The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > > > > > > > Ok, I won’t say anything more, if you guys want Halo to be as sh*tty as Halo 3 was, it’s ok, but please stop complaining about everything that 343 does with Halo.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So in other words, you do assume anyone who wants sprint removed only wants Halo 3.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I’m also free to express my opinions on matters, so I do may complain about anything i343 does with Halo that I do not like.
> > > > > > > > > > Feedback in an attempt to improve the game to my liking.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I assume that people don’t want Spartans to be as they should. Or they just don’t want 343 to do Halo games and want Bungie back so they can do a new Destiny with the Halo Universe.
> > > > > > > > > I’m pretty sure that in the future, people will complain even about the 10k graphics in every game and they will want 1080p back.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Last time I checked, Spartans were able to run and shoot at the same time.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So I guess they really aren’t “as they should” right now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It would be a pretty good addition to the gameplay :wink:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Which is pretty much saying to move really fast while being able to shoot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well all we have to do is remove Sprint while making everyone move faster so they can continue.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Look at that, you just found the reason why some people want to remove Sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > > I just think that the sprint is a pretty good mechanic, more in big maps like they are in Warzone or BTB.
> > > >
> > > > A lot of people think otherwise, believing they can offer ways to make you move as fast as Sprint without having to use “Sprint” specifically.
> > > >
> > > > Basically, remove Sprint, to add something better than Sprint.
> > >
> > > If they can found it, I would love to try it.
> > > Hopefully they don’t just increase the normal speed.
> >
> > What’s wrong with just increasing the normal speed? I’m not saying that’s the correct answer, but in terms of “moving fast”, it’s no different than Sprint.
> >
> > Basically, the big question here is: What can Sprint do that moving faster can’t?
>
> I think that it wouldn’t be the best solution… It might don’t work in some maps.

If you’re always moving as fast as Sprint, how would it not work?

That didn’t answer my question.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, I won’t say anything more, if you guys want Halo to be as sh*tty as Halo 3 was, it’s ok, but please stop complaining about everything that 343 does with Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So in other words, you do assume anyone who wants sprint removed only wants Halo 3.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I’m also free to express my opinions on matters, so I do may complain about anything i343 does with Halo that I do not like.
> > > > > > > > > > > Feedback in an attempt to improve the game to my liking.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I assume that people don’t want Spartans to be as they should. Or they just don’t want 343 to do Halo games and want Bungie back so they can do a new Destiny with the Halo Universe.
> > > > > > > > > > I’m pretty sure that in the future, people will complain even about the 10k graphics in every game and they will want 1080p back.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Last time I checked, Spartans were able to run and shoot at the same time.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So I guess they really aren’t “as they should” right now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It would be a pretty good addition to the gameplay :wink:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Which is pretty much saying to move really fast while being able to shoot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well all we have to do is remove Sprint while making everyone move faster so they can continue.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Look at that, you just found the reason why some people want to remove Sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just think that the sprint is a pretty good mechanic, more in big maps like they are in Warzone or BTB.
> > > > >
> > > > > A lot of people think otherwise, believing they can offer ways to make you move as fast as Sprint without having to use “Sprint” specifically.
> > > > >
> > > > > Basically, remove Sprint, to add something better than Sprint.
> > > >
> > > > If they can found it, I would love to try it.
> > > > Hopefully they don’t just increase the normal speed.
> > >
> > > What’s wrong with just increasing the normal speed? I’m not saying that’s the correct answer, but in terms of “moving fast”, it’s no different than Sprint.
> > >
> > > Basically, the big question here is: What can Sprint do that moving faster can’t?
> >
> > I think that it wouldn’t be the best solution… It might don’t work in some maps.
>
> If you’re always moving as fast as Sprint, how would it not work?
>
> That didn’t answer my question.

Cause with the sprint you can choose if you want to go through a room fast, at normal speed and even slow by crouching. And with that, you would need to be always at the same speed. I honestly wouldn’t like to be with a speed-boost all of the time.

