The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > It’s crazy to think how big this thread got without 343 jumping in at all.
> >
> > I really miss Bungie.
>
> It’s crazy to think this thread just passed one year old and it’s 714 pages and yea 343 still just doesn’t comment.
>
> That said Bungie is doing their own share of shady stuff with Destiny. Idk I just want someone who’s big on classic halo in charge instead of a bunch of people who seem to think sprint is the future.
>
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> > > > > > …no, remove Sprint but increase the base movement speed marginally, back up to Halo 2 or so.
> > > > >
> > > > > I hate to repeat myself constantly, but the base movement speed in Halo 5 is already 15% faster than in Halo 2. The base movement speed is the least of Halo 5’s issues (unless one thinks it’s too fast).
> > > >
> > > > It is?
> > > > It definitely doesn’t feel that way, but I suppose that’s due to the map design then.
> > > > My point is that a bump in player speed (within reason) would be preferable to Sprint (Halo 5 w/out Sprint > Halo 5 with Sprint imo), if the goal was to ‘increase the pace of the game’.
> > > > The fact that Halo 5 has increased the base movement speed in addition to keeping Sprint goes back to my complaint about vehicles feeling even more useless, which I’m not a fan of.
> > >
> > > It is due to map design. After all, the maps have been designed with the understanding that players will be sprinting, which is 30% faster than the base movement speed.
> >
> > Really? Haven’t really played much Halo 5 so can’t really judge and not tested it myself. That is however quite a lot less than Halo4, Can’t remember the exact number but know it was over 50% in that game, might have even been 60%. Faster Base movement, slower Sprint, slower sprint acceleration. Seems like 343 did actually listen somewhat to the feedback. Though combining Sprint with thrusters does somewhat negate some of the balancing done to sprint.
> >
> > Halo Reach in Particular played great at 120% movement speed, no sprint. But I did always have concerns that the improvements such as better staffing would be lost if aim assist and strafe acceleration were altered to make it more accessible for mainstream play to accommodate the increased speed.
>
> Halo 4 as well played much better once the DMR wasn’t a crutch cannon that beat literally everything and they bumped up base movement speed there as well.

10k population is 343’s future.

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> > Im seeing a lot of dubious claims from both sides here in regarding which sold more or which brought in more casual players. If you cant provide evidence or a source for your figures dont bring it up. Dont say that because classic halo was more simple it brought in more casual players you dont know the state of casual players in any halo game.
> >
> > While halo 2 and 3 did have a large population base (population.pdf - Google Drive), you cant say that because they were simple that casual players like simpler gameplay mechanics(meaning casuals prefer simpler gameplay). A counter argument is the fact that COD sold more games and has consistently sold more games than halo since 2009 (http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Call+of+duty). Casual players play whatever is fun.
>
> I don’t necessarily disagree with you. However, there is nothing wrong with asking the question why have some games become so popular, while others have lost their popularity. As a gamer I play almost all the shooters that come along. But the best I stick with for long period of time (years). It is just my observation and speculation. But I have asked myself what has drawn so many people to COD, then Destiny and now to OverWatch? What separates them from Halo? specifically Halo 5? As I have played them it it has become quite clear. Halo 5 is significantly harder to play than the others(Gears 4 excluded). You can’t just sit down and play H5 and be immediately good if you are not a hardcore gamer. I’m speaking about the casuals. The average casual gamer gets slaughter in Halo for a while until the get past the learning curve. I’ve seen it more times than I can count in playing arena. they must play often to keep their skills up, which casuals don’t do for any number of reasons( family, job, school, other activities).Now by comparison, Look at COD, Destiny and Overwatch? All three you can jump into and almost immediately start having fun with no practice. Destiny is mostly PvE, but still thats also the point as well. Casuals can jump into all three (Infinite War excluded) and have fun an hour here and an hour there. I’m a pretty hardcore gamer. Its pretty much my only hobby. So when I played these other games it become quickly clear why people are attracted to the games. It is my observation it comes down to a few very simple things. casuals are simply going to play games that have a lower learning curve smaller skill gap, combined with lots of customization. Those three things Prior CODs, Destiny and Overwatch currently have that H5 does not. I don’think that can be underestimated. Even if you compare Halo 4-9 million copies sold
> to Halo 5 with 4 million confirmed copies sold(speculatively best case 6 million sold). Those same traits still show up- Halo 4 lower learning curve, smaller skill gap and lots of customization , both in loadouts and armor appearance. Thats not coincidence. Two would be coincidence, three is a pattern and we have at least 4 games. there is a distinct pattern. I don’t think that can be underestimated.

