The sprint discussion thread

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*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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> > This entire discussion is just plain stupid and I don’t see the point of it I can have fun playing halo with or without sprint it’s not a big deal at all in my opinion halo five has the best sprint system having it tied to your shields but that’s just me.
>
> The point is Sprint affects the game. Some people find it good, some people find it bad.
>
> It can very much be a big deal depending on your perspective, and calling it stupid when people have put massive amounts of time and effort explaining their position is really insulting.

well someone is triggered…the sprint discussion is still stupid moving thirty seconds faster than the base movement speed is bad how? like I don’t get how sprint is a bad thing all I do get is only complaints and lame -Yoink- made excuses. Even without sprint a Spartan will still jog to cover if he or she is getting shot at but sprint allows them to do it only slightly faster. Map design is another stupid as hell excuse why should the size of the map dictate how fast you should move? Movement speed should be the last thing people should worry about when playing halo.

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> > This entire discussion is just plain stupid and I don’t see the point of it I can have fun playing halo with or without sprint it’s not a big deal at all in my opinion halo five has the best sprint system having it tied to your shields but that’s just me.
>
> :100: percent agree! People make WAY to big a deal about sprint and act as if it’s some game breaking thing… It’s quite lame. I love Halo with and without it. It’s not a big deal really.

That’s what I’m saying dude…

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Nope, not triggered, you’re just being blatantly oblivious to what sprint does, or just how the game works as a whole.

Someone was nice enough to summarize the whole topic for you.

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> Without rewriting 713 pages worth of logical thought out arguments, here I go.
> 1) Firstly, what are the arguments for sprint? “Immersion” and “speed/fast paced gameplay”. Both of which are actually a matter of perception when talking about games. And 343i’s excuse is because “players expect to be able to sprint”
> A-i) Immersion - Very slow turn based games can be immersive. So it’s never really elaborated on how sprint adds immersion. Great gunplay, music, graphics and many other layers add this this experience far more than sprint does.
> A-ii) Speed/fast paced gameplay. Sprint is not the only way to add more speed to a game. Halo 5 actually increases the normal movement speed as well as adding sprint. And we’ve seen many Halo 5 matches go on longer than your average Halo 2 game. What is sprint adding that further increasing the base movement speed couldn’t add?
> A-iii) Expectations. Who was expecting this?, Are Halo fans who have played without sprint for years expecting this?, are brand new FPS players who have never played a game with sprint expecting this?, or are the players that expect sprint the players that already are heavily involved with other shooters that use the mechanic? Look at all the additions Halo 4 added that were ripped straight from COD, why are we so worried about what players of other shooters expect in the Halo franchise?
> We aren’t against added mechanics to the game, what we want though are mechanics that make sense for the franchise and for the gameplay. Have an objective look at the gameplay and say “yes this is broken, what mechanic can we add/remove/tweak to fix this problem” Sprint is a solution to a problem that didn’t exist, at the very least it is the wrong answer to speeding up the gameplay.
> (and that was just one point)
> 2) Map design. With the increased speed 343i need to make sure that maps both utilise the mechanic, but also don’t allow that mechanic to break the gameplay. If maps were the same size as they were in previous games then players would be bumping in to each other and getting away far too quickly. To combat this they increased the map sizes. We also saw some Halo 4 maps that had long corridors of nothing. It was just a sprint zone to the next combat area. In reality you have far more open areas of nothing and places for you to be a sitting duck to snipers than ever, because you are expected to sprint through these areas.
> 3) Weapons. To account for the faster moving opponents, weapons have increased range, damage, and blast radius. Making several of them far more powerful than their intended role.
> 4) Team work. Instead of covering players while moving you no either have to shoot OR move. You can’t move with/to your team and help fire at the same time. It’s not fluid, it’s a stop and start style of play. A big anti-sprint argument is to be weapon ready and engaging at every possible moment.
> 5) Casual friendly. Notice how Halo 5 is “sweaty”? and is one of the least popular AAA MP FPS titles on Xbox One. That’s because it’s not casual friendly. The rather simple controls of previous Halos made it easier to complete non-gamers and non-fps players to jump in to an FPS and have fun. The over-complicated design of Halo 5 is just not pick up and play at all. If you ever want Halo to bring back those players, then sprint is one of the things that needs to go.
> Sprint has an affect across the entire gameplay. From the maps, the weapons, the players, even shields now. There isn’t a single thing that hasn’t had to be completely redesigned to make sprint work. And we have games like Doom and Unreal that show how non-sprint games can have everything that pro-sprint players claim the mechanic brings to the franchise. We don’t see how the mechanic has “evolved” or “saved” Halo. So we don’t see a reason to keep it.
> (And that’s the best I can do without going full essay and going back through hundreds of arguments to find all the great arguments people have made, but offering a robust response…again).

