I read page 1 and page 729. Im sure there are tons of worthy posts and point of views within those pages. I love the Sprint and Spartan Charge. Im one of the guys who uses spartan charges and a follow up head shot to finish off an opponent quickly. LOVE IT.
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> Obviously, it doesn’t. If seven years of debating isn’t going to convince people, why bother wasting more of your time explaining to people when they could just look up why a portion of the community dislike said mechanic?
But if you can’t be bothered to explain at all, why say anything? There’s nothing wrong with staying silent if you feel like you’ve said everything meaningful you can and don’t want to repeat yourself. I’ve been less vocal about sprint for a few years already because I got tired of repeating the same things.
> 2533274806427910;14558:
> Sure, because Waypoint is clearly one of the more hospitable places to discuss Halo (not). How can I be hostile to people I disagree with when I’m not flaring insults at them? I only act that way to people who do it to me, and I didn’t mock anyone; all I did was post a gif to someone who based their logic on a playlist instead of the actual game, that’s not mocking, it’s showing my disapproval of these type of arguments that I see every time I come to this website. You want to see mocking and hostility? Look at this forum. Seriously, when was the last time people here actually had a healthy discussion about anything Halo-related? Probably never, from my experience.
It’s not like I wouldn’t know how bad Waypoint can be. I’ve definitely had plenty of healthydiscussions before, though. Also, I have to admit that now I think my comment might have been a bit of an overreaction.
> 2533274806427910;14558:
> Ultimately, it is up to the person to react to those observations. If they disagree and still think Sprint should in Halo, I think they should be able to try to argue these observations instead of ignoring them because they contradict how Sprint benefits Halo to them.
If they do think those observations are wrong, yes, of course.
> 2533274806427910;14558:
> I never said it made me the authority to begin with because I know where my place is. We don’t have Loadouts in Arena because we were the vocal majority that wanted them gone. Sprint is nerfed because we told 343i to remove it, or at least nerf it (which didn’t turn out too good). Just because we aren’t the authority, or the people who design these games, doesn’t mean we don’t have an influence on how developers develop the game.
Again, nothing I disagree with here. My disagreement was purely with the notion of “objectively good”, which is an oxymoron.
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> > > Sprint makes the game a lot more faster, this is an special key for competitive.
> >
> > Second, it’s argued that players can more easily escape situations the find problematic than they could in an environment without sprint. Viewed as a reduction in the skill-gap, which quite a few see as something that goes against the competitive aspects of a game.
>
> That may be true, but its a logical fallacy. You can’t interject a different mechanic and say that they would have died if “x” happened, when that mechanic doesn’t exist. A good player acknowledges these variables and reacts to them according to defeat an inferior opponent. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t think what you just said is indicative of a smaller skill gap, as long as the player can’t use a cheap mechanic to get a free kill. Games where everyone has the same abilities generally make skill gaps fairly large. I just can’t think of an example in Halo 5 where the inferior player can get cheap kills on a better player, with the exception of certain weapons like the suppressor that are easy to obtain.
> See, I could be using this time to work on homework, but what better time to get into a senseless internet spat.
Let me explain what a Skill Gap is, or how I’ve come to understand it in my studies, school studies, not when I’ve been doing stuff here.
For most software there’s something called “usability”. Don’t confuse it with “user friendly”, as most of the software being regarded as “user friendly” does generally have little usability. “User friendly” software is often seen as programs which tell users how to do things easily, little commands, simple User Interface and, in the end little Usability.
So what is Usability? It’s a term used in Software describing what users can achieve in the software. For a simple comparison, the Calculator on your PC has low Usability, while Excell has a higher Usability. Then you have a so called “Usability Roof”, or “Skill Roof”. This is the most “work” a user can achieve with the Software, depending on what it is of course. Then you have Expert users, average users, beginners, learners and so forth. Different types of users being described with how much they’ve learned, previous experience and so forth. Expert users are those who reach the “Roof”, they get the most out of what the software can do. Average users tend to not reach the “Roof”, either they stop learning, or their skill isn’t that of the Expert users, or some other reason which prevent them from reaching the same levels of the Expert users. There you, for instance, have a skill gap.
So, what is the Skill Gap? It is, in simple terms, what a better user can do which another inferior user can’t.
What is then a reduction in the Skill gap? It’s generally two things.
A: Something that lowers the “Usability Roof”
B: Something which boosts the Inferior user’s output, but does not benefit the better user as much as the inferior user, if at all.
So, what does Sprint mostly get used as?
Traversing the map, and escaping.
How much does Sprint help player’s of all skill levels in traversing the map?
The only thing it does in that aspect is increase your forward momentum, how is that then different from before when you had one max forward momentum?
Escaping on the other hand.
As an escapee you give your chaser three options:
1: Sprint and chase you, sacrificing damage output entirely
2: Run and shoot you, losing distance
3: Ignore you, leading to a successful escape
Compare it to a situation where you try to disengage from a fight where your chaser can maintain distance and can deal damage to you. In order to properly get out you need to be good at juking, no? A good juker does not benefit as much from Sprint as an average Juker, because the good one knows most the tricks. The average user doesn’t, but Sprint allows him/her to get a better chance of escaping due to eliminating one out of two important aspects of chasing, damage or distance.