I would disagree with this.

Halo 4 sold well because halo was still riding off the bungie days. H5 came on the heels of h4 and the broken MCC.

H6 sales will be even lower. 343 is just losing people in general.

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> > Im seeing a lot of dubious claims from both sides here in regarding which sold more or which brought in more casual players. If you cant provide evidence or a source for your figures dont bring it up. Dont say that because classic halo was more simple it brought in more casual players you dont know the state of casual players in any halo game.
> >
> > While halo 2 and 3 did have a large population base (population.pdf - Google Drive), you cant say that because they were simple that casual players like simpler gameplay mechanics(meaning casuals prefer simpler gameplay). A counter argument is the fact that COD sold more games and has consistently sold more games than halo since 2009 (http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Call+of+duty). Casual players play whatever is fun.
>
> I don’t necessarily disagree with you. However, there is nothing wrong with asking the question why have some games become so popular, while others have lost their popularity. As a gamer I play almost all the shooters that come along. But the best I stick with for long period of time (years). It is just my observation and speculation. But I have asked myself what has drawn so many people to COD, then Destiny and now to OverWatch? What separates them from Halo? specifically Halo 5? As I have played them it it has become quite clear. Halo 5 is significantly harder to play than the others(Gears 4 excluded). You can’t just sit down and play H5 and be immediately good if you are not a hardcore gamer. I’m speaking about the casuals. The average casual gamer gets slaughter in Halo for a while until the get past the learning curve. I’ve seen it more times than I can count in playing arena. they must play often to keep their skills up, which casuals don’t do for any number of reasons( family, job, school, other activities).Now by comparison, Look at COD, Destiny and Overwatch? All three you can jump into and almost immediately start having fun with no practice. Destiny is mostly PvE, but still thats also the point as well. Casuals can jump into all three (Infinite War excluded) and have fun an hour here and an hour there. I’m a pretty hardcore gamer. Its pretty much my only hobby. So when I played these other games it become quickly clear why people are attracted to the games. It is my observation it comes down to a few very simple things. casuals are simply going to play games that have a lower learning curve smaller skill gap, combined with lots of customization. Those three things Prior CODs, Destiny and Overwatch currently have that H5 does not. I don’think that can be underestimated. Even if you compare Halo 4-9 million copies sold
> to Halo 5 with 4 million confirmed copies sold(speculatively best case 6 million sold). Those same traits still show up- Halo 4 lower learning curve, smaller skill gap and lots of customization , both in loadouts and armor appearance. Thats not coincidence. Two would be coincidence, three is a pattern and we have at least 4 games. there is a distinct pattern. I don’t think that can be underestimated.

You definitely make good points as to why people play COD, Destiny and overwatch. I think youve hit some of the main points as to what makes a popular game, and obviously to any way else reading this there are other things like campaign, scale of multiplayer (eg the number of friends you can play with), competitive scene that contribute to a popular game.

I think some people would say that H5 is not that hard to play compared to H3 and yet H3 sold more than its successors. While i do think a games ease of access to casuals is a factor im not sure that its the main contributor for H5 selling 5 million compared to the classic games selling more.

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> > >
>
> You definitely make good points as to why people play COD, Destiny and overwatch. I think youve hit some of the main points as to what makes a popular game, and obviously to any way else reading this there are other things like campaign, scale of multiplayer (eg the number of friends you can play with), competitive scene that contribute to a popular game.
>
> I think some people would say that H5 is not that hard to play compared to H3 and yet H3 sold more than its successors. While i do think a games ease of access to casuals is a factor im not sure that its the main contributor for H5 selling 5 million compared to the classic games selling more.

