> 2533274825830455;15250:
> Well, that definitely goes to the definition of “basic mechanics”. I kind of suspected it wouldn’t translate clearly enough, but by “basic” I practically mean things like movement, health, and the general weapon mechanics (which would include recoil, bloom, hitscan/projectiles, and so on). These are mechanics that somehow set the tune for the gameplay. For example, if there’s really agressive recoil and movement based bloom with low health, it leads to stop-and-shoot gameplay where hitting the first shots is very important. Then if there’s moderate health and fast movement without accuracy impeding mechanics, you get something more like Quake, and so on.
> In my opinion, these mechanics are the strongest determining factor on how the game feels, For Reach I don’t really factor in sprint, because it wasn’t yet the default, and I don’t factor in armor abilities because they were stuff on the top.
Yes, I fully understood what you meant by “basic mechanics”. Which is all the more reason why I was always perplexed about the conclusion you’ve drawn from the games.
Seeing as Reach had bloom (and re-introduced hitscan weapons after Halo 3), thereby changing shooting as a base mechanic - what did ODST so different to still make you feel like Reach was “an even smaller deperarture”? Is it all in the movement speed? Because that’s pretty much the only other mechanic that differes between ODST and Reach, if you discount the “fluff” like AAs.
EDIT: Btw, I just checked, ODST actually has higher FoV than Reach, even though the BMS is 20% slower. Maybe that’s why I personally never perceived it as being significantly different from Halo 3, which has higher BMS but lower FoV than both of them.
> 2533274850734574;15285:
> > 2535416198868046;15284:
> > > 2533274850734574;15283:
> > > I rather like sprint, it makes sense that a spartan can run from a tactical and lore standpoint, and it allows people o get certain things done quicker. I think that sprint does have a place in halo, but I also understand that people don’t like it, which is fine, you don’t have to use it in campaign and if there was a classic playlist option than that would help you guys out as well
> >
> > Yeah, but lore shouldn’t affect gameplay.
>
> fair enough, i just put that there because theres a lot of lore buffs who would appreciate it
Well, except you’re wrong, because sprint directly contradicts lore by forcing your weapon down in order to move faster, whereas in-universe Spartans are able to shoot while sprinting with pinpoint accuracy (and at faster speeds than sprint speed in the games).
Also, campaign is literally the first place I want sprint gone, because it messes with level design, sightlines, AI scripting and pathing, etc. I don’t care about mulitplayer, 343 could reduce the multiplayer to one weapon, one map, have blue team stand on the ceiling and moonwalking be the only method of moving, and it wouldn’t bother me. Single player is where it’s at, and single player is the last place I want sprint interfere with the gameplay.
> 2533274801176260;15286:
> Is it all in the movement speed? Because that’s pretty much the only other mechanic that differes between ODST and Reach, if you discount the “fluff” like AAs.
To be honest, it probably mostly is in the movement. Though I have to emphasize, that the appearance of the health system (however similar it actually might be), and the expectation of how different a game that’s just a slightly modified Halo 3 can actually be. It’s important to keep in mind that we’re discussing which game feels more like a spinoff in terms of gameplay, not which game actually has more changes made to it. It’s a subtle difference, and you can of course think that the latter determines the former, but it doesn’t need to be so. The more I think about it, my opinion likely stems from the fact that I judge both games relative to what they could’ve realistically been, not relative to Halo 3.
> 2533274801176260;15286:
> EDIT: Btw, I just checked, ODST actually has higher FoV than Reach, even though the BMS is 20% slower. Maybe that’s why I personally never perceived it as being significantly different from Halo 3, which has higher BMS but lower FoV than both of them.
Yep, it goes to show how big a difference the FoV really makes. I’m fairly sure that if Halo 3 had had 90 degrees, people wouldn’t criticize it for its apparent slowness.
> 2533274825830455;15288:
> > 2533274801176260;15286:
> > EDIT: Btw, I just checked, ODST actually has higher FoV than Reach, even though the BMS is 20% slower. Maybe that’s why I personally never perceived it as being significantly different from Halo 3, which has higher BMS but lower FoV than both of them.
>
> Yep, it goes to show how big a difference the FoV really makes. I’m fairly sure that if Halo 3 had had 90 degrees, people wouldn’t criticize it for its apparent slowness.