So, in that sense I see Sprint shrinking the Skill Gap.
So no, same abilities for all players does not automatically mean a large skill gap. Because it’s about what an expert user can do, and how easily it can be done, what features there are that boost others, or limit the experts.
For instance, I probably joked about it in this thread.
What if there was an auto-aim / aim-bot / aim-lock-on feature? Press a button and you’d have a second or two time where they game aim’s perfectly for you and all you need to do is press the trigger.
Edit: When I had homework, I’d usually clean, do the dishes, make the bed, before I did the homework.
Now I’m spending time here instead of playing Divinity Original Sin 2, or rather, doing both.
> 2533274794648158;14559:
> What I’m understanding here is that sprint debates would be much more productive if both parties were coming from the same framework, but such cases are extremely rare.
You’re right, everyone accepting the same framework is an unreasonable expectation. Everyone doesn’t enjoy Halo for the same reasons, and a person’s opinion on whether sprint should or shouldn’t be in Halo is completely dependent on why they enjoy Halo.
I think the lesson here is, or at least what I’m trying to say is, that it would be beneficial for all of us to recognize when an argument falls in the domain where we can objectively discuss it in some framework, and when it’s just an unfalsifiable, subjective statement.
For example, if I said: “I think sprint should be in Halo because it makes the game faster”, once we got over the issue of what exactly “speed of gameplay” means, we could address whether the assertion holds or doesn’t. So, this is a falsifiable statement. And indeed, based on evidence I have seen, it doesn’t, so I would be wrong, which means that I would have to rethink why I think sprint should be in Halo (or maybe even rethink whether it should be in Halo at all).
On the other hand, if I said: “I think sprint should be in Halo because it makes me feel like a Spartan”, this would be a completely unfalsifiable statement since it is about my feelings, and my feelings alone. Discussion can of course be had about our feelings towards the statement, but it should be understood that no matter how hard you argue, no matter how strong your logic, this argument can’t be proven wrong in any useful framework.
This might sound sort of obvious, but I’ve definitely seen situations where a person thinks some subjective statement can be proven wrong. I may have been that person at some point myself.
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> > > > 2533274825830455;14522:
> > > > > 2533274863544717;14521:
> > > > > I don’t believe that videos like this are subjective. Yes, there are some subjective arguments, but the speed comparison of Halo 3 vs. Halo 5 isn’t one of them.
> > > >
> > > > I think it would do us all a favor to distinguish what exactly is and what isn’t subjective.
> > > >
> > > > Sure enough, the observation that map sizes have increased to counteract the speed increase brought by sprint is not subjective. Anyone can replicate the experiment in that video, and arrive at the same conclusion. However, what is subjective is whether this is, or isn’t a bad thing.
> > > >
> > > > We can discuss the effects of sprint on gameplay in an objective way. That’s productive, and important, and it helps us understand the mechanic, but it’s just cataloging facts and conjectures about sprint. Ultimately, we have to face the question: what does that all mean for the player experience? And this question has no right answer. It depends on what any one of us wants from the game.
> > >
> > > It is interesting that sprint slows down gameplay, but I guess you are in a non-combative state for the most part. This is also conjecture, but I think that sprint has become so common in shooters, that it could hurt a game to not include it.
>
> I wouldn’t say that overwatch is a fair comparison, or the DOOM was successful at all. I couldn’t find games within the first two weeks. Obviously, we can’t say this is based on movement systems, but it still didn’t prove that an old schoolish arena game is clearly superior over games with sprint. I don’t think there is anything I can add that I haven’t said already on this thread, but I believe that sprint was a good idea to implement based on market trends and the relative popularity of Halo compared to other games. There are many factors at play when predicting a game’s success.
Why isn’t Overwatch a good comparison?? Your reasons?Overwatch might not be a pure Arena FPS, I acknowledge that but it definitely has elements of one… And I’m not even talking about if it’s a arena type, loadouts type or character type anyways, that wasn’t the point. The point was, You stated that modern FPS without a sprint animation might hurt it’s sales, popularity etc. I gave an example of a new, modern FPS (Overwatch) that has done extremely well in both sales and in popularity and it has no sprint animation (save 1 character) So unless you can gave me a reason that I haven’t thought of as too why it’s not a good comparison, Overwatch has proved your statement otherwise.
DOOM wasn’t successful at all??? Your kidding right?? Please tell me your kidding… It was nominated for 4 video game awards Source Including game of the year I might add, no small feat. It won 2 awards for best action game and best soundtrack. Just as a side note, in the other two categories that it lost in, game of the year and best game Direction, it lost to Overwatch. DOOM did extremely well in sales and was hailed by the majority of old Doom fans, non Doom fans and reviewers alike. It didn’t sustain popularity as well, this is true, as the multiplayer had a lot of flaws when it first launched which hurt a lot. They have now corrected that and it is a lot better but the damage was done. In this day and age if a game doesn’t launch right odds are it’s going to hurt the population big time as we all are aware (looking at you TMCC) Even if the multiplayer didn’t have flaws at lunch, I do think it wouldn’t have been crazy popular as the multiplayer portion of the game definitely had some flaws and lacked some polish I think, but it would have done a heck of a lot better than what it did if it was right from the get-go though.