If I may, I’d like to throw a few of my thoughts in here. I consider myself somewhere between casual and hardcore when it comes to Halo. I’m an older gamer… but I game A. Lot. So I tend to put myself in that same ‘category’ no matter what game I play. That being said, I’m speaking only for myself, not other “casuals” or even… semi-casuals?

I found H5 gameplay to become boring and frustrating more quickly than any of the previous games. Even H4. What has made it boring IMO is something that’s been touched on here. Easy to learn, hard to master. What baffles me is why anyone would want to stray from that philosophy in the first place.

Depth of gameplay? This is so often used by ‘Nu-Halo’ fans to support not just sprint, but most of the new moves in the game. I actually believe it’d be a more accurate statement to call it complication of gameplay. How does adding a ton of push button mechanics add to depth? Maybe it depends on one’s interpretation of ‘depth’ but I don’t see a bunch of fluff mechanics adding depth… they simply change the encounters.

I mean the basic goal of any game/type is to kill enemies (human or AI controlled) and/or avoid being killed long enough to accomplish an objective. I can recall many games in H2, 3… where my team had to come up with intricate plans on getting the flag from our opponents (so many white knuckle games played on awesome maps like Midship). Not one single time in my many games played, while I was getting ready to jump into a lift and praying that my 'nade placement would be perfect and I could grab the flag and make it out… or while I was cautiously patrolling and hoping I’d catch the one who planned on getting in during the chaos of an attack to get our flag, did I ever think “this game could use more depth”. Nor did I ever think any of the gimmicky mechanics (sprint included) actually added any depth.

Did they change how the game played? Yes. They had an impact on the flow of gameplay, but IMO, it’s the only thing they had any impact on. Pace? Movement speed? No… those are sought after and attained by the devs. They’re nigh predetermined. The only way anyone is going to find a game’s pace to be faster, or feel like they’re moving faster is if the mechanic which promotes that is added after the game ships and no other changes are made to compensate for it, simple as that.

I think those who say all these mechanics (sprint included) ‘add depth’ are using it to displace complexity. I find that before we had all the push button moves, the encounters were actually more intense and more spontaneous. This isn’t perfect, but I can’t think of a better way to say it ATM. Before sprint and all the fluff mechanics, you had to think and plan 3 moves ahead of your opponents… now you have to think 3 button push moves. It’s not that encounters feel predictable, but it kind of feels like all these mechanics that mean to ‘spice it up’ also ‘dumb it down’ in a way. It feels pre-programmed to a degree. Maybe I’m just trying to say I like the less is more approach? I’d rather think outside the buttons.

And speaking of pushing buttons, I think about it like this. The vast majority of the time I play… any game… not just Halo, I want to move as fast as possible to get where I want. I mean who wouldn’t? So why should it be that I need to push a silly button to do that? Of course, there are times when I may want a more tactful and/or stealthy approach. But those times are usually much less frequent in occurrence. Doesn’t it seem more logical and less intrusive, less hassle to be required to push a button in order to use a mechanic that is used less often? But wait, that’s already there… it’s crouching-crouch walking. I mean before we had sprint, it was there and it worked beautifully and made sense. Want to slow down and be more tactful and stealthy? Crouch walk. Now it’s like we have 3 different speeds, in a way. Crouch walking being the slowest, normal movement which varies with thumbstick position and sprinting… and we have to push a button to attain 2 of them. Jeez, I sure hope someone doesn’t get the bright idea for a jog mechanic to change things up. I can hear it now.

‘Hey fans, we’ve decided for the next game in the series that there will be even more available Spartan speeds for traversal! You’ll still have a crouch walking button for slower tactful approaches, but now your thumbstick movement will start off with a slow “saunter” and end with a pace we’re calling “brisk”. You’ll click your thumbstick to enter “jog” mode and you will click and hold it to sprint. We think this will add more “depth” to the gameplay…’

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> Id rather keep sprint.

Absolutely.

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If the melee option was never in Halo 3, people would hate it if it was implemented now, because “it’s just not Halo”. But Halo was there, so everybody is fine with it.