I think 2 player split screen in Halo 3 actually gave players a 90 degrees FoV, or atleast a bigger FoV.
As I remember someone complaining that split screen players had an advantage due to them seeing wider, allowing them to see things which would otherwise be out if view. Then posting comparison screenshots from The Pit.
> 2533274795123910;15289:
> > 2533274825830455;15288:
> > > 2533274801176260;15286:
> > > EDIT: Btw, I just checked, ODST actually has higher FoV than Reach, even though the BMS is 20% slower. Maybe that’s why I personally never perceived it as being significantly different from Halo 3, which has higher BMS but lower FoV than both of them.
> >
> > Yep, it goes to show how big a difference the FoV really makes. I’m fairly sure that if Halo 3 had had 90 degrees, people wouldn’t criticize it for its apparent slowness.
>
> I think 2 player split screen in Halo 3 actually gave players a 90 degrees FoV, or atleast a bigger FoV.
> As I remember someone complaining that split screen players had an advantage due to them seeing wider, allowing them to see things which would otherwise be out if view. Then posting comparison screenshots from The Pit.
Going from the link, Yeah splitscreen Halo 3 ended up with a 90+ FoV and ODST ended up with like 100
> 2533274795123910;15289:
> > 2533274825830455;15288:
> > > 2533274801176260;15286:
> > > EDIT: Btw, I just checked, ODST actually has higher FoV than Reach, even though the BMS is 20% slower. Maybe that’s why I personally never perceived it as being significantly different from Halo 3, which has higher BMS but lower FoV than both of them.
> >
> > Yep, it goes to show how big a difference the FoV really makes. I’m fairly sure that if Halo 3 had had 90 degrees, people wouldn’t criticize it for its apparent slowness.
>
> I think 2 player split screen in Halo 3 actually gave players a 90 degrees FoV, or atleast a bigger FoV.
> As I remember someone complaining that split screen players had an advantage due to them seeing wider, allowing them to see things which would otherwise be out if view. Then posting comparison screenshots from The Pit.
The split-screen FoVs are generally larger. CE, Reach, and ODST have all over 100 degrees in split-screen, which only makes sense due to the different aspect ratio. But I’m fairly sure it actually doesn’t have a significant impact on the perception of speed, because that’s all about the amount of distortion of the image, which doesn’t turn out to be any more than in single-player mode, because the aspect ratio accomodates the larger field of view without distortion.
> 2533274825830455;15288:
> > 2533274801176260;15286:
> > Is it all in the movement speed? Because that’s pretty much the only other mechanic that differes between ODST and Reach, if you discount the “fluff” like AAs.
>
> To be honest, it probably mostly is in the movement. Though I have to emphasize, that the appearance of the health system (however similar it actually might be), and the expectation of how different a game that’s just a slightly modified Halo 3 can actually be. It’s important to keep in mind that we’re discussing which game feels more like a spinoff in terms of gameplay, not which game actually has more changes made to it. It’s a subtle difference, and you can of course think that the latter determines the former, but it doesn’t need to be so. The more I think about it, my opinion likely stems from the fact that I judge both games relative to what they could’ve realistically been, not relative to Halo 3.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274801176260;15286:
> > EDIT: Btw, I just checked, ODST actually has higher FoV than Reach, even though the BMS is 20% slower. Maybe that’s why I personally never perceived it as being significantly different from Halo 3, which has higher BMS but lower FoV than both of them.
>
> Yep, it goes to show how big a difference the FoV really makes. I’m fairly sure that if Halo 3 had had 90 degrees, people wouldn’t criticize it for its apparent slowness.
FoV is an extra underrated part of games imo. I recently replayed boerlands 1 on PC, and when I increased the fov, the game “felt” faster paced, it “felt” like I was moving way faster than beforehand, but I was not. I cold post a video comparison, and write a thread about it if anyone’s is actually interested.
> 2533274833081329;15123:
> > 2533274844313982;15122:
> > For the next Halo game, I think there should be sprint. BUT, I want sprint to be like it was from Halo Reach. Also, speed boost is completely unnecessary for this game. I know other games are using this method, but no one wants to play two games that act the same! Bring back the classic feel that we all know and love about Halo. I’m giving faith a future Halo game.
>
> If we’re bringing back the classic feel, then why are we keeping Sprint yet removing Speed boost? Wouldn’t it be the other way around?
