> 2533274901833242;14243:
> > 2533274795123910;14242:
> > > 2533274901833242;14241:
> > > > 2533274825830455;14240:
> > > > > 2533274900668879;14236:
> > > > > …no, remove Sprint but increase the base movement speed marginally, back up to Halo 2 or so.
> > > >
> > > > I hate to repeat myself constantly, but the base movement speed in Halo 5 is already 15% faster than in Halo 2. The base movement speed is the least of Halo 5’s issues (unless one thinks it’s too fast).
> > >
> > > Too bad the maps are so stretched out that you still FEEL slow when you aren’t sprinting. A small bump in base speed from CE or H2 (~10%) with smaller maps would do wonders. You could even just up the field of view and the game would feel faster without actually having to change the speed at which players move.
> >
> > Speed comparison
>
> Sooo a small speed bump of any of the original trilogy or reach? My point is that smaller maps with a slight increase in movement speed would be more than enough to make people feel faster.
> 2533274825830455;14244:
> > 2533274901833242;14243:
> > > 2533274795123910;14242:
> > > > 2533274901833242;14241:
> > > > > 2533274825830455;14240:
> > > > > > 2533274900668879;14236:
> > > > > > …no, remove Sprint but increase the base movement speed marginally, back up to Halo 2 or so.
> > > > >
> > > > > I hate to repeat myself constantly, but the base movement speed in Halo 5 is already 15% faster than in Halo 2. The base movement speed is the least of Halo 5’s issues (unless one thinks it’s too fast).
> > > >
> > > > Too bad the maps are so stretched out that you still FEEL slow when you aren’t sprinting. A small bump in base speed from CE or H2 (~10%) with smaller maps would do wonders. You could even just up the field of view and the game would feel faster without actually having to change the speed at which players move.
> > >
> > > Speed comparison
> >
> > Sooo a small speed bump of any of the original trilogy or reach? My point is that smaller maps with a slight increase in movement speed would be more than enough to make people feel faster.
>
> Smaller relative to what?
Small relative to the maps in Halo 5. Basically what I’m imagining here is maps in CE or halo 2 exactly as they were but played with a 10% speed boost.
> 2533274825830455;14240:
> > 2533274900668879;14236:
> > …no, remove Sprint but increase the base movement speed marginally, back up to Halo 2 or so.
>
> I hate to repeat myself constantly, but the base movement speed in Halo 5 is already 15% faster than in Halo 2. The base movement speed is the least of Halo 5’s issues (unless one thinks it’s too fast).
It is?
It definitely doesn’t feel that way, but I suppose that’s due to the map design then.
My point is that a bump in player speed (within reason) would be preferable to Sprint (Halo 5 w/out Sprint > Halo 5 with Sprint imo), if the goal was to ‘increase the pace of the game’.
The fact that Halo 5 has increased the base movement speed in addition to keeping Sprint goes back to my complaint about vehicles feeling even more useless, which I’m not a fan of.
> 2533274901833242;14245:
> > 2533274825830455;14244:
> > > 2533274901833242;14243:
> > > > 2533274795123910;14242:
> > > > > 2533274901833242;14241:
> > > > > > 2533274825830455;14240:
> > > > > > > 2533274900668879;14236:
> > > > > > > …no, remove Sprint but increase the base movement speed marginally, back up to Halo 2 or so.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hate to repeat myself constantly, but the base movement speed in Halo 5 is already 15% faster than in Halo 2. The base movement speed is the least of Halo 5’s issues (unless one thinks it’s too fast).
> > > > >
> > > > > Too bad the maps are so stretched out that you still FEEL slow when you aren’t sprinting. A small bump in base speed from CE or H2 (~10%) with smaller maps would do wonders. You could even just up the field of view and the game would feel faster without actually having to change the speed at which players move.
> > > >
> > > > Speed comparison
> > >
> > > Sooo a small speed bump of any of the original trilogy or reach? My point is that smaller maps with a slight increase in movement speed would be more than enough to make people feel faster.
> >
> > Smaller relative to what?
>
> Small relative to the maps in Halo 5. Basically what I’m imagining here is maps in CE or halo 2 exactly as they were but played with a 10% speed boost.
