Here’s an idea tho I admit probably not a good one. For HALO 6, what if they made 2 types of multiplayer modes. One being with whatever in new in halo 6 and then a “classic” style mode that would be based off halo CE, 2, and 3? That would satisfy I would think most people. Would also somewhat solve the sprint issue. Those who want sprint can use it and those who hate it can play the classic mode where sprint wouldn’t exist. Again not a great idea. But they already do throwback modes in the playlist once in a whlie. Essentially you just making a few permanent throw back modes in a way with a modern touch.
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> 2533274825830455;15145:
> > 2535443291173526;15141:
> > Before giving me a long drawn out description that I haven’t justified my reasons on here plz go back and read my other posts above. I have justified them. The post u quoted was in response to someone elses.
>
> I know you did, and I really appreciate that you did so. That was just a short remark I wanted to get out there, regardless.
Fair enough. And thank yoi for seeing my other posts. My apologies for assiming u didn’t. Not trying to ruffle any feathers. But I’ve seen some monitors disregard previous posts and then throw spoilers up which is abusing power IMO. U didn’t so thx for that… And for the feedback.
I’m pretty sure 343 has already done that idea Sir. It’s called backwards compatibility with XboxOne and the option to create your own server. If Halo 6 reverts back to 90’s style game play of crouch jumping across a map, it’ll fail straight up. Halo 5 is still limited in movement compared to other games. Heck, Splinter Cell had more mobility than Halo 5 and that game came out ages ago. Sam Fisher is more badass than any Spartan in my opinion. Halo 5 is finally a game where a player finally feels like they are the amazing athletic super solider of the future.
> 2535441152633368;15148:
> I’m pretty sure 343 has already done that idea Sir. It’s called backwards compatibility with XboxOne and the option to create your own server. If Halo 6 reverts back to 90’s style game play of crouch jumping across a map, it’ll fail straight up. Halo 5 is still limited in movement compared to other games. Heck, Splinter Cell had more mobility than Halo 5 and that game came out ages ago. Sam Fisher is more badass than any Spartan in my opinion. Halo 5 is finally a game where a player finally feels like they are the amazing athletic super solider of the future.
Here’s a question.
If there are plenty of movement options, what kind of exciting maps can you make with it if you’re able to traverse them as there was nothing on them, essentially Octagon maps with some cover?
Now if we start limiting how you can traverse the maps with obstacles, like walls, roofs, bottomless pits which can’t be jumped over, what good does these new “super mechanics” do you?
Heck, what good does sprint do for movement? Faster speed? Well just increase the BMS then if speed was ever an issue.
> 2535441152633368;15148:
> I’m pretty sure 343 has already done that idea Sir. It’s called backwards compatibility with XboxOne and the option to create your own server. If Halo 6 reverts back to 90’s style game play of crouch jumping across a map, it’ll fail straight up. Halo 5 is still limited in movement compared to other games. Heck, Splinter Cell had more mobility than Halo 5 and that game came out ages ago. Sam Fisher is more badass than any Spartan in my opinion. Halo 5 is finally a game where a player finally feels like they are the amazing athletic super solider of the future.
No, I completey agree which is why I don’t tend to play throwback games since I own all the games except Spartan Strike since it’s not on console. If I wanted throwback I would just play one of the older games or even the MMC. I’m not saying to literally do a throwback. Use the same maps in mp halo 6 but give the option to do those maps without certain abilities giving it a more classic feeling. And expand it to warzone, etc and not just to a slayer match. That make sense? U would have like Halo 6 campaign, halo 6 MP, then halo 6 mp classic style. Once again its an idea tho not nessecarily a great idea.
> 2535441152633368;15148:
> I’m pretty sure 343 has already done that idea Sir. It’s called backwards compatibility with XboxOne and the option to create your own server. If Halo 6 reverts back to 90’s style game play of crouch jumping across a map, it’ll fail straight up. Halo 5 is still limited in movement compared to other games. Heck, Splinter Cell had more mobility than Halo 5 and that game came out ages ago. Sam Fisher is more badass than any Spartan in my opinion.
343i doesn’t handle backwards compatibility. Microsoft has a separate team for that.
How do you know for a fact that it’ll fail? You provided no sources for that.
Halo 5 is limited in movement compared to other Halo games.
> 2535441152633368;15148:
> Halo 5 is finally a game where a player finally feels like they are the amazing athletic super solider of the future.
Nice athletic super soldier that can’t run and shoot at the same time.
