It’s something that happens in the lore, something that happens directly in cutscenes, adds realism, and doesn’t “harm the game.” But no one says we need swimming for the immersion or they feel like a walking tank without it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2793974233125388;15849:
> > > Allow me to explain. Firstly it increases the pace and flow of combat which I see as new and familiar at the same time. All Players would be capable of preforming Sprint which means faster movement. Sprint opens up combat opportunities such as Being able to take cover faster, allow players to avoid threats like grenades and travel faster while not breaking concept or moving at ridiculous speeds like thrust or dash. And to your Third point, Spartan Abilities are a step too far for halo. The MK V Armour didn’t have thrusters requiring a EVA ascension pack to match the thrusting capability of the previous MK IV. A soldier shouldn’t be able to dash because it is similar to what you said about protection (it could cause collateral damage). Call of duty had the same problem with rapid pace combat (that’s titan fall’s thing). Spartan Charge Breaks the element of CQB. It also makes weapons like the Sniper Rifle and Rail gun and other long range weapons harder to use for less skilled players because everyone is dashing about. To add on I respect you talking about the lore but there are instances where Spartans have been able to run. And Noble Two’s Module increased the speed capability temporarily which is similar (Not Exactly) to a stimulant boost from other games. Though I care for the Lore of halo (as I read halo books.) Were talking about the movement system in halo not the lore.
> >
> > Faster Movement isn’t something we needed Sprint to do. All we have to do is increase the Base movement speed and now everyone is going faster while still going the same speed. Allowing people to take cover faster just turns it into a crutch to avoid a death one logically deserved, and now the attacker can’t obtain the kill unless he stops shooting and starts sprinting after him, creating a stop-and-shoot level of gameplay, reminiscent of Call of Duty.
> >
> > Spartan Charge is almost entirely created around Sprint and the problem it brought since Halo Reach. It’s there to prevent you from going from Sprint to an immediate melee and pull off the second melee before the opponent can even realize what’s going on and react. It’s a visual way of saying “Here is a melee that’s not like your regular melee because it has a longer cooldown.”
>
> We are talking about sprinting btw though I like the concept of swimming

The point.

Your head.

15858

> 2533274829213703;15857:
> > 2793974233125388;15856:
> > > 2533274833081329;15851:
> > > > 2793974233125388;15847:
> > > > > 2533274833081329;15809:
> > > > > > 2793974233125388;15807:
> > > > > > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.
> > > > >
> > > > > It was really flawed that an armored super soldier can’t swim in these games (including Halo 5), but no one is complaining about that.
> > > >
> > > > True. But Swimming isn’t as much as an issue as sprint. There also is rarely any water or pond or sea areas in halo 5 arena maps. this is about sprinting. Talk about sprint.
> > >
> > > Swimming isn’t an issue because not many people here are desperately asking for swim mechanics due to realism. For some reason that only applies to sprint. Which begs the question, why is specifically sprint the one that should be included because of realism and barely because of gameplay?
> > >
> > > Halo 5’s Battle of Sunion takes place…on the sea. “Realistically” if we Spartans couldn’t swim, that would be the worst place to be due to all the rushing water. Arena maps don’t have water because we don’t have swimming mechanics.
> > >
> > > That’s why I bring up swimming. It’s something that happens in the lore, something that happens directly in cutscenes, adds realism, and doesn’t “harm the game.” But no one says we need swimming for the immersion or they feel like a walking tank without it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2793974233125388;15849:
> > > > Allow me to explain. Firstly it increases the pace and flow of combat which I see as new and familiar at the same time. All Players would be capable of preforming Sprint which means faster movement. Sprint opens up combat opportunities such as Being able to take cover faster, allow players to avoid threats like grenades and travel faster while not breaking concept or moving at ridiculous speeds like thrust or dash. And to your Third point, Spartan Abilities are a step too far for halo. The MK V Armour didn’t have thrusters requiring a EVA ascension pack to match the thrusting capability of the previous MK IV. A soldier shouldn’t be able to dash because it is similar to what you said about protection (it could cause collateral damage). Call of duty had the same problem with rapid pace combat (that’s titan fall’s thing). Spartan Charge Breaks the element of CQB. It also makes weapons like the Sniper Rifle and Rail gun and other long range weapons harder to use for less skilled players because everyone is dashing about. To add on I respect you talking about the lore but there are instances where Spartans have been able to run. And Noble Two’s Module increased the speed capability temporarily which is similar (Not Exactly) to a stimulant boost from other games. Though I care for the Lore of halo (as I read halo books.) Were talking about the movement system in halo not the lore.
> > >
> > > Faster Movement isn’t something we needed Sprint to do. All we have to do is increase the Base movement speed and now everyone is going faster while still going the same speed. Allowing people to take cover faster just turns it into a crutch to avoid a death one logically deserved, and now the attacker can’t obtain the kill unless he stops shooting and starts sprinting after him, creating a stop-and-shoot level of gameplay, reminiscent of Call of Duty.
> > >
> > > Spartan Charge is almost entirely created around Sprint and the problem it brought since Halo Reach. It’s there to prevent you from going from Sprint to an immediate melee and pull off the second melee before the opponent can even realize what’s going on and react. It’s a visual way of saying “Here is a melee that’s not like your regular melee because it has a longer cooldown.”
> >
> > We are talking about sprinting btw though I like the concept of swimming
>
> The point.
> I’m only making an opinion I have a right to as do all of you but I think the movement system in Halo 5 is bad and it doesn’t take a genius to understand sprinting in a halo game and what it offers . Whether you think it’s good or bad is up to you. I have played all of the halos and I liked at least one thing from them. Spartan abilities break the flow of combat in halo whilst sprint can increase the speed. Some argue that you can’t shoot or throw grenades whilst sprinting. Obviously it would break the game if you could run and shoot. I liked dual wielding in Halo 2 and 3 but I found H2 dual wielding broken as you spawned with an SMG which could be an advantage if you killed someone. Sprinting is similar to a vechile. It makes you move faster and there is no advantage over anyone else as everyone has it.