I have a problem with that point of view. Obviously, if you’re not going to have sprint, then maps will have to be smaller than in Halo 5 because the Halo 5 maps are under the assumption that players are going to be running at the speed sprint provides. But I don’t agree that maps from the original trilogy with a 10% speed boost would be the ideal. They might work. Halo 3 MLG was played with 110% speed, after all. But map size shouldn’t really be something you arbitrarily dictate on the basis that you want players to feel faster. The size of a map should be determined by questions such as: what should the average time between encounters be? How long should it take for a player to get from spawn to combat? If these times are too short, then gameplay will be too chaotic, or deahs won’t be punished enough. There are more important objectives that determine map size than how fast players are going to feel.
To be honest, I don’t believe movement speed is that relevant by itself. It’s ultimately just part of a bigger system where everything should be scaled to work together anyway. That’s not to say you can’t make impactful decisions with movement speed. Of course you can always make players run through huge halls at blazing speeds if you’re into that sort of thing. But that mostly changes things because no one will be able to hit a damn thing. When it comes to changes in the order of 10%, they don’t have much of an impact. If you want to make players feel fast, I think the absolute number one thing is field of view. After that comes all the other visual effects and sounds. Only after these methods have been exhausted and the experience isn’t satisfactory should one consider messing with things that impact gameplay.
> 2533274900668879;14246:
> > 2533274825830455;14240:
> > > 2533274900668879;14236:
> > > …no, remove Sprint but increase the base movement speed marginally, back up to Halo 2 or so.
> >
> > I hate to repeat myself constantly, but the base movement speed in Halo 5 is already 15% faster than in Halo 2. The base movement speed is the least of Halo 5’s issues (unless one thinks it’s too fast).
>
> It is?
> It definitely doesn’t feel that way, but I suppose that’s due to the map design then.
> My point is that a bump in player speed (within reason) would be preferable to Sprint (Halo 5 w/out Sprint > Halo 5 with Sprint imo), if the goal was to ‘increase the pace of the game’.
> The fact that Halo 5 has increased the base movement speed in addition to keeping Sprint goes back to my complaint about vehicles feeling even more useless, which I’m not a fan of.
It is due to map design. After all, the maps have been designed with the understanding that players will be sprinting, which is 30% faster than the base movement speed.
> 2533274825830455;14247:
> > 2533274901833242;14245:
> > > 2533274825830455;14244:
> > > > 2533274901833242;14243:
> > > > > 2533274795123910;14242:
> > > > > > 2533274901833242;14241:
> > > > > > > 2533274825830455;14240:
> > > > > > > > 2533274900668879;14236:
> > > > > > > > …no, remove Sprint but increase the base movement speed marginally, back up to Halo 2 or so.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I hate to repeat myself constantly, but the base movement speed in Halo 5 is already 15% faster than in Halo 2. The base movement speed is the least of Halo 5’s issues (unless one thinks it’s too fast).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Too bad the maps are so stretched out that you still FEEL slow when you aren’t sprinting. A small bump in base speed from CE or H2 (~10%) with smaller maps would do wonders. You could even just up the field of view and the game would feel faster without actually having to change the speed at which players move.
> > > > >
> > > > > Speed comparison
> > > >
> > > > Sooo a small speed bump of any of the original trilogy or reach? My point is that smaller maps with a slight increase in movement speed would be more than enough to make people feel faster.
> > >
> > > Smaller relative to what?
> >
> > Small relative to the maps in Halo 5. Basically what I’m imagining here is maps in CE or halo 2 exactly as they were but played with a 10% speed boost.
>
> I have a problem with that point of view. Obviously, if you’re not going to have sprint, then maps will have to be smaller than in Halo 5 because the Halo 5 maps are under the assumption that players are going to be running at the speed sprint provides. But I don’t agree that maps from the original trilogy with a 10% speed boost would be the ideal. They might work. Halo 3 MLG was played with 110% speed, after all. But map size shouldn’t really be something you arbitrarily dictate on the basis that you want players to feel faster. The size of a map should be determined by questions such as: what should the average time between encounters be? How long should it take for a player to get from spawn to combat? If these times are too short, then gameplay will be too chaotic, or deahs won’t be punished enough. There are more important objectives that determine map size than how fast players are going to feel.
>
> To be honest, I don’t believe movement speed is that relevant by itself. It’s ultimately just part of a bigger system where everything should be scaled to work together anyway. That’s not to say you can’t make impactful decisions with movement speed. Of course you can always make players run through huge halls at blazing speeds if you’re into that sort of thing. But that mostly changes things because no one will be able to hit a damn thing. When it comes to changes in the order of 10%, they don’t have much of an impact. If you want to make players feel fast, I think the absolute number one thing is field of view. After that comes all the other visual effects and sounds. Only after these methods have been exhausted and the experience isn’t satisfactory should one consider messing with things that impact gameplay.
