The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > > I play Halo every single day. I don’t play other games. I use sprint often. It’s obviously well thought out by the game designers and works as intended - in this game. Seems to me that people are asking for Halo 5 to be one of the previous Halo games. That doesn’t really seem practical, but I suppose 343 could create playlists that didn’t allow sprint similar to the Halo 3 Throwbacks. Would that make the anti-sprint people happy?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nice of you to think to offer something like that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Generally speaking, anti sprinters have zero ability to accept any form of compromise. They want Halo to be made their way or no way at all with very little thought given to all of us modern Halo fans who prefer that 343i sticks with sprint and modern movement mechanics.
> > > >
> > > > Well, when a company takes control of a beloved franchise that has seen success for over 10 years, decides to change everything from art style to mechanics, and tell the original fans of said franchise “if you don’t like it, play the old games” people are bound to get angry and I think we have every right to be. You say we are unwilling to compromise, yet we have constantly suggested to increase the bms and to either perfect one Spartan ability such as thrust, or try to implement certain abilities into the sandbox rather than as base mechanics. We’re more than willing to accept change and see Halo evolve, as long as that evolution isn’t at the cost of Halo’s identity. It seems like you’re the only one here that is unwilling to compromise.
>
> …calling the argument that X amount of the playerbase wants sprint “invalid” is overkill.

You’re wrong.

The fact that anti sprinters feel the need to incessantly hover over the sprint debate (wherever its taking place) waiting to attack any and all pro sprint opinions proves otherwise.

15807

I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.

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> I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.

There were built in protections in the armor preventing the user from reaching speeds which would harm themselves.
In Reach the sprint AA is a module created by Kat to temporarily disable said protection. Halsey was not happy with that.

Could you elaborate on how it actually increases the pace? Or should I just say “Nah it doesn’t increase the pace”.

What kind of new combat opportunities does sprint enable?

Why shouldn’t an advanced augmented super soldier in a high tech exoskeleton armor not be able to dash and thrust?

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> I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.

It was really flawed that an armored super soldier can’t swim in these games (including Halo 5), but no one is complaining about that.

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> > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.
>
> It was really flawed that an armored super soldier can’t swim in these games (including Halo 5), but no one is complaining about that.

Speaking of swimming, wouldn’t it be cool if we could integrate that in a future game? An underwater map where we’re actually in the water and using special underwater weapons in high buoyancy (scientifically infeasible, but it’s a game). Now that would be a good mode.

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> > > I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.
> >
> > It was really flawed that an armored super soldier can’t swim in these games (including Halo 5), but no one is complaining about that.
>
> Speaking of swimming, wouldn’t it be cool if we could integrate that in a future game? An underwater map where we’re actually in the water and using special underwater weapons in high buoyancy (scientifically infeasible, but it’s a game). Now that would be a good mode.

I wouldn’t be against that, but I would probably only prefer it as a sort of social mode.

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> I think that Sprint Should Remain in the halo games, It seemed really flawed that an Armoured super soldier couldn’t sprint in the older games. It gave me an impression I was a walking tank rather than a Spartan. Sprint increases the Pace, Yes it does and it allows more combat opportunities for each player and doesn’t change much else which balances the game. Mantling from Halo 5 would also be a welcomed addition for me as well. I also Hope that Halo Infinite doesn’t have the -Yoink!- Spartan abilities such as thrust and dash.

How can sprint increase the pace when maps are stretched to accommodate for it, and you’re unable to shoot while using? How can sprint provide more combat opportunities when sprint isn’t even used in combat?

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> Generally speaking, anti sprinters have zero ability to accept any form of compromise. They want Halo to be made their way or no way at all with very little thought given to all of us modern Halo fans who prefer that 343i sticks with sprint and modern movement mechanics.

Says mister “I will not buy Halo without sprint”. It’s not like the idea of having a high base movement speed with a high (or preferably customizeable) field of view and some visual speed cues while running hasn’t been thrown around. Anything to retain that sense of speed the fans of sprint crave, while not actually putting any limitations on what the player can do while moving at maximum speed. The lore guys get their explanation that the Mjolnir armor has a stabilizing feedback system that allows Spartans to maintain accuracy even at high speeds, or whatever. All of the major points that the fans of sprint generally bring up (that aren’t too vague) are addressed with this without actually having the sprint animation. It’s the solution that’s been with us since the beginning. It’s the realization of the anti-sprint slogan “everything sprint does can be accomplished by other means”.