Personally I don’t mind DOOMs multiplayer now at all. Some interesting game modes, but to me they went too much the load out route with it when they should of went pure Arena style like they used to be. It would seem the majority of people on forms and social media agree with me. That aside I have yet to hear one bad thing or person complain about Dooms single player campaign and the game’s mechanics.
I can understand the thinking behind 343 / Microsoft implementing a Sprint animation in Halo 4, I can and I don’t fault them for that or trying. But ultimately it was the wrong choice and we all know it, as Halo 4 is easily the least popular Halo game as a whole by far. Hence all the numerous changes in Halo 5 a lot for the better I might add. Ever since Halo has gone away from its original core gameplay it hasn’t done as well like it or not and that’s a fact. Now there could be numerous reasons as to why it’s not and I’m not going to sit here and say it’s only because of sprint either as I know that isn’t true.
One of the worst trends (other than microtransactions but that’s another whole topic) is ADS style zooming. Halo had an amazing, and unique I might add, zooming style that could have been easily updated and looked amazing. Instead, 343I decided to get rid of it for this generic ADS style zooming system which in my opinion adds absolutely nothing to the game other than it makes it look like every other FPS. You want you game to stand out not blend in with the crowd. This is a perfect example of something that didn’t need to be changed at all. Why did 343I change this??? … Well, the only answer I can come up with is they were following the market trends, which hasn’t exactly paid off… you’d think after Halo 4 they would have learned this.
What I do know is that ever since Halo has changed its core mechanics, it’s not as popular (I have been playing since Halo CE, got it the first month it was out, so I’ve been around for a while lol) So to me the smart thing to do would be to go back to more of a Halo 1-3 style and see how well it gets received. I don’t hate Halo 5 core mechanics at all I might add, but at the end of the day companies are in this business to make money. If going back might and there’s a lot of evidence that says it will, make you more money, then why not go back to a style what made you the most money. They have now tried following the trends, maybe they should start setting them again. Unless they do a really poor job on the game I can’t see it selling worse than Halo 5 so I don’t know what they have to lose. If it doesn’t do as well, well now you know, and it will put to rest a lot of discussions like this. Then, you can go back to more of a Halo 5 style or something else if they wish.
Halo used to start trends… now, it just seems to follow them and that makes me sad 
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> > IMO, the best feeling Halo game released in the last couple of years is the DOOM multiplayer. Obviously there are parts of it that wouldn’t transition well to a Halo game, but the general movement is streets ahead of Halo 5. I think that Clamber is implemented better, and the double jump is a really interesting tool that I think could work really well in a Halo game.
>
> It sounds like I really need to try DOOM out. There are so many saying good things about it. I think it bodes well for the future of a Halo with no Sprint. Especially since we already know that 343 dev have used mechanics from other popular games to influence them.
You absolutely need to play Doom. If you like the original Doom I will be shocked if you don’t absolutely love the way the new Doom game plays. Even if you never played the original Doom, I would be surprised if you didn’t like the new one.
I played so much of thy original Doom… How much? Well let’s just say if they were giving out degrees for playing that game, I would have gotten more then one lol I absolutely love how the new Doom game plays. When I play the new Doom I get the same feeling as I get when I played the original. Bethesda did an incredible job at keeping that Doom “feel” everything from the look of the game too the audio which is an important and big part of Doom.
The single-player is incredible! Great story, visuals and audio (won soundtrack of the year last year) The multiplayer isn’t bad but has some flaws. It definitely could use some more polish.
You definitely need to play DOOM, and when you do, play it on ultraviolent right off the bat, with the sound turned up! Your welcome 
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> > > > Sprint makes the game a lot more faster, this is an special key for competitive.
> > >
> > > Second, it’s argued that players can more easily escape situations the find problematic than they could in an environment without sprint. Viewed as a reduction in the skill-gap, which quite a few see as something that goes against the competitive aspects of a game.
> >
> > That may be true, but its a logical fallacy. You can’t interject a different mechanic and say that they would have died if “x” happened, when that mechanic doesn’t exist. A good player acknowledges these variables and reacts to them according to defeat an inferior opponent. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t think what you just said is indicative of a smaller skill gap, as long as the player can’t use a cheap mechanic to get a free kill. Games where everyone has the same abilities generally make skill gaps fairly large. I just can’t think of an example in Halo 5 where the inferior player can get cheap kills on a better player, with the exception of certain weapons like the suppressor that are easy to obtain.
> > See, I could be using this time to work on homework, but what better time to get into a senseless internet spat.