15859

I’m not quoting since it is now buggered up.

My joke was to show that you missed the previous poster’s point, since you felt you had to remind him we are talking about sprint.

You say only spartan abilites break the flow, but having to drop your gun to go full speed also breaks the flow since you can’t shoot or throw grenades. Sprint increases the speed, up until you get into a firefight and have to slow down.

You also say running and shooting would break the game, but many previous Halos have done just that without using a resticting animation.

Vehicles are a controlable variable though, seeing as you can remove it from certain maps. Sprint on the other hand makes every map have to account for it.

15860

I dont like sprint. its Influence on map design (for example unnesesary stretching creating open long fields) and similiar to boosters it is a “ceap way to save somone who acctualy deserved to get killed”. Of course it is fair in a sense that evryone now has it but sprint and armorabilities in generall have too much what i would say negative influence on evrything around it . In older Halos higher Mobility was rather an Reward For good teamwork or individuall skill becuase you had to controll certain passages that where quicker or mancannons,teleports etc… maybe getting a certain vehicel into your controll or simply stealing enemies vehicels so a larger share of your own team can be transportet. The Design of Maps/Modes was the limiter, the Map designer decided how much mobility he wants to have on his map , wich sections to slow down wich to speed up . The entire map this way was balanced in itself. Sprint on the other hand limits modes and mapdesigners they have to factor in these , maybe taking some shortcoomings as cause for that. I never felt like the older halos lacked speed or something ( not in the fighting sense by nature halo fights due to the arena nature , ideas and simple ID of the franchise are slower in comparasion) the only areas wich were super slow were designed to be used with vehicels etc and usually would even take with sprint a long time to traverse so somone ones “tactical stupidity” in in my opinion no excuse to include sprint, espacialy when said section probably would be elongatet even more because the map designer dosent want somone running around without a vehicel in said section.

And Guys letz be honest , Halo right now isnt doing as great as it was and it needs to be “different” or “special” to put simply “iconic” to its roots and game so people regognize it or atleast that it stands out in the mass market of sci fi Shooters , otherwise when time will pass by and the old fans arent really there anymore it will be forgotten with the rest, Though i am happy to see 343 understands how important the ID of Halo ist hence the return of the Artstyle in Infinite (hopefully gameplay too)

15861

Just a quick word regarding Sprint potentially increasing the pace of gameplay:

That’s bunk. The maps designed in Halo 5 gave been elongated to account for Sprint. All Sprint does in that case, is kill your ability to fight back against someone who is not sprinting. As such, an increase in BMS would accomplish what Sprint does, but also enables you to fight back on Halo 5 maps.