And something to ask you, why do we need a whole separate button to make yourself go faster than Base Movement Speed, when we could just make Base Movement Speed faster in general?

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> > > > > > > I think Sprint should stay and have a option to turn off and on to use in my own opinion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There’s absolutely no way that would work. Maps have to be designed differently if you have two different speeds, so I have no idea how you could just “turn it off.”
> > > > >
> > > > > There’s always a way this was meant in future Halo’s but still I don’t see what’s the big deal with sprinting I’m mean seriously if this was going to be a problem then 343 should have not put sprinting in the game so StayFrostyMate have a good day.
> > > >
> > > > That’s like saying that Jumping should have an option to turn off and on. Well what happens when you hit a ledge?
> > >
> > > No not really you don’t get the point.
> >
> > Then what is the point?
> >
> > Sprint affects you whether you use it or not. Just because it’s off for you doesn’t mean its off for everyone else.
>
> All I said was that there should been a option to where you can use it or not simple as that but your saying something else that doesn’t even go with I mean.

The point is you put yourself at a disadvantage when not using sprint. Another player will reach power weapons and better positioning faster than someone who doesn’t. If one jumps and the other doesn’t, one is traversing through the map faster while the other has to go around the map rather than cutting through it just cause they refused to jump.

so an on/off button for sprint isn’t an option(and there already is that option to begin with, don’t press the thumb stick down), you’re still a liability when not using it, it doesn’t just resolve the issues it brings with it. It’s why the saying “don’t use sprint then” is worthless.

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> > > This entire discussion is just plain stupid and I don’t see the point of it I can have fun playing halo with or without sprint it’s not a big deal at all in my opinion halo five has the best sprint system having it tied to your shields but that’s just me.
> >
> > :100: percent agree! People make WAY to big a deal about sprint and act as if it’s some game breaking thing… It’s quite lame. I love Halo with and without it. It’s not a big deal really.
>
> That’s what I’m saying dude…

Well, why are you and LethalQ participating in this thread then? Obviously people will have different opinions about what is important and what isn’t. Just because you don’t find something important, or don’t think a mechanic is game breaking, doesn’t mean that everyone must agree with you. When you call the discussion people are having “stupid” or “lame” just because you don’t care about it, you’re belittling something that’s important to them, which is kind of a jerk move.

If you don’t care for this thread and have nothing constructive to contribute to it, then why participate? I don’t care much for playable Elites in multiplayer, but you don’t see me posting in the Elite thread telling people that something they’re obviously passionate about is “stupid” or “lame”. I just, you know, stay away from a topic I have no interest in.