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> > > > > If they quit the sprint in future Halo’s, the game will be slow and boring cause now we are used to play a fast Halo. 343 can’t go back when they have done so many stuff with Halo. Honestly I wouldn’t like to have a Halo 3 with Halo 5 graphics.
> > > >
> > > > I don’t think anyone is championing this. The game can be made to play fast with one base movement speed. FOV alterations and/or an increase in BSM can simulate a faster combat experience without the detriment of 2 separate movement speeds.
> > >
> > > The sprint is a very good mechanic of the game, it works perfectly well, if you are trying to escape or if you want to go to one place pretty fast. Even at the beginning of the games, so your team can spreed very fast in the map
> >
> > Out of curiosity. What Halo game did you start with? And what other shooter do you play?
>
> Halo:Reach and as soon as I finished that game, I played Halo:CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3, I played Halo 3:ODST when it was incorporated to TMCC.
> I play CoD, Gears of War, Rainbow Six, Fortnite, Battlefront and Battlefield. But most Halo and CoD.

How many hours of Halo CE and 2 have you played in ranked games?

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, I won’t say anything more, if you guys want Halo to be as sh*tty as Halo 3 was, it’s ok, but please stop complaining about everything that 343 does with Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So in other words, you do assume anyone who wants sprint removed only wants Halo 3.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I’m also free to express my opinions on matters, so I do may complain about anything i343 does with Halo that I do not like.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Feedback in an attempt to improve the game to my liking.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I assume that people don’t want Spartans to be as they should. Or they just don’t want 343 to do Halo games and want Bungie back so they can do a new Destiny with the Halo Universe.
> > > > > > > > > > > I’m pretty sure that in the future, people will complain even about the 10k graphics in every game and they will want 1080p back.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Last time I checked, Spartans were able to run and shoot at the same time.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So I guess they really aren’t “as they should” right now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It would be a pretty good addition to the gameplay :wink:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Which is pretty much saying to move really fast while being able to shoot.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Well all we have to do is remove Sprint while making everyone move faster so they can continue.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Look at that, you just found the reason why some people want to remove Sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I just think that the sprint is a pretty good mechanic, more in big maps like they are in Warzone or BTB.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A lot of people think otherwise, believing they can offer ways to make you move as fast as Sprint without having to use “Sprint” specifically.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Basically, remove Sprint, to add something better than Sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > > If they can found it, I would love to try it.
> > > > > Hopefully they don’t just increase the normal speed.
> > > >
> > > > What’s wrong with just increasing the normal speed? I’m not saying that’s the correct answer, but in terms of “moving fast”, it’s no different than Sprint.
> > > >
> > > > Basically, the big question here is: What can Sprint do that moving faster can’t?
> > >
> > > I think that it wouldn’t be the best solution… It might don’t work in some maps.
> >
> > If you’re always moving as fast as Sprint, how would it not work?
> >
> > That didn’t answer my question.
>
> Cause with the sprint you can choose if you want to go through a room fast, at normal speed and even slow by crouching. And with that, you would need to be always at the same speed. I honestly wouldn’t like to be with a speed-boost all of the time.

That amount of choice only happens because you were removed options as the player.

If you want to get through a room fast, you have to lose the ability to shoot. If you want to be able to shoot, you can’t move as fast. In previous games, you were allowed to move your maximum speed and shoot at the same time, increasing versatility.

Crouching was always an option. Sprint didn’t suddenly add that.

The reason you’re calling it a speed boost is because it’s faster than your perspective.

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> > > > > > If they quit the sprint in future Halo’s, the game will be slow and boring cause now we are used to play a fast Halo. 343 can’t go back when they have done so many stuff with Halo. Honestly I wouldn’t like to have a Halo 3 with Halo 5 graphics.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don’t think anyone is championing this. The game can be made to play fast with one base movement speed. FOV alterations and/or an increase in BSM can simulate a faster combat experience without the detriment of 2 separate movement speeds.
> > > >
> > > > The sprint is a very good mechanic of the game, it works perfectly well, if you are trying to escape or if you want to go to one place pretty fast. Even at the beginning of the games, so your team can spreed very fast in the map
> > >
> > > Out of curiosity. What Halo game did you start with? And what other shooter do you play?
> >
> > Halo:Reach and as soon as I finished that game, I played Halo:CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3, I played Halo 3:ODST when it was incorporated to TMCC.
> > I play CoD, Gears of War, Rainbow Six, Fortnite, Battlefront and Battlefield. But most Halo and CoD.
>
> How many hours of Halo CE and 2 have you played in ranked games?