Regarding combat options,
You’re better off running than you are sprinting. Sprinting doesn’t enable you to fight back, so you have to stop sprinting in order to play. Therefore, sprinting increasing combat options is also absolute bunk.

There are many, many pages of back and forth where this has been proven in greater detail. I suggest anyone curious check those out.

15862

> 2533275031935123;15861:
> Just a quick word regarding Sprint potentially increasing the pace of gameplay:
>
> That’s bunk. The maps designed in Halo 5 gave been elongated to account for Sprint. All Sprint does in that case, is kill your ability to fight back against someone who is not sprinting. As such, an increase in BMS would accomplish what Sprint does, but also enables you to fight back on Halo 5 maps.
>
> Regarding combat options,
> You’re better off running than you are sprinting. Sprinting doesn’t enable you to fight back, so you have to stop sprinting in order to play. Therefore, sprinting increasing combat options is also absolute bunk.
>
> There are many, many pages of back and forth where this has been proven in greater detail. I suggest anyone curious check those out.

For those who don’t want to read for whatever reason, this video does a pretty good job of explaining why sprint, along with other spartan abilities, don’t work well:

15863

> 2533274870910149;15860:
> I dont like sprint. its Influence on map design (for example unnesesary stretching creating open long fields) and similiar to boosters it is a “ceap way to save somone who acctualy deserved to get killed”. Of course it is fair in a sense that evryone now has it but sprint and armorabilities in generall have too much what i would say negative influence on evrything around it . In older Halos higher Mobility was rather an Reward For good teamwork or individuall skill becuase you had to controll certain passages that where quicker or mancannons,teleports etc… maybe getting a certain vehicel into your controll or simply stealing enemies vehicels so a larger share of your own team can be transportet. The Design of Maps/Modes was the limiter, the Map designer decided how much mobility he wants to have on his map , wich sections to slow down wich to speed up . The entire map this way was balanced in itself. Sprint on the other hand limits modes and mapdesigners they have to factor in these , maybe taking some shortcoomings as cause for that. I never felt like the older halos lacked speed or something ( not in the fighting sense by nature halo fights due to the arena nature , ideas and simple ID of the franchise are slower in comparasion) the only areas wich were super slow were designed to be used with vehicels etc and usually would even take with sprint a long time to traverse so somone ones “tactical stupidity” in in my opinion no excuse to include sprint, espacialy when said section probably would be elongatet even more because the map designer dosent want somone running around without a vehicel in said section.
>
> And Guys letz be honest , Halo right now isnt doing as great as it was and it needs to be “different” or “special” to put simply “iconic” to its roots and game so people regognize it or atleast that it stands out in the mass market of sci fi Shooters , otherwise when time will pass by and the old fans arent really there anymore it will be forgotten with the rest, Though i am happy to see 343 understands how important the ID of Halo ist hence the return of the Artstyle in Infinite (hopefully gameplay too)

  1. How do you determine who “deserves to get killed”? I can make the argument that the attacker didn’t deserve the kill with the same logic of bad positioning if sprint of all things saved the other player.

  2. They never felt slow to you, but many think they did. Halo 3’s movement in particular feels so sluggish some compare it to tortoise movement or wading. But that’s just the vocal guys, who as a general rule are a minority. We don’t have any evidence that could point to the general opinion of speed among the silent majority.

  3. The “map designer designs the flow of the game” logic itself is why classic feels limiting. It flows great, for sure. But the maps are designed in a way where there’s only one or two plays that are viable per section (don’t forget the atrocious nade spam on maps like Guardian and Midship). Sprint and other abilities help you dodge attacks so there isn’t always a strict “play-counterplay” pattern to everything. For example, on maps like Truth, you can’t just spam nades on the sides of the map, because that can be negated with a Thrust, making the plays more situational and less “textbook”, if you understand me.

  4. There is no evidence that can pin the decline of Halo strictly on sprint and modern movement.

15864

> 2793974233125388;15849:
> Firstly it increases the pace and flow of combat which I see as new and familiar at the same time. All Players would be capable of preforming Sprint which means faster movement.

