> 2533274794648158;14742:
> > 2547348539238747;14715:
> > I’ve had a solution to sprint knocking around in my head for years now. Really simple.
> >
> > Tie Sprint to Shields.If you have anything less than full shield, you can not sprint. It stops players sprinting out from a firefight, and if they have hidden long enough to recharge shield then they have earned the right to sprint again. It stops players delaying their shield recharge by sprinting, or sprinting to recharge them. Essentially still has a “de-sprint” effect. Doesn’t stop players sprinting back in to the action when they spawn. Doesn’t need to be time limited. Really simple to understand function, and doesn’t need yet another bar on the screen.
> >
> > Originally I devised this idea with the mechanic actually using Shields as energy and depleting Shield as it’s used, but even without that it’s a better system. Still not perfect, but better.
>
> As someone who already dislikes H5’s implementation of sprint, I think this would be terrible. I find the whole idea of sacrificing health for movement completely asinine in a game where you’re expected to always be moving. Sure, players won’t be escaping encounters as much, but the shield punishment affects more than just defensive use. It also punishes anyone who gets into gun battles regularly since most of the time you’ll come out of an encounter with half shields or lower. You’re put at a positional disadvantage because you chose to engage players. Now a lot of people might be thinking “You just need to wait some seconds before you can sprint again, no big deal”, but then consider how many engagements take place during a single match and you’ll find that this limitation is signficantly compounded.
>
> On the flip side, let’s say a player decides to sprint anyway. He just won an encounter and is half shields, but rockets is coming up. He’ll be there in time to contest rockets, but he’s now at a health disadvantage because he made, on all counts, an entirely sensible decision.
>
> It just doesn’t make sense to me. Designing maps around sprint speed and then punishing players for wanting to move around them efficiently.
I think you misunderstand. I wouldn’t have sprint drain shields (that was my original solution). I’d have it so that sprint was disabled unless you had full shield. And since players are already waiting for their shields to recharge before they sprint (because if they didn’t they would delay recharge) then clearly that is not an issue for players. So current players are already at a disadvantage for movement for engaging in combat.
My solution, which I admit isn’t perfect (I’d still prefer sprint be removed) it would be very much like Halo 5 sprint, but without the mid-firefight getaway, the annoying delayed recharge, and extra hud elements. It’s a system that has no added negatives that current sprint doesn’t already have, but it addresses a few of the issues with it. Let’s face it, as long as Halo keeps sprint it will always be a monstrous hybrid arena shooter with an identity crisis.
> 2533274997615424;14747:
> Getting rid of sprint in place of overall faster movement is just stupid
>
> The whole point of sprint is it balances the speed advantage you have by not allowing you to shoot.
There wouldn’t be a speed advantage if everyone shared the same movement speed. A speed advantage only comes into play when sprint is in the game.
> 2533274997615424;14747:
> Getting rid of sprint in place of overall faster movement is just stupid
>
> The whole point of sprint is it balances the speed advantage you have by not allowing you to shoot.
Without Sprint, you wouldn’t have a speed advantage over everyone else. Everyone runs at the same speed, anyone can shoot at any time, therefore it is up to you to use your superior skill to defeat someone who is equal to you.
You want Sprint for “balanced”, but it turns out not having Sprint is more balanced than anything else in the long run.
You’re quickly starting to get less and less coherent with your arguments.
> 2533274997615424;14747:
> Getting rid of sprint in place of overall faster movement is just stupid
>
> The whole point of sprint is it balances the speed advantage you have by not allowing you to shoot.
You actually think keeping a mechanic which explicitly gives players a speed advantage over others is better than having it replaced with an increase to Base Movement Speed - which doesn’t give players a speed advantage, so every player moves at exactly the same pace? In a game which encourages the design philosophy of being able to move fluidly around maps WHILE shooting other players?
I’ve got a question for you, and it is a legitimate one: are you serious? No, really, are you?
> 2533274997615424;14747:
> Getting rid of sprint in place of overall faster movement is just stupid
>
> The whole point of sprint is it balances the speed advantage you have by not allowing you to shoot.
The overarching “point” of Sprint is to allow players to move faster. When that can be achieved while maintaining weapon usage and allowing such speed in directions other than forward, why do you feel it’s better to restrict the player instead?
> 2533274997615424;14747:
> The whole point of sprint is it balances the speed advantage you have by not allowing you to shoot.
> 2535440283237581;14751:
> The overarching “point” of Sprint is to allow players to move faster. When that can be achieved while maintaining weapon usage and allowing such speed in directions other than forward, why do you feel it’s better to restrict the player instead?