I played Halo CE: Anniversary, that game only had a DLC for Halo: Reach so I didn’t play ranked and I just played the campaign of H"

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> > > > > > > If they quit the sprint in future Halo’s, the game will be slow and boring cause now we are used to play a fast Halo. 343 can’t go back when they have done so many stuff with Halo. Honestly I wouldn’t like to have a Halo 3 with Halo 5 graphics.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don’t think anyone is championing this. The game can be made to play fast with one base movement speed. FOV alterations and/or an increase in BSM can simulate a faster combat experience without the detriment of 2 separate movement speeds.
> > > > >
> > > > > The sprint is a very good mechanic of the game, it works perfectly well, if you are trying to escape or if you want to go to one place pretty fast. Even at the beginning of the games, so your team can spreed very fast in the map
> > > >
> > > > Out of curiosity. What Halo game did you start with? And what other shooter do you play?
> > >
> > > Halo:Reach and as soon as I finished that game, I played Halo:CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3, I played Halo 3:ODST when it was incorporated to TMCC.
> > > I play CoD, Gears of War, Rainbow Six, Fortnite, Battlefront and Battlefield. But most Halo and CoD.
> >
> > How many hours of Halo CE and 2 have you played in ranked games?
>
> I played Halo CE: Anniversary, that game only had a DLC for Halo: Reach so I didn’t play ranked and I just played the campaign of H"

OK see there is nothing wrong with this. But guys who started after 3 just do not understand what made CE and 2 and to some extent 3 so loved. They didn’t need sprint, spartan charge or abilities. Yet they were loved much more. There were big skill gaps. Unlike Halo 4,5 and Reach where less skilled players could kill higher skilled players. In the original Halo games this did not fly. Dude “Halo” game play is freaking magical with highly skilled players. Where when you 4 shot someone with a halo 2 BR or 3 shot someone with a halo CE pistol. Dude its SOO much more satisfying than the games we play today. The maps were light years better and matched the game play. If you did not play Halo at its prime you simply don’t understand.

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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > If the future Halos remove sprint but keep the multiplayer enjoyable like 4, I will be fine with that too.
> > >
> > > Halo 4 had the worst performing MP out of all the Halo games, and sprint wasn’t the worst thing about the title either.
> > >
> > > Halo Reach, H4, and H5 have all embraced a larger element of randomness and personal empowerment over a highly controllable arena and teamwork. That’s what makes the games more fun for lower skill/new players. It’s also what killed those games for the highly skilled, highly organised players. It’s also why you see players losing it when full teams and clans steam roll people on arena and warzone.
> > >
> > > You say you are 21 and didn’t get xbl until 2016, so is it reasonable to assume you haven’t experienced Halo 2 and Halo 3 online during their haydays?, where the Matchmaking system did a very admirable job of dividing different skilled players based on their skill. It created even and fun matches. So rather than evening out the skill levels through MM, today’s games even out the skill levels through game mechanics. Today’s MM systems do not do anywhere near good enough to divide people based on skill. That’s why you see 50’s and platinums up against 10s and bronze. The only way to experience that sort of onesided-ness before would be to exploit the system.
> >
> > I have the opposite opinion about Halo 4. I have the most fun in Halo 4, and sprint isn’t the BEST thing added.
> >
> > I actually despise Warzone in Halo 5 because of clans steamrolling randoms. My problem with older Halos is grenade jumping, crouch jumping, and button combos(aka, cheating). I never have used button combos and refuse to use BXR in Halo 2 because it is cheating. Halo 4 and Reach added abilities like jet packs. Halo 5 added clamber(which I approve of). These changes remove experienced players getting into camping spots that I can’t get to.
> >
> > I dont mind some randomness to account for low population but why is the population low? I think we already discussed this earlier in this forum, but why is there no multiplayer games with the same population as Halo 3 did in 2007? Is sprint really the reason? Do most players prefer ultra competitive games?
> > Maybe there is too many class based shooters like COD, Battlefield, and Halo 4/Reach. Though I think Halo 4 is a very unique game. I can’t find a game like Halo 4 anywhere else.
>
> How are button combos cheating ? They are available for everyone in the game to use. It just takes time to learn them because they aren’t easy to do. Cheating is modding your Xbox to make your gun have unlimited ammo and endless clip. You want clamber because it lets you get to jumps easier ? Well that’s a skill in itself learning jumps with grenades and crouching. You say you can’t get to the camping spots in older halos, but how much have you really tried ?

Do do you believe cheat codes are cheating? Anybody can look up cheat codes. Did Bungie intend for people to use button combos?

I have litteraly spent half an hour, trying to pick up a scull in Halo 3. I read online that I needed to grenade jump. So I spent all that time trying to grenade jump without killing myself . Frag grenades bounce too much and plasma grenades have little AOE. I have attempted to crouch jump a few times. I didn’t even know about crouch jumping until I noticed Halo 2 players in places that they shouldn’t have gotten.