But, of course, you don’t deem it an acceptable compromise because it gets rid of your precious sprint animation. An animation that you for some inexplicable reason, which I’ve tried to enquire about many times, deeply care about. Let’s face it, you’re as unwilling to compromise your sprint animation as we are to compromise the lack of it. You want Halo to be made your way or no way at all with very little thought given to all of us classic Halo fans who’d prefer 343i to remove sprint and modern movement mechanics.

That’s how it is. We all want the solution that satisfies us. There’s no point pretending that you’re more noble than that, because we know you’re not, and it isn’t anything to be ashamed of anyway.

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Edit: Wrong post

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> There’s no point pretending that you’re more noble than that…

No need to pretend, Pretender.

You’ll keep fighting your fight here, every way that you know how as you’ve been doing for well over a year now. I’ll just have to hope that your fight here fails and that you and this small pocket of anti sprinters aren’t successful in your continued efforts to ruin the best FPS gaming franchise on XB1.

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> > >
> >
> > There’s no point pretending that you’re more noble than that…
>
> No need to pretend, Pretender.
>
> You’ll keep fighting your fight here, every way that you know how as you’ve been doing for well over a year now. I’ll just have to hope that your fight here fails and that you and this small pocket of anti sprinters aren’t successful in your continued efforts to ruin the best FPS gaming franchise on XB1.

  1. Small pocket? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Where are your statistics? If it’s such a small pocket, where are the pro sprint guys?
  2. The best FPS gaming franchise on XB1? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No. 360? Yes. One? Halo has never been good on the one. The MCC was a disaster. So was 5. Halo is already only a fraction of what it once was. Spartan abilities, sprint, load outs, and sprint did a great job of killing the once large community Halo had. Look at Halo 4’s population as a graph and you’ll see, visually represented, a community dying.
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> > > > > > I play Halo every single day. I don’t play other games. I use sprint often. It’s obviously well thought out by the game designers and works as intended - in this game. Seems to me that people are asking for Halo 5 to be one of the previous Halo games. That doesn’t really seem practical, but I suppose 343 could create playlists that didn’t allow sprint similar to the Halo 3 Throwbacks. Would that make the anti-sprint people happy?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nice of you to think to offer something like that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Generally speaking, anti sprinters have zero ability to accept any form of compromise. They want Halo to be made their way or no way at all with very little thought given to all of us modern Halo fans who prefer that 343i sticks with sprint and modern movement mechanics.
> > > >
> > > > Well, when a company takes control of a beloved franchise that has seen success for over 10 years, decides to change everything from art style to mechanics, and tell the original fans of said franchise “if you don’t like it, play the old games” people are bound to get angry and I think we have every right to be. You say we are unwilling to compromise, yet we have constantly suggested to increase the bms and to either perfect one Spartan ability such as thrust, or try to implement certain abilities into the sandbox rather than as base mechanics. We’re more than willing to accept change and see Halo evolve, as long as that evolution isn’t at the cost of Halo’s identity. It seems like you’re the only one here that is unwilling to compromise.
> > >
> > > This could be a very good middle ground solution. I have gotten used to the increased mobility we’ve seen in the series since Reach and would much rather have the above (or what we have now) than, let’s say, Halo 3’s “I’m stuck in knee-deep water” movement speed. With that said, this won’t stop people from complaining. Ever since Halo 2, this community has proven time and time again it cannot be satisfied completely. People tend to have rose tinted glasses on when remembering what the community was like back when Halo 2 and 3 were still fresh. But still I agree that sprint must either be tweaked or removed (I’d much rather have the former).
> >
> > Sprint can’t really be tweaked, as if it becomes slower, it becomes useless. Why? If you’re sprinting, you can’t even aim. It’s a movement mechanic, not a combat one, or rather, it’s a chicken-out-of-a-combat mechanic. So is thrust, as you can’t aim (c’mon, lets be real here, it’s almost impossible to hit a shot mid thrust) or really even be aimed at when thrusting. While I do think campaigns should feature base movement speed, the animation in the originals makes you feel like a turtle. Perhaps something marginally faster looking? 110% or 120% of BMS with no second gear should please a fair amount of people.
> >
> > Furthermore, there’s a lore reason for you not to be able to sprint. That suit is HEAVY. I’ve worn heavy baseball equipment (thicker umpire padding, especially clunky steel tipped shoes and larger chest protectors) and been marginally slowed down. A near indestructible suit is going to feel like wading through water, even for an enhanced human.
> >
> > Finally, I want to address one more argument; not that you or anyone else has made it, but I feel it coming like you can feel a sneeze coming. The argument “most people want sprint” is entirely invalid; I’m sure most people want to be able to do infinite damage with every shot while others do zero. I’m sure we all want to be able to fly in Halo, or at least parts of us do. Historically, what people want is not always best for them; some of the most awful regimes in history started because people supported them. We need to look at what’s good for game balance, what’s good for making the game unique and original first, THEN what people want. If everyone had their way, Halo would be an unbalanced mess. That’s why we’re gamers, not game developers.
>
> I dunno man, I feel that there is a slight difference between Stalinist era USSR and Halo’s sprinting mechanics. Inept jokes aside, calling the argument that X amount of the playerbase wants sprint “invalid” is overkill. Sprint can be done in a way that doesn’t mess with game balance. You say sprint can’t be tweaked but I disagree. You could, for example, introduce a acceleration system where your Spartan gradually builds up speed (as opposed to going from 0-60 immediately as it is now). This will force players to rely less on sprint as a disengagement tool. You could go further and tweak it so stuff like Shoulder Charge can’t be activated until you reach max speed.