Games can change. If we can’t run from the enemy when we’re in danger, but we would just take a walk… I don’t know man. That would be really weird.

14350

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> If you don’t like sprint then don’t use sprint!!

That’s like saying if you don’t like to jump then don’t jump!

What happens if I reach a ledge or a gap?

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> If the melee option was never in Halo 3, people would hate it if it was implemented now, because “it’s just not Halo”. But Halo was there, so everybody is fine with it.
>
> Games can change. If we can’t run from the enemy when we’re in danger, but we would just take a walk… I don’t know man. That would be really weird.

What melee option? Like regular melee? If melee was removed in Halo 3 people would hate it because that means you have zero methods to fight back if you find yourself out of a weapon and the damage of automatic weapons can’t be boosted through melee (or gun-punch as people call it). More importantly, every action outside of equipment would put you on the radar or make a loud noise in some way. Stealth would be nigh-useless because every gun puts you on the radar. People complained enough when melee was nerfed in Halo Reach (bleedthrough).

It’s not that it’s “not just Halo”, it’s a complete detriment to the game.

No one said games couldn’t change. But not all change is good change.

And since when were you incapable of running from the enemy prior to Sprint? Back in those days you were capable of retreating and fighting back at the same time.

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> > 2533274920070188;14349:
> > If the melee option was never in Halo 3, people would hate it if it was implemented now, because “it’s just not Halo”. But Halo was there, so everybody is fine with it.
> >
> > Games can change. If we can’t run from the enemy when we’re in danger, but we would just take a walk… I don’t know man. That would be really weird.
>
> What melee option? Like regular melee? If melee was removed in Halo 3 people would hate it because that means you have zero methods to fight back if you find yourself out of a weapon and the damage of automatic weapons can’t be boosted through melee (or gun-punch as people call it). More importantly, every action outside of equipment would put you on the radar or make a loud noise in some way. Stealth would be nigh-useless because every gun puts you on the radar.
>
> It’s not that it’s “not just Halo”, it’s a complete detriment to the game.
>
> No one said games couldn’t change. But not all change is good change.
>
> And since when were you incapable of running from the enemy prior to Sprint? Back in those days you were capable of retreating and fighting back at the same time.

What I’m saying is many people who don’t like sprint, hate it because of nostalgic reasons. That’s why I gave the melee example.

I understand weird things like spartan charge, thruster pack or ground pound are maybe too much. But giving an enemy a punch, running away or towards the enemy , or holding a ledge when you try to clim ontop of something are things humans can do already. I don’t know how in the future those things would be impossible to do.

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> > > If the melee option was never in Halo 3, people would hate it if it was implemented now, because “it’s just not Halo”. But Halo was there, so everybody is fine with it.
> > >
> > > Games can change. If we can’t run from the enemy when we’re in danger, but we would just take a walk… I don’t know man. That would be really weird.
> >
> > What melee option? Like regular melee? If melee was removed in Halo 3 people would hate it because that means you have zero methods to fight back if you find yourself out of a weapon and the damage of automatic weapons can’t be boosted through melee (or gun-punch as people call it). More importantly, every action outside of equipment would put you on the radar or make a loud noise in some way. Stealth would be nigh-useless because every gun puts you on the radar.
> >
> > It’s not that it’s “not just Halo”, it’s a complete detriment to the game.
> >
> > No one said games couldn’t change. But not all change is good change.
> >
> > And since when were you incapable of running from the enemy prior to Sprint? Back in those days you were capable of retreating and fighting back at the same time.
>
> What I’m saying is many people who don’t like sprint, hate it because of nostalgic reasons. That’s why I gave the melee example.
>
> I understand weird things like spartan charge, thruster pack or ground pound are maybe too much. But giving an enemy a punch, running away or towards the enemy , or holding a ledge when you try to clim ontop of something are things humans can do already. I don’t know how in the future those things would be impossible to do.

A lot, and I do mean a lot of comments in this thread alone shows that Sprint isn’t hated simply for nostalgia reasons. Just like with the melee example, It’s not that it’s “not just Halo”, it’s a detriment to the game. There are very few positives that I’ve seen come from Sprint in terms of game play.