It’s a different argument if more skill based game is good or bad. I prefer reduction in skill gap. I want to enjoy Halo but hate being destroyed by 50’s from Halo 2 and 3.

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> > > > If they quit the sprint in future Halo’s, the game will be slow and boring cause now we are used to play a fast Halo. 343 can’t go back when they have done so many stuff with Halo. Honestly I wouldn’t like to have a Halo 3 with Halo 5 graphics.
> > >
> > > Is the only difference between Halo 3 and Halo 5 sprint?
> > > Halo can’t be fast without sprint?
> > > What makes Halo with sprint fast as it’s an ability used outside of combat, one of the main things done in Halo?
> >
> > Dude, people wants to remove sprint, thruster pack, spartan charge, ground pound and all of the new ability’s that 343 implemented in Halo 5, I don’t understand why everybody wants Halo to go backward instead of going fordward by implementing new Spartan ability’s to the gameplay. We should let Halo to evolve.
>
> Which is funny because we already went backwards from Halo 4 to Halo 5. We removed Loadouts, Jetpack, kill cams, Ordnance, re-purposed Armor abilities into Spartan Abilities, and went back to equal starts.
>
> So clearly going backwards isn’t always a bad idea.
>
> And it’s also funny that people want Halo to “evolve”, but when other people want to change Halo 5, suddenly they don’t want it to evolve anymore.

Actually I did think that Halo 5 was a step backwards. Halo 4 loadouts were a good direction. Halo 5 appealed to the people who wanted a more classic experience. Then people shifted their complaints to sprint and Spartan abilities. If Halo 6 releases without sprint, the community will be split between:
People who find something else to be mad about.
People who will start forums named “We need sprint back”.

I would like Halo 6 to be like Halo 4. Halo 5’s equal starts disappointed me. They appealed to the competitive community instead of the casual. Loadouts and AA’s were awsome.

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> > > > > If they quit the sprint in future Halo’s, the game will be slow and boring cause now we are used to play a fast Halo. 343 can’t go back when they have done so many stuff with Halo. Honestly I wouldn’t like to have a Halo 3 with Halo 5 graphics.
> > > >
> > > > Is the only difference between Halo 3 and Halo 5 sprint?
> > > > Halo can’t be fast without sprint?
> > > > What makes Halo with sprint fast as it’s an ability used outside of combat, one of the main things done in Halo?
> > >
> > > Dude, people wants to remove sprint, thruster pack, spartan charge, ground pound and all of the new ability’s that 343 implemented in Halo 5, I don’t understand why everybody wants Halo to go backward instead of going fordward by implementing new Spartan ability’s to the gameplay. We should let Halo to evolve.
> >
> > Which is funny because we already went backwards from Halo 4 to Halo 5. We removed Loadouts, Jetpack, kill cams, Ordnance, re-purposed Armor abilities into Spartan Abilities, and went back to equal starts.
> >
> > So clearly going backwards isn’t always a bad idea.
> >
> > And it’s also funny that people want Halo to “evolve”, but when other people want to change Halo 5, suddenly they don’t want it to evolve anymore.
>
> Actually I did think that Halo 5 was a step backwards. Halo 4 loadouts were a good direction. Halo 5 appealed to the people who wanted a more classic experience. Then people shifted their complaints to sprint and Spartan abilities. If Halo 6 releases without sprint, the community will be split between:
> People who find something else to be mad about.
> People who will start forums named “We need sprint back”.
>
> I would like Halo 6 to be like Halo 4. Halo 5’s equal starts disappointed me. They appealed to the competitive community instead of the casual. Loadouts and AA’s were awsome.

Loadouts were the exact opposite of a good direction. It was bad in Halo Reach and it was bad in Halo 4.

Loadouts are directly against the concept of equal starts, which Halo was founded on. It brings each and every encounter down to chance. Instead of being about who is better, it is “who had the better Loadout”, and that’s something you can’t predict because it’s all handled outside of spawn.

Why? Because There is no predicting something you cannot control and someone else has full control of. In Halo CE-3, and in Halo 5, everyone starts with the same two weapons, no excuses. There are map pick ups on the field, but those are controllable factors based on timing and quantity. If you know one person has the DMR, you know another person won’t have the DMR. If you have the power weapon, you know everyone else won’t have the power weapon. If your opponent just spawned, you know he won’t have the DMR.