Shoulder charge (or spartan charge) probably isn’t sticking around. They already had to remove it in the HCS series because it’s so gamebreaking. Furthermore, an acceleration system still doesn’t fix sprint breaking campaign, because sprint does’t break when you get shot or when your shields are down. Furthermore, you can’t fire a gun when sprinting. Furthermore, maps are more spread out to compensate for sprint. That’s 3 reasons what sprint doesn’t work that are inherently tied to sprint. I’m sot saying that we can’t increase base movement speed, but I am saying a two gear movement system doesn’t work. Sprint does nothing other things can’t do.

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> > > >
> > >
> > > There’s no point pretending that you’re more noble than that…
> >
> > No need to pretend, Pretender.
> >
> > You’ll keep fighting your fight here, every way that you know how as you’ve been doing for well over a year now. I’ll just have to hope that your fight here fails and that you and this small pocket of anti sprinters aren’t successful in your continued efforts to ruin the best FPS gaming franchise on XB1.
>
> 1. Small pocket? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Where are your statistics? If it’s such a small pocket, where are the pro sprint guys?
> 2. The best FPS gaming franchise on XB1? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No. 360? Yes. One? Halo has never been good on the one. The MCC was a disaster. So was 5. Halo is already only a fraction of what it once was. Spartan abilities, sprint, load outs, and sprint did a great job of killing the once large community Halo had. Look at Halo 4’s population as a graph and you’ll see, visually represented, a community dying.

Okay, first you could just say “lol” man. We have abbreviations for a reason. I mean, unless you’re trying to be verbose, you use contractions and abbreviations to make your writing more concise. Problem is, “HAHAHAHA” isn’t verbose. I’m unimpressed by the vocabulary, and it’s not making your expression of thoughts any more figurative or artistic. It’s okay to be more parsimonious when it comes to your words, but “HAHAHAHA” just doesn’t look good man.

Sorry. Now that my compulsive rant is out of the way, let’s get into the meat and potatoes, shall we?

Addressing point numero uno: I think our good friend Balanced here is referring to this thread in particular, which in this case, you can’t say he’s wrong. I mean, there’s like what, 8 of us regulars here on this thread? That’s counting me, btw. While 8 might feel like a lot in our little group here considering we are acquainted with each other as far forum members go, 8 isn’t a lot in the big picture. I mean sure, you can count the guys on reddit and the comments, but the vocal minority is just that: a minority. To borrow from what Tsassi said, you can’t really ascertain the causes for decline for the silent majority. A stale game? Drifting interests? Being too busy? You can’t really say what’s causing the shrink unless you’ve been stalking millions of Halo players, which I like to believe is below you.