So it’s “nah it does not increase the pace”?
You don’t explain why or how it increases the pacing, because all you’re doing is saying the same thing I asked you to elaborate on, with different wording.
Pace and flow of “combat”?
Is combat here an encounter where you’re using your weapons and other tools to actively fight another player? Because you can’t use sprint in combat, you can’t hurt your opponent while sprinting.
All players are capable of sprinting, and faster movement is achieved, but your leaving out map design from that. There’s also the question why offensive capabilities need to be disabled with higher movement speeds.

> 2793974233125388;15849:
> Sprint opens up combat opportunities such as Being able to take cover faster, allow players to avoid threats like grenades and travel faster while not breaking concept or moving at ridiculous speeds like thrust or dash.

Considering that there’s the stopping power thing in which being shot throws you out of sprint if you haven’t reached maximum velocity, taking cover faster isn’t actually something you’ll be doing with sprint, in combat, as long as your opponent can actually hit you. If they can’t hit you while you’re facing away from them moving in a forward line only, I don’t see why you’d be running from them. That’s besides the point though.
Your only point provided from “combat opportunities” is an escape method which overshadow most other escape tactics, then again most ususally thrust into safesty first, then take a hike with sprint as to decrease the chance of getting knocked out of sprint. Either way, taking cover easier is also one of those things which have been nerfed and nerfed again with sprint.
Another thing to consider is the availability of cover, which comes down to map design again.
I’m quite sure grenades take sprinting and thrusting into account when those are balanced.
What do you want to achieve with “traveling faster”? Not even certain what “breaking concept” is supposed to mean, but hey, that’s me.
Traveling faster usually comes down to “get places at a timely fashion”, which comes, again, down to map design. You’re not going to get anywhere faster than a map designer intended you to. Wether or not sprint is present in the game.

> 2793974233125388;15849:
> And to your Third point, Spartan Abilities are a step too far for halo. The MK V Armour didn’t have thrusters requiring a EVA ascension pack to match the thrusting capability of the previous MK IV. A soldier shouldn’t be able to dash because it is similar to what you said about protection (it could cause collateral damage).

So what with older armors not having thrusters if they didn’t have the upgraded pack?
I’m quite sure these are augmented soldiers encased in a highly advanced titanium armor, not your ordinary soldier.
I’d also question “collateral damage” as a lore argument to not have thrusting or dashing.
See, sprinting strains the moving part of the body, a muscle which does not have the time to properly stretch will tear apart at the weakest points.
A thrust applies g-forces, so does a spartan charge, we’ve got suits today which can protect a user somewhat from these g-forces and their negative impact on a body.
Quite sure a Mjolnir does the same, and better.
The only thing to worry about is the collision, the sudden stop, which applies more g-forces, but it’s unlikely those forces would have a larger impact on the user considering all the other stuff the suit and the wearer can experience.

> 2793974233125388;15849:
> Call of duty had the same problem with rapid pace combat (that’s titan fall’s thing).

So what kind of pacing is wanted, and could you actually define that?

> 2793974233125388;15849:
> Spartan Charge Breaks the element of CQB. It also makes weapons like the Sniper Rifle and Rail gun and other long range weapons harder to use for less skilled players because everyone is dashing about.

How does Spartan charge break CQB?
So should Snipers and Rail guns be easier to use for less skilled players?
Which in turn would mean they’re easier for everyone?

> 2793974233125388;15849:
> To add on I respect you talking about the lore but there are instances where Spartans have been able to run. And Noble Two’s Module increased the speed capability temporarily which is similar (Not Exactly) to a stimulant boost from other games. Though I care for the Lore of halo (as I read halo books.) Were talking about the movement system in halo not the lore.

I only brought up realism / lore due to this:

> 2793974233125388;15807:
> I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan.

So it’s ok that an Armoured super soldier in an advanced armor can sprint in the game because it seems flawed they couldn’t?
But that same armoured super soldier in an advanced armor shouldn’t be able to thrust and charge, because you want it to be about gameplay reasons? Yet you take up some lore points as well.
You took up realism / lore, I questioned that.
I mean, we still have lots of other basic actions, for example prone, corner leaning and blind firing.