If we’re trying to bring in realism to gameplay, then shouldn’t Spartans have the ability to run and shoot at the same time? Apparently that was removed the further in the future we went. Spartans also shouldn’t immediately die when they enter a few feet of water as well.

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> > > If the melee option was never in Halo 3, people would hate it if it was implemented now, because “it’s just not Halo”. But Halo was there, so everybody is fine with it.
> > >
> > > Games can change. If we can’t run from the enemy when we’re in danger, but we would just take a walk… I don’t know man. That would be really weird.
> >
> > What melee option? Like regular melee? If melee was removed in Halo 3 people would hate it because that means you have zero methods to fight back if you find yourself out of a weapon and the damage of automatic weapons can’t be boosted through melee (or gun-punch as people call it). More importantly, every action outside of equipment would put you on the radar or make a loud noise in some way. Stealth would be nigh-useless because every gun puts you on the radar.
> >
> > It’s not that it’s “not just Halo”, it’s a complete detriment to the game.
> >
> > No one said games couldn’t change. But not all change is good change.
> >
> > And since when were you incapable of running from the enemy prior to Sprint? Back in those days you were capable of retreating and fighting back at the same time.
>
> What I’m saying is many people who don’t like sprint, hate it because of nostalgic reasons. That’s why I gave the melee example.
>
> I understand weird things like spartan charge, thruster pack or ground pound are maybe too much. But giving an enemy a punch, running away or towards the enemy , or holding a ledge when you try to clim ontop of something are things humans can do already. I don’t know how in the future those things would be impossible to do.

Sounds like that would be the majority of anti-sprinters, no? Take five random pages from this thread and see if you can find even three anti-sprinters who oppose sprint because it wasn’t because it wasn’t in Halo CE-Halo 3: ODST.

So what if we can and can’t do it in real life, a game is a series of set of rules which dictate how the game play in order to provide a specific experience.
Many find sprint entirely useless, or a detriment to the set of rules, because it doesn’t add anything worthwhile to that experience or it worsen the experience.
Do you think Spartans can’t go prone?

14355

I don’t think people understand how Sprint works in Halo. Halo 1-3 you were always sprinting. You’re a 7 ft. tall super soldier that’s been augmented, given armor that increases strength and speed, and sees everything 2-3 seconds slower than most humans. (It’s a fact. It’s the reason why Locke was using his thrusters while fighting the Chief. So he could fight on Chiefs level.)

In Halo Reach you aren’t playing as one of those soldiers anymore. You aren’t an SII, you’re an SIII. Slightly smaller, and not as fast. Halo 4-5 you are slightly augmented Marine in power armor who uses their thrusters as a sprint booster. I don’t like that the sprint is infinite, that could be taken away, but taking it away completely no. Also you are playing in a canon Wargames system. So you are gonna get sprint, and all the other abilities Spartans have been able to do for years.

Only things I don’t like is, thruster packs (Because it’s stupid when you’re about to get a kill, and they cause dodge and hide way to easily. Makes half of the encounters in this game a win win situation.), Ground pound which makes no sense on how there is splash damage cause you’re just punching the ground and killing people like a Titan from Destiny can do with his Striker ability. Spartan Charge, because for some reason we needed a another ranged melee attack. Instead of complaining about sprint which was going to be added into Halo at some point in time, there are other things they makes Halo’s multiplayer annoying, or not fun to play.