People hated Sprint ever since Halo Reach, if not the beta of Halo Reach. Reasons are listed multiple times in this thread. No one shifted their complaints, people just complained about more than one thing.

343i didn’t appeal to the “competitive” community, they reacted to the huge fall off in population in Halo 4 due to all the changes they made.

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I like the sprint mechanic and would be happy to see it stay as long as there’s a solid delay between coming out of sprint and shooting, so that it doesn’t become overused or too powerful

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> > > > > > If they quit the sprint in future Halo’s, the game will be slow and boring cause now we are used to play a fast Halo. 343 can’t go back when they have done so many stuff with Halo. Honestly I wouldn’t like to have a Halo 3 with Halo 5 graphics.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is the only difference between Halo 3 and Halo 5 sprint?
> > > > > Halo can’t be fast without sprint?
> > > > > What makes Halo with sprint fast as it’s an ability used outside of combat, one of the main things done in Halo?
> > > >
> > > > Dude, people wants to remove sprint, thruster pack, spartan charge, ground pound and all of the new ability’s that 343 implemented in Halo 5, I don’t understand why everybody wants Halo to go backward instead of going fordward by implementing new Spartan ability’s to the gameplay. We should let Halo to evolve.
> > >
> > > Which is funny because we already went backwards from Halo 4 to Halo 5. We removed Loadouts, Jetpack, kill cams, Ordnance, re-purposed Armor abilities into Spartan Abilities, and went back to equal starts.
> > >
> > > So clearly going backwards isn’t always a bad idea.
> > >
> > > And it’s also funny that people want Halo to “evolve”, but when other people want to change Halo 5, suddenly they don’t want it to evolve anymore.
> >
> > Actually I did think that Halo 5 was a step backwards. Halo 4 loadouts were a good direction. Halo 5 appealed to the people who wanted a more classic experience. Then people shifted their complaints to sprint and Spartan abilities. If Halo 6 releases without sprint, the community will be split between:
> > People who find something else to be mad about.
> > People who will start forums named “We need sprint back”.
> >
> > I would like Halo 6 to be like Halo 4. Halo 5’s equal starts disappointed me. They appealed to the competitive community instead of the casual. Loadouts and AA’s were awsome.
>
> Loadouts were the exact opposite of a good direction. It was bad in Halo Reach and it was bad in Halo 4.
>
> Loadouts are directly against the concept of equal starts, which Halo was founded on. It brings each and every encounter down to chance. Instead of being about who is better, it is “who had the better Loadout”, and that’s something you can’t predict because it’s all handled outside of spawn.
>
> Why? Because There is no predicting something you cannot control and someone else has full control of. In Halo CE-3, and in Halo 5, everyone starts with the same two weapons, no excuses. There are map pick ups on the field, but those are controllable factors based on timing and quantity. If you know one person has the DMR, you know another person won’t have the DMR. If you have the power weapon, you know everyone else won’t have the power weapon. If your opponent just spawned, you know he won’t have the DMR.
>
> People hated Sprint ever since Halo Reach, if not the beta of Halo Reach. Reasons are listed multiple times in this thread. No one shifted their complaints, people just complained about more than one thing.
>
> 343i didn’t appeal to the “competitive” community, they reacted to the huge fall off in population in Halo 4 due to all the changes they made.

No point in arguing with someone who dislikes loadouts. Loadouts are one of my favorite elements of Halo 4. They allow control over ones own spawn weapons. There is more variety and chaotic matches in Halo 4. That is what I like about it. Halo CE-3 feel to slow. Everything you said against loadouts is what I like. People can’t keep you from getting a DMR. If you’re worried someone else has a DMR, use the right loadouts. Jetpacks are awsome in BTB.

Halo peaked with Reach and 4. Halo 5 was decent except for the removal of loadouts. Equal spawns are overrated. Halo CE also had indestructible vehicles. Should indestructible vehicles be the standard for Halo? I’m not saying loadouts should be in every game mode. Maybe just BTB. Sprint is my least concern. If 343i removes sprints but adds faster BMS or something else, I’m fine with it.