>
> Compare it to a situation where you try to disengage from a fight where your chaser can maintain distance and can deal damage to you. In order to properly get out you need to be good at juking, no? A good juker does not benefit as much from Sprint as an average Juker, because the good one knows most the tricks. The average user doesn’t, but Sprint allows him/her to get a better chance of escaping due to eliminating one out of two important aspects of chasing, damage or distance.
>
> So, in that sense I see Sprint shrinking the Skill Gap.
> So no, same abilities for all players does not automatically mean a large skill gap. Because it’s about what an expert user can do, and how easily it can be done, what features there are that boost others, or limit the experts.
> For instance, I probably joked about it in this thread.
> What if there was an auto-aim / aim-bot / aim-lock-on feature? Press a button and you’d have a second or two time where they game aim’s perfectly for you and all you need to do is press the trigger.
>
> Edit: When I had homework, I’d usually clean, do the dishes, make the bed, before I did the homework.
> Now I’m spending time here instead of playing Divinity Original Sin 2, or rather, doing both.
You certainly seem to know your stuff, but I still don’t see how the sprinting here would lessen the skill gap when both players have it. I wouldn’t say that the aimbot comparison is a fair one, because there would still be more of a skill gap than if some players had weapons that killed quicker. I guess my argument is not about how much of a skill gap there is, but rather that sprinting doesn’t seem like it lessens that gap. I just don’t see the connection in what you just posted when other players can take the tactics into account.
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> > > > > 2533274825830455;14522:
> > > > > > 2533274863544717;14521:
> > > > > > I don’t believe that videos like this are subjective. Yes, there are some subjective arguments, but the speed comparison of Halo 3 vs. Halo 5 isn’t one of them.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think it would do us all a favor to distinguish what exactly is and what isn’t subjective.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sure enough, the observation that map sizes have increased to counteract the speed increase brought by sprint is not subjective. Anyone can replicate the experiment in that video, and arrive at the same conclusion. However, what is subjective is whether this is, or isn’t a bad thing.
> > > > >
> > > > > We can discuss the effects of sprint on gameplay in an objective way. That’s productive, and important, and it helps us understand the mechanic, but it’s just cataloging facts and conjectures about sprint. Ultimately, we have to face the question: what does that all mean for the player experience? And this question has no right answer. It depends on what any one of us wants from the game.
> > > >
> > > > It is interesting that sprint slows down gameplay, but I guess you are in a non-combative state for the most part. This is also conjecture, but I think that sprint has become so common in shooters, that it could hurt a game to not include it.
> >
> > I wouldn’t say that overwatch is a fair comparison, or the DOOM was successful at all. I couldn’t find games within the first two weeks. Obviously, we can’t say this is based on movement systems, but it still didn’t prove that an old schoolish arena game is clearly superior over games with sprint. I don’t think there is anything I can add that I haven’t said already on this thread, but I believe that sprint was a good idea to implement based on market trends and the relative popularity of Halo compared to other games. There are many factors at play when predicting a game’s success.
>
> Why isn’t Overwatch a good comparison?? Your reasons?Overwatch might not be a pure Arena FPS, I acknowledge that but it definitely has elements of one… And I’m not even talking about if it’s a arena type, loadouts type or character type anyways, that wasn’t the point. The point was, You stated that modern FPS without a sprint animation might hurt it’s sales, popularity etc. I gave an example of a new, modern FPS (Overwatch) that has done extremely well in both sales and in popularity and it has no sprint animation (save 1 character) So unless you can gave me a reason that I haven’t thought of as too why it’s not a good comparison, Overwatch has proved your statement otherwise.
>
> DOOM wasn’t successful at all??? Your kidding right?? Please tell me your kidding… It was nominated for 4 video game awards Source Including game of the year I might add, no small feat. It won 2 awards for best action game and best soundtrack. Just as a side note, in the other two categories that it lost in, game of the year and best game Direction, it lost to Overwatch. DOOM did extremely well in sales and was hailed by the majority of old Doom fans, non Doom fans and reviewers alike. It didn’t sustain popularity as well, this is true, as the multiplayer had a lot of flaws when it first launched which hurt a lot. They have now corrected that and it is a lot better but the damage was done. In this day and age if a game doesn’t launch right odds are it’s going to hurt the population big time as we all are aware (looking at you TMCC) Even if the multiplayer didn’t have flaws at lunch, I do think it wouldn’t have been crazy popular as the multiplayer portion of the game definitely had some flaws and lacked some polish I think, but it would have done a heck of a lot better than what it did if it was right from the get-go though.
>
> Personally I don’t mind DOOMs multiplayer now at all. Some interesting game modes, but to me they went too much the load out route with it when they should of went pure Arena style like they used to be. It would seem the majority of people on forms and social media agree with me. That aside I have yet to hear one bad thing or person complain about Dooms single player campaign and the game’s mechanics.