15865

> 2533274795123910;15864:
> > 2793974233125388;15849:
> > Firstly it increases the pace and flow of combat which I see as new and familiar at the same time. All Players would be capable of preforming Sprint which means faster movement.
>
> So it’s “nah it does not increase the pace”?
> You don’t explain why or how it increases the pacing, because all you’re doing is saying the same thing I asked you to elaborate on, with different wording.
> Pace and flow of “combat”?
> Is combat here an encounter where you’re using your weapons and other tools to actively fight another player? Because you can’t use sprint in combat, you can’t hurt your opponent while sprinting.
> All players are capable of sprinting, and faster movement is achieved, but your leaving out map design from that. There’s also the question why offensive capabilities need to be disabled with higher movement speeds.
>
>
>
>
> > 2793974233125388;15849:
> > Sprint opens up combat opportunities such as Being able to take cover faster, allow players to avoid threats like grenades and travel faster while not breaking concept or moving at ridiculous speeds like thrust or dash.
>
> Considering that there’s the stopping power thing in which being shot throws you out of sprint if you haven’t reached maximum velocity, taking cover faster isn’t actually something you’ll be doing with sprint, in combat, as long as your opponent can actually hit you. If they can’t hit you while you’re facing away from them moving in a forward line only, I don’t see why you’d be running from them. That’s besides the point though.
> Your only point provided from “combat opportunities” is an escape method which overshadow most other escape tactics, then again most ususally thrust into safesty first, then take a hike with sprint as to decrease the chance of getting knocked out of sprint. Either way, taking cover easier is also one of those things which have been nerfed and nerfed again with sprint.
> Another thing to consider is the availability of cover, which comes down to map design again.
> I’m quite sure grenades take sprinting and thrusting into account when those are balanced.
> What do you want to achieve with “traveling faster”? Not even certain what “breaking concept” is supposed to mean, but hey, that’s me.
> Traveling faster usually comes down to “get places at a timely fashion”, which comes, again, down to map design. You’re not going to get anywhere faster than a map designer intended you to. Wether or not sprint is present in the game.
>
>
>
>
> > 2793974233125388;15849:
> > And to your Third point, Spartan Abilities are a step too far for halo. The MK V Armour didn’t have thrusters requiring a EVA ascension pack to match the thrusting capability of the previous MK IV. A soldier shouldn’t be able to dash because it is similar to what you said about protection (it could cause collateral damage).
>
> So what with older armors not having thrusters if they didn’t have the upgraded pack?
> I’m quite sure these are augmented soldiers encased in a highly advanced titanium armor, not your ordinary soldier.
> I’d also question “collateral damage” as a lore argument to not have thrusting or dashing.
> See, sprinting strains the moving part of the body, a muscle which does not have the time to properly stretch will tear apart at the weakest points.
> A thrust applies g-forces, so does a spartan charge, we’ve got suits today which can protect a user somewhat from these g-forces and their negative impact on a body.
> Quite sure a Mjolnir does the same, and better.
> The only thing to worry about is the collision, the sudden stop, which applies more g-forces, but it’s unlikely those forces would have a larger impact on the user considering all the other stuff the suit and the wearer can experience.
>
>
>
>
> > 2793974233125388;15849:
> > Call of duty had the same problem with rapid pace combat (that’s titan fall’s thing).
>
> So what kind of pacing is wanted, and could you actually define that?
>
>
>
>
> > 2793974233125388;15849:
> > Spartan Charge Breaks the element of CQB. It also makes weapons like the Sniper Rifle and Rail gun and other long range weapons harder to use for less skilled players because everyone is dashing about.
>
> How does Spartan charge break CQB?
> So should Snipers and Rail guns be easier to use for less skilled players?
> Which in turn would mean they’re easier for everyone?
>
>
>
>
> > 2793974233125388;15849:
> > To add on I respect you talking about the lore but there are instances where Spartans have been able to run. And Noble Two’s Module increased the speed capability temporarily which is similar (Not Exactly) to a stimulant boost from other games. Though I care for the Lore of halo (as I read halo books.) Were talking about the movement system in halo not the lore.
>
> I only brought up realism / lore due to this:
>
>
>
>
> > 2793974233125388;15807:
> > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan.
>
> So it’s ok that an Armoured super soldier in an advanced armor can sprint in the game because it seems flawed they couldn’t?
> But that same armoured super soldier in an advanced armor shouldn’t be able to thrust and charge, because you want it to be about gameplay reasons? Yet you take up some lore points as well.
> You took up realism / lore, I questioned that.
> I mean, we still have lots of other basic actions, for example prone, corner leaning and blind firing

How about we take this on Xbox party?