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> > > > > > > > I think Sprint should stay and have a option to turn off and on to use in my own opinion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There’s absolutely no way that would work. Maps have to be designed differently if you have two different speeds, so I have no idea how you could just “turn it off.”
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There’s always a way this was meant in future Halo’s but still I don’t see what’s the big deal with sprinting I’m mean seriously if this was going to be a problem then 343 should have not put sprinting in the game so StayFrostyMate have a good day.
> > > > >
> > > > > That’s like saying that Jumping should have an option to turn off and on. Well what happens when you hit a ledge?
> > > >
> > > > No not really you don’t get the point.
> > >
> > > Then what is the point?
> > >
> > > Sprint affects you whether you use it or not. Just because it’s off for you doesn’t mean its off for everyone else.
> >
> > All I said was that there should been a option to where you can use it or not simple as that but your saying something else that doesn’t even go with I mean.
>
> The point is you put yourself at a disadvantage when not using sprint. Another player will reach power weapons and better positioning faster than someone who doesn’t. If one jumps and the other doesn’t, one is traversing through the map faster while the other has to go around the map rather than cutting through it just cause they refused to jump.
>
> so an on/off button for sprint isn’t an option(and there already is that option to begin with, don’t press the thumb stick down), you’re still a liability when not using it, it doesn’t just resolve the issues it brings with it. It’s why the saying “don’t use sprint then” is worthless.

That part where you said and there already is that option to begin with, don’t press the thumb stick down) yes I already know that this was just my opinion that some people keep telling that it wont changed a thing for the off/on option. How ever I only use Sprint to get to places faster and to get behind cover fast. But I see what your saying.

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> > > > This entire discussion is just plain stupid and I don’t see the point of it I can have fun playing halo with or without sprint it’s not a big deal at all in my opinion halo five has the best sprint system having it tied to your shields but that’s just me.
> > >
> > > :100: percent agree! People make WAY to big a deal about sprint and act as if it’s some game breaking thing… It’s quite lame. I love Halo with and without it. It’s not a big deal really.
> >
> > That’s what I’m saying dude…
>
> Well, why are you and LethalQ participating in this thread then? Obviously people will have different opinions about what is important and what isn’t. Just because you don’t find something important, or don’t think a mechanic is game breaking, doesn’t mean that everyone must agree with you. When you call the discussion people are having “stupid” or “lame” just because you don’t care about it, you’re belittling something that’s important to them, which is kind of a jerk move.
>
> If you don’t care for this thread and have nothing constructive to contribute to it, then why participate? I don’t care much for playable Elites in multiplayer, but you don’t see me posting in the Elite thread telling people that something they’re obviously passionate about is “stupid” or “lame”. I just, you know, stay away from a topic I have no interest in.

Why quote us if you don’t like the way we participate? Hopefully some will see our response and realize that one mechanic doesn’t make or break a game. Every Halo changes things up so you have to learn new tactics. That is what makes Halo, Halo.

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> Why quote us if you don’t like the way we participate?

Perhaps I was hoping that you would learn to be a little less dismissive towards opinions of others. Perhaps because belittling opinions of others is not something we tolerate on the forums. Perhaps I was hoping you’d understand and become better people. You see, it’s not just that I don’t like how you participate, but that the way you did it is detrimental to the quality of discussion in this thread.

Of course, if you’d like to discuss sprint and try to understand why many people consider it to be a problematic mechanic (notice that you don’t have to agree to understand), or maybe you’d like to explain why you think sprint is a good mechanic, then by all means, feel free to do so. But if you have nothing else to say than to tell people their opinions are lame, I strongly recommend you not to participate in this thread.

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> > Why quote us if you don’t like the way we participate?
>
> Perhaps I was hoping that you would learn to be a little less dismissive towards opinions of others. Perhaps because belittling opinions of others is not something we tolerate on the forums. Perhaps I was hoping you’d understand and become better people. You see, it’s not just that I don’t like how you participate, but that the way you did it is detrimental to the quality of discussion in this thread.
>
> Of course, if you’d like to discuss sprint and try to understand why many people consider it to be a problematic mechanic (notice that you don’t have to agree to understand), or maybe you’d like to explain why you think sprint is a good mechanic, then by all means, feel free to do so. But if you have nothing else to say than to tell people their opinions are lame, I strongly recommend you not to participate in this thread.

I don’t see how I belittled any one.

All sprint is is a tactical decision between shooting or getting to a new position on the map quickly… That is it…

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> All sprint is is a tactical decision between shooting or getting to a new position on the map quickly… That is it…

Yeah I like what you said Spartan I use Sprint to get to places faster that’s really the only reason why I use Sprint.