>
> I can understand the thinking behind 343 / Microsoft implementing a Sprint animation in Halo 4, I can and I don’t fault them for that or trying. But ultimately it was the wrong choice and we all know it, as Halo 4 is easily the least popular Halo game as a whole by far. Hence all the numerous changes in Halo 5 a lot for the better I might add. Ever since Halo has gone away from its original core gameplay it hasn’t done as well like it or not and that’s a fact. Now there could be numerous reasons as to why it’s not and I’m not going to sit here and say it’s only because of sprint either as I know that isn’t true.
>
> One of the worst trends (other than microtransactions but that’s another whole topic) is ADS style zooming. Halo had an amazing, and unique I might add, zooming style that could have been easily updated and looked amazing. Instead, 343I decided to get rid of it for this generic ADS style zooming system which in my opinion adds absolutely nothing to the game other than it makes it look like every other FPS. You want you game to stand out not blend in with the crowd. This is a perfect example of something that didn’t need to be changed at all. Why did 343I change this??? … Well, the only answer I can come up with is they were following the market trends, which hasn’t exactly paid off… you’d think after Halo 4 they would have learned this.
>
> What I do know is that ever since Halo has changed its core mechanics, it’s not as popular (I have been playing since Halo CE, got it the first month it was out, so I’ve been around for a while lol) So to me the smart thing to do would be to go back to more of a Halo 1-3 style and see how well it gets received. I don’t hate Halo 5 core mechanics at all I might add, but at the end of the day companies are in this business to make money. If going back might and there’s a lot of evidence that says it will, make you more money, then why not go back to a style what made you the most money. They have now tried following the trends, maybe they should start setting them again. Unless they do a really poor job on the game I can’t see it selling worse than Halo 5 so I don’t know what they have to lose. If it doesn’t do as well, well now you know, and it will put to rest a lot of discussions like this. Then, you can go back to more of a Halo 5 style or something else if they wish.
>
> Halo used to start trends… now, it just seems to follow them and that makes me sad
Sorry I had to quote the whole thing because I couldn’t partition it for some reason. Overwatch is an unfair comparison because it has numerous characters that have specific acceleration/traversal mechanics that are designed to give characters advantages in specific situations. It’s designed for certain characters to take less skill to use as well, narrowing that skill gap very much with asymmetrical abilities. That is why I think it’s an unfair comparison. I explained why DOOM failed already. A game can get great reviews, but people still have to play it and buy it. Multiplayer was dead within a month, so that is what I am mainly referring to. That being said, I did like the single player.
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> > 2533274806427910;14558:
> > Obviously, it doesn’t. If seven years of debating isn’t going to convince people, why bother wasting more of your time explaining to people when they could just look up why a portion of the community dislike said mechanic?
>
> But if you can’t be bothered to explain at all, why say anything? There’s nothing wrong with staying silent if you feel like you’ve said everything meaningful you can and don’t want to repeat yourself. I’ve been less vocal about sprint for a few years already because I got tired of repeating the same things.
Part of me has faith that some would stop and understand why others hate Sprint, and not be labeled as being “nostalgia-blinded” or hating change; those claims couldn’t be any further from the truth - if they were, Halo 2 would have sold poorly, because it was clearly a departure from what Halo: CE was from a design perspective. Then I realize that it’s futile, and even if you present your argument professionally, they’re still going to regurgitating whatever they stated before.
> It’s not like I wouldn’t know how bad Waypoint can be. I’ve definitely had plenty of healthydiscussions before, though. Also, I have to admit that now I think my comment might have been a bit of an overreaction.
Mine was also hyperbolic, but I still can’t remember when I actually had an intelligent conversion with someone, other than you. And seeing how you most likely read my posts from around 2014-2015, you know that I’m no stranger when it comes to heated debates (not to be confused with inflammatory ones). I took a long break from this forum, resided in Team Beyond because they have a good grasp of competitive Halo.
> My disagreement was purely with the notion of “objectively good”, which is an oxymoron.
In the case of video game mechanics, I can’t argue that.
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> > > IMO, the best feeling Halo game released in the last couple of years is the DOOM multiplayer. Obviously there are parts of it that wouldn’t transition well to a Halo game, but the general movement is streets ahead of Halo 5. I think that Clamber is implemented better, and the double jump is a really interesting tool that I think could work really well in a Halo game.
> >
> > It sounds like I really need to try DOOM out. There are so many saying good things about it. I think it bodes well for the future of a Halo with no Sprint. Especially since we already know that 343 dev have used mechanics from other popular games to influence them.
>
> Ive honestly only heard good things from others about the campaign and i agree with them, it is very good. Multiplayer in it is a different story. Its very fast paced, even without sprint, like quake or unreal but it felt very shallow and boring overall to me. This is based on the extremelly small amount of time i played the MP in it so take that as you will.
I’d agree with a lot of that, and the only real reason I brought it up is because of the movement in the game. The way that the game implemented loadouts in its multiplayer doesn’t feel that great, and overall I’d say that the multiplayer is lacking, but the movement is superb. DOOM movement with Halo 5 weapon sandbox and Halo 2/Halo 3 map design sounds like what I want Halo 6 to be.