> 2535443291173526;15146:
> Here’s an idea tho I admit probably not a good one. For HALO 6, what if they made 2 types of multiplayer modes. One being with whatever in new in halo 6 and then a “classic” style mode that would be based off halo CE, 2, and 3? That would satisfy I would think most people. Would also somewhat solve the sprint issue. Those who want sprint can use it and those who hate it can play the classic mode where sprint wouldn’t exist. Again not a great idea. But they already do throwback modes in the playlist once in a whlie. Essentially you just making a few permanent throw back modes in a way with a modern touch.
That wouldn’t work, at least not as well as you expect it to be.
It’ll sound a bit hostile if I say “It’s one way or the other!” But for the most part, it is.
The game obviously has to lean towards one side, or else you’re making essentially two different games. Or worse, half of a game twice.
The movement and weapons for Halo 5 would never fit in a game played like CE-3 and vice versa. Same with the maps. So you’d essentially have to create two weapon sandboxes and two sets of maps, which is twice the resources, or the more likely option, half the maps.
> 2533274833081329;15152:
> > 2535443291173526;15146:
> > Here’s an idea tho I admit probably not a good one. For HALO 6, what if they made 2 types of multiplayer modes. One being with whatever in new in halo 6 and then a “classic” style mode that would be based off halo CE, 2, and 3? That would satisfy I would think most people. Would also somewhat solve the sprint issue. Those who want sprint can use it and those who hate it can play the classic mode where sprint wouldn’t exist. Again not a great idea. But they already do throwback modes in the playlist once in a whlie. Essentially you just making a few permanent throw back modes in a way with a modern touch.
>
> That wouldn’t work, at least not as well as you expect it to be.
>
> It’ll sound a bit hostile if I say “It’s one way or the other!” But for the most part, it is.
>
> The game obviously has to lean towards one side, or else you’re making essentially two different games. Or worse, half of a game twice.
>
> The movement and weapons for Halo 5 would never fit in a game played like CE-3 and vice versa. Same with the maps. So you’d essentially have to create two weapon sandboxes and two sets of maps, which is twice the resources, or the more likely option, half the maps.
No u weren’t hostile about it. And ya didn’t think of the resources for doing that. Was just a random idea that came to mind. Not well thought out.
Vegeto30294 I could counter your comment with the exact same… How do you know it’ll succeed, do you have any content or data to prove me otherwise.
How is Halo 5 limited to other halo games, and
Why would you run and shoot at the same time ? Your accuracy would be atrocious !
I don’t care which team handles the backwards… it’s still there and supported by the man himself… Microsoft and I think that’s pretty cool. Thank you (whatever team is responsible)
I love older Halo’s for their story, but I struggle to want to load em up and play because of the movements are so slow and limited I’d rather buy & play the original Splinter Cell but it’s not Halo so I don’t. I love Halo:CE I even have a copy on my MacBook Pro(you know the original, original home of Halo) and it was cool when it came out and it’s still a classic. But even then having to crouch jump across a map and hope your crouch jump would land you on a ledge… ugh… so frustrating. One of my frustrations with Halo 5 is that these maps are super cool and you have much more freedom to be able to explore all the cool nooks and corners… but then all these dam invisible blockers and kill barriers are everywhere !!
Maybe I can’t prove it’ll succeed or fail with or without the athletic movements removed. So I’ll keep it to just what I know. If Halo 6 has the athletic abilities removed and put back to a “classic” movement, I won’t buy it. That’s not me trashing anyone or anything, thats just my preference. I want to buy a game that shows progression.
Vegeto30294 I think Halo 5’s movements would actually still work in Halo:CE. Those maps were pretty big and had some really cool features that I don’t think we’re ever properly used because of the limited movements. Remember, Halo:CE production was rushed due to Microsoft buying the game for launch for the original Xbox and was originally being designed to run on Apple. That’s why we have the clunky but hey it kinda works… running one way through the map… just to turn back around and run back through it again.
Just for fun and not even being released, I’d love to see what would happen if you had Halo 5 movements in Halo:CE without it being a remake.
> 2535441152633368;15154:
> Vegeto30294 I could counter your comment with the exact same… How do you know it’ll succeed, do you have any content or data to prove me otherwise.
> How is Halo 5 limited to other halo games, and
> Why would you run and shoot at the same time ? Your accuracy would be atrocious !