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> All sprint is is a tactical decision between shooting or getting to a new position on the map quickly… That is it…

And if you had read and understood the arguments before then you’d know that is not true. Map design plays a much bigger part in travel times.

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> > > Why quote us if you don’t like the way we participate?
> >
> > Perhaps I was hoping that you would learn to be a little less dismissive towards opinions of others. Perhaps because belittling opinions of others is not something we tolerate on the forums. Perhaps I was hoping you’d understand and become better people. You see, it’s not just that I don’t like how you participate, but that the way you did it is detrimental to the quality of discussion in this thread.
> > Of course, if you’d like to discuss sprint and try to understand why many people consider it to be a problematic mechanic (notice that you don’t have to agree to understand), or maybe you’d like to explain why you think sprint is a good mechanic, then by all means, feel free to do so. But if you have nothing else to say than to tell people their opinions are lame, I strongly recommend you not to participate in this thread.
>
> I don’t see how I belittled any one.

You literally called anyone discussing this mechanic “Lame”. You called them lame for having an opinion, having a preference, and discussing that preference.

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> > > > > > > I think Sprint should stay and have a option to turn off and on to use in my own opinion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There’s absolutely no way that would work. Maps have to be designed differently if you have two different speeds, so I have no idea how you could just “turn it off.”
> > > > >
> > > > > There’s always a way this was meant in future Halo’s but still I don’t see what’s the big deal with sprinting I’m mean seriously if this was going to be a problem then 343 should have not put sprinting in the game so StayFrostyMate have a good day.
> > > >
> > > > That’s like saying that Jumping should have an option to turn off and on. Well what happens when you hit a ledge?
> > >
> > > No not really you don’t get the point.
> >
> > Then what is the point?
> > Sprint affects you whether you use it or not. Just because it’s off for you doesn’t mean its off for everyone else.
>
> All I said was that there should been a option to where you can use it or not simple as that but your saying something else that doesn’t even go with I mean.

This, again, has been discussed. Having sprint as an option does not undo the map and gameplay design choices that have been taken to incorporate that mechanic. It isn’t a weapon or a vehicle that can be removed or replace, it’s a main mechanic of the game.

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>

This has all been detailed, I even made a quick summary on the previous page. It’s not our fault you have failed to read or understand the previous anti-sprint arguments. also, 30 seconds is a long time, and means absolutely nothing without added the context of distance.

Sprinting in HaloThere is also a video that I can’t find just now, but it shows that the travel time for midship from base to pink 2 for Halo 2/3 is the same as Halo 5. Only in Halo 5 you have to sprint to get there in the same amount of time. That is because the map has been elongated, there is no cover between these two points only now it takes longer to travel through. The thing you have to understand is that speed is video games is all an illusion, that is determined by map design and FOV Again this is just something you don’t understand on a game design level and I don’t see why I should sugar coat it for you when you are insulting people here that do understand it.

When Sprint was first added to Halo I was pro it’s inclusion. However after a while I came to agree with those opposed to Sprint. I believe there has been a lot of quality well thought out discussion on this topic. Most however I think happened long before this master thread was even created and not all of it on waypoint, I understand why this thread was created but I do think a lot of the ‘good’ posts can disappear into the ether of a 715page thread. I’ll give it a go to try and remember a few points however.

-With the addition of sprint maps need to be designed with two combat speeds in mind, the result being play spaces are not optimised for either. There can be too much cover for a sprinting player in an area ideal for combat and an area can feel like a no mans land at combat speeds whilst ideal for sprinting. There are also many jumps now that cant be traversed without using sprint which is ultimately limits a players options in combat.

-Maps have to be elongated to accommodate sprint and as such the pace of gameplay has not meaningfully changed with the addition of sprint. And rightly so, travel time from spawning and to objectives for example need to be balanced. The problem is this has many other bleed over effects. It effects the effectiveness of short ranged weapons, it effects line of sights which can if not properly managed make long range weapons a bit OP, it reduces the overlap in compact vertical map designs and effects the combat interaction in these spaces. And I love compact vertical map designs. It can also potentially mean melee and grenades end up being used less creating less dynamic peak and shoot style game play.