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> 2535416616313329;14878:
> No point in arguing with someone who dislikes loadouts. Loadouts are one of my favorite elements of Halo 4. They allow control over ones own spawn weapons. There is more variety and chaotic matches in Halo 4. That is what I like about it. Halo CE-3 feel to slow. Everything you said against loadouts is what I like. People can’t keep you from getting a DMR. If you’re worried someone else has a DMR, use the right loadouts. Jetpacks are awsome in BTB.
>
> Halo peaked with Reach and 4. Halo 5 was decent except for the removal of loadouts. Equal spawns are overrated. Halo CE also had indestructible vehicles. Should indestructible vehicles be the standard for Halo? I’m not saying loadouts should be in every game mode. Maybe just BTB. Sprint is my least concern. If 343i removes sprints but adds faster BMS or something else, I’m fine with it.

Just because people have the option to choose whatever doesn’t make it fair. Equal opportunity doesn’t always mean balanced. Equal starts are more balanced for that very reason. Anything an experienced player spawns with, you will spawn with, because everyone spawns with the same two weapons.The whole point of the game is to use the environment to your advantage and get the power weapons before other players do so you can defeat them.

In Halo Reach, if I went up against the player, I cannot predict whether he has Sprint, Armor Lock, Hologram, Jetpack, Camo, etc. Those are 5+ different situations I have to worry about and there are no factors I can even rule out. It’s all determined by “Which one did he press A on before spawning?” From my perspective it’s just little more than RNG. Sure, I can pick an Armor ability to counter his armor ability after I died, but then he can pick an armor ability to counter my armor ability after he dies. It’s not equal, just two people switching off advantages and disadvantages all day.

In Halo 4, this increases exponentially. Now every time I encounter someone, I have to predict:

  • Which Primary Weapon did he choose to spawn with? - Which Secondary Weapon did he choose to spawn with? - Which Grenade did he choose to spawn with? - Which Armor Ability did he choose to spawn with? - Which 2 perks did he choose to spawn with?The battle literally comes down to “Who spawned what” like we’re playing a giant game of Fiesta. It’s not purely a test of skill, it involves him spawning the right thing while I spawned the wrong thing.

> 2535416616313329;14878:
> Halo peaked with Reach and 4. Halo 5 was decent except for the removal of loadouts. Equal spawns are overrated. Halo CE also had indestructible vehicles. Should indestructible vehicles be the standard for Halo? I’m not saying loadouts should be in every game mode. Maybe just BTB. Sprint is my least concern. If 343i removes sprints but adds faster BMS or something else, I’m fine with it.

In terms of population, no it didn’t. It objectively didn’t. Halo 3 was the peak. Halo 4 lost half its population within 2 weeks of launch, never to be seen again.

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> 2533274833081329;14879:
> > 2535416616313329;14878:
> > No point in arguing with someone who dislikes loadouts. Loadouts are one of my favorite elements of Halo 4. They allow control over ones own spawn weapons. There is more variety and chaotic matches in Halo 4. That is what I like about it. Halo CE-3 feel to slow. Everything you said against loadouts is what I like. People can’t keep you from getting a DMR. If you’re worried someone else has a DMR, use the right loadouts. Jetpacks are awsome in BTB.
> >
> > Halo peaked with Reach and 4. Halo 5 was decent except for the removal of loadouts. Equal spawns are overrated. Halo CE also had indestructible vehicles. Should indestructible vehicles be the standard for Halo? I’m not saying loadouts should be in every game mode. Maybe just BTB. Sprint is my least concern. If 343i removes sprints but adds faster BMS or something else, I’m fine with it.
>
> Just because people have the option to choose whatever doesn’t make it fair. Equal opportunity doesn’t always mean balanced. Equal starts are more balanced for that very reason. Anything an experienced player spawns with, you will spawn with, because everyone spawns with the same two weapons.The whole point of the game is to use the environment to your advantage and get the power weapons before other players do so you can defeat them.
>
> In Halo Reach, if I went up against the player, I cannot predict whether he has Sprint, Armor Lock, Hologram, Jetpack, Camo, etc. Those are 5+ different situations I have to worry about and there are no factors I can even rule out. It’s all determined by “Which one did he press A on before spawning?” From my perspective it’s just little more than RNG. Sure, I can pick an Armor ability to counter his armor ability after I died, but then he can pick an armor ability to counter my armor ability after he dies. It’s not equal, just two people switching off advantages and disadvantages all day.
>
> In Halo 4, this increases exponentially. Now every time I encounter someone, I have to predict:
> - Which Primary Weapon did he choose to spawn with? - Which Secondary Weapon did he choose to spawn with? - Which Grenade did he choose to spawn with? - Which Armor Ability did he choose to spawn with? - Which 2 perks did he choose to spawn with?The battle literally comes down to “Who spawned what” like we’re playing a giant game of Fiesta. It’s not purely a test of skill, it involves him spawning the right thing while I spawned the wrong thing.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535416616313329;14878:
> > Halo peaked with Reach and 4. Halo 5 was decent except for the removal of loadouts. Equal spawns are overrated. Halo CE also had indestructible vehicles. Should indestructible vehicles be the standard for Halo? I’m not saying loadouts should be in every game mode. Maybe just BTB. Sprint is my least concern. If 343i removes sprints but adds faster BMS or something else, I’m fine with it.
>
> In terms of population, no it didn’t. It objectively didn’t. Halo 3 was the peak. Halo 4 lost half its population within 2 weeks of launch, never to be seen again.