Speed boost as in the stupid thruster sprint crap that they’ve added to Halo 5. REMOVE THAT. Therefor, no, not going into reverse. (face palms) I don’t care if sprint is in the next game or not. And classic feel I mean as in Halo: Reach. Tell me that wasn’t successful. PLEASE. Also, tell me that game isn’t turning old either. Literally 2 more years until that game is considered a 10 year old game. Halo 2 was automatically put into a classic when Reach came out and all these other next gen games.
In the last two Crysis games, the player had the ability to increase their protective shielding at the cost of speed and mobility. What if sprint in Halo was disabled by default, but players had the option to manually disengage their shields for a short period of time, rendering themselves vulnerable, in exchange for the ability to sprint? (In a similar vein to a feature in Halo 5 where downed shields won’t begin to recharge if one is sprinting.) This could in theory slow down multiplayer, limiting the use of sprint to pure map traversal and high-risk/high-reward combat maneuvers.
> 2533274844313982;15293:
> > 2533274833081329;15123:
> > > 2533274844313982;15122:
> > > For the next Halo game, I think there should be sprint. BUT, I want sprint to be like it was from Halo Reach. Also, speed boost is completely unnecessary for this game. I know other games are using this method, but no one wants to play two games that act the same! Bring back the classic feel that we all know and love about Halo. I’m giving faith a future Halo game.
> >
> > If we’re bringing back the classic feel, then why are we keeping Sprint yet removing Speed boost? Wouldn’t it be the other way around?
>
> Speed boost as in the stupid thruster sprint crap that they’ve added to Halo 5. REMOVE THAT. Therefor, no, not going into reverse. (face palms) I don’t care if sprint is in the next game or not. And classic feel I mean as in Halo: Reach. Tell me that wasn’t successful. PLEASE. Also, tell me that game isn’t turning old either. Literally 2 more years until that game is considered a 10 year old game. Halo 2 was automatically put into a classic when Reach came out and all these other next gen games.
You’re going to have to explain the bold more.
There is thrusters, as in the short boost in any direction with a cooldown, there is sprint, the movement that makes you run faster in a straight line, and there is speed boost, the power up that’s in the same family as Camo and Overshield.
“Sprint like Halo Reach” is just Halo 4’s Sprint except with a visible cooldown bar and not everyone has it because of the other Armor Ability.
Halo Reach was successful, just not as successful as Halo 3, the game before it. It also owes a portion of its success to the update that changed Armor Abilities and included NSNB playlists, with no sprint.
> 2533274889662223;15294:
> What if sprint in Halo was disabled by default, but players had the option to manually disengage their shields for a short period of time, rendering themselves vulnerable, in exchange for the ability to sprint? (In a similar vein to a feature in Halo 5 where downed shields won’t begin to recharge if one is sprinting.)
Interesting idea although I think doing that would just annoy me more because it’s telling me that 343 is willing to nerf sprint into oblivion so they can desperately keep it even though they know it’s bad for the game instead of just doing the right thing and getting rid of it. I think I would also have to see how it plays since it sounds alright, but it might not translate well with the gameplay.
That video did not prove maps are not elongated from previous version featured in games without sprint.
We did not see the other player and what he/she did. Meaning there could have been no sprinting.
It looked to me like you got a speed bump from the geometry while going downhill.
It seemed to me like the other player went in the outer arc, slightly slightly increasing the distance. Negligable I’d say, but still.
I’m sure someone will be along to post the video of timed comparisons on Truth vs Midship, which is more thoroughly done.
Take away sprint increase overall movement speed !!! Keep thrust and gp remove spartan charge make maps that actually use clamber well ( to actually make the most of this feature and not make it feel like an afterthought) then see how that is received in h6 then adjust accordingly for h7
i rather like the new features. i think its good to expand and learn new things. people compare to older games. but its not that game. if you want it the same as the old game play the old game.
> 2535462476484482;15301:
> i rather like the new features. i think its good to expand and learn new things. people compare to older games. but its not that game. if you want it the same as the old game play the old game.
No one is upset about “learning new things”. Even the old games have new things. Halo 5 doesn’t have things that older Halo games do have.
The problem is that people believe the new things are inferior to the old things.