14356

> 2533274873349282;14355:
> I don’t think people understand how Sprint works in Halo. Halo 1-3 you were always sprinting. You’re a 7 ft. tall super soldier that’s been augmented, given armor that increases strength and speed, and sees everything 2-3 seconds slower than most humans. (It’s a fact. It’s the reason why Locke was using his thrusters while fighting the Chief. So he could fight on Chiefs level.)
>
> In Halo Reach you aren’t playing as one of those soldiers anymore. You aren’t an SII, you’re an SIII. Slightly smaller, and not as fast. Halo 4-5 you are slightly augmented Marine in power armor who uses their thrusters as a sprint booster. I don’t like that the sprint is infinite, that could be taken away, but taking it away completely no. Also you are playing in a canon Wargames system. So you are gonna get sprint, and all the other abilities Spartans have been able to do for years.
>
> Only things I don’t like is, thruster packs (Because it’s stupid when you’re about to get a kill, and they cause dodge and hide way to easily. Makes half of the encounters in this game a win win situation.), Ground pound which makes no sense on how there is splash damage cause you’re just punching the ground and killing people like a Titan from Destiny can do with his Striker ability. Spartan Charge, because for some reason we needed a another ranged melee attack. Instead of complaining about sprint which was going to be added into Halo at some point in time, there are other things they makes Halo’s multiplayer annoying, or not fun to play.

All this is doing is trying to justify it from a lore standpoint, when lore should not always dictate game mechanics.

Otherwise, we should be able to do backflips like Vale, slide under people like Locke, or just be capable of running and shooting at the same time like literally anyone.

14357

> 2533274873349282;14355:
> I don’t think people understand how Sprint works in Halo. Halo 1-3 you were always sprinting. You’re a 7 ft. tall super soldier that’s been augmented, given armor that increases strength and speed, and sees everything 2-3 seconds slower than most humans. (It’s a fact. It’s the reason why Locke was using his thrusters while fighting the Chief. So he could fight on Chiefs level.)
>
> In Halo Reach you aren’t playing as one of those soldiers anymore. You aren’t an SII, you’re an SIII. Slightly smaller, and not as fast. Halo 4-5 you are slightly augmented Marine in power armor who uses their thrusters as a sprint booster. I don’t like that the sprint is infinite, that could be taken away, but taking it away completely no. Also you are playing in a canon Wargames system. So you are gonna get sprint, and all the other abilities Spartans have been able to do for years.
>
> Only things I don’t like is, thruster packs (Because it’s stupid when you’re about to get a kill, and they cause dodge and hide way to easily. Makes half of the encounters in this game a win win situation.), Ground pound which makes no sense on how there is splash damage cause you’re just punching the ground and killing people like a Titan from Destiny can do with his Striker ability. Spartan Charge, because for some reason we needed a another ranged melee attack. Instead of complaining about sprint which was going to be added into Halo at some point in time, there are other things they makes Halo’s multiplayer annoying, or not fun to play.

Disregarding that it was added, why was it going to be added at some point in time? Because all shooters share the same end goal product? An identical ultimate experience?
Quake Champions has abilities akin to that of Overwatch I’ve come to understand. Is the next “thing going to be added anyway” going to bean overwatch style ability and class system? Then in Overwatch 2 sprint is going to be added universally because Sprint is in the end ultimate game goal.

Then, why don’t you go argument for what you don’t like, and not dictate what we should be arguing about based on your own priorities.

Furthermore, Canon explanations is a waste of time. i343 controll canon and gameplay, whatever they want to do in either, they can, and if one “has to influence the other” then it can easily be turned around to influence the other way.
You want a plausible canon explanation of how sprint suddenly could be cut? After the hypothetically came to the conclusion to cut sprint from the game?
In canon they’d describe it as a new armor which surpass the old gen 2 one in that it compensates body balance and allows the wearer to reach new higher speeds while retaining pinpoint accuracy.

Wait, turn it around, someone in the lore department thought it’s time to upgrade the mjolnir armor, it has a higher max speed and a balance system in place which allows users to aim with pin point accuracy while retaining their maximum speed. In gameplay the game designer interpret it as removing sprint.

14358

> 2535429632412730;14253:
> It’s crazy to think how big this thread got without 343 jumping in at all.
>
> I really miss Bungie.

I played Destiny these last few years. Bungie would only show up at the forums when people would praise their game. And don’t think for a second that Bungie would not have included sprint into Halo. Destiny has weird things like blink, triple jumps and unlimited sprint artifacts.

14359

> 2533274920070188;14358:
> > 2535429632412730;14253:
> > It’s crazy to think how big this thread got without 343 jumping in at all.
> >
> > I really miss Bungie.
>
> I played Destiny these last few years. Bungie would only show up at the forums when people would praise their game. And don’t think for a second that Bungie would not have included sprint into Halo. Destiny has weird things like blink, triple jumps and unlimited sprint artifacts.