I don’t care if Halo is super competitive. I play Halo for relaxation and fun. I don’t care if Halo 3 was considered the best, if it isn’t fun for me. The entire planet can love Halo 3 and hate Halo 4, but it fails to convince me otherwise. It is very simple: I have tons of fun playing Halo 4, I get destroyed by poor matchmaking in Halo 3.

I don’t think we are going to get anything more out of this discussion. We’re arguing about which game we have fun in. It’s entirely subjective.

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> 2535416616313329;14880:
> I don’t care if Halo is super competitive. I play Halo for relaxation and fun. I don’t care if Halo 3 was considered the best, if it isn’t fun for me. The entire planet can love Halo 3 and hate Halo 4, but it fails to convince me otherwise. It is very simple: I have tons of fun playing Halo 4, I get destroyed by poor matchmaking in Halo 3.
>
> I don’t think we are going to get anything more out of this discussion. We’re arguing about which game we have fun in. It’s entirely subjective.

I didn’t say “Halo should be super competitive”, I said Halo should be fair and balanced. You can have a balanced game while still being casual. You should want a balanced game whether it’s casual or competitive.

In the (distant) past, you were unhappy that experienced players were beating you because they took all the good weapons. Yes more experienced players should be rewarded for knowing what they’re doing. That’s why they’re experienced. Having the ability to randomly lose doesn’t make things balanced, and it won’t push new players to get any better, only to keep doing random stuff. If the game was perfectly balanced, you would never match against those people anyway and only face other beginners.

You say that it’s entirely subjective, but you didn’t provide a subjective statement in your recent comment. You provided objective statements.

  • “Halo 4 loadouts were a good direction.” - "Halo peaked with Reach and 4."Those can be proven to some objective standard. Yes you like Loadouts and you are completely entitled to that opinion, but clearly enough people didn’t to where 343i quickly backed out of that idea for standard game modes.

But this is getting very off topic so enough about Loadouts.

Sprint follows this same balance problem. Just because everyone has it doesn’t make it balanced.

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[deleted]

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> 2533274833081329;14881:
> > 2535416616313329;14880:
> > I don’t care if Halo is super competitive. I play Halo for relaxation and fun. I don’t care if Halo 3 was considered the best, if it isn’t fun for me. The entire planet can love Halo 3 and hate Halo 4, but it fails to convince me otherwise. It is very simple: I have tons of fun playing Halo 4, I get destroyed by poor matchmaking in Halo 3.
> >
> > I don’t think we are going to get anything more out of this discussion. We’re arguing about which game we have fun in. It’s entirely subjective.
>
> In the (distant) past, you were unhappy that experienced players were beating you because they took all the good weapons. Yes more experienced players should be rewarded for knowing what they’re doing. That’s why they’re experienced. Having the ability to randomly lose doesn’t make things balanced, and it won’t push new players to get any better, only to keep doing random stuff. If the game was perfectly balanced, you would never match against those people anyway and only face other beginners

I don’t know where you got the idea that I played Halo 3 in the distant past. Every time I play TMCC, I remember again why I dislike Halo 3.

As for sprint, I would like to see faster BMS. Clamber should stay though. Sprint is just a second mode of movement. What if we had movement as a toggle mode. One was slower and more precise. The other for traveling longer distances. Both modes would be a form of BMS. I think another person had the the complaint that they wanted to move fast but not too fast in a doorway. This would be a way to move faster without sacrificing precision or the ability to shoot.