-The sandbox must be adjusted for two combat speed. explosive radius must be larger in order to hit sprinters but that makes it easier to hit player who have slowed down to fire their weapon. If Aim assist is not increased sprinters are potentially harder to hit but if aim assist is increased strafing players are easier to hit, it creates a tug of war where mechanics are pulling in different directions. Again it creates a scenario when the sandbox is not optimised for either move speed. Larger lines of sight mean short range weapons requiring range buffs which kind of defeats the object of short ranged weapons.

-Sprinting does not work with longer kill times. Sprinting makes the option of disengaging or running away much more viable particularly when combined with Halo’s already long kill times. Long kill times I think work well for duelling and as well for promoting things like team shot. Halo has however a no consequence health and shield recharge system so the ability to punish bad positioning and actually get kills has to be well balanced with the ability to flee. It can create scenarios in competitive play where team shot, rapid kill combos and instant kill weapons are essential not just an advantage as they should be. It can make a player feel underpowered; as such it creates a demand for shorter kill times. But that comes with more problems. You buff AR/ BR/ Pistol kill times then you got to buff power weapons to retain their desirability. And this potentially jeopardises one of Halo’s biggest strengths. NO BS, the feeling that you could have avoided that death, OP instant kill weapons are a big problem for the learning loop that help a player get better.

-Sprinting as it is currently designed is primarily defensive, you can sprint away, but in order for the attacking player to chase and maintain a line of sight they must sprint them selves and in the process not shoot. it really limits offensive options. All mechanics should be designed on the principle that they should be fun/ engaging to use AND fun/ engaging to counter. I don’t think sprint achieves that at all. I don’t really see any real counter play options. The recharge reset upon sprinting I see a weak attempted to add consequence to sprinting but from experience the second line of sight is broken it is usually over and the fleeing player can then recharge their shields. Grenade knock back, area of denial tools, stun effects, lasting overtime damage effects, grapples, tethers, gravity grenades, shooting with momentum… just a few examples of counter play avenues off the top of my head.

-Sprint increases the number of clean up kills. Duelling players must slow down to fight and have given away their position with there noisy guns making them sitting ducks for players sprinting to joint the fight. It makes loosely connected team formations effectively connected. Limiting a players options to isolate another player in a 1v1 duel. And Halo 1v1 duels are so fun.

-The lack of weapon readiness can create first shot wins scenarios which takes away from another of Halo’s biggest strengths: duelling. The whole Idea that it’s not over till a player is respawning, two men enter the better man leaves.

-Sprinting makes other fast track traversal options redundant or less prevalent, man cannons, mongooses, teleporters, which reduces the variety match to match a unique map sandbox can provide.

-Sprint has to be nerfed to near oblivion to work, when it comes down to it any attempts or suggestions to balance sprint typically just seem to minimise it’s effects. So why not just get rid of it? I mean sprint has been reduced from a 65% speed boost to 30% in Halo 5. It has admittedly helped reduced some of the negative effects of sprint but again why? What are the gameplay benefits of sprint? Honestly I’m yet to hear any compelling reasons to keep it, typically all I hear are various versions of: ‘I like it’, ‘emersion’, ‘I get there faster’, ‘it’s expected’. I do think there are good arguments to keep sprint but I never see them. Maybe they are buried. One I can think of is that in OG Halo BTB, there was a poor synergy between open vehicle combat spaces and no mans lands for foot traffic… I do pop on to this thread time to time to see if any new points come up that might reshape my opinions. Please I do want to hear the other side.

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> When Sprint was first added to Halo I was pro it’s inclusion. However after a while I came to agree with those opposed to Sprint.

If you don’t mind me asking, how did this change of mind come about? Did the arguments against sprint do it mostly by themselves or did your mind change through personal experiences? Has this changed how you feel about playing Halo with sprint, or has sprint just not been a huge factor for your enjoyment one way or the other?