Destiny has the luxury of being a new IP to do what it does, halo was already an established franchise. One franchise having x gameplay doesn’t mean they’d add that same gameplay to another. Biowares mass effect and dragon age franchises are both RPG games, but they play very different from each other in terms of gameplay.

furthermore, the original bungie(as in CE-H2 bungie) wouldn’t have included it cause their designers thought it a crutch(it’s in this thread here somewhere, direct tweet from twitter where someone asked about sprint in the original games and the developer specifically called it a “crutch” being why it wasn’t included). Reach bungie and even H3 bungie is where their direction started to change where halo went into its gameplay identity crisis. Not to mention Reach was a game giving the finger to the fans cause it was testing grounds for them and destiny since they were leaving after its launch.

14360

Sprint for me is a mechanic that is nice to have when the time is right. Though I personally find that not sprinting before entering and during combat is most effective, I also find traversing only by walking when not in combat does not cut it. You may argue that larger maps make walking feel too slow, but I prefer the larger maps over the smaller classic maps that feel so over-crowded, it becomes easy for enemies to engage you as soon as you reapawn.

14361

I like SPRINT

But I prefer I like SPRINT as halo 4

That it has a short duration and not very long, that spartan is more human

14362

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> > 2533274920070188;14358:
> > > 2535429632412730;14253:
> > > It’s crazy to think how big this thread got without 343 jumping in at all.
> > >
> > > I really miss Bungie.
> >
> > I played Destiny these last few years. Bungie would only show up at the forums when people would praise their game. And don’t think for a second that Bungie would not have included sprint into Halo. Destiny has weird things like blink, triple jumps and unlimited sprint artifacts.
>
> Destiny has the luxury of being a new IP to do what it does, halo was already an established franchise. One franchise having x gameplay doesn’t mean they’d add that same gameplay to another. Biowares mass effect and dragon age franchises are both RPG games, but they play very different from each other in terms of gameplay.
>
> furthermore, the original bungie(as in CE-H2 bungie) wouldn’t have included it cause their designers thought it a crutch(it’s in this thread here somewhere, direct tweet from twitter where someone asked about sprint in the original games and the developer specifically called it a “crutch” being why it wasn’t included). Reach bungie and even H3 bungie is where their direction started to change where halo went into its gameplay identity crisis. Not to mention Reach was a game giving the finger to the fans cause it was testing grounds for them and destiny since they were leaving after its launch.

Okay. What is precisely your point? I say Bungie would’ve included sprint into the game if they were still making Halo. You tell that Bungie changed and was testing for Destiny during Halo Reach. So maybe the original Bungie wouldn’t have included it, but if Bungie today would have made Halo 5, they would definitely have included it. Maybe even weirder things than 343I included into the game.