The overarching point of sprint is to have it because other major competitors have it…I linked the GDC talk somewhere within this thread i believe, something along the lines of “well we think people expect a game to have sprint these days, so we feel obligated to keep shoehorning it into Halo”
> 2533274801973487;14752:
> > 2533274997615424;14747:
> > The whole point of sprint is it balances the speed advantage you have by not allowing you to shoot.
>
>
>
> > 2535440283237581;14751:
> > The overarching “point” of Sprint is to allow players to move faster. When that can be achieved while maintaining weapon usage and allowing such speed in directions other than forward, why do you feel it’s better to restrict the player instead?
>
> The overarching point of sprint is to have it because other major competitors have it…I linked the GDC talk somewhere within this thread i believe, something along the lines of “well we think people expect a game to have sprint these days, so we feel obligated to keep shoehorning it into Halo”
Well yes, but I’m trying to ask why so many people expect/prefer a “Sprint-centric” game.
I feel like there are only two options that can satisfy everyone.One is you get rid of sprint,but increase base movement speed,And the second option is to have playlists dedicated to old school movement without any type of spartan ability
> 2535440283237581;14753:
> > 2533274801973487;14752:
> > > 2533274997615424;14747:
> > > The whole point of sprint is it balances the speed advantage you have by not allowing you to shoot.
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2535440283237581;14751:
> > > The overarching “point” of Sprint is to allow players to move faster. When that can be achieved while maintaining weapon usage and allowing such speed in directions other than forward, why do you feel it’s better to restrict the player instead?
> >
> > The overarching point of sprint is to have it because other major competitors have it…I linked the GDC talk somewhere within this thread i believe, something along the lines of “well we think people expect a game to have sprint these days, so we feel obligated to keep shoehorning it into Halo”
>
> Well yes, but I’m trying to ask why so many people expect/prefer a “Sprint-centric” game.
My theories:
I believe we’re at a point where most active gamers grew up playing games where sprint is a no-brainer, imagining a game without sprint is scary, pointing at old games like CE-3 won’t help either since those are, well, old…
Moving faster isn’t what most mainstream gamers want, if it were, people would be all over Doom, even with it’s no moer then average MP. I believe most gamers want the feeling of engagement, having to press additional buttons just to move around the map properly and having visual cues that indicate something special is happening is doing a good job. It’s creating the illusion of speed and an empty shell of “skill” (“duuude, you have to know when to sprint end when not to sprint”) while keeping the actual gameplay dull despite beeing more complex on the outside (since you have to press more buttons).
And last but not least, people will like whatever 343s PR team tells them to like, right now it’s “I want to feel like a super soldier and some trailer says those can sprint (pokemon-dash, thrust,…) so it makes me feel like a super soldier”, if 343 would build their H6 marketing around feeling like a super soldier who can shoot without slowing down, many people (not all of course) will enjoy that style of game…
> 2533274830166194;14754:
> I feel like there are only two options that can satisfy everyone.One is you get rid of sprint,but increase base movement speed,And the second option is to have playlists dedicated to old school movement without any type of spartan ability
First option would be fine by me but the seccond wouldn’t work, different movement needs to have a different weapon balancing
> 2533274830166194;14754:
> I feel like there are only two options that can satisfy everyone.One is you get rid of sprint,but increase base movement speed,And the second option is to have playlists dedicated to old school movement without any type of spartan ability.
343 should just stick to one thing cause they’ll never please everyone. I think no sprint with a faster BSM and some type of abilities could work if they’re done properly.
> 2727626560040591;14756:
> > 2533274830166194;14754:
> > I feel like there are only two options that can satisfy everyone.One is you get rid of sprint,but increase base movement speed,And the second option is to have playlists dedicated to old school movement without any type of spartan ability.
>
> 343 should just stick to one thing cause they’ll never please everyone. I think no sprint with a faster BSM and some type of abilities could work if they’re done properly.
> 2533274830166194;14754:
> I feel like there are only two options that can satisfy everyone.One is you get rid of sprint,but increase base movement speed,And the second option is to have playlists dedicated to old school movement without any type of spartan ability
Third option: dedicate bulk of the game to “old school” movement and have playlists/custom game options to accommodate those that enjoy additional mechanics.
> 2535440283237581;14758:
> > 2533274830166194;14754:
> > I feel like there are only two options that can satisfy everyone.One is you get rid of sprint,but increase base movement speed,And the second option is to have playlists dedicated to old school movement without any type of spartan ability
>
> Third option: dedicate bulk of the game to “old school” movement and have playlists/custom game options to accommodate those that enjoy additional mechanics.