>
> I don’t care which team handles the backwards… it’s still there and supported by the man himself… Microsoft and I think that’s pretty cool. Thank you (whatever team is responsible)
>
> I love older Halo’s for their story, but I struggle to want to load em up and play because of the movements are so slow and limited I’d rather buy & play the original Splinter Cell but it’s not Halo so I don’t. I love Halo:CE I even have a copy on my MacBook Pro(you know the original, original home of Halo) and it was cool when it came out and it’s still a classic. But even then having to crouch jump across a map and hope your crouch jump would land you on a ledge… ugh… so frustrating. One of my frustrations with Halo 5 is that these maps are super cool and you have much more freedom to be able to explore all the cool nooks and corners… but then all these dam invisible blockers and kill barriers are everywhere !!
>
> Maybe I can’t prove it’ll succeed or fail with or without the athletic movements removed. So I’ll keep it to just what I know. If Halo 6 has the athletic abilities removed and put back to a “classic” movement, I won’t buy it. That’s not me trashing anyone or anything, thats just my preference. I want to buy a game that shows progression.
Because I’m not fighting for no sprint in terms of population. I want no sprint because it would be a fundamentally more balanced game and that alone would solve half the problems with Halo 5’s gameplay. The population would follow from just being a good game, not because it includes or excludes one mechanic that a bunch of people don’t know what it really does in the first place.
How is Halo 5 limited? Sprint only works in one direction, and your speed only increases in one direction: forwards. Bullets and explosions are still gonna be really large and really accurate, because they have to hit Sprinting opponents and are therefore too effective against not Sprinting opponents. At the end of the day, Sprint is a limitation.
You’re limited in your ability to shoot. You’re limited in your ability to move your maximum speed. That means to move your maximum speed, you have to commit to moving in one direction and ignoring your surroundings. On top of the fact you can’t shoot anyway so you have to ignore your surroundings anyway.
Let’s say there’s a gap or a hole in the floor. It’s pretty big, but you can make it by Sprint-Jumping. It’s an action you have to commit to. You can’t make that jump backwards, you can’t make it sideways, you can’t make it walking forwards. If you’re in a fight, you can’t Sprint. That gap is essentially a dead end because you can’t focus on crossing the gap and fighting your opponent, which means you’re limited in how you traverse the map.
Back before Sprint, you can run, jump, shoot, and traverse the map all at the same time with no downtime in between them. Your maximum speed in the same in all directions, you can hop across any gap as normal while fighting your opponent. You’re only limited by your knowledge of the map. That’s what lead to people taking the most insane routes on a map and crouch jumping without even looking at the gap in question, because your orientation only affected your shooting, not your movement.
“Why would you run and shoot at the same time ? Your accuracy would be atrocious !”
Because we’re amazing athletic super soliders of the future. We were basically always “running” in the previous Halo games.
“I love older Halo’s for their story, but I struggle to want to load em up and play because of the movements are so slow and limited”
Removing Sprint doesn’t mean keep it at Halo CE-3 speeds, you can always change that, it’s as simple as a Custom Game setting.
There is more than one way to go really fast without having to lose the ability to shoot while doing so. You don’t need Sprint to accomplish this. The Speed Boost power up exists, which contradicts the idea of Sprint entirely. Also, why do we need to push yourself to go faster when we could just…be faster? [Look at how fast DOOM plays without Sprint.
](Exclusive DOOM 1080p 60FPS Gameplay with Vulkan API on GeForce GTX - YouTube)"One of my frustrations with Halo 5 is that these maps are super cool and you have much more freedom to be able to explore all the cool nooks and corners… but then all these dam invisible blockers and kill barriers are everywhere !! "
Because the map designers don’t want you to go to those areas for various reasons, some including glitches or ending up out of the map. Walls were made tall enough so you simply couldn’t jump up to them. Now since your verticality is increased greatly due to clamber, the have to make walls even taller so you couldn’t grab them, or put deterrence on them.
> 2535443291173526;15144:
> > Vegeto30294The only two abilities tied to Sprint is sliding and Spartan Charge, sliding being used as an animation to crouch, and charge exists because Sprint was too powerful with standard melees, and needed a limitation. Turn off Sprint in a custom game, and you can find you can still Thrust, Ground Pound, and Clamber.
> >
> > New things are always welcome, but those things have to be beneficial to the series in one way or another. It’s not like CE-3 are the exact same games.
>
> Ok. Then I was wrong about some of the abilities. And for that I apologize. But you don’t to necessarily remove it. Like u said u can turn it off in custom games. And I wasn’ saying sprint is new just new things you can so with with it.
It’s not a simple solution of just turning it off though, you see? Maps have already been designed around it. And even if we accounted for that by upping the base speed and/or jump heights and added it as a playlist in matchmaking, it still wouldn’t be good enough because the sandbox as a whole was designed with it in mind. It’d probably feel terrible too. And having parity across all modes of play is important for a game.