  1. That… is subjective to say the least. MCC was glitchy when it came to multiplayer, but the campaigns were fine (in my playthrough at the absolute -Yoinking- least). In that sense, is MCC objectively a disaster? If you’re like me and just fire up H2A with a podcast in the background, MCC is a great experience. So MCC’s “disaster” status can be debated. The H5 bit though? That’s projecting your opinions on others at the absolute finest.
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> >
> > There’s no point pretending that you’re more noble than that…
>
> No need to pretend, Pretender.
>
> You’ll keep fighting your fight here, every way that you know how as you’ve been doing for well over a year now. I’ll just have to hope that your fight here fails and that you and this small pocket of anti sprinters aren’t successful in your continued efforts to ruin the best FPS gaming franchise on XB1.

Isn’t Halo doing the worst it’s ever done?

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> > > >
> > >
> > > There’s no point pretending that you’re more noble than that…
> >
> > No need to pretend, Pretender.
> >
> > You’ll keep fighting your fight here, every way that you know how as you’ve been doing for well over a year now. I’ll just have to hope that your fight here fails and that you and this small pocket of anti sprinters aren’t successful in your continued efforts to ruin the best FPS gaming franchise on XB1.
>
> Isn’t Halo doing the worst it’s ever done?

We don’t have much evidence to say that sprint was the big gun here though.

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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > There’s no point pretending that you’re more noble than that…
> > >
> > > No need to pretend, Pretender.
> > >
> > > You’ll keep fighting your fight here, every way that you know how as you’ve been doing for well over a year now. I’ll just have to hope that your fight here fails and that you and this small pocket of anti sprinters aren’t successful in your continued efforts to ruin the best FPS gaming franchise on XB1.
> >
> > Isn’t Halo doing the worst it’s ever done?
>
> We don’t have much evidence to say that sprint was the big gun here though.

He said removing sprint would ruin the “best FPS gaming franchise on XB1”, I’m just pointing out it isn’t doing to well.

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> >
> > There’s no point pretending that you’re more noble than that…
>
> No need to pretend, Pretender.
>
> You’ll keep fighting your fight here, every way that you know how and using every resource available to you as a moderator in these forums. I’ll just have to hope that your fight here fails and that you and this small pocket of anti sprinters aren’t successful in ruining the best FPS gaming franchise.

I don’t think I’ve said anything that would warrant calling me a pretender. I believe I generally tend to be quite honest with myself, but if you disagree with that, feel free to point out where I’ve ben hypocritical, because I really try to be consistent with the opinions I present.

I feel like you’ve taken this whole discussion the wrong way from the start. You’ve taken this as if there’s something to be won here, as if you can’t admit or discuss anything that might go against your agenda in fear of some unwanted consequences. Regardless of what we all want from Halo, this thread isn’t a fight to be won. If the only thing you want is sprint to be kept in the game, and you don’t want to discuss about the mechanic in depth, you don’t need to be here. Same goes for just wanting rid of sprint. I’m sure 343i knows better than to base their game design decisions on how many people are saying what in some forum thread. And if you still think that’s the most important part, then here you go: 20% of the participants in this thread have expressed clear feelings against sprint, while 57% have presented clear feelings in favor of sprint. Whoop-de-doo, you won, you have nothing to worry about, you can leave. 343i will not look at this thread and suddenly think “gee, a lot of people sure don’t like sprint, better remove it” unless they already had a good reason to believe so otherwise. Can we get back to having an open discussion about sprint now?

I’ve told you before, I’m not here out of pure stubborness, fighting some fight. Heck, the two things I strongly believe in are 1) developers should not base design decisions too much on player feedback, and 2) the main purpose of forum discussion on game design decisions is not for players to provide direct feedback to the developers, but for players to share their thoughts with each other. You don’t find a person in this thread who values it less as a feedback source than I do. To me it has always been more about having a(ideally educational) discussion on everything regarding sprint. I come here, not because I think it will have any influence on future development of Halo, but because I find the topic interesting.

I believe that if you had come here with that same attitude, we wouldn’t be where we are now. You wouldn’t be so sorely disappointed with the anti-sprint side, because you would know that this discussion is purely academic in nature, and if people disagree with an opinion or a suggestion, it’s not big deal, because there are no stakes here, it’s just people having a discussion. You would perhaps be more open to having the discussion, and not ignore the more probing questions. You would, perhaps, be happier than you are now.