> 2533274830166194;14759:
> > 2535440283237581;14758:
> > > 2533274830166194;14754:
> > > I feel like there are only two options that can satisfy everyone.One is you get rid of sprint,but increase base movement speed,And the second option is to have playlists dedicated to old school movement without any type of spartan ability
> >
> > Third option: dedicate bulk of the game to “old school” movement and have playlists/custom game options to accommodate those that enjoy additional mechanics.
>
> That’s what my second option was
> 2533274830166194;14754:
> I feel like there are only two options that can satisfy everyone.One is you get rid of sprint,but increase base movement speed,And the second option is to have playlists dedicated to old school movement without any type of spartan ability
Easily the first one.
If a person is against increasing the Base Movement Speed, more often than not, they don’t want Sprint because it makes them go faster, they want Sprint because they like the animation of swinging your arms around and its familiar.
> 2535464451695009;14762:
> > 2533274830166194;14754:
> > I feel like there are only two options that can satisfy everyone.One is you get rid of sprint,but increase base movement speed,And the second option is to have playlists dedicated to old school movement without any type of spartan ability
>
> There’s a third option with bringing back Reach’s Armor Abilities and Loadouts, but actually fixing them, unlike what Halo 4 did, to be suitable for Arena gameplay. Classic AR+Pistol+2xFrag spawns, Armor Abilities as map pickups and no Loadouts in Ranked/Unranked Matches, and a bunch of “modern” and party game modes in social/casual playlists. Kind of like how Overwatch does their different game modes.
>
> Personally, I think it’s a decent bridge to help bring back some of the Arena Shooter popularity of the early 2000s with the Ability and Class-Based shooters we have now. No one’s tried it yet apart from MLG in 2010/2011, so yeah.
I have said something similar to this as well. I don’t care for AAs or anything, but AAs as map pick up items like the MLG playlist was in Reach wasn’t bad at all. Too bad more people didn’t play that playlist to be exposed to that idea. Ultimately, if AAs we’re map pick ups, they would act like equipment more less from Halo 3.
If I had to pick, I actually think I would pick this option as I loved equipment in Halo 3. Second choice would be increase base moment speed. I think having one playlist that is just no sprint would be a bad idea. The idea is too find that happy medium with everyone, not separate everyone even more… At least, that’s what I think.
> 2535464451695009;14762:
> > 2533274830166194;14754:
> > I feel like there are only two options that can satisfy everyone.One is you get rid of sprint,but increase base movement speed,And the second option is to have playlists dedicated to old school movement without any type of spartan ability
>
> There’s a third option with bringing back Reach’s Armor Abilities and Loadouts, but actually fixing them, unlike what Halo 4 did, to be suitable for Arena gameplay. Classic AR+Pistol+2xFrag spawns, Armor Abilities as map pickups and no Loadouts in Ranked/Unranked Matches, and a bunch of “modern” and party game modes in social/casual playlists. Kind of like how Overwatch does their different game modes.
>
> Personally, I think it’s a decent bridge to help bring back some of the Arena Shooter popularity of the early 2000s with the Ability and Class-Based shooters we have now. No one’s tried it yet apart from MLG in 2010/2011, so yeah.
Yes, and in 2010/2011 it didn’t work out.
No loadout selection please ever. The idea makes me cringe. It sounds like you are only advocating for that in social “party” playlists which i guess would be ok… but loadouts CANNOT make their way into any ranked or more standard social playlists. I still don’t like the idea of the game even being able to do it, but that might be the bad taste in my mouth from Reach and 4.
As far as armor abilities as pickups, i dont like that idea either. Everybody should have the same core mechanics present for use at all times. Thats the major “Equal starts” philosophy of halo that must stay intact. Instead of something like a sprint pickup, i would create a powerup like Doom’s “Haste”. Make everything you do 20-30% faster. Movement speed, reload speed, fire rate. Replace the current “speed boost” powerup with that so you can use the white shield as the tell that someone has it.
Sprint should be removed from the game entirely. Instead i would replace it with a slightly higher base movement, quick-short acceleration with full stick deflection and make the whole game run on a higher FoV. Maybe add some effects to the edges of the screen once people have been at full stick deflection for a couple of seconds. All things to make people “Feel” fast, since thats really what pro-sprint arguments boil down to, but without forcing you to put your gun down and slowing down the game and not having the negative effects on map design and creativity that sprint forces.