I completely agree with everything you said. I’ve made the same argument myself about things like time between encounters being important to judge the pace of the game and I think map design is a much more important factor than player speed in that regard. I personally don’t think that CE and H2 played slow. H3 felt slow but that was mostly because it had a small field of view. I think a small increase in speed around 10% wouldn’t effect maps very much (Halo 3 did it and maps worked just fine) but would help to please people who complain that Halo is slow while keeping fans of classic Halo happy. An increase in field of view would also do wonders and it would be great if the game let you adjust it yourself. I also don’t think that having player models move a bit faster so they are harder to hit would be a bad thing. Let’s be honest. The shooting aspect of Halo has never been all that difficult. At least not compared to a lot of other games. I’m no MLG pro but I’d rather miss a lot of shots and feel like I actually accomplished something when I get a perfect kill than have the game practically aim for me.
> 2533274825830455;14248:
> > 2533274900668879;14246:
> > > 2533274825830455;14240:
> > > > 2533274900668879;14236:
> > > > …no, remove Sprint but increase the base movement speed marginally, back up to Halo 2 or so.
> > >
> > > I hate to repeat myself constantly, but the base movement speed in Halo 5 is already 15% faster than in Halo 2. The base movement speed is the least of Halo 5’s issues (unless one thinks it’s too fast).
> >
> > It is?
> > It definitely doesn’t feel that way, but I suppose that’s due to the map design then.
> > My point is that a bump in player speed (within reason) would be preferable to Sprint (Halo 5 w/out Sprint > Halo 5 with Sprint imo), if the goal was to ‘increase the pace of the game’.
> > The fact that Halo 5 has increased the base movement speed in addition to keeping Sprint goes back to my complaint about vehicles feeling even more useless, which I’m not a fan of.
>
> It is due to map design. After all, the maps have been designed with the understanding that players will be sprinting, which is 30% faster than the base movement speed.
Really? Haven’t really played much Halo 5 so can’t really judge and not tested it myself. That is however quite a lot less than Halo4, Can’t remember the exact number but know it was over 50% in that game, might have even been 60%. Faster Base movement, slower Sprint, slower sprint acceleration. Seems like 343 did actually listen somewhat to the feedback. Though combining Sprint with thrusters does somewhat negate some of the balancing done to sprint.
Halo Reach in Particular played great at 120% movement speed, no sprint. But I did always have concerns that the improvements such as better staffing would be lost if aim assist and strafe acceleration were altered to make it more accessible for mainstream play to accommodate the increased speed.
> 2533274797849057;14250:
> That is however quite a lot less than Halo4, Can’t remember the exact number but know it was over 50% in that game, might have even been 60%.
> 2533274825830455;14248:
> > 2533274900668879;14246:
> > > 2533274825830455;14240:
> > > > 2533274900668879;14236:
> > > > …no, remove Sprint but increase the base movement speed marginally, back up to Halo 2 or so.
> > >
> > > I hate to repeat myself constantly, but the base movement speed in Halo 5 is already 15% faster than in Halo 2. The base movement speed is the least of Halo 5’s issues (unless one thinks it’s too fast).
> >
> > It is?
> > It definitely doesn’t feel that way, but I suppose that’s due to the map design then.
> > My point is that a bump in player speed (within reason) would be preferable to Sprint (Halo 5 w/out Sprint > Halo 5 with Sprint imo), if the goal was to ‘increase the pace of the game’.
> > The fact that Halo 5 has increased the base movement speed in addition to keeping Sprint goes back to my complaint about vehicles feeling even more useless, which I’m not a fan of.
>
> It is due to map design. After all, the maps have been designed with the understanding that players will be sprinting, which is 30% faster than the base movement speed.
Exactly, and Halo can be played without sprint, with big or small maps. Look at Guardian and Blood Gulch.
> 2535429632412730;14253:
> It’s crazy to think how big this thread got without 343 jumping in at all.
>
> I really miss Bungie.
It’s crazy to think this thread just passed one year old and it’s 714 pages and yea 343 still just doesn’t comment.
That said Bungie is doing their own share of shady stuff with Destiny. Idk I just want someone who’s big on classic halo in charge instead of a bunch of people who seem to think sprint is the future.