I’m not advocating sprint’s removal in Halo 5. That’d be a terrible idea. The game was already designed with it in mind. Hell, I’ll still buy Halo 6 even if it has sprint. It’s not a make or break it thing for me. But I do personally think the franchise would be better off without sprint. There are plenty other ways to allow players to traverse faster without affecting map design or the sandbox as much as sprint has. Granted, it’s not just sprint itself.
In regards to your comment earlier about developers needing to provide new experiences, this is true. I don’t think anyone here is saying make a carbon copy of CE, 2, 3, etc. What we are saying is find ways that don’t include changing the foundation of Halo’s movement and combat. Weapons, grenades, melee. Outside of vehicles, nothing should restrict me from utilizing the golden triangle. Sprint does that, ground pound does that, Spartan Charge, you get the point. Innovate around that foundation. Through the sandbox, the level design, new gametypes and modes. Give us new community features a la Forge and the Custom Games Browser. We want new things too. But we don’t want to have, what we consider, the genetic make-up of Halo to be altered.
Vegeto30294 Thanks for elaborating more clearly your opinion. I wish I had the same ability to write out my thoughts and theories as you. All I’m able to do though is strongly disagree with your points but leave it at that. I hear where you are coming from and I wish I had the mental capacity to form my thoughts more coherently to paper(as it be).
•point form.
•I find the gameplay to be fair as far as movements go. (the matchmaking system that’s different)
•You only run in one direction anyways, try running full speed backwards with accuracy in footwork. (also no amount of augmentation is going to allow the actual mechanics of your legs attached to a power suit or not run and jump at full speed backwards or left or right. The joints just aren’t built for that movement)
•The current way of game play isn’t much different than old. If anything this style requires you to think about your movements more. Risk vs Reward rather than button smash. •There’s not many places you actually need to sprint jump to get to, and many places you can still access with the classic crouch jump. (I’ve made a map where clamber doesn’t work on every edge but a quick crouch jump gets you to where you need to be, skill vs mechanic ability)
•I agree the Spartan’s are amazing athletes but I’m sure even at their speeds they still need to take a second and aim. Look at a Biathlete. Amazing sharp shooters and their heart rate is jacked from the sport. They can shoot with amazing accuracy both in the prone position and standing but there is a reason why even they stop to shoot. Also (and I’m not a tactical expert) But I’ve never seen footage of (elite) military or police forces learning to shoot with insane accuracy while at a full run. It’s more to move to a more tactical position or escape.
•I get map designers want to limit where you can and can’t go. But that’s the fun part of being a gamer, finding the clever little spots. (Look at Halo 2, NewMombasa I think for example)
If you’re aware of your position in the map then you shouldn’t need to rely on extra features like sprint or clamber. The movements from Halo past will have given you the ability to make sure you are always in a position of power, cover and mobility. Doesn’t mean that a player of lesser ability or skill like myself doesn’t need a little help to make the game more fair… Or fun(immersive).
Thanks again for your thoughts. I really appreciated how you delivered them with respect.
Cheers.
> 2535441152633368;15154:
> Why would you run and shoot at the same time ? Your accuracy would be atrocious !
Why would you code it so that your accuracy is atrocious if it isn’t meant to be atrocious at full speed?
> 2535441152633368;15154:
> One of my frustrations with Halo 5 is that these maps are super cool and you have much more freedom to be able to explore all the cool nooks and corners… but then all these dam invisible blockers and kill barriers are everywhere !!
And you’re completely forgetting that we’re not thrown into a natural landscape, but a handcrafted landscape.
Your clamber will not take you over a wall the designer does not want you to get over, because that wall will have a ledge to prevent you from clambering on it, or it’ll be high enough for you to not be able to clamber it.
Your fancy movement mechanics mean little for exploration and what not if the designer does not want you to do it.
> 2535441152633368;15154:
> I want to buy a game that shows progression.
Keeping sprint with all the other mechanics is progression? Rather than stagnation?
How about going back to the originals, and then work on those instead of using resources on checklist mechanics?
“Progression???”, checklist mechanics? Yeeapp.
> 2535441152633368;15155:
> Remember, Halo:CE production was rushed due to Microsoft buying the game for launch for the original Xbox and was originally being designed to run on Apple. That’s why we have the clunky but hey it kinda works… running one way through the map… just to turn back around and run back through it again.
I’d like some source or reference to the “Halo CE rushed” claim.