Telling people to just stay on the old games is not much different than telling people who like the current style to “stick to Halo 4 and Halo 5 while the rest of us move on.” It’s dismissive and misses the point of the argument entirely.
> 2533274795123910;15298:
> > 2533274816735326;15297:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bclcy2NvhA
> > proof that sprint does not elongate map design
>
> That video did not prove maps are not elongated from previous version featured in games without sprint.
>
> We did not see the other player and what he/she did. Meaning there could have been no sprinting.
> It looked to me like you got a speed bump from the geometry while going downhill.
> It seemed to me like the other player went in the outer arc, slightly slightly increasing the distance. Negligable I’d say, but still.
>
> I’m sure someone will be along to post the video of timed comparisons on Truth vs Midship, which is more thoroughly done.
he was clearly sprinting the entire time.
point a to point b is what matters. he sprinted and i didn’t. doesn’t matter what exact path was taken
> 2533274816735326;15303:
> > 2533274795123910;15298:
> > > 2533274816735326;15297:
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bclcy2NvhA
> > > proof that sprint does not elongate map design
> >
> > That video did not prove maps are not elongated from previous version featured in games without sprint.
> >
> > We did not see the other player and what he/she did. Meaning there could have been no sprinting.
> > It looked to me like you got a speed bump from the geometry while going downhill.
> > It seemed to me like the other player went in the outer arc, slightly slightly increasing the distance. Negligable I’d say, but still.
> >
> > I’m sure someone will be along to post the video of timed comparisons on Truth vs Midship, which is more thoroughly done.
>
> he was clearly sprinting the entire time.
> point a to point b is what matters. he sprinted and i didn’t. doesn’t matter what exact path was taken
Should I be nitpicky and point out the part where he started moving well after you started jumping at 0:06, therefore the guy Sprinting caught up to you to end at the same point? He also traveled a longer path than you, he ran an outside curve while you jumped an inside curve. So despite two disadvantages, the guy Sprinting landed in the “same spot at the same time” as you.
> doesn’t matter what exact path was taken
Everything matters on the path that was taken! The simple distance that you two covered was different. Notice how you only stopped when you had no more ledges to jump on and the race was “over”? What if the race was to the other side of the room? Or on any other map in the game?
If it doesn’t matter what path was taken, then why wasn’t he allowed to jump on the ledges you did? Why didn’t you run the other direction around the map then?
You should probably answer all those posts on Reddit that you’re conveniently ignoring.
> 2533274816735326;15303:
> > 2533274795123910;15298:
> > > 2533274816735326;15297:
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bclcy2NvhA
> > > proof that sprint does not elongate map design
> >
> > That video did not prove maps are not elongated from previous version featured in games without sprint.
> >
> > We did not see the other player and what he/she did. Meaning there could have been no sprinting.
> > It looked to me like you got a speed bump from the geometry while going downhill.
> > It seemed to me like the other player went in the outer arc, slightly slightly increasing the distance. Negligable I’d say, but still.
> >
> > I’m sure someone will be along to post the video of timed comparisons on Truth vs Midship, which is more thoroughly done.
>
> he was clearly sprinting the entire time.
> point a to point b is what matters. he sprinted and i didn’t. doesn’t matter what exact path was taken
Okay, let’s take a closer look then.
I did notice the thruster sound so sure, he was sprinting.
Now, let’s look at some other stuff.
First issue, you started moving at least a second before him, there’s no sound of feet hitting the floor.
Second, You did not travel the same path, you jumped over low walls, and as I said earlier, looked like you also got a geometry boost, he travelled a longer arc an had to run farther than you.
Third, looking at the radar, he still gained on you.
Now let’s take a look at your statement:
Point a to Point b is what matters, you know the time it takes to travel that is decided by the distance and your speed?
How can you claim maps aren’t elognated when you don’t compare it to anything?
Also, yes, it matters which paths were taken. Unless you both didn’t take the same paths, or didn’t travel the same distance with the same obstacles, you don’t have an apt comparison. You took a shorter arc, he took a longer one. A circle with a smaller radius have a shorter circumference than circle with a larger radius. Going with the same speed on both nets you more revolutions in the same time on the smaller circle than on the larger one.
Also, even if by some miracle your experiment was correct and showed no difference between not sprinting and sprinting. The only thing you showed was that sprint has no actual functionality for getting anywhere and just supplied us with another reason to ditch it.