> 2533274797849057;14250:
> > 2533274825830455;14248:
> > > 2533274900668879;14246:
> > > > 2533274825830455;14240:
> > > > > 2533274900668879;14236:
> > > > > …no, remove Sprint but increase the base movement speed marginally, back up to Halo 2 or so.
> > > >
> > > > I hate to repeat myself constantly, but the base movement speed in Halo 5 is already 15% faster than in Halo 2. The base movement speed is the least of Halo 5’s issues (unless one thinks it’s too fast).
> > >
> > > It is?
> > > It definitely doesn’t feel that way, but I suppose that’s due to the map design then.
> > > My point is that a bump in player speed (within reason) would be preferable to Sprint (Halo 5 w/out Sprint > Halo 5 with Sprint imo), if the goal was to ‘increase the pace of the game’.
> > > The fact that Halo 5 has increased the base movement speed in addition to keeping Sprint goes back to my complaint about vehicles feeling even more useless, which I’m not a fan of.
> >
> > It is due to map design. After all, the maps have been designed with the understanding that players will be sprinting, which is 30% faster than the base movement speed.
>
> Really? Haven’t really played much Halo 5 so can’t really judge and not tested it myself. That is however quite a lot less than Halo4, Can’t remember the exact number but know it was over 50% in that game, might have even been 60%. Faster Base movement, slower Sprint, slower sprint acceleration. Seems like 343 did actually listen somewhat to the feedback. Though combining Sprint with thrusters does somewhat negate some of the balancing done to sprint.
>
> Halo Reach in Particular played great at 120% movement speed, no sprint. But I did always have concerns that the improvements such as better staffing would be lost if aim assist and strafe acceleration were altered to make it more accessible for mainstream play to accommodate the increased speed.
Halo 4 as well played much better once the DMR wasn’t a crutch cannon that beat literally everything and they bumped up base movement speed there as well.
> 2533274831961512;14254:
> It’s crazy to think this thread just passed one year old and it’s 714 pages and yea 343 still just doesn’t comment.
What would anyone gain from it if they did? Let’s be realistic, the response wouldn’t be “Yes, you’re right. We’re removing sprint in Halo 6”, so that’s out of the question. Josh Holmes has already went into detail on the reasoning behind sprint on Team Beyond, so we have nothing new to expect in that regard. We obviously know that they’re aware of the issue. So, what is in it for us? Why does it matter whether we have a response or not when that response would not add anything meaningful to the discussion?
I’ve never really understood this idea that the post count of a thread is somehow a metric of how much it needs a direct response from the developer. It’s essentially just begging for pointless lip service (instead of, you know, just letting the developers comment on topics where they actually have something meaningful to add, at their own will).
> 2533274825830455;14255:
> > 2533274831961512;14254:
> > It’s crazy to think this thread just passed one year old and it’s 714 pages and yea 343 still just doesn’t comment.
>
> What would anyone gain from it if they did? Let’s be realistic, the response wouldn’t be “Yes, you’re right. We’re removing sprint in Halo 6”, so that’s out of the question. Josh Holmes has already went into detail on the reasoning behind sprint on Team Beyond, so we have nothing new to expect in that regard. We obviously know that they’re aware of the issue. So, what is in it for us? Why does it matter whether we have a response or not when that response would not add anything meaningful to the discussion?
>
> I’ve never really understood this idea that the post count of a thread is somehow a metric of how much it needs a direct response from the developer. It’s essentially just begging for pointless lip service (instead of, you know, just letting the developers comment on topics where they actually have something meaningful to add, at their own will).
Josh Holmes and Chris Haluke have also left 343i. New senior staff could mean a new direction for the games.
I also think their leaving after the ‘failure’ of Halo 5 is probably not a coincidence.
> 2547348539238747;14256:
> > 2533274825830455;14255:
> > > 2533274831961512;14254:
> > > It’s crazy to think this thread just passed one year old and it’s 714 pages and yea 343 still just doesn’t comment.
> >
> > What would anyone gain from it if they did? Let’s be realistic, the response wouldn’t be “Yes, you’re right. We’re removing sprint in Halo 6”, so that’s out of the question. Josh Holmes has already went into detail on the reasoning behind sprint on Team Beyond, so we have nothing new to expect in that regard. We obviously know that they’re aware of the issue. So, what is in it for us? Why does it matter whether we have a response or not when that response would not add anything meaningful to the discussion?
> >
> > I’ve never really understood this idea that the post count of a thread is somehow a metric of how much it needs a direct response from the developer. It’s essentially just begging for pointless lip service (instead of, you know, just letting the developers comment on topics where they actually have something meaningful to add, at their own will).