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> 2535416616313329;14883:
> > 2533274833081329;14881:
> > > 2535416616313329;14880:
> > > I don’t care if Halo is super competitive. I play Halo for relaxation and fun. I don’t care if Halo 3 was considered the best, if it isn’t fun for me. The entire planet can love Halo 3 and hate Halo 4, but it fails to convince me otherwise. It is very simple: I have tons of fun playing Halo 4, I get destroyed by poor matchmaking in Halo 3.
> > >
> > > I don’t think we are going to get anything more out of this discussion. We’re arguing about which game we have fun in. It’s entirely subjective.
> >
> > In the (distant) past, you were unhappy that experienced players were beating you because they took all the good weapons. Yes more experienced players should be rewarded for knowing what they’re doing. That’s why they’re experienced. Having the ability to randomly lose doesn’t make things balanced, and it won’t push new players to get any better, only to keep doing random stuff. If the game was perfectly balanced, you would never match against those people anyway and only face other beginners
>
> I don’t know where you got the idea that I played Halo 3 in the distant past. Every time I play TMCC, I remember again why I dislike Halo 3.
>
> As for sprint, I would like to see faster BMS. Clamber should stay though. Sprint is just a second mode of movement. What if we had movement as a toggle mode. One was slower and more precise. The other for traveling longer distances. Both modes would be a form of BMS. I think another person had the the complaint that they wanted to move fast but not too fast in a doorway. This would be a way to move faster without sacrificing precision or the ability to shoot.

Because this isn’t the first time you interacted with me about Loadouts and you said that exact thing.

For “Toggle” Sprint, what would be the point of ever using the slower speed if you can do everything and more in the faster speed? You’d just be putting yourself at an inherent disadvantage. If you want to go slower, don’t push all the way on the stick. That’s a variable input on your speed. Also, if maps were designed around that maximum speed, you wouldn’t be doing that because you wouldn’t be going “too fast” in relation to the size of the map.

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> 2535464451695009;14882:
> > 2535416616313329;14880:
> > > 2533274833081329;14879:
> > > > 2535416616313329;14878:
> > > > No point in arguing with someone who dislikes loadouts. Loadouts are one of my favorite elements of Halo 4. They allow control over ones own spawn weapons. There is more variety and chaotic matches in Halo 4. That is what I like about it. Halo CE-3 feel to slow. Everything you said against loadouts is what I like. People can’t keep you from getting a DMR. If you’re worried someone else has a DMR, use the right loadouts. Jetpacks are awsome in BTB.
> > > >
> > > > Halo peaked with Reach and 4. Halo 5 was decent except for the removal of loadouts. Equal spawns are overrated. Halo CE also had indestructible vehicles. Should indestructible vehicles be the standard for Halo? I’m not saying loadouts should be in every game mode. Maybe just BTB. Sprint is my least concern. If 343i removes sprints but adds faster BMS or something else, I’m fine with it.
> >
> > I don’t care if Halo is super competitive. I play Halo for relaxation and fun. I don’t care if Halo 3 was considered the best, if it isn’t fun for me. The entire planet can love Halo 3 and hate Halo 4, but it fails to convince me otherwise. It is very simple: I have tons of fun playing Halo 4, I get destroyed by poor matchmaking in Halo 3.
> >
> > I don’t think we are going to get anything more out of this discussion. We’re arguing about which game we have fun in. It’s entirely subjective.
>
> I think this reasoning is why you feel like you’re not getting anywhere with your discussion. You’re completely shutting out people who have a different opinion than you, and want someone, even from a differing viewpoint, to affirm your opinion.
>
> When we talk about Halo, we almost always talk about the general population, because they’re the ones who drive a franchise’s success. Microsoft is just providing us a service, though Bungie (before) and 343 Industries, and we, the general population, are the ones who decide if we still need this service. As of right now, the general population is showing that very little people want Halo. This thread is essentially, at its core, “How can we make people want Halo again?”

I apologize if I get a little worked up over Halo 4. It’s just that so many people complain about it, and it makes me feel as if I am the only one who enjoyed the play style. Halo 5 was influenced by the majority of the Halo community(which apparently isn’t me). I actually enjoy Halo 5, I just don’t want the community to (once again)remove the good aspects of Halo. I will get Halo 6 either way, because I enjoy all the Halo campaigns.

People can dislike loadouts but please don’t tell me that everyone dislikes them. It feels to me like I’m being shutout for liking loadouts. As for sprint, I actually am okay with the idea of a Halo without sprint. Just for the chance to see if I could do decent in a classic style Halo(I missed out on the Halo 3 days).