I’m curious because people usually tend to hold their opinions tightly, so I can only imagine that a change of mind like this would only come about either because you never had a really strong opinion to begin with, or through some hard hitting realization(s).

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> > > > > This entire discussion is just plain stupid and I don’t see the point of it I can have fun playing halo with or without sprint it’s not a big deal at all in my opinion halo five has the best sprint system having it tied to your shields but that’s just me.
> > > >
> > > > :100: percent agree! People make WAY to big a deal about sprint and act as if it’s some game breaking thing… It’s quite lame. I love Halo with and without it. It’s not a big deal really.
> > >
> > > That’s what I’m saying dude…
> >
> > Well, why are you and LethalQ participating in this thread then? Obviously people will have different opinions about what is important and what isn’t. Just because you don’t find something important, or don’t think a mechanic is game breaking, doesn’t mean that everyone must agree with you. When you call the discussion people are having “stupid” or “lame” just because you don’t care about it, you’re belittling something that’s important to them, which is kind of a jerk move.
> >
> > If you don’t care for this thread and have nothing constructive to contribute to it, then why participate? I don’t care much for playable Elites in multiplayer, but you don’t see me posting in the Elite thread telling people that something they’re obviously passionate about is “stupid” or “lame”. I just, you know, stay away from a topic I have no interest in.
>
> Why quote us if you don’t like the way we participate? Hopefully some will see our response and realize that one mechanic doesn’t make or break a game. Every Halo changes things up so you have to learn new tactics. That is what makes Halo, Halo.

You seem to think anything ani-sprint is lame and that people are boring the topic of sprint out of proportion. It’s hard for people to not have an issue how you word things (your participation isn’t the issue). It’s just as bad as you “feeling sorry” for those who quit playing H5 or simply dislike it when they don’t need anyone feeling sorry for them, the game itself needed to be better, there’s no blaming people for disliking it and then feeling sorry for them.

One mechanic can indeed break a game, it’s called a domino effect, meaning it starts effecting one thing, but then it moves over to others. Sprint effects movement as the obvious #1 thing, then map designs, then the weapons themselves(they need to compensate for the increased speed of other players, which equates to more magnetism and larger hit boxes) among a few animations like dropping your weapon when in the sprint animation at the expense of weapon readiness. One mechanic can easily break a game if it has that domino effect with it.

Halo can’t be halo if it’s unrecognizable. Halo 1-3 knew how to progress without destroying its identity. Every game changes things, so changing with tactics is not unique nor exclusive to halo(especially sprint), its how and what you change that impacts the game, I’d argue sprint was put in “just cause” with very little thinking from 343, especially when their excuses are immersion and player expectations but they give no gameplay reasonings, the thing that should be priority #1 when adding things to the game. The issue isn’t players can’t change or adapt, cause we have, it’s doesn’t make the mechanic any better, the issue is the mechanic itself, especially when simply upping BMS to sprint speeds does the same things sprint does, but without penalizing you in other others I.E. lowering weapon, or having added magnetism to weapons, changing map designs where bigger maps take longer to traverse, etc etc.

> 2533274923562209;14298:
> One mechanic can indeed break a game, it’s called a domino effect, meaning it starts effecting one thing, but then it moves over to others. Sprint effects movement as the obvious #1 thing, then map designs, then the weapons themselves(they need to compensate for the increased speed of other players, which equates to more magnetism and larger hit boxes) among a few animations like dropping your weapon when in the sprint animation at the expense of weapon readiness. One mechanic can easily break a game if it has that domino effect with it.

I don’t think “game breaking” is a well defined term anyway. I’ve seen it being used to literally mean making some aspect of the game behave in an unintended way (mostly in reference to glitches). When it comes to mechanics, it pretty broadly seems to mean that an aspect of the game changes in a way the person in question doesn’t like. So, I believe what you and LethalQ mean by “game breaking” are two different things. I think you would both need to come to terms about what it means for a mechanic to break a game until you can disagree whether sprint breaks the game or not. Else you’ll just end up arguing against a position the other is not even defending.