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> > > 2535441687762024;14539:
> > > A testament to why we need sprint is the Halo 3 playlist that was going on. It just doesn’t work in 2016/2017…
> >
> > You’re seriously basing your opinion, just on one playlist, and not the actual game that wasn’t built around Sprint? Wow. Just, wow.
>
> Stop bashing other peoples opinions because you dont agree. I, and a large majority of Halo fans, want sprint to stay based off of a poll 343i, the developers of Halo by the way, conducted.
> I want it to stay because my favorite 3 games in the series have it and other PERSONAL reason surounding the feature.
>
> Here are a couple more OPINIONS about the subject. Feel free to bash them if you want.
>
> Does sprint make maps larger and give the illusion of speed while actually slowing down gameplay? Maybe, but who cares? The games are still fun.
> Oh, you dont agree? Maybe because your OPINION differs from my own.
>
> Does sprint allow people to get away and provide a more chaotic play environment? Maybe, but who cares? The games are still fun.
> Oh, you dont agree? Maybe because your OPINION differs from my own.
THANK YOU!!! Its legit so hard to just express OPINIONS nowadays… Ridiculous
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> > > 2533274806427910;14540:
> > > > 2535441687762024;14539:
> > > > A testament to why we need sprint is the Halo 3 playlist that was going on. It just doesn’t work in 2016/2017…
> > >
> > > You’re seriously basing your opinion, just on one playlist, and not the actual game that wasn’t built around Sprint? Wow. Just, wow.
> >
> > Stop bashing other peoples opinions because you dont agree. I, and a large majority of Halo fans, want sprint to stay based off of a poll 343i, the developers of Halo by the way, conducted.
> > I want it to stay because my favorite 3 games in the series have it and other PERSONAL reason surounding the feature.
> >
> > Here are a couple more OPINIONS about the subject. Feel free to bash them if you want.
> >
> > Does sprint make maps larger and give the illusion of speed while actually slowing down gameplay? Maybe, but who cares? The games are still fun.
> > Oh, you dont agree? Maybe because your OPINION differs from my own.
> >
> > Does sprint allow people to get away and provide a more chaotic play environment? Maybe, but who cares? The games are still fun.
> > Oh, you dont agree? Maybe because your OPINION differs from my own.
>
> THANK YOU!!! Its legit so hard to just express OPINIONS nowadays… Ridiculous
Disregarding the above heated discussion, would you be prepared to flesh your initial statement out?
Here are some questions I feel would help me understand what you built your opinion on:
1: How is one playlist void of mechanics the game was built upon, an indication of why sprint is needed?
2: How is the current year any justification of a game mechanic? Why doesn’t no-sprint work in the current year?
3: Are you implying that removing sprint will revert Halo back to Halo 3 in its entirety?
Is this a better approach to understanding your statement? Which is essentially treycen’s initial goal, though a blunt approach.
I don’t find it difficult to express my opinions.
However sometimes I may find it hard to explain my opinions, why I think the way I do aboit something. Generally I keep quiet if I can’t explain my opinions.
FallenKnight, I’ll get back to you sometime later.
> 2533274806427910;14572:
> Part of me has faith that some would stop and understand why others hate Sprint, and not be labeled as being “nostalgia-blinded” or hating change
I actually do understand why some people dont like it.
I dont know how to explain why i like sprint more. Its like asking me why my favorite color is green? Hell if i know, it just is. That doesnt mean that i will only ever like green, i just prefer it over the other colors. Probably not the best example but there you go lol.
Its really a win/win for me because i get what i want either way with 6 which is more Halo 
> 2533274795123910;14575:
> Generally I keep quiet if I can’t explain my opinions.
I dont feel that someones personal opinion always needs justification. As i said in the post above, i really dont know how to explain why i like sprint, i just do.
> 2533274816299345;14577:
> > 2533274795123910;14575:
> > Generally I keep quiet if I can’t explain my opinions.
>
> I dont feel that someones personal opinion always needs justification. As i said in the post above, i really dont know how to explain why i like sprint, i just do.
I don’t feel like I can contribute to a discussion if I can’t do anything more than tell my opinion, and then not do anything worthwhile with it. Which is why I genrally keep quiet, if I can’t go deeper than surface depth. Or I try to keep quiet.
Sharing an opinion online is risking having it questioned, both the opinion itself and the basis’ on which it is formed.
> 2533274816299345;14577:
> > 2533274795123910;14575:
> > Generally I keep quiet if I can’t explain my opinions.
>
> I dont feel that someones personal opinion always needs justification. As i said in the post above, i really dont know how to explain why i like sprint, i just do.
But if you don’t feel the need to justify your opinion, why express it unless someone specifically asks for it?
I think it’s fine to have an opinion without justification. We all have those. But if I can’t explain an opinion, there’s no value on expressing that opinion unless someone really wants to hear it. It holds no discussion value, it doesn’t offer any perspective. It’s just a statement that’s meaningless to everyone but me.
People’s need to express such opinions has always been especially strange to me in context of discussions like this one. Why participate in a discussion with something that offers no insight or doesn’t carry the discussion forward in any way?