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> > You definitely make good points as to why people play COD, Destiny and overwatch. I think youve hit some of the main points as to what makes a popular game, and obviously to any way else reading this there are other things like campaign, scale of multiplayer (eg the number of friends you can play with), competitive scene that contribute to a popular game.
> >
> > I think some people would say that H5 is not that hard to play compared to H3 and yet H3 sold more than its successors. While i do think a games ease of access to casuals is a factor im not sure that its the main contributor for H5 selling 5 million compared to the classic games selling more.
>
> If I may, I’d like to throw a few of my thoughts in here. I consider myself somewhere between casual and hardcore when it comes to Halo. I’m an older gamer… but I game A. Lot. So I tend to put myself in that same ‘category’ no matter what game I play. That being said, I’m speaking only for myself, not other “casuals” or even… semi-casuals?
>
> I found H5 gameplay to become boring and frustrating more quickly than any of the previous games. Even H4. What has made it boring IMO is something that’s been touched on here. Easy to learn, hard to master. What baffles me is why anyone would want to stray from that philosophy in the first place.
>
> Depth of gameplay? This is so often used by ‘Nu-Halo’ fans to support not just sprint, but most of the new moves in the game. I actually believe it’d be a more accurate statement to call it complication of gameplay. How does adding a ton of push button mechanics add to depth? Maybe it depends on one’s interpretation of ‘depth’ but I don’t see a bunch of fluff mechanics adding depth… they simply change the encounters.
>
> I mean the basic goal of any game/type is to kill enemies (human or AI controlled) and/or avoid being killed long enough to accomplish an objective. I can recall many games in H2, 3… where my team had to come up with intricate plans on getting the flag from our opponents (so many white knuckle games played on awesome maps like Midship). Not one single time in my many games played, while I was getting ready to jump into a lift and praying that my 'nade placement would be perfect and I could grab the flag and make it out… or while I was cautiously patrolling and hoping I’d catch the one who planned on getting in during the chaos of an attack to get our flag, did I ever think “this game could use more depth”. Nor did I ever think any of the gimmicky mechanics (sprint included) actually added any depth.
>
> Did they change how the game played? Yes. They had an impact on the flow of gameplay, but IMO, it’s the only thing they had any impact on. Pace? Movement speed? No… those are sought after and attained by the devs. They’re nigh predetermined. The only way anyone is going to find a game’s pace to be faster, or feel like they’re moving faster is if the mechanic which promotes that is added after the game ships and no other changes are made to compensate for it, simple as that.
>
> I think those who say all these mechanics (sprint included) ‘add depth’ are using it to displace complexity. I find that before we had all the push button moves, the encounters were actually more intense and more spontaneous. This isn’t perfect, but I can’t think of a better way to say it ATM. Before sprint and all the fluff mechanics, you had to think and plan 3 moves ahead of your opponents… now you have to think 3 button push moves. It’s not that encounters feel predictable, but it kind of feels like all these mechanics that mean to ‘spice it up’ also ‘dumb it down’ in a way. It feels pre-programmed to a degree. Maybe I’m just trying to say I like the less is more approach? I’d rather think outside the buttons.
>
> And speaking of pushing buttons, I think about it like this. The vast majority of the time I play… any game… not just Halo, I want to move as fast as possible to get where I want. I mean who wouldn’t? So why should it be that I need to push a silly button to do that? Of course, there are times when I may want a more tactful and/or stealthy approach. But those times are usually much less frequent in occurrence. Doesn’t it seem more logical and less intrusive, less hassle to be required to push a button in order to use a mechanic that is used less often? But wait, that’s already there… it’s crouching-crouch walking. I mean before we had sprint, it was there and it worked beautifully and made sense. Want to slow down and be more tactful and stealthy? Crouch walk. Now it’s like we have 3 different speeds, in a way. Crouch walking being the slowest, normal movement which varies with thumbstick position and sprinting… and we have to push a button to attain 2 of them. Jeez, I sure hope someone doesn’t get the bright idea for a jog mechanic to change things up. I can hear it now.
>
> ‘Hey fans, we’ve decided for the next game in the series that there will be even more available Spartan speeds for traversal! You’ll still have a crouch walking button for slower tactful approaches, but now your thumbstick movement will start off with a slow “saunter” and end with a pace we’re calling “brisk”. You’ll click your thumbstick to enter “jog” mode and you will click and hold it to sprint. We think this will add more “depth” to the gameplay…’

I see were your coming from, the point im trying to make is why overall sale numbers of halo games has decreased while COD sales still remain high. Obviously there are many reasons like COD bring out one game each year, they have a competitive scene. There are many reasons why Halo is no longer as popular as what it was, this ranges from campaign to not being a classic style of halo to marketing, also things like new games coming out like destiny, titanfall and overwatch. The FPS genre is competitive.

I can see that to many mechanics like spartan charge can be a hinders and sprint doesnt really add as much to the game as some people like (From some peoples perspective and this is only from a Persons perspective having a sprint function creates immersion and YES i know thats just immersion and not an addition to gameplay but like i said some people like that im not advocating for it nor against it).

I think Halo can be successful with or without sprint as long as the maps are utilized well for what you are catering for.

PS i do think thrust would work in a classic halo gamtype or at least i would like to see how it would function on those maps.