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> > > > > This entire discussion is just plain stupid and I don’t see the point of it I can have fun playing halo with or without sprint it’s not a big deal at all in my opinion halo five has the best sprint system having it tied to your shields but that’s just me.
> > > >
> > > > :100: percent agree! People make WAY to big a deal about sprint and act as if it’s some game breaking thing… It’s quite lame. I love Halo with and without it. It’s not a big deal really.
> > >
> > > That’s what I’m saying dude…
> >
> > Well, why are you and LethalQ participating in this thread then? Obviously people will have different opinions about what is important and what isn’t. Just because you don’t find something important, or don’t think a mechanic is game breaking, doesn’t mean that everyone must agree with you. When you call the discussion people are having “stupid” or “lame” just because you don’t care about it, you’re belittling something that’s important to them, which is kind of a jerk move.
> >
> > If you don’t care for this thread and have nothing constructive to contribute to it, then why participate? I don’t care much for playable Elites in multiplayer, but you don’t see me posting in the Elite thread telling people that something they’re obviously passionate about is “stupid” or “lame”. I just, you know, stay away from a topic I have no interest in.
>
> Why quote us if you don’t like the way we participate? Hopefully some will see our response and realize that one mechanic doesn’t make or break a game. Every Halo changes things up so you have to learn new tactics. That is what makes Halo, Halo.

Because that’s not what your comments are really showing. At best, they show that you either don’t understand or care to understand about the topic at hand, while other people researched enough to explain all of the details of the issue. Many of the things you and darksaberjedi2 said were already mentioned as a bad thing by a lot of people.

Even your statement “Every Halo changes things up so you have to learn new tactics.” doesn’t show that Sprint is okay, it just shows that not all change is good change. That’s what happened to Loadouts, they were just “changing things up.”

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> > > > > > This entire discussion is just plain stupid and I don’t see the point of it I can have fun playing halo with or without sprint it’s not a big deal at all in my opinion halo five has the best sprint system having it tied to your shields but that’s just me.
> > > > >
> > > > > :100: percent agree! People make WAY to big a deal about sprint and act as if it’s some game breaking thing… It’s quite lame. I love Halo with and without it. It’s not a big deal really.
> > > >
> > > > That’s what I’m saying dude…
> > >
> > > Well, why are you and LethalQ participating in this thread then? Obviously people will have different opinions about what is important and what isn’t. Just because you don’t find something important, or don’t think a mechanic is game breaking, doesn’t mean that everyone must agree with you. When you call the discussion people are having “stupid” or “lame” just because you don’t care about it, you’re belittling something that’s important to them, which is kind of a jerk move.
> > > If you don’t care for this thread and have nothing constructive to contribute to it, then why participate? I don’t care much for playable Elites in multiplayer, but you don’t see me posting in the Elite thread telling people that something they’re obviously passionate about is “stupid” or “lame”. I just, you know, stay away from a topic I have no interest in.
> >
> > Why quote us if you don’t like the way we participate? Hopefully some will see our response and realize that one mechanic doesn’t make or break a game. Every Halo changes things up so you have to learn new tactics. That is what makes Halo, Halo.
>
> You seem to think anything ani-sprint is lame and that people are boring the topic of sprint out of proportion. It’s hard for people to not have an issue how you word things (your participation isn’t the issue). It’s just as bad as you “feeling sorry” for those who quit playing H5 or simply dislike it when they don’t need anyone feeling sorry for them, the game itself needed to be better, there’s no blaming people for disliking it and then feeling sorry for them.
> One mechanic can indeed break a game, it’s called a domino effect, meaning it starts effecting one thing, but then it moves over to others. Sprint effects movement as the obvious #1 thing, then map designs, then the weapons themselves(they need to compensate for the increased speed of other players, which equates to more magnetism and larger hit boxes) among a few animations like dropping your weapon when in the sprint animation at the expense of weapon readiness. One mechanic can easily break a game if it has that domino effect with it.
> Halo can’t be halo if it’s unrecognizable. Halo 1-3 knew how to progress without destroying its identity. Every game changes things, so changing with tactics is not unique nor exclusive to halo(especially sprint), its how and what you change that impacts the game, I’d argue sprint was put in “just cause” with very little thinking from 343, especially when their excuses are immersion and player expectations but they give no gameplay reasonings, the thing that should be priority #1 when adding things to the game. The issue isn’t players can’t change or adapt, cause we have, it’s doesn’t make the mechanic any better, the issue is the mechanic itself, especially when simply upping BMS to sprint speeds does the same things sprint does, but without penalizing you in other others I.E. lowering weapon, or having added magnetism to weapons, changing map designs where bigger maps take longer to traverse, etc etc.