When I want to express my opinion, I always try to find some way to explain it, to put it in some context that might be understantable by people who are not me. When I don’t have an explanation, there’s nothing for anyone to gain from me telling my opinion.
> 2535409816624774;14571:
> > 2533274815533909;14568:
> > > 2535409816624774;14537:
> > > > 2533274815533909;14530:
> > > > > 2535409816624774;14524:
> > > > > > 2533274825830455;14522:
> > > > > > > 2533274863544717;14521:
> > > > > > > I don’t believe that videos like this are subjective. Yes, there are some subjective arguments, but the speed comparison of Halo 3 vs. Halo 5 isn’t one of them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think it would do us all a favor to distinguish what exactly is and what isn’t subjective.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sure enough, the observation that map sizes have increased to counteract the speed increase brought by sprint is not subjective. Anyone can replicate the experiment in that video, and arrive at the same conclusion. However, what is subjective is whether this is, or isn’t a bad thing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We can discuss the effects of sprint on gameplay in an objective way. That’s productive, and important, and it helps us understand the mechanic, but it’s just cataloging facts and conjectures about sprint. Ultimately, we have to face the question: what does that all mean for the player experience? And this question has no right answer. It depends on what any one of us wants from the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is interesting that sprint slows down gameplay, but I guess you are in a non-combative state for the most part. This is also conjecture, but I think that sprint has become so common in shooters, that it could hurt a game to not include it.
> > >
> > > I wouldn’t say that overwatch is a fair comparison, or the DOOM was successful at all. I couldn’t find games within the first two weeks. Obviously, we can’t say this is based on movement systems, but it still didn’t prove that an old schoolish arena game is clearly superior over games with sprint. I don’t think there is anything I can add that I haven’t said already on this thread, but I believe that sprint was a good idea to implement based on market trends and the relative popularity of Halo compared to other games. There are many factors at play when predicting a game’s success.
> >
> > Why isn’t Overwatch a good comparison?? Your reasons?Overwatch might not be a pure Arena FPS, I acknowledge that but it definitely has elements of one… And I’m not even talking about if it’s a arena type, loadouts type or character type anyways, that wasn’t the point. The point was, You stated that modern FPS without a sprint animation might hurt it’s sales, popularity etc. I gave an example of a new, modern FPS (Overwatch) that has done extremely well in both sales and in popularity and it has no sprint animation (save 1 character) So unless you can gave me a reason that I haven’t thought of as too why it’s not a good comparison, Overwatch has proved your statement otherwise.
> >
> > DOOM wasn’t successful at all??? Your kidding right?? Please tell me your kidding… It was nominated for 4 video game awards Source Including game of the year I might add, no small feat. It won 2 awards for best action game and best soundtrack. Just as a side note, in the other two categories that it lost in, game of the year and best game Direction, it lost to Overwatch. DOOM did extremely well in sales and was hailed by the majority of old Doom fans, non Doom fans and reviewers alike. It didn’t sustain popularity as well, this is true, as the multiplayer had a lot of flaws when it first launched which hurt a lot. They have now corrected that and it is a lot better but the damage was done. In this day and age if a game doesn’t launch right odds are it’s going to hurt the population big time as we all are aware (looking at you TMCC) Even if the multiplayer didn’t have flaws at lunch, I do think it wouldn’t have been crazy popular as the multiplayer portion of the game definitely had some flaws and lacked some polish I think, but it would have done a heck of a lot better than what it did if it was right from the get-go though.
>
> Sorry I had to quote the whole thing because I couldn’t partition it for some reason. Overwatch is an unfair comparison because it has numerous characters that have specific acceleration/traversal mechanics that are designed to give characters advantages in specific situations. It’s designed for certain characters to take less skill to use as well, narrowing that skill gap very much with asymmetrical abilities. That is why I think it’s an unfair comparison. I explained why DOOM failed already. A game can get great reviews, but people still have to play it and buy it. Multiplayer was dead within a month, so that is what I am mainly referring to. That being said, I did like the single player.
No worries man.
Well, that’s interesting on Overwatch, I don’t think I knew/realized that about the characters but I still don’t see how any of that is relevant too what we’re talking about. You originally said (not a direct quote here) that you’re glad Halo was following the market trend of adding a sprint animation because if it didn’t you don’t think it would be successful or as successful as a game that didn’t have a sprint animation. We’re only talking about the sprint animation here… Overwatch, is a new, modem game that decided not to use a sprint animation. It doesn’t matter that it’s character base, arena-based or anything like that. It’s a FPS that didn’t follow the market trend because it didn’t have a Sprint animation. I’m sorry, but I don’t see how you can’t compare the two. By your previous statement, it falls into exactly what you were saying.
Doom wasn’t successful?? Well, as if July 2017, it’s been confirmed that it has sold over 2 million copies on PC alone! Source It has also sold over a million copies AT LEAST on Xbox One and PS4 (don’t have the source at the moment, can’t find it but saw it earlier, but I’ll get it if ya want) I don’t know about you, but that sounds like a pretty successful game to me.