>
> Josh Holmes and Chris Haluke have also left 343i. New senior staff could mean a new direction for the games.
>
> I also think their leaving after the ‘failure’ of Halo 5 is probably not a coincidence.
I guess it could. Still, I don’t think popping into some forum thread would be a good way to communicate that to the community. Addressing fan feedback by directly responding to individual forum posts is not very useful for the community. Writing blog posts that the community can then ask further questions about allows you to go to greater depth and has greater reach. Pretty much what Menke has been doing with the matchmaking feedback updates is how you want to communicate with a large community. But even in this case, you should do it because you have something you want to share with the community, not because there’s some pressure from the community to do it.
That’s why I put no value on whether 343i addresses this thread directly or not. If they have something meaningful to say about sprint, it’s better done elsewhere. If there is some designer out there who is just dying to discuss sprint, then that’s great. But if they don’t feel like discussing sprint, then I think that’s completely fine, and they have no obligation to do so.
It’s not that I’d want them to chime into the discussion. I don’t really care one way or another. As you already said, they made their design philosophy very clear in the Beyond forurms, and it’s going completely contrary to what I deem the best approach to building a game. I don’t think either of us would convince the other, so a discussion would be pointless.
The only thing that baffles me is why this was posted on Beyond (or Gaf, or anywhere else) in the first place. Instead of, you know, here, on the official Halo forums. The excuse is usually “toxic community”, but why does it matter? They didn’t exactly engage in conversation on the other forums either. Making an extended OP and pinning it to the top doesn’t require them to wade through the responses. Neither does writing an article in a community update. It would at least show they give a damn about their own forums and fanbase.
EDIT: To be fair, there are some employees who occasionally drop into these forums, and I appreciate them for that. It just seems that other forums are prioritized, especially by the (former) higher-ups.
> 2533274825830455;14255:
> > 2533274831961512;14254:
> > It’s crazy to think this thread just passed one year old and it’s 714 pages and yea 343 still just doesn’t comment.
>
> What would anyone gain from it if they did? Let’s be realistic, the response wouldn’t be “Yes, you’re right. We’re removing sprint in Halo 6”, so that’s out of the question. Josh Holmes has already went into detail on the reasoning behind sprint on Team Beyond, so we have nothing new to expect in that regard. We obviously know that they’re aware of the issue. So, what is in it for us? Why does it matter whether we have a response or not when that response would not add anything meaningful to the discussion?
>
> I’ve never really understood this idea that the post count of a thread is somehow a metric of how much it needs a direct response from the developer. It’s essentially just begging for pointless lip service (instead of, you know, just letting the developers comment on topics where they actually have something meaningful to add, at their own will).
I’m not begging because anytime 343 does comment you’re right, it’s 100% lip service and checking a box. It’s just sad because the only time I’ve seen any employee of 343 post recently is the immediate fallout of ATN for Halo Wars 2 and everyone complaining about that and Grim just got his snark on rather than help the situation. Similarly, was when 343 first put out the opt in feedback system that many new fans were aware of since many old fans had since moved on/stopped following the updates and they based keeping sprint off of that when any other poll was “biased.” Josh Holmes was on that one and I think I saw Frankie 2 or 3 times?
In an age where it looks like Halo and its developers copy a bunch if things from other devs the one thing they aren’t copying is decent communication with the fanbase which is one of the things they should copy.
To the other point though. While it doesn’t need acknowledgement it is generally pretty frustrating how many people wanted playable elites back and that was a huge thread and 343 just ignored it. Idk I’m just so disillusioned with this company after being patient for years. It seems anything they do anymore just pisses me off.
I’d actually rather 343 not add to the discussion. All that would happen is either 1) They say that they plan to keep sprint, which would sort of ruin all of this, 2) They tell us they’re removing it, which would make us happy, only to be disappointed when they go back on it, or 3) They give us a non-answer answer that means absolutely nothing. While I do feel like bungie would’ve cared more and probably responded, I also feel like bungie wouldn’t have done this to the game, even after reach.
> 2533274968894951;14262:
> > 2535440693312185;14261:
> > Why do people think sprint needs to go?
>
> Yeah, why? Maybe there are some hidden clues in the 713 pages full of substantiated anti-sprint arguments…
Unfortunately I have not the time nor desire to read through those. Best arguments I’ve seen have basically been “old Halos didn’t have sprint and they were better”