> 2535441152633368;15158:
> •You only run in one direction anyways, try running full speed backwards with accuracy in footwork. (also no amount of augmentation is going to allow the actual mechanics of your legs attached to a power suit or not run and jump at full speed backwards or left or right. The joints just aren’t built for that movement)
>
> •The current way of game play isn’t much different than old. If anything this style requires you to think about your movements more. Risk vs Reward rather than button smash.
>
>
> •There’s not many places you actually need to sprint jump to get to, and many places you can still access with the classic crouch jump. (I’ve made a map where clamber doesn’t work on every edge but a quick crouch jump gets you to where you need to be, skill vs mechanic ability)
>
> •I agree the Spartan’s are amazing athletes but I’m sure even at their speeds they still need to take a second and aim. Look at a Biathlete. Amazing sharp shooters and their heart rate is jacked from the sport. They can shoot with amazing accuracy both in the prone position and standing but there is a reason why even they stop to shoot. Also (and I’m not a tactical expert) But I’ve never seen footage of (elite) military or police forces learning to shoot with insane accuracy while at a full run. It’s more to move to a more tactical position or escape.
>
> •I get map designers want to limit where you can and can’t go. But that’s the fun part of being a gamer, finding the clever little spots. (Look at Halo 2, NewMombasa I think for example)
>
> ( 6 ) If you’re aware of your position in the map then you shouldn’t need to rely on extra features like sprint or clamber. The movements from Halo past will have given you the ability to make sure you are always in a position of power, cover and mobility. Doesn’t mean that a player of lesser ability or skill like myself doesn’t need a little help to make the game more fair… Or fun(immersive).
1 and 4: Why would you program it that way? It’s not a simulator, and even then, how would you know? And lastly, if we’re going to bring in lore, i343 controls it and can just say that Spartans can do all that stuff.
2: I’d say shallower gameplay but more complex. There are differences in the game due to the new mechanics, aaand, risk vs reward has always been present, the only thing with sprint is that it’s now hard implemented into the controller as a mechanic, rather than clever map design. It’s you pressing a button to move faster, quite an easy thing to learn when and when not to do based on information fed to you through the game, at the expense of your combat abilities.
3: If a game is not designed to need the mechanics it has implemented into it, why implement them in the first place?
5: Not something exclusive to sprint or any of the other mechanics.
6: As with 3, and the additional; how is the game fair to the better player if it helps the lesser skilled one? Also, “immersion”, I made a post not long about that in this link.
Naqser. “I’d like some source or reference to the “Halo CE rushed” claim.”
Do you have proof otherwise. I’d like to see some references …
I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the whole reason why you went one way then turned around and back through the map was because of time restraints on development. Thats why you never saw weapons like the flamethrower (and I think another vehicle) in Xbox halo but they were there in Halo PC/Mac. I don’t have exact dates and content to show you because this is just content that I’ve consumed over the years while in discussion with Bungie die hard fans or content published by other parties documenting the history of Halo. I’m sure a quick internet search will come up with all sorts of info on the topic.
If my knowledge or understanding of events is wrong I’m happy to be corrected. Nothing worse than holding onto false knowledge. (But best post that info to another thread since it’s not part of the Sprint thread topic.)
> 2535441152633368;15161:
> Naqser. “I’d like some source or reference to the “Halo CE rushed” claim.”
>
> Do you have proof otherwise. I’d like to see some references …
>
> I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the whole reason why you went one way then turned around and back through the map was because of time restraints on development. Thats why you never saw weapons like the flamethrower (and I think another vehicle) in Xbox halo but they were there in Halo PC/Mac. I don’t have exact dates and content to show you because this is just content that I’ve consumed over the years while in discussion with Bungie die hard fans or content published by other parties documenting the history of Halo. I’m sure a quick internet search will come up with all sorts of info on the topic.
>
> If my knowledge or understanding of events is wrong I’m happy to be corrected. Nothing worse than holding onto false knowledge. (But best post that info to another thread since it’s not part of the Sprint thread topic.)
Burden of proof, my friend. You made a claim, Naqser asked you to verify it. It’s your social resposibility to back up your own claim.
> 2535441152633368;15158:
> •I agree the Spartan’s are amazing athletes but I’m sure even at their speeds they still need to take a second and aim.
No, they don’t.
FYI, in that video they actually run 25% faster than sprint speed in the games.
Sprinting wouldn’t have to restrict the opportunity to shoot, shooting while running in real life is completely viable. Guns-down sprinting is certainly restricting too much freedom.
Removing sprint would be stupid. Everything would be so slow, and no chances to escape from enemy fire. Maybe limited sprint with a “recharge” time is ok, but I can’t stand only walking.