15823

Honestly I think the way to go is to just have EVERY part of the gameplay optional. some playlists can have sprint and and others have it turned off. I just REALLY hope they keep clamber. I understand if they get rid of spartan dash and ground pound. It’s time to just move on people. No, sprint is not a COD thing, it’s an FPS thing. Removing sprint from and FPS is like removing pistols from an FPS. May I remind you all that halo is a PLATFORMER, and without sprint, movement is stale and slow.

Go ahead, get rid of ground pound and spartan charge, but don’t you DARE touch sprint, clamber, ADS, and hover scope.

Just because Bungie didn’t make it, doesn’t mean its bad.

15824

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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> Honestly I think the way to go is to just have EVERY part of the gameplay optional. some playlists can have sprint and and others have it turned off. I just REALLY hope they keep clamber. I understand if they get rid of spartan dash and ground pound. It’s time to just move on people. No, sprint is not a COD thing, it’s an FPS thing. Removing sprint from and FPS is like removing pistols from an FPS. May I remind you all that halo is a PLATFORMER, and without sprint, movement is stale and slow.
>
> Go ahead, get rid of ground pound and spartan charge, but don’t you DARE touch sprint, clamber, ADS, and hover scope.
>
> Just because Bungie didn’t make it, doesn’t mean its bad.

Low quality bait.

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> > > >
> > >
> > > There’s no point pretending that you’re more noble than that…
> >
> > No need to pretend, Pretender.
> >
> > You’ll keep fighting your fight here, every way that you know how and using every resource available to you as a moderator in these forums. I’ll just have to hope that your fight here fails and that you and this small pocket of anti sprinters aren’t successful in ruining the best FPS gaming franchise.
>
> I don’t think I’ve said anything that would warrant calling me a pretender. I believe I generally tend to be quite honest with myself, but if you disagree with that, feel free to point out where I’ve ben hypocritical, because I really try to be consistent with the opinions I present.
>
> I feel like you’ve taken this whole discussion the wrong way from the start. You’ve taken this as if there’s something to be won here, as if you can’t admit or discuss anything that might go against your agenda in fear of some unwanted consequences. Regardless of what we all want from Halo, this thread isn’t a fight to be won. If the only thing you want is sprint to be kept in the game, and you don’t want to discuss about the mechanic in depth, you don’t need to be here. Same goes for just wanting rid of sprint. I’m sure 343i knows better than to base their game design decisions on how many people are saying what in some forum thread. And if you still think that’s the most important part, then here you go: 20% of the participants in this thread have expressed clear feelings against sprint, while 57% have presented clear feelings in favor of sprint. Whoop-de-doo, you won, you have nothing to worry about, you can leave. 343i will not look at this thread and suddenly think “gee, a lot of people sure don’t like sprint, better remove it” unless they already had a good reason to believe so otherwise. Can we get back to having an open discussion about sprint now?
>
> I’ve told you before, I’m not here out of pure stubborness, fighting some fight. Heck, the two things I strongly believe in are 1) developers should not base design decisions too much on player feedback, and 2) the main purpose of forum discussion on game design decisions is not for players to provide direct feedback to the developers, but for players to share their thoughts with each other. You don’t find a person in this thread who values it less as a feedback source than I do. To me it has always been more about having a(ideally educational) discussion on everything regarding sprint. I come here, not because I think it will have any influence on future development of Halo, but because I find the topic interesting.
>
> I believe that if you had come here with that same attitude, we wouldn’t be where we are now. You wouldn’t be so sorely disappointed with the anti-sprint side, because you would know that this discussion is purely academic in nature, and if people disagree with an opinion or a suggestion, it’s not big deal, because there are no stakes here, it’s just people having a discussion. You would perhaps be more open to having the discussion, and not ignore the more probing questions. You would, perhaps, be happier than you are now.

I’m not sure if this is because of the Halo infinite thread he’s in, but he made a lot of baseless claims about Halo, sprint and the current fps games, and we challenged them and asked him to back the claims up, and he just claimed that we wanted Halo to fail. Then continued on.

Either way, I’m seeing a theme.