The “domino effect” is a great description of sprint in Halo, and while some may say it’s not game-breaking, it is unquestionably game-changing.
I feel like the only reason sprint was introduced in Reach was because of how slow Halo 3 was. CE was pretty fast, and Halo 2 was even faster, but for some reason you didn’t move as quickly in H3 as before. Combined with the still high jump height, this made moving feel really clunky and awkward. Even MLG had to bump up the player speed because it was so slow. On top of the awkward movement, the whole sandbox was nerfed to hell. Literally every weapon was worse than before (with the exception of the needler) and it became more of what H4 and H5 fans call a “one-gun game”. Then Reach came along with even worse weapons and even slower movement, albeit with sprint this time, and we all know the rest of the story.
Sprint is too much of a hassle to implement and balance. Even those who are pro-sprint have to admit that much has changed since its first incarnation in Reach. In response to it, all basic movement speeds must be decreased, all map sizes must be increased, all maps must become more open, all players must receive some sort of penalty for sprinting at the wrong time, and like you said, precious time is devoted simply to the animation of you beginning to sprint. But the worst part is that when sprinting, you are completely defenseless (spartan charge can go to hell). The fact that I have to choose between moving or shooting in Halo of all games drives me up a wall. I wouldn’t sprint at all if I could afford not to, but due to the consequences of sprint listed above, obviously I can’t do that.
Why implement sprint in the first place? Why go through so much trouble and change nearly everything about Halo’s gameplay to accommodate one feature to increase the “immersion” factor? Of all the ways to give players a steady speed boost, why does sprint have to be the one that gets implemented? 343 has tried to balance sprint and make it likeable to most players for years and they still can’t do it. The constant forcing of sprint into Halo is like trying to mix oil with water–the two are incompatible. If so many people are opposed to it, then maybe there is a fundamental problem with it that cannot ever be fixed.

Edit: I am completely incorrect in the first paragraph. Please ignore all I said in that paragraph.

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> > When Sprint was first added to Halo I was pro it’s inclusion. However after a while I came to agree with those opposed to Sprint.
>
> If you don’t mind me asking, how did this change of mind come about? Did the arguments against sprint do it mostly by themselves or did your mind change through personal experiences? Has this changed how you feel about playing Halo with sprint, or has sprint just not been a huge factor for your enjoyment one way or the other?
>
> I’m curious because people usually tend to hold their opinions tightly, so I can only imagine that a change of mind like this would only come about either because you never had a really strong opinion to begin with, or through some hard hitting realization(s).

Forging and custom games I think is what did it. Spending a lot of time thinking about how game mechanics interact with each other and with map designs, talking to other forgers, talking to a lot of competitive minded players in playtests. Reading posts on waypoint and Team beyond… Experimenting with some Quake design concepts I think is what finally converted me. I remember playtesting 1v1 no sprint/ no bloom duel settings on a Quake map remake aerowalk in Reach, some of most fun I have ever had in a Halo game.

I have a preference for no Sprint but it really isn’t the be it and end all. Other mechanics have a larger effect on how much I enjoy a game.

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> CE was pretty fast, and Halo 2 was even faster, but for some reason you didn’t move as quickly in H3 as before.

CE, 2 and 3 literally have the same movement speed, to the decimal point. BMS wasn’t changed between games at all. Don’t know about acceleration, tho…