Yes, multiplayer wasn’t as good as I acknowledged earlier or as polished as it should have been and they have corrected a lot of that since now but the damage was done. I would be surprised if Bethesda doesn’t change or fix a lot of the multiplayer in the next Doom game as it sounds like they have heard people’s complaints about it… Regardless, that’s irrelevant in this conversation. The facts are DOOM as a whole, was received well by the majority of Doom fans, non fans and reviewers alike and has sold very well. So I ask again, how was DOOM not successful?
So, as I stated in my original post you said, you thought Halo should follow the market trend and have a sprint animation as games that don’t have it wouldn’t be anywhere nearly as successful, if at all. Doom and Overwatch are two new FPS that didn’t follow the market trend with having a sprint animation and have been very successful as a whole.
> 2535441687762024;14574:
> > 2533274816299345;14542:
> > > 2533274806427910;14540:
> > > > 2535441687762024;14539:
> > > > A testament to why we need sprint is the Halo 3 playlist that was going on. It just doesn’t work in 2016/2017…
> > >
> > > You’re seriously basing your opinion, just on one playlist, and not the actual game that wasn’t built around Sprint? Wow. Just, wow.
> >
> > Stop bashing other peoples opinions because you dont agree. I, and a large majority of Halo fans, want sprint to stay based off of a poll 343i, the developers of Halo by the way, conducted.
> > I want it to stay because my favorite 3 games in the series have it and other PERSONAL reason surounding the feature.
> >
> > Here are a couple more OPINIONS about the subject. Feel free to bash them if you want.
> >
> > Does sprint make maps larger and give the illusion of speed while actually slowing down gameplay? Maybe, but who cares? The games are still fun.
> > Oh, you dont agree? Maybe because your OPINION differs from my own.
> >
> > Does sprint allow people to get away and provide a more chaotic play environment? Maybe, but who cares? The games are still fun.
> > Oh, you dont agree? Maybe because your OPINION differs from my own.
>
> THANK YOU!!! Its legit so hard to just express OPINIONS nowadays… Ridiculous
No one said you couldn’t express your opinion, but you’re just basing your perspective on a classic playlist on Halo 5, and not Halo 3, which wasn’t BUILT around Sprint. I don’t know how many times I have to say it.
> 2533274825830455;14579:
> > 2533274816299345;14577:
> > > 2533274795123910;14575:
> > > Generally I keep quiet if I can’t explain my opinions.
> >
> > I dont feel that someones personal opinion always needs justification. As i said in the post above, i really dont know how to explain why i like sprint, i just do.
>
> But if you don’t feel the need to justify your opinion, why express it unless someone specifically asks for it?
>
> I think it’s fine to have an opinion without justification. We all have those. But if I can’t explain an opinion, there’s no value on expressing that opinion unless someone really wants to hear it. It holds no discussion value, it doesn’t offer any perspective. It’s just a statement that’s meaningless to everyone but me.
>
> People’s need to express such opinions has always been especially strange to me in context of discussions like this one. Why participate in a discussion with something that offers no insight or doesn’t carry the discussion forward in any way?
>
> When I want to express my opinion, I always try to find some way to explain it, to put it in some context that might be understantable by people who are not me. When I don’t have an explanation, there’s nothing for anyone to gain from me telling my opinion.
This is a debate, and in debates, you are at least encouraged to justify your opinion when you choose one of two sides. Saying “I like/dislike this mechanic” without any reasonable arguments doesn’t contribute to the debate much, because it doesn’t mean anything to anyone.
I personally love sprint. It makes the gameplay fast paced. The walking speeds in H3 were brutal. (my fav halo tho)
> 2533274816299345;14576:
> > 2533274806427910;14572:
> > Part of me has faith that some would stop and understand why others hate Sprint, and not be labeled as being “nostalgia-blinded” or hating change
>
> I actually do understand why some people dont like it.
> I dont know how to explain why i like sprint more. Its like asking me why my favorite color is green? Hell if i know, it just is. That doesnt mean that i will only ever like green, i just prefer it over the other colors. Probably not the best example but there you go lol.
> Its really a win/win for me because i get what i want either way with 6 which is more Halo
Even with colours you can make rational, scientifically backed discussions on the subject.
Let’s take for instance the team colours in game. Red Vs Blue. Now everyone has their own preference on this, but it turns out that these colours aren’t even. In MP FPS games, Red team has the advantage. (Actually, Red the advantage in more areas, including real life). In a study done, Red would win in a 55% to 45% split. It’s all down to psychology and our mind’s seeing red as aggressive. It affects how we approach someone wearing red. When it’s all looked at we should really be dropping red team colours from our games and going with practically any other colours.
That’s an extremely deep conversation that came be had out of someone just stating colour they prefer.
My point? even if you aren’t aware of the affects certain mechanics (sprint or colour) have on us on a psychological level, that doesn’t mean there isn’t a very deep debate to be had there.